₦airaland Forum

AbuTwins:
Of course you can stop responding to me. When you look for anything in the Jewish scriptures to prove that Jesus died things that were not believed by the Jews themselves!

Good, the Jews were awaiting the Messiah, that's what the old testament is about. The name of Jesus was revealed as the Messiah in the new testament NOT the old testament.
Looking for the name of Jesus in the old testament is plain idiocy.

AbuTwins:
Where did Jesus call himself so in the Gospels? Jesus didn't appear in Revelations. Probably John was dreaming! And Paul has said Satan masquerades as angel of light! John and Paul were really seeing Satan!

Actually, Jesus never spoke those words while alive and that is clear!

Bible illiterate.
What's the gospel - the good news of Jesus is the gospel. These are words spoken by Jesus Christ.
When U open the New testament scriptures, the words mark in red letters are the gospel. These are the words of Jesus.
These are found in the gospels of mark, Matthew, John, Luke; also the acts of apostle and the book of revelation.

Its your business if U think vision doesn't count. Yet want us to accept the vision of Muhammed as true and genuine. That's serious mental gymnastics in display.
Muhammed never saw any of the patriarch face to face, never saw God face to face. No evidence he spoke to an angel. Everything he gave u guys were his own words.
Have U ever thought he could be psychotic and saying things made up in his schizophrenic mind.

At least people with Paul saw the light and confirmed hearing sound from heaven. They witnessed a supernatural encounter.
Moreover, after the encounter, God sent a prophet named Ananias to open Paul's blind eyes and assure him he's now an apostle of Christ.

U guys don't have anything close to above as evidence of Muhammed's prophethood.
What U have is a violent spirit smashing Muhammad to the ground n a Unitarian Christian called waraka telling Muhammad he's a prophet and promised to teach him the scripture
No eye witness to corroborate the truth about Muhammed. None, if that doesn't sound like a scam I don't know what else to tell U.

AbuTwins:
So Jesus is the only son of man in the Bible?

Jesus is the only person called son of man in heaven

AbuTwins:
So why did the Jews label Jesus a criminal and a bastard if the prophecy was about him?

Pls learn to interpret the old testament and new testament independently. That Jews believed in the Messiah doesn't mean they think the Messiah is Jesus.

Its U Muslims are the ones that merged both together. That's why if I ask U now why is jesus the Messiah in the Qur'an, na another wahala be dat.

AbuTwins:
Abeg no dey mention Revelations to me again as no be dream i dey discuss here! Jesus forgot to mention he was the first and last before them kill am for Bible? Jesus did forgot to appoint Paul too? There are so many things he forgot!

No Jesus didn't forget, the disciple just couldn't handle too many info.
John 16.12
“I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear.

AbuTwins:
How does this mean Yahweh is two or three?
New International Version
Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the LORD out of the heavens.

New Living Translation
Then the LORD rained down fire and burning sulfur from the sky on Sodom and Gomorrah.

English Standard Version
Then the LORD rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from the LORD out of heaven.

YHWH is translated as LORD in English bible. That verse clearly mentioned 2 YHWH. how is that possible? Thought YHWH is one!!!!

AbuTwins:
It is adoni here! Na NT change am! Stop the lie!

You must translate and retranslate to make Jesus God!
You are proving me to be correct!

The Septuagint bible that wrote Adonai as second person in psalm 110 was written 250 yrs b4 birth of Jesus Christ.
So I dont understand the Christian lens U talking about
The writers of the gospel quoted from the Septuagint which rightly said 'THe LORD said unto my Lord'
The Masoretic written 900 yrs after Jesus Christ insisted the word was lord.
So which one was biased and may have been influenced by the Christian lens.
The answer is clear.

AbuTwins:
Must you always tell lies like this? How many visions of God on throne do we have in the Bible?
Are they figurative too?

Go and read anthropomorphism and stop constituting nuisance here.

AbuTwins:
You sabi lie bro, i will give that to you!
You did prove me right sha!
A Christian has to retranslate verses to derive a divine Jesus!

