₦airaland Forum

adeniyi65:
Abandoning those verses that clearly support slavery to suit their ideology. Especially the one that teaches how you can multiply your slaves 4 "If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free. wow, more slaves more power to the master.

cc Jaephonix

Labour law is meant to protect both the employee and the employer. Neither should come out of a contract feeling cheated.
As a bondservant or eved as I already explained earlier, u go into servitude to pay off your debt and get back on your feet as quick as possible.

While doing so, your employer is expected to take full responsibility of your care - free food, free accommodation, free clothing and giving u stipends on top.
Wisdom should dictate a bondservant in such state shouldn't be thinking of marriage or having a family except he has a long term plan of becoming a permanent member of the master's household.
If he doesn't see himself in the household for life, why would he want to start a family? who will take care of his family? Who will carry the responsibility of the bondservant's family? The employer? so what will he get in return for the extra unplanned burden.

servitude in ancient Israel is just 6 years, the bondservant should work hard, pay off his debt and stop thinking about sex.

Most ibo men enter apprenticeship for 10-15 years with their masters they don't get married during those years otherwise they leave.
SOME NURSING SCHOOLS IN NIGERIA DO NOT ALLOW THEIR STUDENT TO BECOME PREGNANT DURING THEIR TRANING WHICH IS 3 YEARS, If u do, u will be expelled. Most trainers also have strict laws that prohibits female apprentice getting pregnant during their years of apprentice.
Jacob worked for 14 good years for Laban before he's allowed to have his desired wife.
So I dont understand how a bondservant who has no plan to live his life in such state would go and impregnant a woman knowing the consequence of such action.
This whole western-centric concept of human rights and laws doesn't apply everywhere.

God already stipulate that if the bondservant had a family before becoming a bondservant, they are not to be enslaved. Someone who doesnt have a wife b4 he was enslaved shouldn't be think of one. Instead , he should think of how to become independent at the end of his 7 years, then he will free to do whatever he desires including getting married and having children.
It's just common sense

Exodus 21
2 “If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. 3 If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him.

AntiChristian:
The Qur'an is not a story book!

But Muhammed copied another beautiful Christian legendary story inside the Koran- the story of the 7 sleepers.
The story of the 7 Christians and their dog who slept in the cave for more than 300 years and then woke up feeling fresh and pumpy found its way into the koran so how come the story of the beheaded head didnt enter?

AntiChristian:
Where did he copy it? You said it's not in the Qur'an up there and here you're saying another thing!

Pele o!

sorry, mean to say It's a beautiful story, how come muhammed didnt copy it inside the koran.

KnownUnknown:
Lol, he said ‘calm down” as if the comment was a display of emotion and not detached indifference to his nonsense.

cc adeniyi65
Jaephonix
Lucifyre
So final rebuttal to the claim that bible promotes slavery.

The Hebrew word used for slave in the bible is the same as for servant- eved. The meaning of the word eved range from voluntary servitude, to working off a debt (indentured servitude) or being in bondage (slavery).

The original bible authors made no distinction when using the word eved for different scenario. In the Hebrew culture, so long as U serving a man without any wage in return, U are eved. Simple.
The context of your service or the circumstances surrounding your service is inconsequential.
U are eved so far as you earn no wage rendering a service. That's what make eved different from a hired worker.

If we are to apply the ancient use of eved to our modern time, the right word to use would be bondservant- a person bound to serve without wages.

In ancient times bond servant/eved could rise to very high status depending on how he's favoured in the eyes of his masters.
People like Eliezer of Damascus were actually bondservants but quickly rose in rank to hold important position in their masters household including being an heir or finding a wife for the master's son.
That's shows the loose application of the word eved/bondservants in ancient Israel.

When God instituted the labour laws, the scenario of modern day which is brutal and oppressive slavery was never in the picture.

The American plantation slavery that stems from the transatlantic slave trade is called chatel slavery and it's rightly condemned in the bible. That wasn't the kind of slavery being referred to in the TORAH.

