₦airaland Forum

Ujujoan:
I could easily quote you saying 'Tunde Bakare did not say God asked him to run' . . . .  and I'll be right . .  even though you never actually used those words! 

Just as you can't stand junk press, I can't stand silly arguments! 

WOW. How hard is this? Show us in the article where Tunde Bakare is quoted as saying God told him to run with Buhari or anything to that effect. Is that so hard a task? I have even provided you a link to the interview (http://pmnewsnigeria.com/2011/02/01/bakare-god-told-me-to-run-with-buhari/) because press associations do share their reports and resources. Please show us where Bakare said God told him to run with Buhari.

Ujujoan:
This is not 'paraphrasing' . . . this is a general interpretation of his statement. He (Bakare) said cannot deny not insisting to have gotten God's permission before running from the comments he made!

The man is phony abeg . . and the fact that he's using God's name to further his political ambition will land him in serious trouble! I pity him!  

Interpretation according to who? So allowing someone to go out is the same as telling them to go out? Can't you read for yourself and make up your own mind or are you that gullible especially for (of all things) the Nigerian press? I am not going to go into a completely unneccesary back and forth, simply redeem yourself by highlighting where the man said in his speech that God told him to run with Buhari. I have provided you with extra link sef. Or is it so difficult? How much junk news have we read from Nigeria? The headline of the article (which I provided) sayd Bakare claims God told him to run with Buhari, and there is not even one quote to that effect? This goes beyond Bakare, this is simply about press integrity. Please! I can't stand junk press!

Ujujoan:
Are you still confused   

Meanwhile, I can't wait to hear what 'God' will say when the lose! 

Yes I am still confused. Don't quote paraphrase, show us where he actually said "God told me to run with Buhari". I am still searching for it. Read a similar article a few days ago and could not see where the man said God told him to run with Buhari. I rather see it from the horses mouth than read it in the paraphrase of an overzealous journalist. Here is a link to the actual interview, please draw our attention to where Bakare said God told him to run with Buhari cos I might have missed it (quite plausible). http://pmnewsnigeria.com/2011/02/01/bakare-god-told-me-to-run-with-buhari/

Sensationalist article. Where on earth in the article does Bakare say "God told me to run with Buhari"?

violent:
@Skyblue

hmmm, one minute he condemns the political objectives of a man and tagged him as being one of the sons of turmoil

The next minute he's welcoming a handshake to be run side by side with the same man.

one wonders how much of integrity is left in this individual, and how much of it we ought to expect from him given that he's capable of changing his mind faster than i can type on Nairaland. 


“One of the truest tests of integrity is its blunt refusal to be compromised.”------Chinua Achebe quotes

No need to throw around Chinua Achebe quotes where they might not necessarily apply. Changing one's mind is not in itself a test of a person's integrity. Apart from the attributing personal views to that of God I see nothing wrong here. Have you never ever changed your mind about anything before in your life? I used to be a supporter of Ribadu but I have recently re-evaluated this for the mean time (till he addresses some isues which I will not bore you with). I am happy I can confess to this because I am afterall human and this is not about just winning some lame online argument. The man is human and not God, as a result he is not above mistakes (non of us are), he also should be allowed to change is mind and all I am concerned with in that regard is a substantial reason or explanation (by him) as to why he changed his mind, simple. What I find irritating is the sanctimonious attitudes of some posters as if they are above certain things. We are all human. No need for cheap propaganda. I will look out for the man's explanation and see if it can convince me.

If this is Bakare's sin (like a lot of Nigerian pastors who seek relevance, being so quick to attribute personal views to hearing from God), then I am willing to overlook it, he is afterall human. What is the implication of being human? Being able to make mistakes and being able to change your mind. If he can simply articulate what made him change his mind then I am all ears and willing to listen. Afterall, I reserve the right to change my mind and I have made mistakes too. There is no need to resort to cheap propaganda, it is irritating, and a tad childish if anything. What I am looking at favourably with regards to Bakare is his affiliation with the Save Nigeria Group.

1025:
@beaf,
jonathan is just a very good example of the mediocrity u mentioned above and he has demonstarted that in his short time arround. jos, borno, bauchi, enugu, bayelsa and many more places and states are quite ungovernable.
if u say we were once a country with beautiful prospects and brimming talents, when was that?
if buhari is coming to make us sharia, when didn't he do that as a military president when all powers belonged to him and idiagbon?
is sharia will make us move forward as a nation, i don't have any gaddem problem with that after all, sharia will let us cut off these thiefing rulers hands and legs at will.
it will help us flog them whenever we catch them with all these ashawo girls with whom they share our money.
if tunde bakare will give up his religion for sharia, then so be it as i am well convienced that all of us here incvluding these criminal presidents and govs are not more religious than bakare.
if nigerians want change for real, let us embrace tunde and buhari.
if we have been suffering under the so called christain presidents, let us try this muslim president.

Funny write up but with regards to the part in bold, are we talking about the same country here?.

Beaf:
Nigeria is bogged down by mediocrity, but we were once a country with beautiful prospects and brimming talent.
Mediocrity comes in little steps (its the little steps that kill), the OIC was one, military rule was another, religion and luck in politics is yet another. Nigeria (alongside Malaysia and Singapore) was once projected to be a leading country, but while the other two have fulfilled that projection. Nigeria is still a developmental sandpit.

Accepting a religious ticket is a step toward the abyss we cannot afford. What it really says, is that we are willing to play dice with the future in a panic induced by despondency; but what we really need is a plan and a cool head. All Buhari ever talks about is corruption, but corruption is not at the root of Nigeria's problems, what we need to adress is what causes Nigeria to be fertile ground for corruption. Buhari has never spoken in that light, perhaps he is leaning only on religion and is not a deep thinker.

You might first of all want to define what a "religous ticket" is. Isn't Jonathan a christian? I don't get it, so religous people cannot be progressive and pro development? What exactly is your point here? Corruption might not be the root of all of Nigeria's problems, but in its wider ramifications it is perhaps the greatest hindrance we have to development, and I am yet to see any candidate (apart from maybe Utomi) proposing ways to tackle what makes Nigeria a fertile ground for corruption, so since this election is about choosing the best out of the rest I don't think any of the points you have raised so far put Buhari behind any of the major candidates.