There's actually no verse Jesus called himself God!

Na Exegesis and Eisegesis reward you with the Nicene creed!

Jesus on earth wasn't physically God. Instead he's physically the son of God which means he has the same divinity as in the Father.
That's why I've asking U multiple times- if Jesus is truly the son of God should he be worshipped.
The answer to above question will definitely end this debate.

AbuTwins:
Where was Jesus's name mentioned in the Psalm verse?

If U actually serious about looking for Jesus name in the old testament, then don't mention me again. I'm not here to debate an unserious clown and a time waster.

AbuTwins:
The first of what? The Last of what? The beginning of what, the end of what?

What is reserved for God is “I am the first and I am the last, and apart from me there is no God." Isaiah 44:6 Jesus does dare to call himself God directly or openly until you reinterpret one verse and relate it with what God said somewhere else!

This clown doesn't know Jesus called himself the first and the last in the new testament.


Revelation 22
12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”


I know Allah also called himself the first and the last in the Koran. So my question is why is Allah stealing Jesus divine title?

AbuTwins:
Did Daniel mention Jesus?

Another stupid question. No he mentioned Muhammed.

AbuTwins:
"The metaphor "like the son of man" can only mean Jesus? You really need to be sane! Who is being referred to in the context?

Daniel 7. 13 is a messianic prophesy. Even Jews consider it a messianic prophesy. The son of man described in the passage is the Messiah.
And Jesus was called like the son of man again when John while in the spirit saw Jesus in heaven.

Revelation 1

12 I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and among the lampstands was someone like a son of man, dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. 14 The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. 15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. 16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.

17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

Jesus is like the son of man in heaven!!! confirming what was written in Daniel 7.13
And another verse where Jesus called himself the first and the Last- take note.

AbuTwins:
It does! Na only God be God! Your Jesus dey separate! You worship more than one Gods clearly!

Go and read anthropomorphism my friend. Learn theology and stop talking like an ignorant person.
I leave u with this verse in Genesis to chew on.

Genesis 19.
24 Then the YAHWEH rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from YAHWEH out of the heavens.

Here we can see YHWH on earth calling on YHWH in heaven. So how many YHWH do we have in the old testament?
Remember the Jews who compiled the old testament believe in only one YHWH.

AbuTwins:
Now you brought the Jews into this matter. Do the Jews believe in your Daniel 7:13 verse as referring to Jesus? adoni is used for man of authority not God! Why not comment on this?

The Jews believe both psalm 110 and Daniel 7.13 are both messianic prophesies describing a divine Messiah.
The word adonai is another title for God while adoni is master which is for humans. There's biblical scholarly debate whether the word used originally is Adonai or adoni.
Septuagint our oldest extant bible manuscript written 250 BC wrote it as Adonai meaning another name for God.
The Masoretic text which is the official Hebrew bible written 900AD claim it's adoni- master.
I dont want to go into debate on this adonai/adoni....but the point is the Lord/lord in psalm 110 is referred to as the Messiah by 2nd temple
judaism.
This person cannot be an ordinary human because the passage described him as a king and a priest simultaneously who will reign forever.
He is described as someone after the order of Melchizedek who we know to be a priest forever and has no end or beginning. These are divine attributes.
No matter how U twist it the person sitting on the right hand is a divine being- there's no 2 way about it.
That's why 2nd temple Jews call him divine Messiah.

AbuTwins:
In the new testament the titles has been changed to make Jesus God as usual!


If Jesus sits at the right hand of God them who sits at the left side? Jesus's mother and God's wife?
The sitting room picture should also include Jesus's wife and children too!
You guys won't fail to embarrassingly describe God just like humans fully!