The laws given in the Torah was to regulate a system that consist of two kind of workers- those that are earn wages and those that don't.
It has nothing to do with chatel slavery.

Some people due to poverty, lack of skills or bad debt were not able to earn sufficient wages to take care of themselves. These people would voluntarily become bondservants- eved in exchange for becoming a member of his master's household.

God didn't want this kind of people to be maltreated or abused in anyway and that's why he established the labour laws seen in the law of Moses.

Kobojunkie:
I absolutely have no problems whatsoever with Jesus Christ of Israel referring to Israelites as sheep and non-Israelites as dogs though. 🤔

so what then is the issue. U have been attacking christians here that Jesus called them dogs.
u making sound as if the word is used as a slur.
Do u even know even know how the word 'dog' is used in the bible.

Kobojunkie:
In Matthew 15,..., Jesus Christ affirmed the claim that those who are outside of the promise God made to David are dogs. Pigs are those who are not poor - Matthew 19,.... No interpretation magic is necessary here. Simply deductive reasoning!

But in that same passage where Jesus called gentiles dog, he also called Israelites sheep.
So why don't U have a problem with Jesus calling people sheep but seems to have big issue withe dog name.

AntiChristian:
Even John the Baptist was beheaded as a birthday gift! He no fit carry the head!

Christians are just too gullible with anything miracle inclined!

Why is this story not in the koran.

It's a beautiful story, how come Muhammed didn't copy it inside the koran.

honesttalk21:
You are however circumcised and or was circumcised by those who did that for/on you which implies conviction of the Abrahamic covenant.

Perhaps you have a different reason for your circumcision

First Mr African Muslim know your history.
Circumcision existed in Africa b4 any Abrahamic religion made contact with the continent.
Our ancestors performed circumcision rituals as pagans. There's nothing divine about circumcision. People had been performing circumcision even b4 Abraham. Ancient Egyptians and Polynesians practiced circumcision.
A practice such common on earth cannot be a divine covenant from God.

2. When God established the covenant to Abraham initially, there was no mention of circumcision.
Abraham revived the promise by FAITH- CIRCUMCISION OF THE HEART.
Circumcision of the flesh came 15 yrs later as an addendum to an already established covenant.

Pls read Genesis 15 for insight. Thanks.

honesttalk21:
In the wilderness where the angel of God appears to Hagar and delivers a powerful message. The angel comforts Hagar, telling her not to fear and promising that Ishmael will also become the father of a great nation. This message is a reassurance to Hagar that despite their difficult circumstances, God has not abandoned them and that Ishmael has a special role in God's plan.The covenant between God and Abraham is extended to Ishmael through this message, demonstrating the inclusivity and compassion of God's love. Ishmael is not forgotten or forsaken, but rather, he is an integral part of the divine plan for humanity.

That's your opinion. The bible made it clear God's covenant is thru Isaac and not Ismail. God himself thru his word disqualified Ishmael.

God repeated the same covenant to Isaac and Jacob....exact covenant word for word to emphasise generational lineage of the covenant.

That's why YHW is called God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Ishmael is never mentioned.

Since U brought up Hagar's encounter with the Angel of the Lord. Did U notice Hagar called the angel God?
Hagar said she saw God a d called him El roi- one of the names of God.

mrvitalis:
Yes you can't use infrastructure to improve an economy no

You use infrastructure to sustain growth

Osun tried it failed
Ebonyi tried it failed
Akwa ibom tried it failed
Kaduna tried it failed
Kano same
Ogun same


When would u guys learn

What drives economic growth is availability of credit

My problem with u Obi supporters is u are the same with Tinubu supporters. double mouth people.
I cant believe someone is still supporting the idea of borrowing to run the economy.
The borrowed money is for what exactly? revive Ajaokuta, improve power or build another refinery?
To imagine Obi even said he will use the borrowed money to create an artificial value of the naira.
How will u sustain the interest payment. Nigerian budget is already crumbling due to interest from previous loan repayment made worse by the devaluation.
Who will borrow Nigeria billions of dollars without a pragmatic repayment plan.

