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Christianity Etc › Re: Reactions As Islamic Cleric Claims That Prophet Mohammed Had Sugar Mummy by SIRTee15: 3:11pm On Apr 04, 2024

ANTllSLAAM:
But you have the same Suleiman in your quran.. Why not defend him with the demons that visited Muhammad in cave.

Personally I don't see any problem if people wants to go to heaven filled with sumptuous women and unending availability of booze.

I don't even understand why they are ashamed of their own heaven. For the carnal mind- it's a perfect description of heaven.
If I'm a Muslim, I will not be ashamed of the heaven Muhammed described for me.
Infact that's the only thing I will defend in islam.

Antichristian honesttalk expanse don't be ashamed of your heaven.
Islamic heaven sounds like a brothel in a red light district but Allah ordained it for U as a reward for
being a slave to him.

Which carnal minded man doesn't want this....

Christianity Etc › Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by SIRTee15: 1:53pm On Apr 04, 2024

Expanse2020:
where did you see this...
But you claimed oness of Allah or to believe in oness of ALLAH is not in the Quran
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
You are confused óò
Oya show us where the God of father, the God of son and the holy in the bible..
Abeg pls show me

Understand your tawhid b4 engaging me. Muhammed never attributed divine simplicity to Allah, He simply said Allah is one God.
The concept of unique oneness of Allah in his totality and entirety is not in the Koran. It's a false doctrine.

That's why Muslims cannot explain if the shin of Allah is one with Allah or separate from him.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Reactions As Islamic Cleric Claims That Prophet Mohammed Had Sugar Mummy by SIRTee15: 1:04pm On Apr 04, 2024

AntiChristian:
But Joseph too was a Sugar daddy to Mary abi because no pastor don talk am?

How many Sugar daddies dey your Bible?

Even your God Himself took 32 virgins in Numbers 31:40. No be Sugar God be that?

Even Sons of Elohim were Sugar Angels to earthly ladies in the Bible! This is Genesis 6:1-4.

In Genesis 38, Judah impregnate his daughter in law by harlotry to give birth to the ancestor of Jesus. Another questionable Sugar daddy!

And we also have the Sugar Warriors in Numbers 31:17-18 that committed genocide sparing only the virgins for themselves and God!

And the Sugar mummy from Muhammad is even weak with no authentic hadith or Qur'an verse to back it up!

At What Age Did the Prophet - salaLlaahu alahyi wa sallam - Marry Khadeejah - radiyaLlaahu an'ha?

Popular but Unreliable Stories Series I

By Aboo Naasir - Hafidhahu-Llaah

The reports about the age of the Prophet (sallallaahu alayhi wasallam) and Khadeejah (radiya Allahu anha) at marriage have been reported by:

1. Ibn Sa’d in Tabaqaat al-Kubraa (8/15-17) with four (4) different chains, all from Muhammad bin Umar bin Waaqid al-Waaqidee who reported from his Shaykhs in the different routes. In one of the reports, it said Khadeejah was 28yrs old then. In another it said she was 25; and in yet another, she was said to be 40 while he was 25. The other report only said she was about 10 years older than him at the time. Despite the obvious irregularities in the reports, regarding Muhammad bin Umar al-Waaqidee who transmitted all, Imam Ahmad said, “He is a liar”! Al-Bukhaaree said: “His narrations are abandoned; Ahmad, Ibn Numayr, Ibn Mubaarak and Ismaa’eel bin Zakariyya all abandon him.” Imam Yahya bin Ma’een said, “He is not reliable.” Imam Aboo Hatim ar-Raazee said, “his narrations should not be accepted.” Imam Ibn al-Madeenee said, “He fabricates narrations.” See Tahdheeb al-Kamaal (26/180-194), al-Kaashif by Hafidh adh-Dhahabee (2/281) and Taqreeb at-Tahdheeb by Hafidh Ibn Hajar (no. 6175).

2. Al-Haakim in al-Mustadrak (3/200) with his chain of reporters ending with Muhammad bin Ishaaq, giving his own narration that: “When he married her she was 28.” Although the chain is Hasan (sound) up to Ibn Ishaaq, it is well-known that he was not a witness to the event and was even not companion. The source of his narration is not clearly known.

3. Ibn Hisham as cited in al-Bidayah wan-Nihayah (1/631) gave her age as 25 citing “some people of knowledge on the authority of Aboo ‘Amr al-Madanee.”

4. Ya’qoob Ibn Sufyaan al-Fasawee as cited in al-Bidayah wan-Nihayah (1/631) who reported with a chain that ended with “many told me that”: “...he was 25 yrs old.”

Commenting on these reports, Dr. Akram Diyaa al-‘Umaree said: “Even though these pieces of information are not authentic based on the science of narrations, they are popular among the historians”! He also said, “No authentic reports can be found shedding light on these events.” As-Seerat an-Nabawiyyah as-Saheehah (1/113-114).

Also, Muhammad bin Abdillah al-‘Ushan has included these reports in his book: Maa shaa’a walam yathbut fee as-Seerat an-Nabawiyyah (Popular But Unreliable Reports Cited in the Prophet’s Biography) pg. 18.

Allahu A'alam.

