₦airaland Forum

OAM4J: The argument for development without oil is another topic on its own. Suffice to say not few people believe that oil that should have been a blessing has turned out to be a curse considering the fact that we were developing well without oil before the discovery of oil and other nations we were ahead of then that didn't discover any oil have since gone ahead of us in terms of development.

But as far as this thread is concerned, looking at OP's argument, it is erroneous to say oil is Nigeria major source of income, or that majority will not survive without oil.

Major source of income for Nigeria, not necessarily for Nigerians. Without oil Nigeria in its current economic set up is going to be in very serious crisis and would barewly survive (if it does).

manny4life: Exactly!

@OP, WRONG, Oil is the major source of revenues for Nigeria, if Nigeria doesn't earn money from oil, Nigeria can't pay her bills. This is totally different from it's economic contribution.

Definitive statement of thread.

OAM4J: The OP argument is correct in the context he puts it. Oil is a major source of income for the government not for the overall Nigerians. But when you understand the fact that the Government does not pay 10% of its whole population's income and service needs then you understand that majority of Nigerians do not survive with oil money i.e oil is not the major source of incomes of Nigerians (OP's argument)

We can argue that oil is the major source of foreign income to Nigeria but that does not mean majority of 150million Nigerians survive on oil or will not survive without oil.

Of course Nigerians can survive without oil, people from Niger republic do. But are we going to be able to sustain the rate of development we currently experience? Absolutely not, not even close. Very few industries in the country are any were near properly developed because of this sustained laziness of the past decades. When government can start sustaining itself with less than twenty percent revenue from oil then we can talk. Saying you can survive is not a compliment, ideally you want to prosper. What I really know is why government doesn't try to aggresively increase its revenue from other sectors.

VoodooDoll: On a per capita basis the oil rent seekers are richer than the agriculture workers, that is obvious. But on a total economy basis then agriculture is bigger.
Bear in mind that agriculture includes a vast array of things. Insults withdrawn as not deserved.

But it is not really about that. Agriculture currently contributes very little to development and that is the simple truth. If a road is built in your hometown or homecity in MOST parts of Nigeria, there is a much higher probability it was funded from oil than agric, and that is the truth (of course the percentage will vary from state to state). The argument will only hold water if we started getting more taxes (directly or indirectly) from the agric sector. People might be earning a living from agric, but what is bringing them infrastructure isn't that.

VoodooDoll: Oil revenue is a source of fx and is what the lazy govt and its Psycophants are dependent on.

However agriculture is the major employer and main contributor to Nigeria's economic output.

Our GDP is being rebased, according to NOI, and once this is done the GDP should "rise" from under $300bn to around $400bn. Most of that "increase" will not be oil related as oil's addition to GDP is easily ascertainable.

Only buffoons will think that 160m people live off oil alone, especially when the value from oil is captured by the IOCs, Govt and their lackeys.

Let us not turn our backs to the truth. You raise valid points (especially the part in bold) but the truth is most of the infrastructure around the country has been built by oil. The money has not been used as efficiently as it could have been but let us not lie to ourselves. Until we restructure our economy and government starts collecting taxes, that is the way it will remain. Agric did not build Abuja. In Nigeria very little outside the Agric sector benefit from Agric.

shymmex: Liars getting roasted by economists..

Beaf, go create some fun pics, slowpoke. bwahahaha

I don't think you are still getting what you posted up there really actually means. Firstly let us correlate this with development. Government earns very little from the Agric sector, in fact government (state and federal) funds the agric sector with income it gets overwhelmingly from oil. Again, Nigerians do not pay tax, we don't even really pay VAT because of how significant the informal economy is in the country. Nigeria is a country where development is still heavily driven by government so the point above is actually an important point and a big deal.

40% GDP aggregated to the agricultural sector simply put, means more people(or a larger chunk of the earning of everyone) comes directly from agriculture than oil, which makes sense since there is so much arable land in the country. What should alarm you is that oil accounts for as much as it does.