Seriously, Obi supporters disappointed me on this one. Call out Obi if he's talking nonsense, he's not infallible.
Something Tinubu supporters should have done long age by telling him not to run for Presidency in the first place.

Kemetian:
Your are an animal. And a pea brain.

Armed robbers, kidnappers, and treasury looters regularly visit pastors daily for blessings regarding their nefarious activities.

The pastors themselves are often child sexual abusers and greedy criminals who loot the tithes they are paid by gullible idiots like you, to live billionaire lifestyles and buy private jets, while their congregations can barely afford to eat.

Disgusting, satanic, greedy people claiming to be holy.

Guy he's right and U know it.
A fake pastor leading a gullible sheep is far better than an evil traditional worshippers who use humans for ritual.
If U are happy to embrace traditional religion go for it. But just know there's more darkness and diabolism to it than U can imagine. It's not black and white.

At least Christianity is clear. It's common sense to know pastors who follow the bible and those who follow their desire.

I'm a Christian yet I've argued against tithe as mandatory for salvation on this forum for years as far back as 2012. It's now Nigerian Christians are beginning to wake up including Pastors to the reality of tithe.

Christianity is the truth. U can either embrace it or leave it.
Unlike traditional religion where truth is obscured and relative.

Lonestar124:
This men are living on poor members sweat

The leaders of the church are no longer sharing things in common among the members in the church..

This is not what the apostle of Jesus Christ instruct us...

In the body of Christ, Nobody should be greater in material things, especially the ones gather in the house of God.

Many things has spoiled!!!!

He's not living on anybody's sweat. It's YouTube that's paying him.

CoronaVirusPro:
London will humble you.

You will be forced to realize that, it is just a Lekki phase 3 built in Europe.

U never go Paris.
The truth is most major cities in the west are now heavily segregated. The wealthy areas are nice looking but those places filled with immigrants or 3rd worlders isn't different from oshodi.

Mom007:
I bet using that slur made her feel less black and less Nigerian but she forgets that to the white man, regardless of how long you have lived in his country and what level you attain socially, politically, educationally or otherwise, as long as you are not the same skin color as them, you will always be an ass wiping immigrant. Even the barely literate drug addicts and drunks among them who are jobless and live off begging and benefits will condescend to you so just face your front, do your job and don't think you have arrived and start taking jabs at your own people just because.

Calm down her husband is white.
If she gets her act right, she has a good shot becoming PM of UK.

This is why western govt and their agencies are losing credibility globally. Nobody trust them anymore not even thier citizens.

The new President of El Salvador has ridden his country of crimes and gangsterism. He wants the street of his country to be safe.
If El Salvador is safe, the citizens will stay home and stop taking dangerous journey to enter USA illegally.
There are some places where U need to the tough on crime, the same brush of civility can't be applied everywhere.

And western country better be tough on crime especially with massive waves of 3rd worlders into their country. Streets of London and other cities is already becoming a joke with constant phone snatching and burglary being a daily occurrence.

jaephoenix:
Flogging is a feature in slavery. Again I don't know why its brought up

Flogging is a feature in most master-surbodinate relationship.
Teachers flog students.
Senior officers in military flog the junior ones.
Apprentice are regularly flogged by the boss as part of the training.

Pls don't tell me above has anything to do with slavery.

adeniyi65:
SIRTee15




That Exodus21 is interesting. It's the chapter that gives power to slave owners on most barbaric act in slavery, which says slave masters can beat the h*ll out of their slaves as long as they dont die because they (slaves) are their properties. What is more gruesome than that. If you have refused to be logical, will you be happy if me and you are to go back into those days and I have your children as my slaves, will you be happy if I beat sh_i_t out of them because God allowed me to do so as long as I don't kill them for you? Don't be primitive in the name of religion bro.

Moreover exodus 21.26 talks about the penalty for inflicting permanent injury on a slave.