So academically the Sugar Mummy reports have no authentic reference and the Cleric just wanted to trend using fake reports!
But your own Sugar Son of Elohim, Sugar God, Sugar Joseph, Sugar Judah, Sugar Warriors, etc dey your Bible!

Expanse2020 let us crucify these ignoramuses!
Antiislaam, correctguy101, TenQ, SIRTee15, advocatejare, IslamVIRGINS, MightySparrow

See how this one threw the hadith under the bus because he's ashamed to admit Muhammed has sugar mummy.

Kadijah toasted Muhammed and paid his groom price.
Kadijah married Muhammed and not the other way round.
Above is the definition of sugar mummy irrespective of age of kadijah

The way it's going in another 50 yrs all Muslims will be Qar'anist especially the educated and convert muslims.
because they will be so ashamed of the hadiths they will
altogether abandon it.

I can't imagine myself being a Muslim and defending this nonsense from one of their authentic hadiths.

Narrated 'Abdullah (ra) A person was mentioned before the Prophet (saw) and he was told that he had kept on sleeping till morning and had not got up for the prayer. The Prophet(saw) said, "Satan urinated in his ears."
(Volume 2, Book 21, Number 245:Bukhari)

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Christianity Etc › Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by SIRTee15: 9:57am On Apr 04, 2024

Expanse2020:
Just answer me what is the meaning of Tawheed

https://www.google.com/amp/s/islamqa.info/amp/en/answers/49030

Christianity Etc › Re: Reactions As Islamic Cleric Claims That Prophet Mohammed Had Sugar Mummy by SIRTee15: 3:07am On Apr 04, 2024

Expanse2020:
But you don't here the part where he corrected himself that is not sugar mummy relationship type.... But you can only clip a sentence out of the whole videos to spread gossip, rumors...
Continue made the lord give you strength to spread more gossip and rumors till you realize you have gone beyond it ..

But Muhammed has sugar mummy now.
I sha gbadun the guy, he made sure he tasted both extremes.
From having sugar mummy to becoming sugar daddy himself to Aisha.
Life couldn't be better for Muhammed.

1 Like 1 Share

Christianity Etc › Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by SIRTee15: 2:57am On Apr 04, 2024*

Lukuluku69:
If this was established as you claimed (Trinity) why then was a Conference convoked some 300+ after your lord and savior left?

Why the need to debate and vote on God's Nature?

Why the needless killings and banishment in that era?

The council of nicea was actually called to deal with the heretic doctrine of Arianism. Trinity discussion was secondary.

I believe in trinity because it's in the bible not because some bishops sat down in Turkey to establish it.

If Trinity is not in the bible, I will never believe it. The council of Nicene only confirm what's in the scriptures not the other way round.

I dont get this persecution U guys are talking about. Arianism was very much popular and was mainstream for a very long time in Christendom even after the nicene conference.
Immediately the son of Constantine become emperor of Roman empire, Constantinus reverse his father's religious stance and embrace Arianism. He made the bishops supporting arian doctrine the head of churches and expelled Trinitarians bishops to extreme of the empire.
The next emperor Julius embraced Roman paganism and declared he would not favour any side over another.
The next emperor Valen revived Constantinus policy and persecuted trinitarians in the empire.

So I don't get this talk about persecution of Arianist during Roman empire period.
U people should read more.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by SIRTee15: 2:55am On Apr 04, 2024*

Ohyoudidnt:
Simply said did all jews accept Jesus as their messiah? Do all of them accept him now? Therein is the danger of generalisation.

My friend no Jew accepted Jesus as the Messiah except his followers.

So that's why I'm asking, how come the Jews called Jesus Messiah when they crucified him according to the Koran.
So U think the Jews will ever crucify their Messiah in whatever circumstances.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by SIRTee15: 2:51am On Apr 04, 2024

Expanse2020:
For him to show you the tawheed in the Quran
Let me asked you what is the meaning of the tawheed?

Tawheed isn't in the Koran. Neither the name nor the definition is in the Koran.
If U claim otherwise. The answer my question
Is the shin of Allah with Allah or separate from Allah?
Is the shin of Allah one with Allah?

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by SIRTee15: 2:25am On Apr 04, 2024*

Qasim6:
Stop deceiving yourself!

Non of the Canonical gospels was written by eye witness.

I can categorically tell U all the synoptic gospels were written b4 70AD. That automatically makes them eye witness account.
That's why the gospel of Matthew was quoted extensively by a book produced btw 60-70 AD- the Didache.
I already gave u the muratorium fragment as evidence the gospel of John is an eye witness account. It's obvious U don't read. That's not my business.

Qasim6:
I believe Matthew did write a gospel, but he wrote in Hebrew. The Matthew we have now was written in Greek and it's forged using Mark and Q.

There's nothing like Q source. It's a hypothetical gospel invented by scholars. It never existed. Most scholars have rejected the idea of Q source as unrealistic.

Qasim6:
I'm telling you, you don't want to go to this 'Quran is a forged book'. It will only expose how ignorant you are of the content of the Qur'an. Cos I will make sure I over choke you with evidence that you won't be able to use that argument again unless if you're dishonest.

If you want to know what forgeries and plagiarism is, check your Bible.