This is your dum.best statement ever. Its like U don't read b4 typing.
Do U understand the meaning of figure is speech at all or we are to assume U didn't have adequate formal education enough to decipher metaphorical statement.
Or should I ask U...did U go to university?
I clearly explained to U what sitting at the right hand of God meant- having same honour and status as God. I even brought a screenshot as evidence.
Yet U came here with literal understanding of the phrase.
God is a spirit, he has no hand and doesn't sit. He's not Allah. Get that right.
That why I told U to go and read anthropomorphism in order understand visions in the bible

NOW SAY AFTER ME, SITTING ON THE RIGHT HAND IS A JEWISH TRADITION FIGURE OF SPEECH MEANING HAVING SAME STATUS AND HONOUR.

That's why the priest and Pharisees were mad when Jesus used that word during his trial. It was blasphemy!!!

Matthew 26

The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.”

64 “You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

65 Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, “He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy. 66 What do you think?”

“He is worthy of death,” they answered.

AbuTwins:
I am not here to answer questions from the Qur'an if i don't want to. The thread is about how Jesus was made God for Christians!
And the truth is that Jesus was made God for you with so many theories and lies around so many Jewish scriptures that are not even related to Jesus contextually that you keep pinning it on Jesus!

🥱🥱🥱 What's my one if U answer it or not.
As if I can't go to surah 42.81 and bring the embarrassing verse her for people to read what U Muslims are hiding.

I will continue to harass U Muslims with that verse until the contradiction of that verse is perfected in your skulls.
That verse is a clear prove your Allah is polytheistic in thinking.
Imagine saying he doesn't mind sharing his glory and divinity with another being if such person actually exist.
Chai....Muslims have been defrauded.

AbuTwins:
OK, David wrote this one! Alright!

Where was Jesus's name mentioned in the Psalm verse?

.

This African countries will just allow world power break cox it for their head.
People don't know the new civil war going on Sudan is actually a proxy war btw Russia and USA over who gets to build military base in that strategic country.

U expelled USA and next thing openly invited Russia, and U expect USA to take it lying low.
African countries are very naive when it comes to global politics. Very naive, very soon they will realise play stupid games win stupid prizes.

AbuTwins:
Do you understand simply English?
What does it mean that scholars contend a matter?

It simply means it is not 100% factual.

Stop presenting what scholars contend as being factual! That's dishonesty and insincerity!

Your attachment said scholars contend this matter!

ARCHEOLOGICAL EVIDENCE OF Awareness OF YAWHEH PRIOR TO ISRAEL BECOMING A NATION.

THIS IS HISTORICAL FACT NOT ASSUMPTION

THE SHAWU OF YHWU

So if Egyptian knew of YHWH, what stops how prophet Muhammed from knowing the name YHWH.

Why didn't he know the name YHWH?

AbuTwins:
Do you understand simply English?
What does it mean that scholars contend a matter?

It simply means it is not 100% factual.

Stop presenting what scholars contend as being factual! That's dishonesty and insincerity!

Your attachment said scholars contend this matter!

I will not allow u hide behind one finger, I will slap U with more evidence. U this TRUTH DENIAL

Scholar contending is an assertion to the evidence they bring to validate their findings. U this educated illiterate. I doubt U wrote any thesis on your life ...reason why U confused by the word contend.

AbuTwins:
I asked who wrote the Psalm verse.

The question is not about who is sitting at the right side of God (which of course brings another argument that Jesus and his father are two not one) but about the word LORD aka YAHWEH and Adoni (lord)!

Stop deflecting!

Its a psalm of David.
Jesus said David was in the spirit when he described what he wrote down in psalm 110. It wasn't like David actually saw LORD with his eyes or had a direct view of heaven.

Visions are revealed in Anthropomorphism. It means what's been revealed is designed to make sense to the human mind.
In visions, Jesus is always distinct from the Father. This is seen in book of revelation where the Lamb of God (Jesus) is seen as distinct from God Almighty. Read revelation 4&5 for context.
Yet Jesus calls himself the First and the last, beginning and the end in Revelation 22, a title reserved only for God.
Also Daniel 7 described ancient of days( God Almighty) giving divinity to who is like the son of man (Jesus).

That YHWH and Adonai are used separately in Psalm 110 or anywhere else in the doesn't negate the concept of trinity.