Beaf:
Buhari has been repeatedly pressed on the sharia issue (if he intends to propagate it across the entire Nigeria) and he has repeatedly dodged the question.
Nigeria is a secular country, but is already listed among Islamic nations due to our being smuggled into the Organisation of Islamic Conference by IBB. We need to sidestep all religious tickets as a matter of national survival.

Yes Nigeria should not be in the OIC and it is something that should be addressed, but I am yet to see how membership of the OIC (when compared to reckless leadership and corrupt governance) has seriously stifled our development. Is it membership of the OIC that has perpetuauted corruption and bad leadership in the country? Does membership of the OIC force governors and ministers to steal and ignore developmental projects? We shouldn't be in the OIC I agree, but it would be quite laughable to even attempt attributing our personal shortcomings to membership of the OIC. So you would potentially overlook all "religous" tickets (whatever that means) for candidates that could represent more of the same even if the aspirants on these so called "religous" tickets could potentially bring more order to government, tackle serious national issues and hence bring development on a national scale?

StarBoard:
Oga,what role does a VP play in governance?
Constitutionally,if Buhari decides to push Sharia (which is not unlikely given his past utterances),what can Bakare do as a VP,assuming they win the elections?
Awaiting answers. . .

I agree that the whole sharia thing is something Buhari really needs to be pressed on and questioned on because the last time I know off where he was asked the question he didn't answer directly. However most of (if not all) the core northern states have already adopted sharia (very unfortunately in my opinion) and I don't really see how it can be 'forced' unto the south that is dominantly christian, at least not in the way some people portray it. Last time Buhari was in power he did allow his vice play a very important role in government and he was given a relatively free rein to act. Yes Buhari probably needs to be pressed on certain issues (as I would rather have a sharia free Nigeria that is not a member of the IOC in future), but I think some people are just being a bit too alarmist. We are not in a military dictatorship anymore and there is a legislature and a judiciary.

Think of it this way and I do not speak of Buhari so put him aside: given a choice to have a leader who is ready to seriously tackle corruption and bring more order to government, would you be willing to overlook him for other candidates who might represent more of the same out of some fear of sharia being forced down the throat of a dominantly christian south?

[quote author=Ma_J_Blige link=topic=596528.msg7644261#msg7644261 date=1296546554]Sir.

I put it to you that God hasnt sent you on this errand.

LOL.

Should we begin to preach doom against Nigeria just as you were doing when OBJ came to power? Should we begin to see blood and begin to tell people God will destroy Nigeria if ever you become the VP? We need to know sir.[/quote]Surely that cannot be all you got from the interview, can it? I don't get the idea of your first line. We all shout change change change, do we think it is going to fall from the sky? What is wrong about a man actually acting on his convictions? Or are we now lauding the siddon look attitude that seems to have got us nowhere this far? Or is the issue because he is a pastor? He might be a pastor but isn't he human as well or are you saying certaibn people are exempt from contributing to the development (in whatever capacity) of Nigeria? I really don't get some posts sometimes. This is an interesting ticket and might go some way in allaying the fears of some people who have been put off by Buhari due to his perceived religous bigotry and intolerance. I think people should seriously consider this ticket.

Ribadu really really needs to step up his game and start campaigning vigorously not just in urban areas, but perhaps even more importantly in the rural regions (something PDP is quite good at doing). It would be a shame if Ribadu can't make an impact in the polls, his prominence would mean we have a choice of three reasonable candidates (Utomi needs to seriously step up too if he is to be considered worthwhile) and that can only be a good thing for our democracy.

Gbawe:
However it may rile you and however presumptious Ribadu himself was , the former EFCC boss legitimately has the right to expect he may be retained as EFCC boss under a new Government . There is nothing wrong in him planning on a course of action under a new boss especially if such is not possible under his current boss. Jonathan's situation was not similar in the past and it is not today. Jonathan , if he did not agree with the actions of Yar Adua, must act because he will eventually have to leave office when Yar Adua does. Today , Jonathan does not even have a direct boss . He only has an indirect boss in the Nigerian people. Even allowing for checks and balances from the other arms of Government, it is only an insincere person that will posit that Jonathan is not his own boss and capable of acting far more freely to "change the system" than Ribadu ever was.

Sadly you done no such thing . You only show that your response is one that is not well thought out. You notice that I give examples of issues Jonathan has full discretionary powers to work on , eg the reduction of many superflous offices in a Government virtually all observers agree is unsustainably large, because I intrinsically understand that even the President , on certain issues, does not have the free hand to act at will. Why did I not say I expect GEJ to supervise the passage into law of the FOI bill? Indeed the President has to work with the judicial and legislative arm of Governance but he is solely in charge and has a free hand over many important aspects of executive governance that can impact positively on the lives of Nigerians. Did we not see him create several new positions out of the blue this week ? Did he not create the PAC at will? What stops him , inversely and in the best interest of nigeria , from disbanding some moribund "money pit" committees or reducing the number of offical positions created by the executive arm of Governance? You see you have no leg to stand on? Yes the President may be impiared in some aspect of Governance but , regarding many other issues, he totally has a free hand to do what is best for Nigeria instantly.

With regards to the first bolded part. Why are you so disinegenuous? What has been the history of high profile public appointments that the EFCC boss "legitimately has the right to expect he may be retained as EFCC boss under a new Government"? If even the IG is not spared from such changes then why would Ribadu expect to be retained and act on such presumptions? Why? Is is just naivety or plain stupidity? The foundation of your main argument is predicated on Ribadu expecting to remain EFCC boss in subsequent administrations when all the political history of federal appointments in the country (which show rather frequent changes in IGs, ministers, etc) shows this doesn't happen? What an absolute joke of an excuse. It seems we have to believe against the trend and buy into a lot of excuses when it comes to all things Ribadu.

With regards to your subsequent points. I have never claimed to hold brief for Jonathan and their are valid points you raise. Jonathan is trying to win an election and hence I don't expect him to do anything so drastic or start picking fights now. What is funny and plain irritating though, is your weak and laughable attempts at trying to position Ribadu as being so far removed from the rest, some esteemed and principled public officer when it has been shown time again (based on his tenure as EFCC chairman) that such might not be the case. It seems you always need beat about the bush or make unlimited excuses for Ribadu but such excuses only have to be exclusive to him, why? Is such not the sign of weak foundations? I am not worried though because a lot of people have seen the flaws in your arguments/excuses and would even put Buhari before Ribadu. If Ribadu wants to gain better standing he has to address these issues. Making excuses will not make the questions go away.