I believe dhu al-qarnayn is Cyrus the Great

Well most of your scholars call him Alexander the great, but it doesn't really matter.
Now give me evidence Cyrus the great acknowledged or worship the God of the Abrahamic faith. I want historical evidence Cyrus ever received instruction from Allah as described in the Koran.

(83) And they ask you about Dhu’l Qarnayn. Say, I will recite to you a record of him. (84) Indeed, We established him in the earth and We gave him, for everything, a means (85) So, he followed a course (86) Until he reached the setting of the sun. He found it setting in a murky spring. And he found near it a people. We said, “O, Dhu’l Qarnayn! Either chastise them or adopt a charitable manner with them.” (87) He said, “As for he who does wrong, we will soon punish him. Then, he will be returned to his Lord and He will punish him with a terrible punishment. (88) As for he who believes and does good works, he will have a beautiful reward. And we will speak to him from our command with ease.”

Qasim6:
Do you know Jesus quoted from Sirach in Gospel according to Matthew, and the Jews consider Sirach to be apocryphal.

Was Jesus quoting a forgery?

Sirach is not a forgery! It was written by Jesus son of sirach in Jerusalem and he claimed authorship over his work he called book of wisdom.
This has been confirmed to be true by scholars. How can that be forgery!!!

Infancy gospel of Thomas and protoevangelium of James were never written by Thomas or James. The books are forgeries.

If U want us to go into why it's deuterocanonical or why it seems Jesus quoted it, I can educate U but that's not the point here.
Sirach is not a work of forgery, ok. He simply compiled Jewish proverbs and wisdom phrases common to Jewish traditions and beliefs, albeit some were his own original works.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by SIRTee15: 2:04am On Apr 04, 2024

Qasim6:
you can't seriously be asking me if I believe people can sleep for 300yrs. This kind of question should be coming from atheist.

I don't believe anybody slept for 300 years. It's all myths and legends.
The story of the seven sleepers is a myth created by Christians in the 4th century to celebrate the resilience of Christians to persecution. The source is unknown, spread around by bishops and monks; and there's no non- Christian source to confirm the story.
Stories of people sleeping for donkey years is quite common in ancient histories and civilisation. There's no evidence anywhere that such ever happened.

They are grouped along with dragons, flying horses,
giants, monsters as golden legends of the ancient
world. That's why we don't have anybody sleeping for donkey years in today's world- it never happened anywhere.

The funny thing is the Jews were not even asking about the story of the seven sleepers from Muhammed when they asked him the 3 questions.

Why would Jews even be asking questions from the Christian faith they regarded as pagan to test the prophethood of Muhammed who claimed he was sent by God. That's common sense.
Jews don't believe Christians worship the biblical God. Why then will they ask questions surrounding Christianity from Muhammed.

He simply gave the wrong answer, in fact he gave wrong answers to all the 3 questions they asked him.
That's why the Jews rejected Muhammed as a true prophet.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by SIRTee15: 1:44am On Apr 04, 2024

Qasim6:
Do you think Prophet Muhammad was forging the Bible when he did not go with Haman as an aide to Persian King and placed him as a chief of Pharaoh?

Do you think he was forging the Bible when he placed mount Judi rather than Mountains of Ararat as the resting place of Noah's ark?

Do you think he was forging the Bible when He did not make mistakes of calling Egyptian kings at the time Abraham and Joseph Pharaoh like the Bible did?

Do you think he was forging the Bible when he made a bold claim that the body of Pharaoh of Moses was preserved, mind you the bodies of the preserved Pharaohs were found in the 18th century.

Debunking lies in the Qur'an

I will like to expose the fraud modern day Muslims apologetics have been doing by distorting historical facts in order to prove the Qur'an is true.

There's nothing true or new about quran. It's a book that simply copied from other sources. Simple.

1. Mount Judi as the resting place of Noah's ark is not specific to Qur'an. The Syriac bible which is the bible used in the Arabian peninsula also mentioned mount Judi- also called qardu as the final resting place of the ark.
In fact Babylonia Talmud states the ark rested on mount judi unlike mount Ararat which is in the book of genesis.

2. Debunking the lies of the preserved pharoah.
When the preserved mummy of ramses 2 was discovered in the 19th century, Muslims apologetics quickly pointed to this as miracle of the Koran where it was stated the body of the drowned pharoah was preserved.

The idea that Ramses 2 was the pharoah in exodus has long been rejected by scholars because there's lack of historical and archeological facts to back this up.

Ramses 2 was one of the most successful Egyptian king and the nation prospered during his reign. His reign was well documented in ancient Egyptian record and there nothing to indicate he had any conflicts with slaves in his kingdom.

Ramses died at 90 yrs. He suffers severe arthritis and had hunchback at the time of his death. It's unlikely someone at that morbid state would have embarked on any military expenditure at his very old age.

His mummy has been thoroughly examined and cause of death has been identified as dental abscess due to a huge hole in his teeth. There's no evidence of fluid in his lungs to suggest drowning or unhealed wounds/fracture to suggest violent death.

The only people pointing to Ramses 2 as the pharoah during the time of Moses are Muslims apologetics. Both Egyptologist and modern historical scholars have rejected the idea and Christian scholars have long abandoned the idea.

The preserved mummy of any pharoah who died of drowning or violent death is yet to be discovered as at 2024.