Psalm 110 is a messianic prophesy. Jews understood it to be a messianic prophesy and the lord- adoni is believed to be the Messiah seated on the right hand of God.

Right hand of God means having the same status and honour as God. This makes [b]the lord [/b]on Psalm 110 a divine Messiah. The Jews coined the term son of God for this divine Messiah.

And that's why I asked the question U running away from...

According to the Koran, if the Messiah is truly the son of God, should he be worshipped.

At least the Qur'an got that right...that's why U are embarrassed by that verse.

U are embarrassed by the truth.

I don't have a problem with the coastal highway project itself. Even if this present administration wants to abandon previous dilapidated highway.

Some mischievous people just want to turn to whole thing tribal and I'm disappointed in the comment of moghalu's wife, very careless and unnecessary remark. To imagine tmrw she will want to parade herself as first lady of Nigeria.

My main issue as with other white elephant project is that it won't be completed in the next 8 yrs n the next govt will abandon it.
Tinubu has shown himself lacking in political will or financial prudence to pull out such feat.
Its a 15 trillion naira project n this wasteful administration hasn't shown any competence since they come on board to convince anyone except sycophants that they can complete that road within 8 yrs.

So what happened to those who paid the price to have the highway constructed. Is that not sacrifice in vain?

This should be the crux of the matter, not that FG is against Igbo people business.

Janosky:
Did your ancient Hebrew website you referenced teach you that LORD is a name of God Almighty?

Your insidious attempt to discredit Ancient Hebrew website won't succeed.

An asking about adonal not YHWH. Why are U bringing evidence of English name for YHWH.

Now back to Adonai, what's the difference btw Adonai and adoni

Ohyoudidnt:
No I don't believe that Jesus preferably Yeshua or Isa a.s is divine.

He however has a special position amongst mankind and with God

But U said earlier he has a divine nature, or U want to back track on your earlier statement?

Is this not what U wrote below....what do U mean when U wrote the screenshot below

Ohyoudidnt:
There's no divinity like God. Jesus is not co-divine with God.

God is the ultimate divine being, unmatched by any other. Jesus, however, is not considered to be on the same divine level as God.

The divinity of God is unparalleled by any other entity and nothing comes close. It is important to note that Jesus is not regarded as being equal in divinity to God.

You have not answered my question.
Is Jesus divine? Does he have a divine nature?
I'm not asking U if he's God, I'm asking if U believe Jesus has a divine nature.

Ohyoudidnt:
Would this not be mankind getting overtly carried away by natural occurrence? Such as an earthquake, eclipse, hurricane etc.?

I see mention of clouds in Exodus? This requirement of a physical manifestation of God only shows adherence to idolatry.

Deuteronomy 4:12 and John 5:37 emphasize that God does not possess a physical body or form that can be seen.

Do U understand what shikenah glory is?
Its the presence of God filled with it's glory. Its an immaterial entity.

Your assertion of idolatry is very funny, coming from a religion that sees bowing before a black stone as worship.

Ohyoudidnt:
.

This is now very interesting.

How exactly did God manifest in the temple before?

Shikenah glory

Ohyoudidnt:
Following this submission of yours does this then imply that the Biblical God allowed people to just worship in the temples in vain pending it's destruction?

Where does this put God's mercy? If his glory departs from the temple in response to man's sin, does this mean that his mercy is lost as well?

Do you imply that before this time there had not been worse or mores sinful acts?

In Islam; Allah's mercy supersedes his anger.

When the believers in Our revelations come to you, say, “Peace be upon you! Your Lord has taken upon Himself to be Merciful. Whoever among you commits evil ignorantly ˹or recklessly˺ then repents afterwards and mends their ways, then Allah is truly All-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” Q6:54

Say, ˹O Prophet, that Allah says,˺ “O My servants who have exceeded the limits against their souls! Do not lose hope in Allah’s mercy, for Allah certainly forgives all sins.He is indeed the All-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
Q39:53



"And [mention] when We made the House a place of return for the people and [a place of] security. And take, [O believers], from the standing place of Abraham a place of prayer. And We charged Abraham and Ishmael, [saying], "Purify My House for those who perform Tawaf and those who are staying [there] for worship and those who bow and prostrate [in prayer].Q2:125

This verse indicates that the Kaaba was established as a place of worship and security for all people. Despite the sins of mankind, the Kaaba has remained a focal point for Muslims around the world to turn to in prayer and unity.