Second point, with the way Nigeria currently is, if there is an increase tomorrow in GDP from agriculture, it most likely would translate to more people getting involved in the sector which is not as good a picture as you might think when you analyse what this means. Agriculture in Nigeria is still very heavily subsistence based, there is very little industrialisation (which is what grows the country). The more mechanised and efficient this process becomes, the less number of people would make their living directly from agriculture - does not have to but would very likely mean some decrease in GDP from agric (and if we don't import equipment and actually manufacture then this means increased GDP for manufacture)

Linked to the second point, an increase in GDP in say the agric sector means there is a bigger pie to eat from not that one section of the pie has gotten bigger at the expense of the other which you wrongly deduce.

What people found audacious about your comments is a lack of understanding of the above considering the state Nigeria currently is in. Your postulation is VERY simplistic, and the comment about 'teaching a sector of the country' about such things even more funny since that section also earns a significant chunk of GDP from agriculture too. Agriculture is NOT what has brought development in Nigeria in the past 3 decades. It has allowed people make a living, but it has contributed very little to the resources (money) used to fund development.

shymmex: Abuja and looting takes the highest chunk of the oil revenue, most states don't really need to depend on oil to survive, if they stop being lazy..

That's more reason why we need to reduce our dependence on oil..

States like Lagos, Sokoto, Anambra, Imo, Ogun, Oyo etc. can survive without oil if they look inwards.

Wrong! Even Anambra that claims to have the lowest unemployment rate is dependent on oil derivation. Most states ARE dependent on oil derivation. You are talking of how you will like things to be, not what partains now. Only at the very most 2 or 3 states can survive without oil derivation as things currently stand (lagos being one because they actually collect tax). No need to beat around the bush with this issue and don't be mistaken. As things currently stand, Nigeria is very heavily dependent on oil (and this is not hyperbole). We have a state welfare oil gravy train the way things stand. Does it have to be that way? No. Is it that way? YES.

PapaBrowne: Really. Wish you knew economics better. Where do people get the money to buy the Agricultural Produce?? If there was no oil money, how would Government pay 3 million civil servants who would in turn buy Agricultural produce??

The GDP component doesn't equate to capacity to survive. Agriculture constitutes 40% of the economy because people have to consume. However that consumption can only be made possible if there is the financial resource to back it up. That Financial resource would come from production that is sold externally. The structure of economics is complex such that a except value is added and Agro products are made competitive for exports, the GDP size of Agriculture would be nothing but a huge burden.


Let me put it in layman terms. Imagine a Family of 10, each with equal production capacity. Assume 6 of the family members are all craftsmen that make art pieces. It would be safe to say that 60% of that Family's GDP constitutes Craftmanship. Now Imagine those art pieces cannot be sold outside of the family?? Of what value is it?? Zilch! Infact the only reason oil is a ohur bastion is because of its external value. As Agriculture stands today in Nigeria, it cannot survive any region with the produce being exported.

You beat me to it. The post does indeed shows some lack of understanding. I don't even remember anybody ever claiming oil takes the largest chunk in our GDP. However, considering Nigerians hardly pay tax, it does definitely account for a huge chunk of the money government has to spend on running itself and capital expenditure projects (like Abuja). How many state governments can even survive without oil? Again, Nigerians don't pay tax.

Well done channelstv

IS THIS FOR REAL??!!!!
WOW! . . . . Embarassing.

I think Lawan's lawyers might have anticipated a leak, that is why they kept on going on about "doctoring of evidence" for a case a man confessed to already.

It is very tempting, in fact I want to see the video and all the evidence. But if we are to do this properly then he should be arraigned in court, eveidence given there in front of the media and public attendees there, and the proper process followed to set a good precedence.

And besides since when did somebody who allegedly confessed to taking the bribe, said he gave the money to a man who disowned him have any right to even try and claim a moral high ground? Who is he daring? It is only in Nigeria that a confessed crook still has this audacity I swear. He has already damaged his reputation and with very little help from anybody.