3. The case of Haman in Egypt.
Presence of Haman in Egypt have long been a big problem for Muslims since the actual Haman in the bible lived in Persia.
In their desperation, Muslims have recently claimed a hieroglyphics inscription mentioned Haman as chief of the workers on stone-quarries . This is a lie. There's nothing of such anywhere except in Muslims apologetics websites. No Egyptologists interpreted any hieroglyphics writings as such.
There's no Haman mentioned in any ancient Egyptian writings. It was a hoax.

Attempts have been made to define Haman as the same person as priest is Amun. The problem here is that Haman in the Koran perished with the pharoah same day in the sea.
We have all the records of the priest of Amun, none of them died a violent death and none died same day as the pharoah.
In fact, the priest of Amun during Ramses 2 outlived the the king and continues to serve his successor.

No matte the lies Muslims apologetics push, we know the Haman should never have been in Egypt acting as nemesis to Israelites. It' s all too convenient that Haman in the Qur'an acted the same plot story as in the bible the exception being change in time and location.

1 Like

Career › Re: Which Of These Two Careers Can Help Me Migrate To The US? by SIRTee15: 1:07pm On Apr 03, 2024

hotwax:
Tech is overrated...everyone is now going into tech.

Go to linked in, once a company posts a tech job, you will see 1,200 people have already applied.

Tech is becoming saturated

And it's finance that's not oversaturated. U think na beans to work for investments firms.
His best bet as a migrant is still tech. The chances of breaking into wall street or any top financial institution is almost zero. That sector is reserved for the la creme la creme of the white male elites. Even ethnic mimority Americans struggle to breakthrough in finance except via affirmative actions, minority quota or u are an exceptional genius.
One of the key to success in global financial world is social skills. How would someone from Nigeria acquire such social skills. Will he be able to even chit chat informally in conference rooms.
Any body can make it in tech so long as U hardworking and diligent. America still issue over 100 thousand h1b visa every year for mainly tech jobs with average salary of 100k.
Let's learn to give pragmatic advise here.

3 Likes 1 Share

Foreign Affairs › Re: Man Receives Formal Warning From UK Government Regarding Social Media Comment by SIRTee15: 8:51pm On Apr 02, 2024

bonechamberlain:

They are all trying to follow the WEF model.

When that evil man Klaus stated that the Chinese model of government is the best, I knew that soonest western countries might start relaxing on some democratic ideals.

If it will bring sanity back to the west, I'm in full support.
Unregulated freedom is nonsense and a gateway to anarchy.
The west is losing it and if nothing is done soonest, we may have another Napoleon or Hitler.
The unrestricted migration is something else. Even 3rd worlders are now looking for alternatives because they dont want to live in Europe filled with migrants.

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Christianity Etc › Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by SIRTee15: 4:16pm On Apr 02, 2024

Ohyoudidnt:
The Quran does not explicitly address the reasons why the Jews wanted to crucify Jesus ('Isa a.s). However, the Quran does reject the claim that they succeeded in crucifying him. Instead, it states that it was made to appear as if Jesus was crucified, but he was not.

The relevant verse is Quran 4:157

The authoroties of the Jews not all Jewish people are not accused specifically of wanting to crucify Jesus because he was their Messiah. It is the case that their rejection of Jesus in Islamic tradition would be more about their disbelief in the message that Jesus brought and perceiving him as a threat to their power and interpretation of Mosaic Law.

Islamic tradition suggest that Jesus came to affirm the Torah and to make lawful some of what was forbidden to the Jews (Quran
3:50), which may have caused opposition among certain Jewish authorities of the time.

Gosh don't U get it. Even Qasim got it.

I'm not interested in why Jews killed Jesus. My bible has the answer.

I'm interested in why the Jews would want to crucify their Messiah.
That's why I'm asking if Qur'an actually understand who Messiah meant to the Jews!!!

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by SIRTee15: 4:10pm On Apr 02, 2024

Qasim6:
Why would I need to dance around anything. I'm holding the truth, you are the one caressing forgeries.

What do you mean by the meaning of messiah? Have you forgotten Hebrew, Aramaic, Arabic are all sister languages.

Do you mean the literal meaning or what is expected of Jesus as the messiah?

The fact that you christains change the meaning to dying and rising man-god does not change the actual meaning.

Is this a joke?
Qur'an that was revealed in Arabic does not know the meaning of messiah?

Then explain when did the Jews acknowledge Jesus as Messiah according to your koran.

Surah 5.72

. Assuredly they have disbelieved who say, "God is the Messiah, son of Mary," whereas the Messiah himself proclaimed: "O Children of Israel! Worship God, my Lord and your Lord. " Whoever associates partners with God, God has surely made Paradise forbidden to him, and his refuge is the Fire. And the wrongdoers will have no helpers.

Christianity Etc › Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by SIRTee15: 2:48pm On Apr 02, 2024

Ohyoudidnt:
Quran 3:45-˹Remember˺ when the angels proclaimed, “O Mary! Allah gives you good news of a Word from Him, his name will be the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary; honoured in this world and the Hereafter, and he will be one of those nearest ˹to Allah˺.

Messiah (Masîḥ) means the “anointed one.” It is used in the Quran exclusively as a title for Jesus Christ.