How can your God's glory be driven away by his creation?

The physical manifestation of God in the temple is a privilege not a right.

God doesn't need to the present in the temple to receive worship or forgive sins.
God's presence wasn't physically with Noah or Abraham when they offered sacrificed yet their offerings were accepted.

The nation of Israel was a theocracy with God as the Head. God wanted to be with them physically as a manifestation of his authority over the Israelites.
But for these to happen, the Israelites had to adhere to the constitution given to them by God as a sign of agreement btw the subjects and YHWH.

Unfortunately the Israelites didn't regard the covenant and repeatedly broke the agreement. There was disobedience, rebellion and idolatry. Finally, they rejected God and demanded for a king.

It was only a matter of time the glory of God departs the temple.

This has nothing to do with God accepting their worship. He doesn't need to be in the temple for him to accept their worship.

Emusan:
For them to keep dodging these simple questions means they know what they are actually doing.

No Muslim dare answer the question. I've been asking the question for a year now but no answer.

Instead they answer the question I didn't ask them.

The true response to that question will expose the yansh of Islam as a religion of contradiction.


Any Muslim wants to try....

According to the Qur'an

If Jesus is indeed the son of God, should he be worshipped?
If Allah has a son, should the son be worshipped.

AbuTwins:
Why did you bring what scholars contend here as absolute truth?

Na me suppose tear you slap!

I brought scholars because they have done independent non bias research on the subject of discussion.
So their findings can be used as fact and evidence by all parties.

Now that scholars have shown U YHWH is not a tribal God but well known by his name in other cultures;
Can U tell us why Muhammed didn't know the name of his God.

For thousands of years, different cultures have been calling God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob YHWH.
It's not a secret name, it's a name well known by different people as a deity.
What type of deity, they don't know; but they know YHWH is a deity.

Then tell me why Muhammed didn't know the name of his God. Why didn't Muhammed mention the name YHWH
How come God didn't tell Muhammed his name is YHWH. Did he forget to tell Muhammad OR he told Muhammed but the later forgot.

Which one?
because it's embarrassing for Muhammed to claim he's the prophet YHWH but not to know his name.

AbuTwins:
What are the contexts of those verse?

U asking me for context?
U no get eyes to go and read John 5 yourself.

Go and read John 5 and explain to me how the Jews reach the conclusion Jesus is equal to God.

AbuTwins:
Sound and true knowledge of Scripture indeed!

1. Are you sure David wrote that Psalm cos the last time there was a claim that David didn't write a Psalm verse here.

2. Psalm 110:1
New International Version
Of David. A psalm. The LORD says to my lord: “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.”

In the above there are two people referred namely The LORD (Yahweh) and another my lord (la·ḏō·nî). Now it is common sense that adoni is used for man with authority as master or ruler not God which you claim Jesus was!

For Example in 1 Samuel 24:8, David called Saul his lord (adoni)
Then David went out of the cave and called out to Saul, “My lord (adoni) the king!” When Saul looked behind him, David bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground.

Also Elisha's followers called him lord (adoni) in 2 Kings 2:19.
The people of the city said to Elisha, “Look, our lord, this town is well situated, as you can see, but the water is bad and the land is unproductive.”

Don't worry i know the NT tried to make Jesus God with this one too but the reference from the Old testament is clear on this!

Yahweh is the father!
Adoni is a man with authority not God!
This is busted!

cc: Emusan

What do U understand by sitting on the right hand of God.
That does right hand of God and what does it mean for someone to sit at the right hand of God.
Where will this person sit on the right hand of God- heaven or earth.
So a mere mortal will sit on the right hand of God in heaven!!!!
In case U don't know the judaism regard the passage as refering to the Messiah.
And then verse 4 spoke about being a priest forever on the order of Melchizedek
Islam 110 is definitely not talking about a mortal man.