Gbawe:
You really have a problem with comprehension. I use the example of Jonathan's office as VP to show his vis-a-vis position with Ribadu when both men were in the same Government in reply to the part you bolded in your initial response to what I wrote . Ribadu's action of staying in office back then , whatever side of the fence one sits on, can be viewed as partly legitimate with how the EFCC boss could resign or wait to gain a free hand under a new Govt to still correct some anomalies and improve the system . Whatever one says , one can concede that the option was indeed open to Ribadu.  Jonathan by righting the wrongs against Ribadu shows he did not support the actions of his boss . He would therefore have been in Ribadu's position i.e a subordinate not at ease with the action of his boss. Well Jonathan , back then, did not have the option of waiting for a new Government to fight issues he had problems with because he would have being voted out with Yar Adua!!!! The onus was therefore greater for Jonathan to act against actions of Yar Adua while VP . He did not . Why?

Talking of GEJ as VP was intended to show you that Jonathan never had the constraints Ribadu had so your initial statement that "If that excuse can work for Ribadu why can't it work for Jonathan" is predicted on wrongful premises .It was wrong in the past and is even more ridiculous today , now that Jonathan wields ultimate executive power, because Mr. President is now empowered to change the system without obvious impediments far , far, far more than Ribadu was . There are many things jonathan can do to "improve the system" no one limits him from doing that Mr. President is failing to do. Ribadu's brief was to figth corruption. One can argue he may feel he will be in a stronger position under a new Govt to tackle friends of the current Govt. One of Jonathan's main brief as President is to do what is best always to improve the economy. We all know recurrent expenditure must be slashed and the working populace of an over-bloated Government trimmed down. Nobody stops Jonathan acting on those issues right now . He does not have to wait for anyone's approval to act and he is not subordinate to any one in Nigeria . Yet Mr. President is doing the opposite of what is required  !!!! Kapish now?

Your argument is fundamentally flawed (and I think you know this) and I would show you why. How many Inspector Generals of police (IGs) have we had since OBJ? How many new cabinets have we had in that time also? If ministerial positions and positions like the IG seem to be terminated with the arrival of every new administration (as is normally the case even in state governments with commisioners), why are we then supposed to believe that childishly weak argument that Ribadu can be excused (once again) because he was waiting for a new dispensation (or according to you - 'waiting to gain a free hand'), when we know from past instances that it wasn't certain he was going to retain his job? Or was he so arrogant to believe he would be there forever likel some immortal and wise sage waiting for the arrival of a dispensation more in tandem with his alleged convictions? If he wasn't sure he would be there forever, shouldn't this have made him act with more urgency and doesn't that make your first argument (excuse) null and void? Aren't the Jonathan and Ribadu situations more similar than you would rather have us believe since they could have both been removed from power - by election or resignation, etc? Wasn't the onus even greatest on Ribadu since he had the attention of the media and could have gone at anytime (as turned out to be the case) to make more of a statement by resigning or pursuing the so called untouchables more diligently??

Now to rubbish your next point. You keep talking about the president acting with a freer hand and I have to ask if that is the case why Obama hasn't been able to get a lot of the things he wants and has been forced to compromise? How many bills has the Nigerian legislature stifled? Jonathan sent a Local Content bill to the legislature which is yet to be passed. The Executive does not work in a vacuum and has to deal with the legislature and the judiciary. How many times have there been clashes between the executive and legislature over the passage of a budget? Ribadu's job was to focus solely on corruption. He had the attention of the media and had greater urgency because he could be removed and yet we are to accept the excuse that it made sense for him not to step down out of some morally guided pragmatism, but that excuse can work for him and only him? Laughable.

[quote author=ndu_chucks link=topic=594003.msg7624935#msg7624935 date=1296264364]Why can't we have the type of revolution taking place in tunisia and Egypt, right here in Nigeria? Ribadu could be our very own  ElBaradei.[/quote]You really do think a lot of him don't you?

Gbawe:
The problem is that you are being exposed , daily , as an insincere chap with how you think other must answer your question while you are free to ignore issues raised . You initially asked "If that excuse can work for Ribadu why can't it work for Jonathan". I then showed , to your discombobulation, that Jonathan is in a much stronger position to take a principled stand against a sitting President , because he is VP, than an EFCC boss who can be hired and fired by the President at will. It makes sense , if you understand conversational give-and-take , that , minimally , in the spirit of continuing debate earnestly,  you address why Jonathan , even if protected by law (better than Ribadu was) could only act on his instincts after Yar Adua was no longer on the scene as a basis for further discussions .

This is why I dislike talking to you and many GEJ fans , You folks are very poor at defending your corner . You only push feebly that others don't respond to issues you raise . When folks respond adequately and 'flip the pancake'  you guys are always lost . Again , tell me why Jonathan should get credit for doing anything as President , against his former boss , he could not agitate for as VP ?

As usual a lot of writing with very little substance. Was Jonathan a Vp to OBJ? So what on earth are you talking about? If Ribadu felt he was compromised during his stint as EFCC chairman (which was during the OBJ era in case you have forgotten), why didn't he step down (like Iweala did) to make a statement? Or should this stepping down out of principle apply to everyone else except Ribadu? Can you please try to stay on topic? Your post above about Jonathan being in a higher position is irrelevant since Iweala after all was not a VP. Or is it now only VPs now that should resign to make "principled" statements? Do you see how you keep digging yourself deeper into holes just trying to come up with pseudo moral rules that must only apply to Ribadu and no one else? Laughable. You knavery is seen by all though, so I am not worried

Gbawe:
Dude think comprehensively , without overzealous haste , and the answers may be obvious to you before you 'commit' yourself. The EFCC boss can be sacked any time at the discretion of the sitting President. The Vice President is in a much greater position of power because the President does not have the power to sack him arbitrarily. The VP can therefore , if brave and principled to start with , afford to take a principled stand against a dictatorial President because the instrumentalies of Governance means that the President of the day cannot victimise a VP as he can the head of a parastatal he has total discretionary power over . Atiku proves my point with how OBJ could not cower him in 2006-2007 while Yar Adua also proves my point , as per the vulnerability of any EFCC boss, with how he totally emasculated Ribadu via the powers vested in him to control the EFCC boss completely.