Jesus is referred to as “al-Masih” multiple times, emphasizing his special status and mission. Surah Al-Imran (3:45) mentions the angel’s announcement to Mary about her son being called al-Masih, a title signifying his anointed nature and special purpose ordained by Allah. Jesus is portrayed as a righteous prophet and messenger chosen by God to deliver his message to the Children of Israel.

Various narrations highlight his miraculous birth, his role in the end times, and his return before the Day of Judgment as a just ruler who will establish peace and justice on earth. The Hadith affirm Jesus’ prophethood, emphasize his virtues, and clarify his position within Islamic eschatology.

Muslims believe in Jesus as a mighty prophet, born miraculously without a father, and endowed with various miracles by Allah. While recognizing him as the Messiah, Muslims reject the Christian doctrine of his divinity or crucifixion. Instead, Islam teaches that Jesus was raised alive to heaven by Allah and will return in the future to fulfill his final mission.

Then explain to me why Jews would want to crucify their Messiah as stated in the Qur'an.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by SIRTee15: 2:38pm On Apr 02, 2024

Ohyoudidnt:
The shin is not one with Allah.

I will say that what is meant by the revelation of the shin is more in relation to the believers than Allah.

In Islam, anthropomorphism, known as “tashbīh” in Arabic, refers to the act of comparing God to created things. This concept is considered a sin in Islamic theology, along with its opposite, “taʿṭīl,” which involves divesting God of all attributes.

The understanding of the nature of God in Islam stems from the Qur’an’s descriptions that on one hand emphasize God’s uniqueness and incomparability to anything imaginable by the human mind, while on the other hand use anthropomorphic language such as attributing eyes, ears, hands, face to God, and depicting Him sitting on a throne and engaging in actions like talking and listening.

Do not contradict yourself.
In one sentence U said anthropomorphism is a sin in islam, yet in another sentence U said all physical attributes of human given to Allah is anthropomorphism. Make up your mind, which is which.

Anyway what I'm asking for is evidence in the Koran that all human attributes of Allah is anthropomorphism.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by SIRTee15: 11:49am On Apr 02, 2024

Qasim6:
Calm down

I wanted to type 'Have you checked the Talmud? '

In the Talmud they make fun of Jesus virgin birth, they reject him as the messiah and maintain he was rightly killed for blasphemy and for practicing sorcery he learned from Egypt.

In addition
a crucified messiah is an oxymoron to them. Because the prophecies about the messiah did not say anything about him getting killed.

U just dancing in circles to avoid the obvious - Koran has no idea what Messiah ais all about.
Running to the talmud won't safe U.

First things first. Show me the meaning of Messiah in your Koran or hadiths.
I don't want your definition and pls don't go to the bible or Jewish texts.
From your Koran, tell me the meaning of Messiah.

Quran mentioned Messiah 11 times, it's gross incompetence to keep using a word or terminology U don't know it's meaning.
Tell me the meaning is Messiah according to the Qur'an.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by SIRTee15: 11:42am On Apr 02, 2024

Qasim6:
A Christian talking about intellectual dishonesty.

If that interpretation is vague to you, then you need to check yourself.

I showed how God putting his spirit on him simply means the chosen servant will be a prophet.

I showed you a Bible verse and a Qur'an verse that attest to that. What else do you want?

Intellectual dishonesty in display. Muhammed has no spirit of God on him
The spirit of God is the same as presence of God. The spirit of God is what depicts his presence.
Do U guys even believe in that, do Muslims believe God can enter his creation?
Be very careful what U defend b4 U leave Islam.

Next passage.

Isaiah 42 2-3
“He will not call out or shout aloud,
Nor make His voice heard in the street.
“A broken reed He will not break [off]
And a dimly burning wick He will not extinguish- He will not harm those who are weak and suffering
He will faithfully bring forth justice.

Let's move
I know Muhammed killed and shed blood during war. But did he do harm during the time of peace. Did he harm the vulnerable or the weak. Was he entirely gentle throughout his ministry.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by SIRTee15: 11:21am On Apr 02, 2024

Ohyoudidnt:
The shin is interpreted metaphorically to represent the unveiling of hidden truths and realities on the Day of Judgment. Alll will be made bare and the insincere will be unable to bow to Allah

In our state on earth we can not fathom, comprehend or describe Allah. HE has no face, shin, head, legs or eyes. He is beyond our imagination.

Show me evidence of anthropomorphism in your Koran.
Yes I agree the shin of Allah is fake thus we humans cannot describe or imagine it. But the fact is he has a shin- whatever the shin is.

My question remain Is that thing called the shin of Allah one with Allah.

Christianity Etc › Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by SIRTee15: 11:06am On Apr 02, 2024

Qasim6:
If anyone is practicing blind faith, then that honour goes to you Christains.

You are the ones that compiled forged books as scripture.

You are the ones that have interpolations in scripture. Like the story of the adulterous woman that Jesus save, 1 John 5:7

You are the ones that believe in a doctrine that was stamped by men (the Bishops VOTED at the council of nicea on divinity of Jesus.) Despite a clear warning from Jesus in Matthew 15:9
In vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.

Tawhid doesn't make sense.

