₦airaland Forum

AbuTwins:
You should tell us what Jesus said, should we look at Matthew or Mark?

Mark 10
26 The disciples were astounded. “Then who in the world can be saved?” they asked.

27 Jesus looked at them intently and said, “Humanly speaking, it is impossible. But not with God. Everything is possible with God.”

28 Then Peter began to speak up. “We’ve given up everything to follow you,” he said.

29 “Yes,” Jesus replied, “and I assure you that everyone who has given up (everything) house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or property, for my sake and for the Gospel, 30 will receive now in return a hundred times as many houses, brothers, sisters, mothers, children, and property—along with persecution. And in the world to come that person will have eternal life. 31 But many who are the greatest now will be least important then, and those who seem least important now will be the greatest then.”

To inherit eternal life, you believe in Jesus and his gospel.

AbuTwins:
You know you were not a Muslim before bringing the verse.
To conclude on this you need to show us the context of that verse!

I brought the contextual meaning and you said it's the Tafsir.
So bring your own contextual meaning now!

Answer my question. I'm looking for a religion to follow and needs clarification.
I don't care about your books because I don't know what's in it.

If indeed Jesus is the son of God, is it right for me to worship him?

Ohyoudidnt:
No I don't believe that Jesus preferably Yeshua or Isa a.s is divine.

He however has a special position amongst mankind and with God

So are U saying U believe Thomas knew Jesus was divine i.e has a divine nature?

AbuTwins:
Your attachment states that Yhw is the name of a place!
Shasu is a nomadic tribe!

Shasu of Yhw!

So what does that mean?

What name did Moses in the Qur'an called his God.
How come 2 prophets of Allah are named after YHWH but Muhammed has no idea who is YHWH.

Muhammad told U Elijah and John the baptists are prophets of Allah.
Elijah means My God is YHWH.

So Allah was busy calling one of his prophets 'My God is YHWH' but forgot to tell Muhammed that he's called YHWH.

YHWH is hidden in your Koran, U just dont know.
The issue is even Muhammed is also ignorant that the name YHWH exist in the Qur'an he delivered.

My question remain why did Muhammed not know the name of God which is YHWH.

AbuTwins:
Give us the context of the verse!

Answer my question. I'm not a Muslim so can't help with how you interpret your Quran.

Just answer my question. If Jesus is indeed the son of God, should he be worshipped.

This is a simple Yes or No question. Use the context of your quran and give me a reply.
Should I worship Jesus if indeed he's the son of God?

22jumpstreet:
Like I said, Immanuel is Isaiah second son...so the woman can't be a virgin..The sign was for king Ahaz, the oracle was for him..
If you continue reading to chapter 8:18 it says "I and the sons the Lord has given me we are for signs and potens for the children..... Isaiah and his 3 sons where the signs..do you understand now?
Learn, unlearn and relearn.

Isaiah 2nd son is mentioned in Isaiah 8.3 and he's not Immanuel.

3 Then I made love to the prophetess, and she conceived and gave birth to a son. And the Lord said to me, “Name him Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz. 4 For before the boy knows how to say ‘My father’ or ‘My mother,’ the wealth of Damascus and the plunder of Samaria will be carried off by the king of Assyria.”

Immanuel means God is with us...Isaiah has no son who bears such name.
He has 2 sons, the first was mentioned in Isaiah 7.3

drlateef:
Truth is bitter to you. I have told you the truth.

Bring evidence Mary was 12 yrs when she got married. Just one piece of evidence like this...

Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).
Sahih Bukhari 7:62:64

Narrated 'Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me.
When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)
Sahih Bukhari 8:73:151



What kind of mansleeps with a child still playing with dolls.
Truth be told...Muhammed no try at all.

AbuTwins:
Where did Jesus make your last claim while he was alive and walking around? He rather wait till John sees a dream in revelation right?

When the rich ruler met Jesus, Jesus told him to obey the commandments and follow him!
Later you guys changed everything!