As usual you dodge all issues raised and miss the boat completely (although I now believe on purpose). Why couldn't Ribadu step down on "principle" to make a statement (like Iweala did) when he was EFCC chairman, or didn't he see reason to do so? Is that question (one of a few in my previous post) short enough for you to concentrate on without veering off point?

^^^ Please stop shooting yourself in the foot, it is embarassing and cringe worthy reading these posts of yours.

If GEJ is bravely principled , why did he not take Yar Adua on over the persecution of Ribadu ? Why not step down , out of principle, if you believe Ribadu was being wrongly persecuted ? That is , afterall , what principled politicians do i.e leave office when they cannot tolerate/change what is ideologically abhorrent to them . Not so? Very easy to be seen as benevolent when you correct the actions of a dead man but it can also be said that you are a coward since you failed to stand up against the fundamentally wrong actions of your boss while he was top Dog and alive . GEJ could only act after Yar Adua was dead . Pathetic .

I thought one of the excuses you gave for Ribadu in some other thread for non performance and not standing up against OBJ and co was that he could not leave the system and had to stay in it to change it out of some righteous pragmatism, not so? If that excuse can work for Ribadu why can't it work for Jonathan? Why did such actions in Ribadu's case not affect his standing as a "principled" public servant if according to you similar action consequently makes Jonathan unprincipled?? Do you now see why I refer to your posts as disingenuous ones? This is what I find irritating about your posts, the double standard clearly used to estimate each aspirant. Some excuses are fine when applied to Ribadu but not to anybody else whatsoever. Ribadu needs special excuses but not the rest. We are to understand that Ribadu could not stand up to certain highly placed individuals as EFCC chairman during the OBJ years but we are to believe he would somehow be able to stand up against Tinubu and act free of such influences if he becomes president? Funny how you will probably never address such issues but keep beating around the bush and think these questions will go away.

If the issue was ignored people would have talked, now the issue is being tackled people are still complaining. If the man was thrown in jail on the whim people would have shouted "due process", now the minister is being asked to resign to face charges of corruption brought up by a government agency and people are still shouting. Who is that poster who said they couldn't wait for Buhari to come and fight all past corrupt leaders? Was it not Buhari who said he was not interested in focusing on past leaders?

ShangoThor:
Nope, the people will have to force the issue. But there is no unity amongst the peoples of Nigeria to make the 'Structural changes'.

We the people have to partly accept some responsibility for irresponsible government and decadence.

I tell my father frequently also that I blame his 'independence generation' for what we are about to inherit.

That is the sad thing that people fail to consider, its like we are in denial over the fact that we the people have let things get to this stage. People will talk heaven and earth and pontificate over the state of things, you ask this same people who can so easily vote (since it is in their vicinity) if they would vote and they begin giving you long story about how its a waste of time.

LRNZH:
Past 11 Months: This is more like GEJ credentials since he has been president

So are we to trust that GEJ and the present crop of PDP are going to "fix the state" if "voted" in?

Are we to trust that the other candidates will? Is this even a discussion or what exactly is the point of the thread, I mean, wouldn't it make more sense to compare between candidates that are actually on the ballot if this thread has anything to do with elections? You ask people if they would vote for "this"? Vote for "this" over what exactly? And perhaps that is the crux of the matter for anyone who wants to sell their candidate of choice or disuade others from voting a particular one, isn't it?

Gbawe:
The more you talk the more you confuse yourself to end up sounding partisan and insincere in your transparent attempt to deliberately misinterprete what I write .  I have not spoken as if the EFCC , per se , existed before Ribadu as a "failing parastatal". Those are your own words and thoughts . Many , since I assume most know their history more than you do , will understand that , before Ribadu, and minus Idiagbon and Buhari's effort, there had only been half-hearted and insincere efforts to tackle corruption with numerous deceptive agencies and schemes. in other words, the EFCC existed under various names and guises, albeit woefully , before Ribadu . Change the name of the Nigerian Police Force to the crime fighting agency of Nigeria and you still dont change the fact that both are meant to fight crime in Nigeria. 

The international community , more or less , ignored our efforts till Ribadu came along. He should minimally , because of his effort and 'lead by example' dedication to his duties,  be given credit for re-engaging the International agencies to partner Nigeria effectively in the fight against international corruption, money laundering and Financial crime. This , in case you don't get it, is why Ribadu has remained respected and internationally much sought after beyond his EFCC years like Okonjo Iweala et al . Go and research what Ribadu's work did for our TI ratings and how his effort affected our listing , for the better, on most international and respected lists corruption impacts on. Anyway I am done talking to you . have a nice day.

like - as if. Do you understand what a simile is? EFCC was the first organisation dedicated to fighting corruption, are you that insincere that you have us believe different and equate the birth of EFCC to mere changing names of a previously existing financial crimes agency? So what other government sanctioned agency at a federal level was dedicated to fighting corruption (in other words, what had to change name to become EFCC?) Go ahead, educate us (or do we add it to your list of unanswered questions - I will probably get a self indulgent pontification which does not address the question as a response). The international community (including all these rating agencies you are so quick to throw in) gave Nigeria positive attention because of all the noise Ribadu travelled around the world making. Most who bought into the hype (like myself) were left simply disappointed in the light of a rational retrospective. I am only happy that our exchanges (including the many unanswered or half answered questions) are posted on the forum so your knavery can be seen by all

Gbawe:
This is why I tried to ignore you previously . How you talk  and your support of GEJ , and the perception by many he is a "son" to corruption, means you automatically must discredit Ribadu who , in the minds of Nigerians, is generally seen as able to fight corruption. Ribadu understood his job as EFCC boss . Sadly , the same cannot be said for many Nigerians except technocrats like Falana who understand the workings of the system by virtue of having to operate in it themselves . Many , like yourself , think and deliberately talk as if the fight against corruption begins and ends with a public takedown of as many Governors as possible . you don't understand that the fight against corruption encompasses the public and private sector with an attendant need to check the deleterious flow of funds outside Nigeria through channels and systems many, many politicians had set up prior to Ribadu taking charge. Even if one one limits the fight against corruption to begin and end with the Governors , Ribadu will still be viewed favourably because he bravely took on the Governor and he would probably have gotten the better of them if change in Governments in Nigeria does not signify a cessation of policies and initiative , however good , by new Governments who come with their own corrupt cronies and kingmakers.