It's a false doctrine never taught by Muhammed and not in the Koran.
Muhammed never attributed the concept of divine simplicity to Allah. He described Allah as a composite being, a god made of up of body parts.
Muhammed never said the entirety of Allah is one, he simply said Allah is one God.
Muslims are the ones going about saying everything about Allah is one, Muhammed never said that.

Muhammed made it clear Allah has a face, 2 right hand, shin and eyes. Allah has a shape and occupies space because he sits above his throne.

Now It doesn't matter if the shin of Allah is real or fake or unlike his creature or unlike anything imagined by humans. The fact is believers will recognise Allah on the last day by his shin whatever the shin is.

So the question remain Is the shin of Allah one with Allah?
No muslim can answer the question.
One of them came here and said Allah is a spirit/invisible in an attempt to fix the problematic Tawhid.
Awon oniro.

If the shin of Allah isn't one with Allah, then I need to know how Tawhid makes sense.

On the last day, Allah will appear to the believers in an unknown shape, they will not recognise him until he shows them his shin, then Muslims will bow and worship Allah.
My question remain, can I worship the shin of Allah?
If I can't worship the shin of Allah, then Tawhid contradict the hadiths.

Muslims should fix Tawhid b4 poking nose into trinity they don't even understand.

Christianity Etc › Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by SIRTee15: 10:50am On Apr 02, 2024

Qasim6:
The writer of Gospel according to Matthew claimed there was a zombie apocalypse after the alleged crucifixion.
Do you believe that really happened or was it just some special effect just to enhance the story?

I already written a out this in the past. I'm not in the mood to repeat myself. Check my post on the thread 'Do God exist'.

We know Matthew wrote the gospel of Matthew because it was quoted extensively in the Didache, a cathetist used Jewish Christians in the mid first century.
And Papias one of the apostolic fathers who met the disciples confirmed Mathew wrote a gospel to the Jewish Christians.

Qasim6:
If you believe that happened, how did the other gospel writers missed that? And why did we not get that story from non-christain historians?

Check the thread. I explained everything in full details.
The other gospel writers also didn't mention the earthquake that occured during the cruxifixion. Now we have scientific and historical evidence that an unusual earthquake did occur around 33-36 AD in
Judea region.

Show me evidence of the wall built by dhu al-qarnayn sealing up people of gog and magog by non Quranic historian.

Qasim6:
I really don't need any historian validation to believe Jesus walked this earth. Qur'an is enough for me.

By stories copied from forged gospel books. U can deny it but the facts are bare.

Qasim6:
How many times do we need to nail it to your heads that Quran is the word of God and not Muhammad's.

Quran is a forged book my friend. A book written by someone who has no idea what he's talking about. It doesn't matter if it's Muhammed or Allah that wrote it.

I will force U to see the forgery in your book by the time we done here.

Tell me who is dhu al-qarnayn and do U believe someone can sleep for 300 years.

Qasim6:
What information do you guys have from the original Apostles and Mary?

The synoptic and John's gospel. because these were written by eye witness. Others are called apocryphal because they are not eye witness account. U are on your own if you choose to swallow the tales in them.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by SIRTee15: 9:53am On Apr 02, 2024

Qasim6:
How many times do we need to nail it to your heads that Quran is the word of God and not Muhammad's

What information do you guys have from the original Apostles and Mary?

You rejected books that were written in 150AD but you believe gospel of John that was written around 110AD, you are a Joker!

Gospel of John was written in the first century, stop confabulating.
Scholars date it to 90AD, no scholar put it at 110 AD.

We know this because the writer John the apostle died 99 AD in his early 90s. He was the youngest of the
disciples of Jesus so it's no surprise he lived into the late first century AD.
How do we know John wrote the gospel of John?
because we have the muratorian fragment that confirmed this.

The fourth Gospel is that of John, one of the disciples. When his fellow-disciples and bishops entreated him, he said, “Fast ye now with me for the space of three days, and let us recount to each other whatever may be revealed to each of us.” On the same night it was revealed to Andrew, one of the apostles, that John should narrate all things in his own name as they called them to mind.

What marvel is it, then, that John brings forward these several things so constantly in his epistles also, saying in his own person, “What we have seen with our eyes, and heard with our ears, and our hands have handled, that have we written.” For thus he professes himself to be not only the eye-witness, but also the hearer; and besides that, the historian of all the wondrous facts concerning the Lord in their order

So the gospel of John is valid because it was written by an eye witness who was a disciple of jesus and confirmed by other eye witnesses one of whom is Andrew- disciple of Jesus.

John 21
24 This is the disciple who testifies to these things and who wrote them down. We know that his testimony is true

Unlike the tales by moonlight such as Jesus talking at birth seen in forged gospels the Qur'an copied. We know they are works of forgery because the authors attributed to the works Thomas and James couldn't have written the book.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by SIRTee15: 11:57pm On Apr 01, 2024

Ohyoudidnt:
In contrast, Trinitarian Christianity posits the existence of three co-equal persons within the Godhead: God the Father, God the Son (Jesus Christ), and God the Holy Spirit. While still maintaining monotheistic beliefs, Trinitarian doctrine introduces a complex unity within God’s nature, encompassing three distinct persons in one essence.