When the richan left and his disciples asked Jesus how can someone be saved? How did Jesus respond?

NaBanga:
I went to school with whites from a small age to graduate school. I have worked with them. I have been in many situations where I have been the only black person. I am still here standing. What of Shanquella Robinson that was killed by her friends in Mexico? You are more likely to be killed by a fellow black person than a white person.

I pity U, continue playing with the white man. The day he gets tired of u is the day he gets rid of u.
Many naive blacks like U learnt the hard way.

Work with whites but don't be friends with them. Simple

AbuTwins:
Your attachment is a Tafsir too!
You rejected mine because it was translated with a Tafsir!

Why are you an hypocrite like this?

You don't even know the meaning of context!

Then post as written in the Qur'an.simple. leave tafsir out.

If Allah had a son, I Muhammed would be the first to worship him.

That's what Muhammad revealed on the Koran.

AbuTwins:
Okay show us the context of the verse then!

This is the context below.


Now will U answer my question, If Jesus is indeed the son of God, should he be worshipped?

AbuTwins:
I have brought it according to the Qur'an I use on my phone and according to the understanding of those who transmitted the Qur'an. If it doesn't satisfy you then go and crucify yourself.

U people will accuse Christians of forging the scriptures by adding their own meaning but U Muslims are also guilty.

What U guys did with surah 43.81 is exactly as the johanine comma in 1 John.
U guys have intentionally altered the meaning of surah 43.81 to hide the embarrassment in that verse.

Anyway this is the verse U refuse to bring here despite persistent request for more than a week

Say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “If the Most Compassionate really had offspring, I (Muhammed) would be the first worshipper.”

Other translation and Arabic below.

Now based on this verse and not your dubious translation...

If Jesus is truly the son of God, should he be worshipped.

Bintasukai:
I’m happy you are in the mood, let’s continue with all your reverend fathers rapin boys in the annals.

I'm not even catholic so U barking at the wrong horse.
Their doctrine is anti bible and I don't believe they follow Christ in the first place.
So waste of time.

Bintasukai:
Ignore fire. Na to Dey give them gbas gobs. Na to educate them about their religion make dem take keep quiet. The problem is that western media has long been tagging Muslims to terrorist acts while they never do same for Christian’s who commit evil acts. Eg. Have you ever heard Christianity being blamed when their teens shoot up their schools? The Christian agenda is clear. Who are the weakest people you can justify evil crimes against, and they chose the Muslims because they know all they have to do is tell their populace that those guys across the line are bad bad people and their citizens and other bigots around the world will gobble it up. Thereby allowing them a free hand to terrorize Muslims. Please do not ignore them, speak up or you show tacit approval for what Israel is doing in Palestine.

So when al queda drove plane into tall building shouting allahu Akbar, that was western media
When Muslims dragged Deborah out of class n burnt her death then the chief imam of Abuja justified, that one too na western media
U people will do evil, celebrate it but will cry out when U are labelled such.

Nobody start shooting in school shooting in the name of Jesus. Or claim he was motivated by the bible.
U Muslims carry such award.

drlateef:
You are mad. Mary was 10 years old when a 92 year old Joseph started molesting her. Deal with that. All your pastors are rapists raping choir members and ushers every Sunday. Deal with that.

Why not 3 yrs....oniyeye.

U people are so ashamed of the immoral act of your prophet U end up searching for partners in crime to validate his pardophile behaviour.

If that guy had slept with a 14 yr old in Kano or Afghanistan, will they even bother to arrest him?

Bintasukai:
Useless bigot. Christianity is the religion of sexual depravation with minors. Don’t dull it. I pray you are in the mood for a debate.

I'm in the mood.
Let's start with your prophet muhammed- sleeping with a 9 year old is immoral.
Deal with that.

22jumpstreet:
Lol very laughable..

Did you read verse 16?