If a slave suffers permanent injury due to excessive beating or any physical abuse, the slave must go free.
Even if it's a minor thing like knocking off one of his tooth, the slave MUST BE RELEASED AND BE FREE- HE SHOULD NO LONGER BE A SLAVE.
That's the compensation for the victim.

So as StillDtruth already emphasized, God instituted labour laws to ensure abuse of slaves is heavily discouraged.

U can't beat a slave to death neither can U beat him in a manner to leave a permanent injury.

Exodus 21
26 “An owner who hits a male or female slave in the eye and destroys it must let the slave go free to compensate for the eye. 27 And an owner who knocks out the tooth of a male or female slave must let the slave go free to compensate for the tooth.

Moreover, if U read the book of Exodus, Leviticus and Deuteronomy without prejudice, U will notice the labour laws instituted by God made it very difficult for people to own slaves for life except if the slave choose to.

Lands bought must be returned back to the original owner in the year of jubilee making excessive acquisition of land and increasing demand for free labour impractical.

There are Sabbath years for lands where U don't do anything on the land, what then would U need slaves for?

Slaves have the right of redemption, they should be released by the 7th year of slavery or the year of jubilee. Relatives can also buy them out of their status at anytime.

Owners must treat slaves like they are hired workers. The only difference is that they are not paid any wages. That means slaves must not be treated like slaves as we understand it today.

Owners must also compensate freed slaves with few
possessions when they leave. Freed slaves must not leave their master's household empty handed.

Foreign slaves who turn to YHWH and embrace the covenant God established with Israel automatically gets treated with above privileges because the God commanded strangers dwelling amongst Israelites should be treated fairly according to the mosaic law.

If U are sincere, U will admit all these labour laws instituted by God makes it uneconomical to keep slaves except if really necessary. I can as well get hired workers to do the job since labour was cheap in those days, rather than having someone I'm feeding yet burdened with all the above responsibilities.


Finally to the argument, why did God not just ban slavery or say it's wrong.
This argument lies in the poor understanding of the Hebrew word for slavery as used in the bible and how the welfare system work in ancient civilization.
I will explain on that later.

jaephoenix:
So whats your point in all these? Are you saying these conditions are slavery, or what?

Ask your colleague adeniyi65 who seems to think flogging is synonymous with slavery.
Don't ask me.

Adeniyiademola:
It's still me Adeniyi dear SIRTee15
I could have replied you once but I have setback with uploading now through that adeniyi65 account. cc:seun the bug should be fix pls. I haven't break any rule of this platform. So, to the last part of that your argument

---

The chapter that gives you orgasm still goes further to give us law on how to buy/own slaves,(verse 2-7) and how to own more slaves by getting a wife for our slave so that their children can multiply our slaves. So pathetic, manual for capitalism of slavery .
An upright person should be ashamed of this law from their God. you should be ashamed of such book as your guide through the navigation of your world.

Now, down to verse 16 that you hold tight to.
16 “Anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death, whether the victim has been sold or is still in the kidnapper’s possession. I will boldly stand to say that it clearly contradict verse 2,3,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,20 and 21 of the same chapter. That raises another topic of the discrepancies, contradictions and historical error of the Bible which is not for here.[/i]


[b]If anyone is to be sincere to himself at this juncture, we would know that Verse 16 clearly instruct us not to have anything to do with slavery(as those kidnapped are meant for slave trade). And if people are to follow that verse, there wouldn't be need to give law on how to buy, multiply and beat slaves. There shouldn't be non ending list of how to acquire slaves, trade slaves, multiply slaves, abuse girl slaves narrated/commanded in all other verses. That's clear contradiction That's one of the clear contradiction of doctrine in the Bible.I say again and anyone who takes that kind of book as holy is a big time joker.

If you use that Exodus21:16 as what inspired abolitionists to resist slavery(because they mentioned some verses that is soft on slavery in their respective books), Bible said they are liars because He(God) is the one that has laid down to humanity(law on) how to thrive and be successful in slavery industry so for abolitionists to say no to slavery is the action that came from their mind not a book on how to multiply slaves.