Arianism’s emphasis on the supremacy and singularity of God aligns more closely with traditional monotheistic principles than Trinitarian Christianity, which introduces a triune concept of deity. By highlighting the subordination of Jesus and maintaining a clear hierarchy within divinity, Arianism presents a theological framework that resonates more directly with classical monotheistic views.

Is the shin of Allah one with Allah?
why dont u clarify the confusion with your composite Allah b4 delving into what u dont understand.

Christianity Etc › Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by SIRTee15: 11:39pm On Apr 01, 2024

Qasim6:
Stop embarrassing yourself.

Muslim simply means one who submit to God.
The reason we always claim all Prophets are Muslims.
Except you want to tell me all those people those verses mentioned did not submit to God.

u not answering my question. who was the first muslim? Muhammed claimed he was the first muslim but others has been calling themselves muslims before him. Moses also said he was the first muslim.
So I'm throwing the question at u. clarify the contradiction...who was the first muslim.

Say (O Muhammad): Lo! I am commanded to worship Allah, making religion pure for Him (only). And I am commanded to be the first of those who are muslims (surrender unto Him).
Quran 39:11-12
He hath no partner. This am I commanded, and I am first of those who surrender (unto Him).
Quran 6:163

Moses
When Moses came at the appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he asked, “My Lord! Reveal Yourself to me so I may see You.” Allah answered, “You cannot see Me! But look at the mountain. If it remains firm in its place, only then will you see Me.” When his Lord appeared to the mountain, He levelled it to dust and Moses collapsed unconscious. When he recovered, he cried, “Glory be to You! I turn to You in repentance and I am the first of the believers ”
Quran 7.143

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by SIRTee15: 1:13pm On Apr 01, 2024

Qasim6:
Have checked the Talmud?
They were saying that in a derogatory manner, not that they truly believe Jesus is the messiah

You really don't know what you are talking about.

Of course, U have read the bible and Talmud plus historical knowledge to know it's stupid for Jews to have killed their Messiah.

My friend, show me where it says in your Koran that the Jews rejected Jesus as Messiah.

Abi is this not your Koran affirming Israelites believe in Jesus as the Messiah.

They surely disbelieve who say: Lol Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers.

Messiah was mentioned 11 times in your Koran, no where was it mentioned as a form or mockery or ridicule.
According to the Koran, Jesus was given the name Messiah from birth. That means his mum was meant to call him Messiah while growing up. What absurdity.
I can imagine Mary going about in Galilee telling people the name of her son messiah undecided

I doubt she will last a day b4 being stoned to death for blasphemy.

[And mention] when the angels said, "O Mary, indeed Allāh gives you good tidings of a word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary - distinguished in this world and the Hereafter and among those brought near [to Allāh].

Whoever wrote your Koran either Muhammed or Allah goofed big time about Messiah. He had no idea what Messiah even meant.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by SIRTee15: 12:28pm On Apr 01, 2024

Qasim6:
Here is my servant, whom I uphold

I don't think I need to show you how Muhammad is a servant/slave of God.
You all know how we Muslims pride ourselves as servant/slave of God.
The word translated as servant in that verse "abdi" which is the the same Arabic word abd.

The question is are you christains comfortable with calling Jesus servant/slave of God?

My chosen one in whom I delight

One of the well known title of Prophet Muhammad in Islamic tradition is Al-Mustapha (the chosen one)

He is the chosen one in the sense that He is the seal of Prophethood.

He is the only Prophet sent to all mankind, other prophets before him were only sent to some localities.

I will put my spirit upon him

Ibn Ezra who was a Jewish commentator said This means a 'Prophetic Spirit' which means this chosen one will be a prophet.

Numbers 11:29 But Moses replied, “Are you jealous for my sake? I wish that all the LORD’s people were prophets and that the LORD would put his Spirit on them!”

Q 16:2 He (Allah) sends down the angels with the Spirit by His command, upon whom He wills of His servants: “Give warning that there is no god but Me, and fear Me.”

Q 16:102 Say, “The Holy Spirit has brought it down from your Lord, truthfully, in order to stabilise those who believe, and as guidance and good news for those who submit.”

Stop all these intellectual dishonesty. I'm not interested in any vague interpretation.

There different spirits mentioned in the bible including spirit of wisdom, understanding, knowledge, counsel.
There's also unclean spirit and spirit of evil.

Isaiah 42 is talking about spirit of God. The manifestation of the spirit of God empowers a prophet to prophecy and speak for God.
Go back and read the numbers 11 U quoted starting from v 24.

Then the LORD came down in the cloud and spoke with him, and he took some of the power of the Spirit that was on him and put it on the seventy elders. When the Spirit rested on them, they prophesied—but did not do so again.

The Koranic verses U brought here mentioned a spirit accompanying an angel. Whose spirit? Did it rest on Muhammed?
Angels don't have the holy spirit. They are spiritual beings themselves and bible called them ministering spirits.

The 2nd verse mentioned holy spirit. As far as I'm aware in islam, the holy spirit is angel Gabriel. So don't know how that relates. Isaiah 42 is not talking about angel Gabriel.

Pls bring an explicit statement that said the spirit of God rested on Muhammed. Not someone sending an unknown spirit thru an angel.
One of the problem christians have with Muhammed prophethood is that there's no evidence he spoke to God directly nor did the spirit of God rest on him. So how did he receive his revelations?