Isaiah 7:14-16

14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you(king Ahaz) a sign: The young woman is with child and will give birth to a son, and she will call him Immanuel.[d] 15 He will be eating curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, 16 for before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste."


Which boy, bro??

First U lied that Immanuel is the name of Isaiah's son. Now that you have been bursted...U now looking for the boy in v 16.

Its impossible for a virgin to give birth. Don't come up with maiden angle because in ancient Jewish tradition a maiden (unmarried young lady) is expected to be a virgin. If U are found not to be a virgin on your wedding night- you are stoned to death.
That's why Septuagint wrote is as virgin.


The prophecy is both for near and ultimate fulfilment.

But if U disagree, then tell me who is the immanuel in
the old testament.
Who fits the criteria of Immanuel in the old testament?

I do not support any immigration that changes the identity and culture of a nation.
God didn't make us one and it's intentional. We are different and that should be respected.

Africans should develop Africa n make it look like paradise.
Enough of blackmail.

22jumpstreet:
No

Nazareth only came into existence in the 4th century...That's even enough evidence that no such person even existed...

There's nothing I hate more than ignorant atheist forming knowledge on bible history.
This is the 2nd blunder u will be making on this thread. Lying up and down.

See your lord and master Bart Erhman response on Nazareth. He obviously calls u LIAR.

https://ehrmanblog.org/did-nazareth-exist/#:~:text=There%20is%20Archaeological%20Evidence%20Nazareth%20Existed&text=There%20are%20numerous%20compelling%20pieces,cut%20kokh%20tombs%20were%20built.

22jumpstreet:
Which ones?

And which evidence did they provide..

I am not disproving the fact that somebody named Jesus(Joshua) never existed around that time...but the one portrayed in the Bible Never existed.

Did someone called Jesus of Nazareth exist. That's the issue.
And was he crucified for whatever reason.

22jumpstreet:
He never existed bro
Only a dunce will believe a woman can become pregnant without the input of a man...

It's a myth, Jesus is just a metaphor for the sun.(The sun of God)

So historians who admitted historicity of Jesus are lying then...

22jumpstreet:
You are just desperate. And you keep failing.
Immanuel is Isaiah s second son. The sign was for king Ahaz, it was to assure him that his kingdom will stand the threat of the northern kingdom and syria...read verse 16...

Try again mister.

Isaiah never had a son called Immanuel. The prophecy wasnt for Ahaz who is a faithless king, did horrible things including sacrificing his son in fire and built altars for pagan gods in the temple. God cared less if he was dethroned.

The prophecy was assurance that the throne of David will be forever secured and will not be truncated according to the plans of enemies kings.

The kings of Israel and Syria had planned to invade Jerusalem and remove Ahaz as king, then install son of Tabeel who was not from Judah to become king.
This will bring an end to davidic descendants monarchy and also God's promise to David that his descendant will always be enthroned in Judah so long as there's a monarchy.

God sent Isaiah to assure Ahaz that the David line of kings shall remain intact and the threat of syria- Israel will not terminate it.
The sign he gave was a confirmation of that Davidic covenant and has nothing to do with Ahaz reign.
That prophecy has both near and ultimate fulfilment seen in one vision.

The ultimate fulfilment was accomplished in Jesus Christ as confirmed by the angelic message to Mary.

Luke 1
31 You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High (Immanuel). The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.”

Is it that American military are using a software they are not familiar with or what's with all these all these meaningless crashes here and there...

God1000:
We still have a long way to go in Nigeria


Nigeria's power generation and supply from its national grid revolves between 3,500MW and 4,500MW for an estimated population of 200 million people.