, there is infinite number of verses that support the same slavery. If Bible chooses to be contradictory and you choose to take what pleases your doctrine out of it. It doesn't leave the book from supporting what you refused not to choose because they are still there. I still remain on my position. God ordains Slavery, and Abolitionists where driven by their reasoning not Bible.

ok, so your problem with the bible is now contradiction, you never talk wetin dey worry u.
at least u now admit, bible condemned forced slavery. That's a start.

adeniyi65:
SIRTee15




That Exodus21 is interesting. It's the chapter that gives power to slave owners on most barbaric act in slavery, which says slave masters can beat the h*ll out of their slaves as long as they dont die because they (slaves) are their properties. What is more gruesome than that. If you have refused to be logical, will you be happy if me and you are to go back into those days and I have your children as my slaves, will you be happy if I beat sh_i_t out of them because God allowed me to do so as long as I don't kill them for you? Don't be primitive in the name of religion bro.

I hope know as late as late as early 20th century, it's common practice for employers to flog their workers as part of punishment for wrongdoing. We are not so far removed from the time when physical punishment was administered and accepted by almost everyone as legitimate.
For example, physical chastisements were commonly employed as punishment for crimes committed and for the enforcing of discipline in the military even up till today. Generals flog junior officers as part of punishment in barracks. Even in NYSC camps, soldiers flog graduates as part of punishment; the more u protest the flogging, the more they wack u with koboko until u become humble. Teachers continue to flog stubborn and disobedient students in schools up till today.
In Nigeria, apprentice are flogged regularly if they displease their Masters and it's considered part of the training. Go to factories in Lagos, Lebanese and Chinese boss beats their employee on regular basis for minor things as coming late to work.

Foreign countries are not exempted. In the British Navy, flogging for disobedience or insubordination was common until the mid-19th century, and caning was used until the mid-20th century. In Singapore, flogging is still an official form of punishment for certain crimes such as spitting in public.

I dont really understand this your yapping about flogging. U better thank God the privilege u have that you or your children will not go thru flogging in the hands of an employer in this modern time. People get flogged every day all in a bid to put food on the table for their families.

This your noise about a master beating his slaves in ancient times makes no sense, even workers gets flogged in this modern age.

StillDtruth already explained the verse is about God instituting labour laws to ensure abuse is curtailed and excessiveness is punished.
Besides if u beat your slaves into permanent injury, who will then work the field. Is that not a loss to the master himself.

abeg this one na no be talk, na wokeness and trying to sound politically correct they worry u. Live in the real world man.

adeniyi65:
That is false. You quoted out of context to suit your need. Now take your reasoning cap and read from the beginning of that chapter to its end. It's only 24 verses but I will personally bring the important ones here. The chapter did not say that slave traders are bound for hell. The chapter explained the annihilation of the great city of Babylon through burning of fire. The question we should ask is why did God annihilated them? The answer is down in the last 2 verses. 23 "...By your(Babylon) magic spell all the nations were led astray.
24 In her(Babylon) was found the blood of prophets and of God’s holy people,
of all who have been slaughtered on the earth.” that's the reason while the city is pulled down.




To clear it further, the verse 11-13 you brought where slaves were mentioned was not singlehandedly outlined. It was listed with every other trades carried out in Babylon burning because of God annihilating the city. If you dodge in that verse, that means God is burning those that practice other legal trades as listed there too. Here is the verse 11- 13 again, “The merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her because no one buys their cargoes anymore— 12 cargoes of gold, silver, precious stones and pearls; fine linen, purple, silk and scarlet cloth; every sort of citron wood, and articles of every kind made of ivory, costly wood, bronze, iron and marble; 13 cargoes of cinnamon and spice, of incense, myrrh and frankincense, of wine and olive oil, of fine flour and wheat; cattle and sheep; horses and carriages; and human beings sold as slaves. you see now that slave is not the subject there. every other trade practiced by Babylon is mentioned. Therefore the chapter has nothing to do with slave traders burning in hell. It's dedicated to babylonians for killing God's prophets, killing holy people, slaughtering people on earth and their magic spell which is leading all their neighboring nations astray.