By the way if police don't have the recordings of these confessions the IG should be made to answer. No more letting off crooks due to incompetency or complicity of the authorities.

Still want to see the video though . . . . . LOL.

If this is true then the list in that subsidy report has just been completed. Find out all the companies that paid bribes and complete the list. Simple. And the police should stop being afraid to use strong hand on politicians, if it was ordinary civilians now they would become overzealous. Just slap the man a few times and show him scissors, he will crap his pants and confess, Nigerians are cowards.

On a more serious note, this is more of a law enforcement issue and the house is not a law enforcement body. The focus of the house of assembly should shift back to fuel subsidy probe and report been done properly, since they have shown in the past that they are poor at multi tasking I'd rather they focus on one thing at a time.

stormm: @Sky blue,

You've not said anything different. Only you offered an explanation on your disagreemnt whereas others worked from the answer

I am not even sure you know my disagreement so don't quite know what point you are trying to make. I am saying that I do not completely disagree with him and think there might be a little danger in misunderstanding what he is trying to say or reasons for saying them (if I have it right). Just don't think PDP have the mandate to change the constitution, that's all. If they did and there was some public consultation then I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with this approach. Or if we are being radical, completely take it out of the hands of politicians (like icelanders are doing).

I wish people thought about this issue a bit more before rejecting in totality all that has been said, especially if you have even a basic insight into how the house of reps currently operates. We have all been crying about how the constitution was bequethed the Nigerian populace by a military regime. We have always whined about how some basic fundamentals of the constitution need to be reviewed. We keep shouting federalsim. I don't think many would disagree to a constitutional review, but I would personally like one without all the bureacracy and unecessary politicking which though perhaps inherent in a democracy, can be exacerbated when you have a more complex make up of the house of assembly, ultimately leading to a lot of foot dragging (even on issues we can all agree on simply to score cheap political points).

This is the main reason I reject this man's call. PDP does not have the political mandate to review the constitution because PDP does not have a unifying vision which peple voted for. What are PDP values? So how can we give sole control to the shaping of our national constitution to a party we don't even know what they stand for? And that to me is the main issue. Regardless, a revision of the constitution isn't a new call we are just hearing, we have talked about this before. It would be good to do it without unnecessary politics though. If a majority party capable of affecting change could somehow consult with the people and get consensus ideas to basic tenets for the document, then I would be willing to consider this approach of just doing it. Look at how Iceland drafted (and are drafting) their new constitution. VERY INTERESTING. The public is actually participating, not just some four or five men in a room.

But then, is it the most pressing issue right now? Maybe not, considering we don't even enforce the good laws we currently have.

mrrock: Listen fellow Nigerians!.

If at the end of this whole drama Farouk is not Jailed then you owe no loyalty to any fcking country called Nigeria. Stop complaining!. Do yourselves a favour by being as corrupt as you can until such a time corruption becomes punishable in Nigeria (not likely though).
Nigeria is going nowhere!.

I genuinely understand the sentiment because we can't keep having on set of laws for one set of people and another set of laws for the rest. But what I will say though is that if Farouk doesn't end up in jail, it is the fault of Nigerian people. Because to me after years of this nonsense it would prove an insult too far. How can somebody confess to taking bribe and walk free? At least before there used to be an attempt at lying but if this goes without any serious punishment then I really don't know where we go from here. So to me it's make or break (along with fuel subsidy) but sometimes you get the feeling you are the lone voice in that reasoning . . . . I am definitely tired of the insult on sensibilities. If Nigerians don't demand justice then they deserve none.

If Farouk walks free it is SQUARELY on the head of the police. Period. They have the authority so why are they still using kids gloves on congressional members? This is a simple criminal case, someone took bribe and even confessed, and now they are begging him to return the bribe money? We should learn whose head to apply pressure to.

Ita Ekpeyong (Director General of SSS)
Mohammed Abubakar (Inspector General of Police) because the police has handled and is handling this issue very poorly.
Mohammed Bello Adoke (Attorney General of the Federation) because he is meant to be defending the law on behalf of a government we elected

These are the people we should be protesting at not house of assembly. This is a criminal case. Any possible protest at house of assembly should be about oil subsidy report or legislation.