Can U convert Nigerian consumption to gigawatt so we can compare

AbahJFK:
Drugs/cigarettes addictions are quite very different from porn/masturbation. Abrupt withdrawal from drugs may cause withdrawal symptoms which vary in severity and may lead to death in some people. But on the other hand stopping sex/Indecency at once will not lead to any physical symptoms (but may have some emotional) and therefore no threat to Life. So u don't gradual withdrawal from sex. More over who will monitor the amount of porn u r supposed to watch, as against drugs, where you are monitored and gradually wean off.
Spiritually these two things (porn/sex and prayers/reading the word) can not mix, they are like oil and water. Therefore flee porn(do away with all Indecency materials) the devil can force anything on u, you need to take that step first. Run first (Joseph ran) and God will help you with the emotional battles. Porn/Sex will reduce you to a piece of bread, pls flee and have faith and God will help. But playing with the fire will just get u burnt. If u do away with all the gadgets and avoid persons/things that trigger you, God will help you. If ur right arm will lead you to sin pls cut it off, if not the gangrene will spread n u loss ur whole body

I think U need to attend bible study more. What U wrote here is simply theory.
The outcome is constant struggle with son.
Lots of Christian don't even understand why Jesus came.

Let me ask U this questions

When did Zaccheus perform restitution, was it b4 he met Jesus or after he met Jesus.
When Jesus was annointed by the woman in Bethany, was she known in the community as a sinner as at that time?

While his answer may provoke dissension in Christendom, the solution lies in his answer.

Porn, mastubation, wet dreams are addictions driven by sexual urge- this urge is the most powerful known to man. Man can do anything to satisfy his sexual urge- anything.
We don't know this things because people who indulge in them are to ashamed to discuss it openly thus it's a non-criminal habit done in secret.
Even married people who indulge in it do not tell their spouse.

If U think U can motivate yourself out of sexual urge- U must be joking.
The problem is sexual urge is natural, it's part of your body system that makes u human. Without sexual urge, how can U fulfil God's commandment to procreate and be fruitful

U can't wish sexual desire away, it will surely come.
The only way to overcome the sin that comes with sexual urge is to be filled with the power that overcomes sin- Holy spirit.

And the holy spirit comes by regular meditation and constant reading the word of God. The more U enmesh yourself in the word and let it fill your mind, U will notice your desire for sin will be gone. Its a mystery but it works.
Sexual urge will remain but will only come at the right time. That's what THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT CAN DO.

AbuTwins:
That's the verse I gave you from the Qur'an I use!

See attached!

And that's the context!

My friend bring it as written in the Arabic Koran, exactly as revealed by Muhammed.

Not all these 419 dubious translators who are ashamed of the Qur'an just like yourself.

AbuTwins:
Tell us the context?

Context na Tafsir?

Bring the verse first, then we discuss the context

AbuTwins:
I didn't quote Tafsir. I quoted translated Qu'ran by Mohsin/Khan which is translated with Hadith and Tafsir!

You're ignorant.

What's the context, your hypocritical eyes skipped that? Or you don't know the meaning of context?

Mr Man go and bring surah 43.81 in the Qur'an here. I dont want hadith or tafsir. Bring it as Allah revealed it to Muhammed.
Let's check something.
I want to know why Muhammed wants to worship Jesus.

AbuTwins:
What's the context of the verse?

Say (O Muhammad SAW): "If the Most Beneficent (Allah) had a son (or children as you pretend), then I am the first of Allah's worshippers [who deny and refute this claim of yours (and the first to believe in Allah Alone and testify that He has no children)]." [Tafsir At-Tabari].



Whatever Allah says will happen on judgement day will be as He says!

That hasn't happen yet! So you can't base your argument on a future event!

And it's not even anthropomorphic at all. The attributes of Allah are always of the highest perfection as it befits His majesty!

If Allah has hands His hand are not like ours!

That's the interpretation of "there's none like unto Him"!

U have no shame at all. Too embarrassed to quote your own Qur'an.
Shame will not allow U quote surah 43.81.
Instead U had ran to tafsir to safe face.
My friend bring surah 43.81 here, let's learn something.