AbuTwins:
So Jesus is God in Human flesh and yet still worshipped God? Where did Jesus say he has the same nature of God in him?

Does it mean that the father and spirit too can become human and die like Jesus?

Is Jesus coequal with the father and Spirit? If yes, Prove it?

Jesus said I and the Father are one. That's same nature.


Another one...
John 5

17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” 18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but Jesus was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

I will come back later and explain divinity of Jesus and hypostatic union for you.
Its only fair U understand what we believe.
whether U accept or not is up to U.

AbuTwins:
Show me a verse where God Himself said He took human form! It was not God talking in John 1:1.
Jesus was never in Hebrew or all this Colossians and Corinthians you are quoting!

How did you know it was Jesus in the Old testament from the old testament without reading your thoughts into it?

How did he declare himself as God here? The Ego Eimi in John 8:58 is not the same as in Exodus 3:14. And there are many verses that has same eigo eimi but was translated as "i am he".

I think this has been cleared just above! Ego eimi is "i am he" not "i am"!


Was it Jesus talking in John 1:1?

Was it Jesus talking here?



Even after the resurrection he still said he was going to his God to your God!
God does not have another God!

Jesus himself use his mouth to say he was physically present in the old testament.

Matthew 22
41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42 “What do you think about the Messiah? Whose son is he?”

“The son of David,” they replied.

43 Jesus said to them, “How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him ‘Lord’? For he says,

44 “‘The Lord said to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
until I put your enemies
under your feet.”’[e]

45 If then David calls the Messiah ‘Lord,’ how can he be his son?” 46 No one could say a word in reply, and from that day on no one dared to ask him any more questions.


Now Jesus was referring to psalm 110 in this passage and was making it clear David in the spirit saw the Messiah and wrote about him.

I think we will turn this debate into a bible study class for AbuTwin. We will teach him out bible and not the dawahgandist he's been trained to parrot in the mosque.

Here we will give him sound and true knowledge of our scriptures.
Hopefully one day he will join his nairaland Muslim colleague to admit and confess Jesus Christ is divine.

Ohyoudidnt:
From one view maybe but you fail to consider the destruction of the temple in 70 AD by the Romans further changed the practice of worship and sacrifice among the Jews. Without a central place of worship, Jewish religious practices shifted to synagogues and homes, emphasizing prayer, study of the Torah, and acts of kindness as ways to connect with God.

Despite these changes, worship and sacrifice remain central themes in Jewish religious practice. The Jewish people continue to observe traditional rituals such as the Passover seder, Yom Kippur fasting, and the lighting of Shabbat candles. These practices serve as reminders of the importance of faith, community, and connection to God.

The glory of God departed the temple in the time of ezekiel. Malachi was the last prophet who experienced the spirit of God prior to coming of John the baptist.
This was long b4 the destruction of the temple in 70AD.
That was why Jesus Christ never took temple worship serious during his time on earth. The tabernacle was empty.

AbuTwins:
This is exactly what i have been saying. The verses in the old testament did not mention Jesus!
Nowhere in the New Testament did Jesus call himself the creator! Someone will write a statement and it will be attributed to Jesus!

I and my father are one if read in context exposes the meaning as oneness of purpose and not oneness of persons!

You are still interpreting and reinterpreting to derive your Jesus is God!

The verses i stated didn't need any interpretation!
Show us where Jesus said clearly "I am God" or "worship me" or "There's no God beside me"!

Another gbagaun.
I will show U where Jesus said worship me and also where he's called creator in the new testament.

Jesus as creator of life

Colossians 1
15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in Jesus all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him
and for him.

1 Corinthians 8
6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Acts 3
15 You killed the author of life, but God raised him from the dead. We are witnesses of this.

Jesus demands worship.

John 5
22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honour the Father who sent him.

Abu twin has no shame. This is someone who can not defend the Qur'an but denied it. First go and read the Qur'an and answer my simple question

If Jesus is the indeed the son of Allah, should he be worshipped?