Dis Guy: Wake me up when the FG recovers the money and prosecute the crooked importers

That is the minimum that can be done. How did it even happen to begin with?

Chanchit: Now it has showed that paying for the subsidy is not the real problem, the real fraud stars, headed by GEJ are the main problem..
Who r they protecting..? Let them release the names of the companies, and also return the fuel prize to its formal prize, since the scheme is to embezzle...

There are huge discrepancies to account for definitely. Should we be pushing for accountability and prosecution of all found complicit? Absolutely YES.
However at the same time you have to also try and be consistent. What on earth do you mean by "return the fuel prize to its formal prize"? What formal 'price' are you talking of? You know that the price Nigerians pay for fuel is not the real price, right? We need to be clear on what we want, reducing how much we spend on that fuel subsidy, tackling corruption in the oil sector, or both. Because if it has anything to do with reduction of funds spent on fuel subsidy then you would know that one way of doing that is the removal of the fuel subsidy completely, so we don't have to even be talking about this issue in the future apart from prosecuting past thieves. Are Nigerians ready for this?

CHIDI EJIOGU: The point still remains that no one has been able to prove that madam deziani is linked to anything that will warrant her to be removed.
The fact that you head an organisation that is already corrupt does not mean that you must be included the corrupt.

But when corruption contrinues to thrive, it doesn't inspire confidence either that you are capable of dealing with the corruption issue in your leadership capacity of that organisation, does it?

[quote author=al-ahamad]Ur a small fry nd I don't have typing space for die-hard GEJ shyt-boxes like u.....

Maybe you were still in dipers not to have known that electricity supply was far better back then compared to now...

Shege bunsuru dan Akuya...[/quote]You lied, you were caught out. Stop embarassing yourself further. Electricity supply has not significantly changed overall in the country for the past decade. Again, you don't have to lie to make a point. Of course you cannot respond to this with facts because you were caught up in a nursery school lie.

[quote author=al-ahamad]As for you ....PRO retardeen media office.
Even if Abacha nd his cabal were wicked enough to build refineries outside and be the only ones importing product, the most important thing is that the people are not sufering the effect of such wicked act....unlike the present
wicked X Devilish = GEJ
The economy can be in the highest trouble for all I care but the comon man had light, food prices where regulated and business was possible.
There was hope but just within a year, one single administration stole what could feed 10 african nations for a long time without blinking.....dude do you know what it means to waste $20billio u s d

b[/quote]Who had light? Do you think you are speaking to nursery school children here? When people lie can they at least try to do it properly, this is just getting utterly ridiculous. Have you no shame? In this fourth republic, prices have gone up for every successive year. Heck inflation has been a serious problem since Babangida. So what are you talking about? Spin another yarn. There are many holes one could pick with this administration but you comparison is utterly absurd.

Interesting news. Important to note though, that the only step that will seal any measure of confidence as far as I am concerned is succesful prosecution of all found complicit (sucessful enough to evoke maximum sentences for the crime). We have heard it all before. I am willing to give them a week to see if they will pursue this route properly since the house does not seem to be taking this issue seriously.

On a side note, can someone please inform me what our AGF has been doing please. Adoke, what have you been doing? ?

ochukoccna: Sacking the board is not simply enough
Will anyone found culpable be prosecuted?

I might have missed it but I don't believe they said they were sacked because of complicity in corruption. Unfortunately, incompetency does not always imply complicity. A history of their activities should be looked into though. Too much corruption in the NNPC with shiploads of oil going missing everyday. According to certain reports Nigeria loses $1billion worth of oil to theft everyday.

Ngwakwe: Why were the Oil Cabals against D. A. Madueke appointment as Petroleum minister?

Who among those that have held any portfolio in Oil and Gas sector you know that was better than her?

Buhari?
OBJ- Petroleum minister for 8 years?
Who?