Meanwhile no be only U get tafsir on surah 43.81

Jalal - Al-Jalalayn
Say: ‘If the Compassionate One had a son, hypothetically [speaking], I would have been first among the worshippers, of that son; but it is established that He, exalted be He, does not have a child and thus there can be no worshipping of such [a child].


Is this not what U hiding. Muhammed saying he wants to worship Jesus.
Hehehe.....

The question is why would Muhammed contemplate worshipping Jesus at all under whatever circumstances?
Why?

AbuTwins:
Of course the answer is clear!

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(1) The Lord said . . .--The usual prophetic phrase, generally translated, "Thus saith," &c. (See Note, Psalm 36:1.)
The psalmist may possibly be quoting an old prophetic saying, but, according to the usual way in which the expression is used, it marks an immediate inspiration.

My Lord.--Heb., adoni, an address of honour to those more noble than the speaker, or superior in rank: to a father, Genesis 31:35; to a brother, Numbers 12:11; a royal consort, 1Kings 1:17-18; to a prince, 1Kings 3:17; with addition of the royal title, "my Lord, O king," 2Samuel 14:19. . . .

Once again you.....

God is unlike man! Na Councils brought about such theories!

So what we doing now is just back and forth which would never end. At this junction it's pointless.

But I will like to teach u some basic things about the bible and theology because it shows u deficient in knowledge in some aspect and U confusing things up and down.

The word lord.
Now this word is used in three different ways in the bible. The English bible substituted some Hebrew word with lord for easier comprehension and usage, and will discuss it here...

LORD- when U see LORD in the English bible, it's the word for YHWH. The Hebrew bible will have YHWH in those places.

Lord- this word is for Adonai, another name of God in the bible. Lord is not used for anyone else in the bible except God. The tanakh will have Adonai in places English bible writes Lord.

lord- adoni is simply master. This is for humans and never used for God in the bible.

Now the Septuagint bible written by Jews and not Christians in 250 BC which is 250 yrs b4 any Christian was born used the word Lord for the 2nd person in psalm 110.
So psalm 110 verse 1 in Septuagint will read ' YHWH said unto my adonai' Both are names for God alone.

The Jews in the 2nd temple Judaism believe. Psalm 110 is messianic prophecy for a divine Messiah. The Christians built on this and said Jesus is the divine Messiah talked about in psalm 110 since Jesus spoke about it.

Now when the rabbinical Jews complied the Masoretic text now the official hebrew bible in 900AD, they claimed the word is lord and not Lord.
Thus psalm 110.1 in Hebrew bible read 'YHWH said unto my master'.

The rabbinical Jews admitted the psalm is about the Messiah but now rejected a divine Messiah. Instead they insist the Messiah is just a normal human being and not a divine person.

This shows it's the Jews that have changed their understanding of psalm 110 possible influenced by Christian claim of Jesus fulfilling verses like psalm 110.

This explanation is not for argument but to give u and Christians historical context to psalm 110.

Your argument that it was Christians that changed the verse is invalid and not congruent with historical context .

AbuTwins:
Why would God need a son?
Why would God share his divinity?
So Jesus was 100% human and not God at all while on earth?
If Jesus was truly the son of God, we'll have to find out how God gave birth to him? By reproduction, adoption or creation?
But since Jesus still worshipped God and claimed he is going to his God who is our God then we'll still worship the God he worshipped not him!

So why did your Quran say if Allah has a son, the son should be worshipped.
Obviously what U wrote up there contradict surah 44.81
Why did Muhammed gave such blasphemous statement. Why did he say if Jesus is truly the son of God, he would be the first to worship Jesus.

AbuTwins:
Allah already states clearly He begets not nor is He begotten!
And Anthropomorphism does not work in Islam as regards God!

So if anthropomorphism doesn't work in islam, then are U saying Allah truly has a visible shin?
Is that what U saying because a lot of your colleagues here denied the existence of a visible shin.