Your knowledge of the bible is zero and very embarrassing for a Muslim apologetics. U dont know the bible.
Take this as a sincere advice.

Qasim6:
What is it with the If?
God says he has no son, so why waste your time with the ifs?

Q 21:26
And they say: the Merciful has adopted a son; glorified is He, but they are honoured servants.

The term "son of God" is just honorific title. That's how the Jews understood it, it's the pagan Romans that took the term to another level with Jesus.

Just answer my question. Muhammed put the if question in your Qur'an, not me or any Christian or any non Muslim.

So I don't understand why U Muslims should be ashamed of the question
Why are U guys embarrassed by what's written in your Qur'an.

Answer the question!!!! Its a simple question and the answer is in your Qur'an.


If Jesus is indeed is the son of God, should he be worshipped?
If Allah has a son, should the son be worshipped?

AbuTwins:
You are funny and you made me laugh!

I don't answer "if" questions till it happens!
Especially as this is about the oneness of Allah!
You sound frustrated!

Allah does not have a son!
Neither is Jesus a son but a slave of Allah!
There is no "ifs".

U don't answer if questions BUT YOUR QUR'AN ANSWERED THE IF QUESTION.

YOUR QUR'AN WHICH IS THE MIRACLE OF ISLAM ANSWERED THE IF QUESTION I'M LOOKING FOR

But you here saying U can't answer if question that's already answered in your Qur'an.
Are U greater than the Qur'an?
AbuTwin are U greater than Muhammed who answered the if question? Are U?

Walahi...not only are U ashamed of the Qur'an but you are embarrassed by what's written in it.

Even me I'm now ashamed for U...walahi.

Breaking news...
Abutwins denies the Qur'an: says it's wrong for Muslims to answer if questions.

AbuTwins:

Even in your attached proof it was clearly written scholars contend it.
Nothing can be said with 100% certainty as you are putting it.
YHWH was still specific to Israel.

So I should believe U instead.
Joker.....

AbuTwins:
Your premises is wrong!
Allah begets not nor is He begotten!
Only Allah deserves our worship!

It's obvious U are ashamed of your Qur'an.

U cannot answer a simple question. A question that is already answered in your quran.
Your Koran has the answer to my question but U are too ashamed to say it.

This shows not only are U ashamed of the Qur'an but U are embarrassed by what's written in the Qur'an.

I will report u to your colleagues... Ohyoudidn't, expanse, Qasim6, antichristian

Your friend here Abutwins is embarrassed by what's written in the Qur'an.
I have asked him a question lifted from the Qur'an but he's too ashamed of the Qur'an to answer it.

A Muslim who is ashamed of the Qur'an cannot be called Muslim. He's left Islam.

AbuTwin redeem yourself and answer my question. Look into your Qur'an and give me my answer.

If Jesus is indeed is the son of God, should he be worshipped?
If Allah has a son, should the son be worshipped?

Answer the question.

AbuTwins:
You're spilling falsehood! All those cultures have their language representation for the supreme being!

And how will YHWH that was never pronounced be understood by others outside Israel?

You're just bragging upon ignorance!

I've never seen an obstinate ignorant fellow like yourself. Your knowledge is wack yet U refuse to learn.

I will disgrace u with facts today U won't have the confidence to debate bible anymore.

Now on YHWH, I will show U both biblical and scholars evidence that YHWH is well known outside of Israel even b4 the later became a nation.

Biblical evidence

Egyptians (Exodus 1-15): The Egyptians are called to “know that I am YHWH” throughout the plague narrative, showing they knew of the deity.

Jethro (Exodus 18): The Midianite father-in-law of Moses knew YHWH. Jethro was a Midian priest who acknowledged the mighty of YHWH and mentioned his name multiple times on the book of exodus.

Balaam (Numbers 22-24): Balaam recognized the power of YHWH, had direct encounter with him and mentioned his name when giving his supplications.