If you as a Nigerian cannot accommodate her as Petroleum Minister (she is the devil we know for now and is better than those angels out there that are yet to be tested),

Don't like her, go and commit suicide.

Just a point to make. The only time people can be relieved of their position should not be limited to only when they have a corruption case to answer. Issues to do with possible bad fit for the role, incompetency, and sometimes even a lack of confidence by the share holders (in this case Nigerians) which can prove distracting. Such factors should also be enough to consider replacing the person with someone who can do the job and inspire confidence. Now with regards to Madueke in particular, I await to actually see what concrete reforms she is starting in the oil industry. So far, I am not very confident in her performance (but I can say the same for a majority of the ministers). Now does she have a case of confidence to answer? I would not take Nairaland as a statistical reference, but for little me she does.

alj harem: Bros you funny oh. Too much grammar, I no go school oh so take am easy.

1. As I explained earlier, there are categorises of anti-GEJ people. The category of discussion here is those that want a better Nigeria.

2. You talk of them being same coins of different sides and I AM TELLING YOU NO !!! A pro-GEJ would always justify irrational decisions even though he clearly knows it is extremely illogical to do. For example, I remember BEaf who happen to be a die-hard GEJ fan justifying the reason why Nigeria does not have a refinery. Explain why we should wait for the private sector to do so while Nigerian/Nigeria lose billions of dollars, export millions of jobs etc based on this fact. It is indeed a known fact that we are a laughing stock of the world but pro-GEJ ppl would justify that.

3. Have you seen anyone here being pro-GEJ or Anti-PDP not justifying their position before ? and even so, have you asked them why ? The issue that arise this decision was my reply to Mallamabdul (a namesake) and I have been following his post but this particular one got my attention when he was talking about (bolded)



If he was a non-biased poster of which he is not, he should have been following the Allison Madueke story on the fuel subsidy and money etc and can connect the dots. That was the same way we know that Tinubu is a thief, that was the saem way we know that IBB was a thief, nothing excludes Allison from that.

BTW, thanks for the compliment . *I think it is a compliment*

You have completely missed the point and your response has addressed very little (to be rather generous). Calm down and read again. You never know, you just might get it. The bolded parts are a selected few parts in your post I find utterly laughable. Ssuch a generous soul - even telling us what to and what not to think to fall into these priced categories. To each his own I guess. Whatever you are comfortable telling yourself.

[size=5pt]There are categories of 'anti Jonathan' (but of course not 'pro Jonathan') - how very objective of you.[/size]

alj harem: I am sorry but you did not ask a direct question and there is no direct answer to your question. Same side of the same coin is the wrong why of phrasing things. Those that are anti-GEJ on this site are in 3 categories of which the majority of us just want a better Nigeria and GEJ is NOT pushing us towards that direction. Thus you cannot categorise them as the same.

Shooting everything down is another wrong way of wording things because everything is WRONG WITH NIGERIA at the first place from the way we vote to the way our politicians think and implement policies. Thus if that is shooting everything down, then so be it and those that do it are rightfully justified but still a wrong why of wording things.

Your response is more revealing than you think. First of all if you "want a better Nigeria" it is not about being 'anti Jonathan' or 'pro Jonathan' but being pro good governance. And the fact that you feel the need to categorise into such arrangements says it all. You are making certain assumptions. The first obvious one being that people who are 'pro Jonathan' as you put it, cannot possibly also be pro good governance; but of course people who are 'anti Jonanthan' though not necessarily 'pro good governance', have the potential to be such (how very generous of you). Your attempt at objectivity is laughable.

By the way, sorry to disappoint you but I do not fit into one of the categories you took the liberty of fashioning for us all (how generous of you). I want good governance. The good thing about that is I am able to justify or at least attempt an explanation of my positions whatever they may be for varying issues (which fair enough not everybody is going to agree with). And that is the difference. And you are right, you couldn't answer what were three simple questions because you did not like the answers you came up with and what it might have said about you.