Ribadu , as the pioneer boss of the EFCC , understood his Job , unlike most Nigerians like yourself , and he approached it with previously unseen technocratic zeal. The fight against corruption needs a multi-faceted and intelligent approach . This is what Ribadu brought that is , till today, unmatched . You can fight Governors all you want but if , with their immunity , the channels remain for them to siphon their funds abroad , thus continuing the impoverishment of  Nigeria, then you are only showboating focusing on their imprisonment alone as an effective corruption buster.

When Ribadu became EFCC boss Nigeria was a pariah nation as far as corruption was concerned. We were viewed as more or less moribund as far as corruption was concerned. It was Ribadu who began the re-engagement of international agencies , hitherto uninterested in our hypocritical fight against corruption, with a visoinary focus on the need to arrest corruption at source by ensuring funds could not be moved out of Nigeria easily as an effective way to fight corruption. He was so successful with this approach of intelligence gathering and sharing with established international agencies that Nigerian looters begun shunning the traditional base for laudered funds , like the UK and the USA , in preference of places like south Africa and Ghana !!! If Ribadu had been allowed to continue his job and if Yar adua had more sincerity than OBJ then Nigeria would no doubt have seen a very effective and productive war against corruption because ribadu approached issues technocratically and methodically. till today Waziri is floundering in comparision to ribadu. International sponsors of the EFCC , who came on board under Ribadu, have more or less abandoned Ribadu. I would have to spend too much time attempting to educate ignorance about the efforts and success of Ribadu at fighting corruption , in its generality, as opposed to how many Nigerians still think fighting corruption is only deemed successful when you bring Governors to book. When that consideration is matched with engaing fans of a President surrounded by the most corrupt in the land it becomes as painful as trying to pull ones tooth out with a plier and without any anaesthetic.

You think I am an ignorant Jonathan supporter, fair enough. However in all sincerity, with each post you make you come across as quite disnegnuine, and your inability to actually accept that Ribadu's records might not match the hype is amusing. What is even more amusing is the way you speak about EFCC as if it was a long established failing parastatal before Ribadu came along. EFCC pretty much started with Ribadu. The international community understandably approved unanimously of the development because it was the first agency of its kind in Nigeria and the idea of the Nigerian government showing seriousness in fighting corruption had to be encouraged. You translating all of that buzz and excitement to Ribadu (who managed only one success out of how many attempts again?) is laughable. The "specific" questions I raised were not addressed, instead what I was offered was a write up by yours trully which was in all essence an excuse report on why Ribadu didn't seem to do so stellar in his fight against corruption. Of course the fight against corruption must also involve the private sector, does that mean we should close our eyes to governmental corruption (or are you suggesting a less wholesome attempt)? I make no apologies for refusing to accept this one sided picture of Ribadu's tenure in office you would rather I accept blindly (when even you needs to write an excuse report to justify it). I will also probably not bother with you anymore as you seem quite disengenuine (plus you have a knack for avoiding the questions and offering up vague conjectures as responses). Thankfully, our exchanges (including the many holes in your arguments) are there for all to see. Its as if you believe by continuously repeating the same thing over and over again even in the light of factors that show otherwise, it would magically become true. Is it so difficult to say that Ribadu's performance didn't match the hype and noise he made? Is it so hard? Would it take anything away from you to accept this? So it is valid to make excuses for Ribadu but implausible to do the same for Buhari or Jonathan? And you call me a fanatic? Do you even know what a fanatic is? Funny

Dan jos:
why are the Christians always trying to show they have all the right to rule despite the zoning agreement?
do you think you will go thru if the politics turned to christian vs Muslims.
kindly refer to CIA facts book 2009. to jugde for your selves.
don't allow your pastor/vicars divide this country.

What is sad about this post is that the very fundamentals of its mentality is actually not that uncommon in the north. I thought the zoning thing for many people was north and south, according to you it seems you don't just have to be north, you have to be the right kind of north also. So apart from region and religion, when does competency ever ever enter the equation? And some people express shock and horror when some suggest a possible end to this union.

Gbawe:
You see that my stance of not wanting to entertain your arguement , as a typical GEJ fan , is now justified ? You somehow fail to acknowledge what I write below and then you posit that I claim " Ribadu is that great, as opposed to actually creating a more wholesome arguement for your position based on evidence and substance"


When did you intend to address what was written above considering that , even if not exhaustive, it goes towards answering your incessant demand for Ribadu's achievement as EFCC boss? You are showing yourself to be no different to most GEJ fans on Nairaland with how you begin politely only to then descend into character assasination and a belligerent attempt to discredit others . Ignoring certain sections of what folks write is also par for the course - especially if they tackle issues you raise . If you then respond to what I write above one would have to wonder , if you are really sincere, why you ignored it previously considering it is as attempt to directly address issues you raise.

Now , for example , you claim I just want Nigerians to accept Ribadu because of the progressive support he enjoys. That is obvious and deliberate distortion because my point is , and remains that Ribadu is only able to still enjoy the fervent support of the most progressive minded and most objective Nigerians of undoubted integrity because , with a holisitc look at the environment back then, they can see that the the former EFCC Chariman is worth supporting ahead of others. We will all have Juries and judges in our lives at one time or the other. If Ribadu is cleared by a jury of integrity that cannot be motivated by any other consideration other than a hunger to do what is best for Nigeria then the judge (Nigerians) , at the very least, can be happy to consider their submission .

Ignoring the amusingly childish 'fanatic' references in your post, point taken - with regards to the part in bold (unfortunately I don't hold the names you posited as supporters in the high regards and esteem you hold them so it is neither here or there as far as I am concerned). Nevertheless, point taken. Now on a more serious note, what is it you want me to address that I haven't.