Caleb (Num 32:12): The great hero of Judah was a Kenizzite, one of the Canaanite tribes (Gen 15:19).

Gibeonites (Joshua 9): The Canaanite town of Gibeon employed deceit against Israel, but perhaps had some measure of faith in YHWH

Jael (Judges 4-5): The killer of Sisera was a Kenite, a tribe of Canaanites who knew YHWH by name. (Gen 15:19)

Scholars evidence is highlighted below with links...

To say YHWH became known after Moses is intellectual laziness.
If anything modern scholars believed YHWH was introduced to Israel by the Canaanites and a Semitic nomad tribes called Shashu in the levant region.

People had known YHWH long before there was a nation called Israel, they just don't know him well and worshipped him in the midst of polytheism- amongst other gods.
Abraham was the first person to worship YHWH as a monotheist- post the flood era. That's why he's called father of faith.
God called him out in the midst of polytheism civilisation to start a journey of monotheism- worship ONLY YHWH.

AbuTwins:
1. God does not need a son or helper in His dominion as He is All-Powerful to do all things!
2. Only Allah (God, the creator of All) alone deserves our entire worship!
3. God does not become man!
4. God does not debase Himself. He is at all times greater than all His creations!

I will repeat this important question just in case U pretend to miss it.

My question is based on what's written in your Qur'an.

If Jesus is indeed is the son of God, should he be worshipped?
If Allah has a son, should the son be worshipped?

Answer the question.

Ohyoudidnt:
Jesus' teachings and actions brought about a shift in the way early Christians perceived sacrifice and worship, yet he did not completely eliminate the traditional methods of worship.

His teachings and actions of sparked a significant change in the understanding of sacrifice and worship among early Christians, while still acknowledging the importance of the existing worship practices.

Early Christians experienced a transformative shift in their perception of sacrifice and worship due to Jesus' teachings and actions, without completely discarding the traditional modes of worship..

My friend sacrificial offering was discarded. Who are we offering sacrifice to? A God that already departed the temple.
So who's accepting your sacrifice. Those who continue to sacrifice now practice paganism.

AbuTwins:
So what language is YHWH? The term "YHWH" is a representation of the name of God in the Hebrew Bible, often referred to as the Tetragrammaton. It is a sacred name used to refer to the God of Israel. The Hebrew language, including the name "YHWH," was specific to the Israelites and their religious practices.

YHWH is Semitic, a word shared amongst people who speak the LEVANTINE languages.
Canaanites and Edomites also called God YHWH but they don't speak Hebrew.
The writing of YHWH or even it's vocalisation may differ by culture but the pronunciation and what it meant is the same.
Even ancient Egyptians likely knew of YHWH by evidence of inscriptions resembling YHWH on their walls- a deity called YHWU.

Just like mama and Baba are words for father and mother shared by hundreds of languages in the west African region and even in the world.

My friend study hard. This place is not a joke. If U are not prepared to critic the bible don't start.
Your knowledge of the bible and it's history is very shallow.

AbuTwins:
The actual dishonesty is not being able to use your brain!

What language did Adam speak?

No one really knows but the best that can be guessed is that he spoke an ancient semitic language related to Hebrew but may not be precisely Hebrew!

YHWH is Hebrew!

There is no conclusive proof Adam spoke Hebrew so how could he have known God as YHWH?

YHWH IS NOT HEBREW.
ANCIENT LEVANTINE KNEW OF A DEITY CALLED YHWH.
YHWH is well known to Edomites, Canaan, Paran and Seir. These people never spoke Hebrew.

AbuTwins:
He did name that in whatever language he spoke!
Abraham spoke a semitic language of which Hebrew is one!

There's no evidence Abraham specifically spoke Hebrew!

YHWH is not Hebrew but Semitic.
Archeological Evidence abound which shows YHWH as a deity is known in ancient mesopotamian region. He's just not well known until Abraham came on stage.
YHWH IS YHWH, the name has no alternative in any ancient language.

As at the time the author of genesis was writing, that place was already known as Jehovahjireh meaning YHWH the provider.