Irrationality is irrationality, whether pro or anti Jonathan. None of them do us any good and are different sides of the same coin (always quite amusing how one particular side always tries to claim the moral superiority over the other). Because in all of it we lose objectivity and constructive inputs which can potentially send government a message or feedback from its citizenry on what direction we want. Now tell me, what direction does pro or anti Jonathan irrationality send us? Is it a direction you are happy with this country moving in?

alj harem: Another question for you, anyone obsessed with any Nigerian politician with no track past record or present should be considered ration ? C'mon where is your objectivity here.

I am yet to see a madly anti-GEJ person apart from Gbawe, 1025. Of which I am yet to see them form another ID to defend their position unlike Pro-GEJ ppl.

It makes no sense, in fact is so stu.pid I wish Nigeria can break up and so of us can call our government to order without the fear of being called names.

That is the way some of us think

With regards to the part in bold, and you know this how? In fact, never mind, ignore that. Try to stay on topic here. You made a statement which I challenged you on. Don't ramble of course. Very clear and straightforward questions. Just a challenge to a double standard.

Sky Blue: Question for you. Is being "madly pro-Jonathan" now the benchmark for irrationality and if it is what do we call the 'madly anti-Jonathan'? And in all of this, where is objectivity? As far as I am concerned both are different sides of the same coin.

Or is shooting down every single thing now the new fad and hallmark of a "progressive"?

[size=5pt]The kind of trite one has to read on nairaland sometimes. . . .[/size]

Think about it. But I am not going to go into an unnecessary back and forth with you.

alj harem: what part of the north central are you from ? Kogi ko ? Which ethnicity because I observe that you formed your login 5 days ago and also madly pro-GEJ suggesting you are one of the ret.ards on this site.

right or wrong

Question for you. Is being "madly pro-Jonathan" now the benchmark for irrationality and if it is what do we call the 'madly anti-Jonathan'? And in all of this, where is objectivity? As far as I am concerned both are different sides of the same coin.

Or is shooting down every single thing now the new fad and hallmark of a "progressive"?

[size=5pt]The kind of trite one has to read on nairaland sometimes. . . .[/size]

Exponental: Who woke GEJ up?

Would like to know the same. Just going to cautiously watch to see the different facets of this.

Bold move! Interesting. I like the fact that seats seem less safe when compared with previous dispensations where the same set of names were simply reshuffled if moved at all.

FSU: Rather a dog than any northerner or Tinubu. Northerners have ruled for 35 out of 50 years. They have nothing to show for it
GEJ is incompetent. But he is going to be better than any northerner and Tinubu

Fasola is okay but should wait for the next Yoruba turn

Nobody is anybody else's slave in Nigeria.

As of today, right now, this very instance, IF Fashola declares (and its between him and Jonathan) I will probably not only vote for him, I will campaign for him as well. Wether Jonathan's so called "reforms" pay off is yet to be seen, hopefully for the sake of Nigerians they will. And anybody who wishes him to fail does not have good intentions for Nigeria

What I am strongly against though is this whole regional politicking "this zone is meeting with this zone", "it is this zone's turn" trite. Because all that has produced so far is division and mediocre candidates. There are more than 6 ethnic groups in Nigeria so unless we are prepared to rotate among ALL ethnic groups, the very idea that zoning somehow brings equity should be consigned to the dustbin. People talk "equity equity" and yet still don't really understand what it means. I advise the citizenry to explore the very fundamentals because without that equity you WILL NOT sustain peace. Just give us a performer and decentralise power from Abuja, that is all we ask!!

jumobi1: I think I might run for president. If my opponents are GEJ and Tinubu and Nigerians are not stupid then I should win. Why do we have pathetic options during elections?
We need a fresh face.

My sentiments exactly. If the opposition don't field an achiever the whole thing is a non starter. Can we for once have an election where we don't have to choose "between the devil and the deep blue sea"? The opposition remains a problem in Nigeria and not a solution. How does regional politicking unite a nation in a time when things are falling apart at the seams? WAZOBIA politics is no longer going to cut it in Nigeria. The very idea is insulting and offensive.