Gbawe:
This is why I consider debates like these long-winded . Every of your grouse is encapsulated and dealt with adequately in my many response. Go back and read what transpired back then , without bias and prejudice, and you may understand what the many progressives do that keep them behind this man . Nigerian Governors have immunity from prosecution while in office .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_immunity

Ribadu stated that many Governors were corrupt and he boasted (rightly so for a corruption buster sure of his work) that they would be prosecuted by the EFCC after they no longer have immunity. How was he to predict that Yar Adua would be beholden to the most corrupt in the land ? is it not logical to note that Ribadu was undermined by the lack of continuity of good initiatives that continue to bedevil Nigeria ? What Governor can Ribadu go after if Yar Adua does not sanction it? Remind me again what one of yar Adua's first announcements was if not that the EFCC must refer to the office of the very corrupt AGF (aondoakaa ) before they prosecuted anyone !!! Not us not begin revising history partisanly . If Ribadu boasted under OBJ's Government that Governors would be prosecuted after they lost immunity and this did not happen under Yar Adua (with the President openly interfering through the AGF to frustrate Ribadu) who can logically blame Ribadu for Ibori et al remaining out of prison?


You go on about Odili without understanding that Ribadu , once again , is perhaps driven by patriotism more than partisanship. At the stage when Odili wanted to become President by gaining the PDP ticket the prevailing sentiments of the day for good guys like Ribadu, EL Rufai et al was that those who have stolen vast sums of money do not use it to buy their way to Aso Rock so that the gains made by Nigeria will not be squandered under a corrupt Government . Ribadu , EL Rufai and others like them hoped for continuity , through working for the emergence of a President that would allow them to carry on their good work for Nigeria. That was the paramount consideration of that period and RIBADU, EL RUFAI AND OTHERS WERE DEDICATED TO WORKING TOWARDS IT with patriotic zeal. IfOdili wants to become President and Ribadu knows he is a looter of public funds what do you suggest Ribadu shouls do , in our very imperfect democracy, to 'discourage' Odili  , if he cannot seek his outright prosecution, other than use the EFCC to ward off Odili for that period with the hope his full prosecution can come under yar Adua when Odili would no longer have immunity? If the prosecution of Odili under Yar Adua did not happen because of the very obvious persecution of Ribadu why do you blame him and not others like Yar Adua and Waziri who recieved the baton from Ribadu only to claim the dossiers on former Governors was now missing? You see why I avoid these debates? Every thing you write can be countered in the context of what had to be done given the specific challenges of the times but the past would have to be revisited robustly and copious writings presented to make the case. Anyway , you are one of those who will not be convinced to see what needs to be seen as per ribadu. If Soyinka, Akeredolu, Gani fawehinmi, Femi Falana, Okonjo-Iweala , Okey Ndibe and many others proggressive Nigerians think that "the boy done good" while GEJ fans hold otherwise then I am happy to accept things as they stand.

Just one thing, you need to drop the whole 'only progressives support Ribadu' trite, it is a tad irritating. Name dropping high profile people who support Ribadu does nothing to the issue (after all didn't Soyinka also speak favourably of Yar Adua that you now in hind sight seem to lambast?)

Now back to the good points you raised. Do you now suggest that Ribadu was pursuing Odilli (who I think we all agree is corrupt and should be in jail anyway) as a result of some patriotic zeal as opposed to doing the short term bidding of his superiors? Was Tony Annenih a govenor with immunity also or are we going to start arguing that federal ministers and other high profile public officers are also covered by immunity? You are right this could go on forever but let me just highlight some points nthat have become clear during our discourse. After all the noise making about Ribadu's high achievement (which you kept on going on about), when you were actually tackled on these said achievements you turned defensive and started making excuses for why Ribadu could not perform so well (isn't that just plain amusing?). Does that make the excuses invalid?I don't think so. Nevertheless they are excuses to alleged achievements of successfully fighting high profile corruption that actually never really materialised (you were only able to name one conviction and blamed it on immunity of governors as if it was only the office of the govenors that were alleged to be corrupt). This failure to fight corruption to the level the nation desired can be attributed to hostile conditions (which you see as the sole cause). However I think we should not ignore competency at getting the job done, and unfortunately competency does not necessarily just come with how many degrees or how much exposure you have. Dora Akunyili (say what you want about her ministerial stint) did a commendable job at NAFDAC and you can actually point to performance based evidence to show that. All in all what was left behind was an institution with some semblance of order and continuity. What EFCC did Ribadu leave behind? Nigeria more than anything needs strong institutions for longetivity and continuity in development and I can't comprehend how people can fail to see that. All I am saying is Ribadu made a lot of noise, and for the ammount of noise he made he seemed to achieve relatively little (to say the least).

It seems relatively easy to jump on the Ribadu band wagon because he has not ever led the nation and has no records to that effect (unlike Buhari and Jonathan), but how somebody with the little they know about him cannot for a second even doubt his capability for the job (based on his stint as EFCC chairman) really does shock. Tell me, if Ribadu gets into power and fails to perform what would be there to blame every single thing on then? The legislature? Or are you assuming the executive would be working in isolation and making all the calls (heck even Obama had to learn that such was not the case)? Have you ever asked yourself if Ribadu would be able to get things done (even though his record of public office doesn't really seem to show it)? If we were to go with sentiment (which believe you me I am not diminishing in anyway) then I would understand your position. But to present Ribadu as the rationally unquestionable and certain best of the pack is a tad amusing. Heck if supporting a candidate with a poor record of delivering on his job is the path to progressivism then I am willing to give it a miss. The amusing thing is I am willing to actually consider Ribadu (for reasons I can expantiate on later if you want), I am just not interested in this apparent rewritting of his so called laudable achievements which apparently need to rely on excuses as crouches when challenged.

My friend , we cannot have puritanical saints involved with leadership in Nigeria at the moment because we are easily a 100 years behind some of the best democracies in the World. That is a fact that may not sit well with idealists . If Ribadu Presents the file of Bode George to OBJ and he is vetoed the option is for him to resign or carry on with the notion that "half bread is better than non" in the hope that a less compromised President , in future, will give him the leeway to do his job more effectively  . Some will say Ribadu should have resigned like Okonjo-Iweala while others will argue that the challenges are different and that Ribadu was right to carry on in a treachery-laden system with the contention that , while still in the system, he can influence the system for the better. Let us not forget that okonjo-Iweala , fantastic woman that she is and one of ribadu's admirer and staunch supporters, initially accepted her ungracious posting away from her beloved  Finance Ministry , after she had done so much for nigeria, because she "still felt compelled to serve her nation" . Infact she raised dust at her new appointment by revealing , to the embarrasment of OBJ and co, that pens, paper and basic office supplies were unavailable in testimony to rank decay. in the end they wanted her out and she obliged even as she was pained to do so.Certainly , some of the most intelligent Nigerians with the most upright character are behind this man more than anyone else . I would think that counts for an endorsement of Ribadu as a whole in recognition of the fact that , for the first time in our history, one man had a significant impact in tackling corruption, enhancing Nigeria's image and getting us declassified from many harmful lists that impact credit ratings, busines friendliness quotient, etc.