DO u even understand the concept of the book of Revelation or chapter 19 at all.
I do hope u are not referring to the ancient city of babylon in your explanation....A city that was already dissolved into other empires as the time the book of Revelation was revealed.
As at chapter 19 of the revelation, the rapture had already taken place and what's being described there is part of reign of the anti-christ during the great tribulation.
Babylon in that chapter is an anthropomorphism describing the evil world system, controlled by the Antichrist, during the last days before Jesus’ return. The LovePeddler of Babylon also has religious connotations – spiritual adultery with the beast being the focus of an ungodly, end-times religious system. The traders were those who benefitted from the evil system and will be destined for destruction.

pls b4 u reply me go and read apocalypse and the great tribulation as per Christian theology. if u yarn nonsense again, I will just ignore u

adeniyi65:
That is false. You quoted out of context to suit your need. Now take your reasoning cap and read from the beginning of that chapter to its end. It's only 24 verses but I will personally bring the important ones here. The chapter did not say that slave traders are bound for hell. The chapter explained the annihilation of the great city of Babylon through burning of fire. The question we should ask is why did God annihilated them? The answer is down in the last 2 verses. 23 "...By your(Babylon) magic spell all the nations were led astray.
24 In her(Babylon) was found the blood of prophets and of God’s holy people,
of all who have been slaughtered on the earth.” that's the reason while the city is pulled down.




To clear it further, the verse 11-13 you brought where slaves were mentioned was not singlehandedly outlined. It was listed with every other trades carried out in Babylon burning because of God annihilating the city. If you dodge in that verse, that means God is burning those that practice other legal trades as listed there too. Here is the verse 11- 13 again, “The merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her because no one buys their cargoes anymore— 12 cargoes of gold, silver, precious stones and pearls; fine linen, purple, silk and scarlet cloth; every sort of citron wood, and articles of every kind made of ivory, costly wood, bronze, iron and marble; 13 cargoes of cinnamon and spice, of incense, myrrh and frankincense, of wine and olive oil, of fine flour and wheat; cattle and sheep; horses and carriages; and human beings sold as slaves. you see now that slave is not the subject there. every other trade practiced by Babylon is mentioned. Therefore the chapter has nothing to do with slave traders burning in hell. It's dedicated to babylonians for killing God's prophets, killing holy people, slaughtering people on earth and their magic spell which is leading all their neighboring nations astray.

DO u even understand the concept of the book of Revelation or chapter 19 at all.
I do hope u are not referring to the ancient city of babylon in your explanation....A city that was already dissolved into other empires as the time the book of Revelation was revealed.
As at chapter 19 of the revelation, the rapture had already taken place and what's being described there is part of reign of the anti-christ.
Babylon in that chapter is an anthropomorphism describing the evil world system, controlled by the Antichrist, during the last days before Jesus’ return. The LovePeddler of Babylon also has religious connotations – spiritual adultery with the beast being the focus of an ungodly, end-times religious system. The traders were those who benefitted from the evil system and they were all destined for destruction.

adeniyi65:
yes. Law is supposed be made for all. But omini potence God that want all nations to worship him should give law to stop absurdities not to manage it. As he gives law to stop idolatry(his favorite), he supposed give law to stop slavery instead of managing slavery telling how people should treat their slaves. what is so hard in saying "DESIST FROM SLAVERY"

SO IF GOD SAYS SLAVE TRADING IS A SIN, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

I HOPE U KNOW SIN IS ETERNAL SEPERATION FROM GOD. WHAT COULD BE WORSE THAN THAT?

KnownUnknown:
I have no colleagues.
Save your explanation. Not remotely interested in your musings.

calm down, no hard feelings.
dont let your emotions overtake your sense of rationality.
If u see the truth, embrace it.