We don't have a problem with Jesus being servant of God. Peter confirmed Jesus to be servant of God.
Read about hypostasis union.

Acts 3
13 The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. You handed him over to be killed, and you disowned him before Pilate, though he had decided to let him go.

26 When God raised up his servant, he sent him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways.”

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by SIRTee15: 11:47am On Apr 01, 2024

Qasim6:
I'm sure you did not look up those verses, the least you could do is to look up those verses so you won't embarrass yourself badly.

I know how badly you want to show errors in the Qur'an to save face with the errors of the Bible.

the Qur'an y'all claim was copied from the Bible, somehow avoid the errors there in.
I know Christainity is a blind faith religion, but at least muster some strength to use your cognitive skill once in a while.

Who was the first Muslim according to Qur'an?

Option 1. Muhammed
Say (O Muhammad): Lo! I am commanded to worship Allah, making religion pure for Him (only). And I am commanded to be the first of those who are muslims (surrender unto Him).
Quran 39:11-12
He hath no partner. This am I commanded, and I am first of those who surrender (unto Him).
Quran 6:163

Option 2. Noah
And if you turn away [from my advice] then no payment have I asked of you. My reward is only from Allah, and I have been commanded to be of the Muslims."
Quran 10:72

Option 3. Lot and his family
And We found not within them other than a [single] house of Muslims.
Quran 51:36

Option 3 Abraham
And strive for Allah with the striving due to Him. He has chosen you and has not placed upon you in the religion any difficulty. [It is] the religion of your father, Abraham. Allah named you "Muslims" before [in former scriptures] and in this [revelation] that the Messenger may be a witness over you and you may be witnesses over the people. So establish prayer and give zakah and hold fast to Allah. He is your protector; and excellent is the protector, and excellent is the helper.
Quran 22:78

Option 4. The disciples of Jesus
And when I inspired the disciples, (saying): Believe in Me and in My messenger, they said: We believe. Bear witness that we have surrendered (unto Thee) "we are muslims"
Quran 5:111

Option 5. Moses
When Moses came at the appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he asked, “My Lord! Reveal Yourself to me so I may see You.” Allah answered, “You cannot see Me! But look at the mountain. If it remains firm in its place, only then will you see Me.” When his Lord appeared to the mountain, He levelled it to dust and Moses collapsed unconscious. When he recovered, he cried, “Glory be to You! I turn to You in repentance and I am the first of the believers ”
Quran 7.143

Choose only one option. Note there's negative marking- guessing is frowned upon in theology.
If U don't know, say U don't know

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by SIRTee15: 12:09am On Apr 01, 2024

Qasim6:
Non of the story of Jesus you have is divine revelation, they are forgeries upon forgeries upon forgeries.

Like I said, it's the reputation of the Qur'an that make us trust it 100%

Since we talking of forgery and divine revelation.
I saw this and decided to share.

Christianity Etc › Re: Who First Saw Jesus After His Resurrection? by SIRTee15: 12:03am On Apr 01, 2024

Honestey:
"I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."

Jesus like we believe in Islam is a prophet of God and this is very confirmed by Jesus himself. Stop committing sin of equating him to God for Almighty God(Allah) has no equal. I pray on to you all to find your way into Islam and be true worshippers of Almighty Allah. Peace be on to you.

Besides let's test the monotheistic claim in Islam.
Is the shin of Allah one with Allah?

Christianity Etc › Re: Who First Saw Jesus After His Resurrection? by SIRTee15: 11:35pm On Mar 31, 2024

Honestey:
"I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."

Jesus like we believe in Islam is a prophet of God and this is very confirmed by Jesus himself. Stop committing sin of equating him to God for Almighty God(Allah) has no equal. I pray on to you all to find your way into Islam and be true worshippers of Almighty Allah. Peace be on to you.

Become muslim so that I will now be bowing down to a stone?
Thanks but offer rejected. God hates idolatry and paganism.

Christianity Etc › Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by SIRTee15: 11:26pm On Mar 31, 2024

Ohyoudidnt:
When and where was the Divinity of Jesus established?

The false claim to divinity of Jesus indeed contradicts the principles of monotheism. In monotheistic religions such as Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, the belief in one supreme deity is central. Monotheism asserts that there is only one true God who is to be worshipped and honored above all else. The concept of monotheism emphasizes the oneness and uniqueness of this divine being, rejecting the idea of multiple gods or deities.

since you have joined the legions of muslims apologetics who are experts in gospel exegesis to deny the divinity of christ. explain this passage.

Mathew 22
While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42 “What do you think about the Messiah? Whose son is he?”
“The son of David,” they replied.
43 He said to them, “How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him ‘Lord’? For he says,
44 “‘The Lord said to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
until I put your enemies
under your feet.”’[e]
45 If then David calls him ‘Lord,’ how can he be his son?” 46 No one could say a word in reply, and from that day on no one dared to ask him any more questions.

Ohyoudidnt:
The claim that Jesus is divine or part of a trinity challenges the core tenets of monotheism by introducing a multiplicity within the divine essence. This is a divergence from strict monotheism .

please remove Allah from a monotheist God- the oneness and uniqueness of Allah has been debunked. He failed the divine simplicity test. Allah's oneness and uniqueness is not uniform or homogenous.

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