Ribadu did well in an environment where almost everyone else would have failed . After corruption had become institutionalised the onus , more or less , was on one man to reform the system. He did this well to local and international acclaim. Even an amateur knowledge of the prevailing political atmosphere at the time will make most folks understand that Ribadu did very well when OBJ probably brought in a sincere man he could use to gain kudos yet undermine in the end. The many respected Nigerians who remain fervent fans of Ribadu till date understand this concept even if some of us simplistically want to paint issues black and white . Ribadu , because of his experience, is actually even more qualified to fight corruption today than anyone else . He understands , more than anyone , that the EFCC can fail due to the whims and caprices of any President who is insincere and partisan in a nation where , for now, the President remains the ultimate and almost uncheckable strong man.

Apologies but this post of yours is low on substance and high on conjecture, heavily anchored on Nigerians taking your word (and the rest of the "well respected Nigerians" who support Ribadu of course) that Ribadu is that great, as opposed to actually creating a more wholesome arguement for your position based on evidence and substance. In one instance Ribadu is bread and butter and the very antithesis to corruption, and in the next instance you are apologising and making excuses for him not being so effective at fighting corruption to the level the nation aspires? Am I right here? Is that what you are actually doing (or attempted to do with the write up above)? If your argument for Ribadu was that he will fight corruption to a standstill even when he couldn't do it effectively (one prosecution out of how many allegations again?) while heading the EFCC then I am sorry but I you shouldn't express shock if people decide to pass on him.

Gbawe:
@ Sky Blue.

Let me preempt uneccessary debate. If your angle is the usual  "Ribadu was Partisan arguement" then I have dealth with that comprehensively already same as I told you I haven his  commented exhaustively on his record as EFCC chairman.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-585949.96.html

The bolded section above is borne out by Dr Aliyu Tilde (below) with his arguement that is essentially same as mine in mirroring why I posit that the progressives remain behind Ribadu because they appreciate tha his achievements are virtually second to none given the environment and circumstances that obtained when Ribadu was EFCC boss.


why did not he prosecute Obasanjo in particular? How could he do so when he needed the approval of Obasanjo to prosecute any case? He was smart enough to realize the limitations of his office and the almost infinite power of the dictatorial President. He left that task to those that would come after him or perhaps, when time would be more auspicious. Unfortunately, that time was not offered him by Obasanjo's successor. Had he tried to be foolish during Obasanjo, he would have earned our applause, but the dictator would have crushed him and his EFCC, making the nation lose everything. We still have not stopped lamenting the fall of Buhari in 1984, a fact attested by our now decade long fight for his return.

Like Buhari, This record is all Ribadu has. Fortunately it has been acknowledged by many people in this country. It explains his popularity among civil society groups, the local intelligentsia and the international community."

There are adequate questions (which go beyond partisanship and touch on actual competency) for you to chew on above.

Gbawe:
Give it a rest. What you are suggesting is not my style . I generally try to rise above insults but I make no apologies for having strong words for fans of jonathan because many (perhaps minus Na-so) get very personal  and routinely hurl insults ungraciously and without provocation at Nairalanders just to defend their candidate. You cannot claim to be ignorant of this. I have reviewed Ribadu's record as EFCC Chairman in the past. I know where you are going with your enquiry and , frankly, I don't want to get involved in counter-productive debates where everything I say becomes the basis of 200 enquiries by GEJ fans . If you have specific examples of Ribadu not doing his job well raise it and I will attempt to respond adequately .
[size=14pt]
Where , sincerely, do you want me to begin an assessment of Ribadu's leadership of the EFCC?[/size] Do I dedicate pages to talking about how he single-handled and successfully supervised the recruitment, training and motivation of deputies who turned out to be as driven and as dedicated as he ? Shall I review his unprecedented take down of  Tafa Balogun, an IGP How about his sterling work to tackle 419 and internet fraud that saw the significant reduction of those type of crime? How about Ribadu's much unknown work and unprecedented cooperation with international crime  agencies that led to a glorious period when Nigerian gained expedited assistance, training of operatives and fundings that led to never-before-seen success against money laundering and international financial crime? Can someone pray tell me what the situtation is today under Waziri and thus GEJ?

Were the many Nations who  cooperated with and celebrated Ribadu , yet now reject Waziri's EFCC vehemently, doing so out of any consideration other than how they saw that Ribadu's methodical approach delivered success not seen until then? How about Ribadu's admiral record of successful prosecution against high level corruption and his There is much about Ribadu's success than is unknown and unappreciated. Those focusing on selective persecution do so because they have an agenda . A disspassionate look at the man's pioneering work shows he was , without doubt , very good at his job as EFCC Chairman. The problem is that most Nigerians remain ignorant of how difficult Ribadu's work was compounded by the harsh environment he worked in that had many very influential corrupt individuals able to induce the judiciary faster than one can say "Ibori" . Certainly I doubt you are more intelligent or more knowledgeable than the many progressive Nigerians who hail Ribadu a resounding success to the extent they now offer their voluntary and undiluted backing for him. Below Dr Aliyu Tilde makes my case with his erudite arguements.

http://saharareporters.com/article/why-buhari-should-concede-ribadu

Ribadu told the country that all ex govenors during the OBJ regime apart from Donald Duke were corrupt. He alluded to having evidence to that effect. Peter Odilli had been governor of Rivers State for about eight years and it was not until he showed presidential ambition that the EFCC revealed startling details about what their investigations had uncovered. How come with all the noise that was made about political and general public office holders being corrupt with evidences to prosecute them, you can only name one person who was successfully prosecuted. Does the fact that the case against Odilli (who should without a doubt in my mind be in jail now) gained prominence when he showed presidential ambition and then fade away after that suggest he was doing the political dirty work of others as opposed to doing what was the best for the country? Of all the governors that public officers that Ribadu claimed to be corrupt, how many are in jail today? How can you so proudly shout one name and use it as passmark? If I say there are 100 high profile public officers I know that are corrupt and I only manage to prosecute one, will you shake my hand for a job well done? Do you think his records in prosecuting public officers justify the level of noise he made during his tenure? What makes Ribadu even better than Waziri, considering that I can also name one (Bode George) high profile person she had put in jail? Is success now a measure of how much media coverage you can receive as opposed to how effective and e.xpediant you are at doing your job? If Ribadu's record in prosecuting high profile public officers (which prominent people blamed on the EFCC's poorly constructed court cases), how are we then supposed to be so certain he would be able to fight corruption the way we require it?