StillDtruth:
The question is the justification valid?

And the answer is "NO".

Because slavery is intertwined with Employment and Labour which are Lawfull and Necessary therefore leaving the only reasonable option of pursuing and prosecuting those who are in violation of human rights and Labour Rights and Contract.

So in the end all who say the bible permitted slavery speak foolishly and ignorantly.



Slavery is not in the bible (constitution of Isreal) it is Human Rights, Law of war, Labour Law, Law of Contract etc that is there.

That is why everyone is attacking you because you are not perfectly right.

Whatever terminology U want to use, the word slavery is very much visible in the laws Moses gave to Israelites. We can't deny it.
I think U should do more reading on the modality of slavery as described in the old testament.
That's what causing the trouble here. People are extrapolating the definition of modern day slavery to ancient times.
Anyway I will write on that later in the day.

If everyone is attacking me, maybe I'm the one giving them hard time on the propaganda they trying to push here
I already made the 3 bible antagonist here admit that bible spoke against slavery, something they all initially denied.
The issue is now what about about verses for slavery.

We already made it clear kidnapping people and selling them in slave market is immoral. So the trans Atlantic slave trade was evil.

I will write on slavery by choice and war victims in the Torah later on.

musicwriter:
I get your point.

But the part you all fail to understand is that there's no home grown system of education to pass that information of bacteria, gems, and viruses to them.

As that traditional practice evolved, so should the system of "knowing" evolve side-by-side with it. But since we no longer have a self inspired system of education since we met white people, it means that the practice is stuck in the past.

Western education can't be used to solve uniquely African situation. This is the part we weren't told by those who enslaved us.

I dont what religion U follow or U be atheist....
But I will encourage U to observe what's going on with Islam recently esp in the west.
They are adapting their religious practice to fit with western inspired philosophy.
Allah is now very loving and loves his slaves/servants whatever.
Muslims no longer see anything wrong in calling Allah father so long it's metaphorical.
Muhammed is the kindest man that ever liveth and he's so gentle he never hurt a dove.
Islam is the best religion for women because it gave rights to women b4 any other civilisation.
Aisha's age has been corrected to 16 as at when she married Muhammed.
Quranic verse that says strike your wife has been corrected to mean separate from your wife.
Apostasy law in islam has been rejected- Islam is by choice.
All hadiths that says negative things about Muhammed as per western standard are rejected- doesn't matter whether it's sahih or not.
All bad things in islam is due to culture and not the religion. When a Muslim does something evil, just blame the culture- it doesn't matter if the evil is confirmed in Quran or hadith.

Of course we all know Muslims from core islamic countries don't follow the propagandized thinking above, but what I wrote is the NEW FACE OF ISLAM BEING SOLD IN WEST.

Except U telling me all traditionalists are uneducated and primitive bunch by western standard, then they don't have any excuse.
Is Wole Soyinka not a traditionalist, what effort has he made to reform and enlighten his companions in the faith? Or is it condemning just Christianity up and down that's he's good for? Is that why he became a traditionalist.

All religion can be reformed to fit into modern standard and way of life- that's the truth. That's why some people believe religion was man-made after all.

musicwriter:
Maybe we should just call it BAPTISM, then everything will be fine

My friend if any Christian perform baptism in that water, I will condemn it as well.
That water is very dirty and the environment is filthy.
Traditionalist should step up abeg. I'm all for choice of religion but I hate retrogressive practice.

KnownUnknown:
Why are you giving yourself agita?
The Bible was used to justify slavery and was also used to oppose slavery. There is probably more support for slavery in the book than opposition to it. There’s nothing to argue about unless you are the type of Christian who bends over backwards to deny the obvious. Even then your claims can be disregarded.

Ok he be like say U are more honest than your colleagues.
U admitted bible spoke against slavery but also spoke for it.
So then we can have a honest debate unlike your dishonest colleagues who tore off pages of the bible they don't like and only want to talk about passages that push their sinister agenda.
They are no different from American slave masters who also removed pages of the bible they dont like;(threatens their slave business)b4 handing it to slaves.