You keep on going on and on about have you have addressed the issue of Ribadu's but you seemed to avoid a lot of sections of these so called records with surgical precision, so I am just seeking some clarification on the so called "stellar" achievements. I hope the questions I have posited to you are "specific" enough for you to address adequately.

Gbawe:
The one things you fans of GEJ have in common is that , beyond the facade, many of you are eventually outed as  mean-spirited , bellicose, intolerant of criticism and always looking to discredit anyone or anything standing in the way of your messiah. When you are not attacking Ribadu and Buhari you are attempting to discredit Gbawe or any other Nairalander not taken with your candidate . You are all not mature or objective enough to give folks their dues simply because you are incapable of seeing anything good from anyone that rejects your candidate. That is why Ribadu , suddenly, became a "despot" and Buhari a "radical fundamentalist".

You guys all act like you are still in primary school . What is the matter with all of you? Please if your mission is now an obssession , like that of Beaf , Tensor 777 (or whatever his username is) and co, to discredit me then you should know you are wasting your time. Others tried it and failed because well-balanced and objective Nairalanders themselves can judge what I write to know that it is the truth. You should all grow up. Your divisive, pugnacious, "fire for fire" and 'divide and conquer' mentality are for children.

Posted the part below a few days ago and have not been able to get a respond as to the "achievements" we keep on hearing about. @marvix, I will take Gbawe's posts with a pinch of salt if I were you since anyone who even dares suggest that Ribadu's records might not be as glowing as we are told to believe is a foolish GEJ apologist and supporter. Badmouthing everyone else does make make Ribadu a saint or even the best option, especially when there is a refusal to critically look at Ribadu's records as a EFCC chairman.

Just to keep things moving I will ignore your childishly mocking remarks and focus on the points raised. I don't hold brief for Jonathan. I cannot speak for Jonathan, neither have I at any point claimed to speak for him. What is important to me is the best out of the major candidates getting a shot (which we won't discover if we are afraid to prod and make some names untouchable or beyond criticism and reprimand). The whole Senator Folarin debacle is a valid one and the only thing I can think of is elections, simple as that. Jonathan's tactics probably changed once he decided to run for elections. As a result winning elections has gained prominence in his list of priorities (possibly above other things). You might not agree with it, you might hate it, you might even argue about its questionable morality (and I will agree with you on that), but it is understandable and pretending otherwise is simply dishonest. I have tried to answer that question to the best of my understanding (even though the question was never ever posited to me).

Now why don't we turn the focus back on Ribadu. [b]You say you have listed his achievements but I would like to look beyond international celebrity and focus on concrete records of the EFCC when he was leading it (after all that is how he gained prominence), so why don't we take stock? Considering the seemingly endless list of people that happened to be in his cross hairs while he was in office, is it crazy to ask how many of these people are in jail today? How many of these people have been prosecuted? I remember the whole Odilli saga quite well, I also remember being told that all governors apart from Donald Duke were pretty much corrupt and there was evidence to prove it, so please do tell, what happened? Why weren't these people prosecuted and why do a lot of them still have mansions in Abuja? Is plea bargaining an effective deterrent to the corruption he so vocally proclaimed to fight? These are genuine questions, no agenda, just genuine questions. Are they so ridiculously irrelevant and wrecklessly audacious that the issues they raise do not deserve to be addressed?[/b]

[quote author=eku_bear link=topic=587622.msg7552306#msg7552306 date=1295306089]Very sad.

Question: Why do they flare the gas rather than capturing it and selling it?  [/quote]Because it requires less effort to flare and in the short term is cheaper (no need to invest in equipment to actually capture and process the gass). During the Yar Adua government we heard tales of gas flaring deadlines beyond which no oil company was allowed to flare gas, the deadline was shifted twice. . . These oil companies have really operated with a free hand for far too long. People who just like to argue for the sake of it would make you believe that the whole Niger Delta issue (especially with regards to resource control) is a new thing. To prove that it is not a new fad, inform yourself on who Isaac Boro was. The environmental issue of it also really really really is a problem and has caused serious loss of livelihoods (especially in the rural areas). Unfortunately it seems as long as Nigeria continues to get its oil money, it doesn't care.

asamuel:
Reasonable people would vote for individuals and not parties of course. But sometimes a party's performance could be so woeful that a rightthinking person would reject all its elements. no matter how good they may look. PDP is so bad that even if you plant a saint there, it would become a pig. Look I am off to bed. Good luck on your PDP ambition!!!

The first part in bold is not always the case in places where parties actually have known ideals and policies. The part in bold is also a symptom of a country with very weak institutions where any change in government can cause massive disruption and bring about little to no continuation. Do you think if the PDP aspirant in Lagos wins the gubernatorial elections there would be continuation in policies (good ones ) that the present government has started, or would the new man try to start everything from scratch again just to prove their is a new man in town? Don't necessarily answer based on what your ideal for the situation is, rather look back at the numerous experiences of the past before you answer.

The last part in bold is a tad silly to be honest. What PDP ambition? So asking for viable opposition to the PDP makes me what exactly? Are some questions beyond asking? Or did you start this thread with a prior motive/propaganda which has not turned out the way you wanted it? So your message to people living in places like Enugu, Kaduna and Rivers State who might have seen their states develop and their lives improve as a result of governors who happen to belong to PDP is, vote out these people and go for parties you do not necessarily trust. . . . . . Why? Just to prove a point? This issue is not as simplistic as you would rather paint it. Hey, on the federal level I am all for showing PDP the back door, but not just for the sake of it and not just to change from one devil to a possibly worser one all in a bid to prove a point. Development and possibly livelihoods are at stake. This is like someone proposing war while claiming being a pacifist as an excuse for not fighting in that same war.