I'm a sincere and open person, a truth seeker. I'm very much open to alternative ideology even if it antagonize my belief. The issue it whoever presenting it must equally be open and sincere.
I didn't find it in adeniyi the monicker who started this thread.

Slavery was very much established in the constitution given to Israelites and very much rampant during early Christian ministry- almost 20% of the Roman population were slaves.
The question we should ask is why was it acceptable then and not now.
I will explain later.

KnownUnknown:
Lmao, the bloody irony!! Person whose position is wholly based on irrational, illogical, blatant nonsense talking about a logical argument.

Present your argument or shut up.
Don't waste anybody's time here.
Your friend brought a so called logical argument praising abolitionist for ending slavery but couldn't explain why the same abolitionists used the bible as motivation to end slavery.

Your other colleague jaephonix claimed it was king George that ended slavery but didn't know same person was the head of the church at his time and criticized those who used the bible to justify slavery.
To make things worse, he compared war against slavery to someone beating his wife.

Bunch of illogical jokers claiming atheist. Simple and basic research U won't do.

Una saving grace be internet. None of U can stand me for 5 minutes face to face in any theological argument.

This is the 3rd page of this debate but none of them could answer any of my 2 simple questions.

KnownUnknown:
Christians and Jews (inherently duplicitous) are so delusional. They can see all the atrocities in Islam and can open their mouths to criticize people like Boko Haram; BUT, the bloodlust and madness in their religion are glossed over and excused.
They will rightly criticize Boko Haram, but when the same behavior is pointed out in their scriptures, they twist themselves into pretzels trying to justify the same behavior.

If one isn’t delusional and read some of those so called scriptures, one would realize that the Hebrew god is a repulsive creature created by greedy people, Moses would be called a terrorist, and Jesus would be viewed, ACCURATELY, as nothing more than a cult leading charlatan.

All your shalaye means nothing. If U want to enter the arena, come with logical argument not ones coated with emotions.

Your friend adeniyi65 came here and claimed the bible tacitly supports the transatlantic slave trade and enslavement of black people.
I used the bible and historical evidence to destroy his argument and wound him off the ring. He's yet to recover.
I produce biblical evidence that showed kidnapping of people for slavery and forced enslavement of people is evil and all those who participate in such are bound for hell.

U can continue is rant, it's a free world. But truth remains the truth.
Simple.

jaephoenix:
Since you have a brain of a 5 yo and don't understand the analogy, lemme break it down.
A man(Lincoln) said he beat his wife(abolition of slavery) after he took water(read the bible) even though water is not alcoholic (the Bible doesn't hate slavery)
Do you need more explanation, Junior?

This is the most idiotic analogy I have ever seen.
That's why I hate debating U.
Is beating your wife a good cause to start with.

Someone who beat his wife should be jailed irrespective of his motivation.
I don't understand why your dumb brain couldn't tell U that.

jaephoenix:
I expected you to read at least one passage out of those I quoted , but you obviously didn't read one, if you did, you would have seen where Yahweh clearly instructed Israelites to raid cities and capture their citizens for slavery, and take their virgins for themselves. That is forced labor and sexual assault same exact thing Boko Haram and other terrorists do. So Yahweh is a terrorist god
Keep dodging the truth

Quote the verse here or keep shut up.
I brought all my verse here.
U are so annoying ....

In case U dont know....king George who signed the emancipation of slavery called those who used the bible to justify slavery as mad people.
He was head of the church of England when he banned slavery.

jaephoenix:
Since you have a brain of a 5 yo and don't understand the analogy, lemme break it down.
A man(Lincoln) said he beat his wife(abolition of slavery) after he took water(read the bible) even though water is not alcoholic (the Bible doesn't hate slavery)
Do you need more explanation, Junior?

This is the most idiotic analogy I have ever seen.
That's why I hate debating U.
Is beating your wife a good cause to start with.