₦airaland Forum

@landis, is the whole world sanctioning Zimbabwe? So lifting the sanctions are the answers to the whole problem? Once it is done everything falls into place? Mugabe automatically stops becoming a dictator and power hungry and corrupt?

Let us see what she does first.

@landis, this is not slavery times anymore. Sure africa has been pillaged and raped and all that, i won't argue. However at this point in time, saying Zimbabwe is the way it is because of the west just seems to me a very bad excuse for a country that was poorly run. If you make that excuse for Zimbabwe then why don't we become unbiased and make thesame arguement for Nigeria? Thinking closer to home can you now make such an arguement? Is it the west that is pillaging all the money in the country? That is refusing to develop the country? And couldn't zimbabwe then trade with China or asian countries or other african countries if their were any sanctions?

@Uche2nna, shouldn't the question be wether his intentions were actually genuine or just cashing in on the general feeling and cheap publicity? The situation could have been handled better but was it genuine in the first place? My qualms here is the whole feeling of shock that anybody could actually see the returning of farmland to original owners in a country that was under colonial rule and then gained independence from an empire that was not willing to let go of what wasn't theirs in the first place as being in order. Let us not hide under political correctness but let us instead be honest. Could things have been handled better? Of course. Could the whole land transfer fiasco have been a cheap political and publicity stunt on Mugabe's part? Of course. But surely you can understand why people would have been passionate about the idea in the first place.

@Kobojunkie, but given the history of Africa (with slavery et al) and in a situation whereby a country with an economy defined by agriculture in which this sector was more or less run by "foreigners" surely you must understand how this could easily generate sentiment and emotional responses. It is not about agreeing or not but understanding why the people might have been not too bothered about the decision taken by mugabe. So effectively the economy was being run by non indegenes. If you read up on the whole fiasco, the british government (i am guessing knowing the situation was just not fair) was actually in an arrangement to transfer the land back to Zimbabwe, ,so what happened with that? When you consider when Zimbabwe got its independence, of course such decisions were going to stir up passion among the people. Could the situation have been handled better, of course, if Mugabe was not such a dictator and corrupt and actually gave the farms to competent hands. This does not have to be a matter of Pan africanism it is just simply a matter of what was deemed fair.

LOL. So they should start importing foreign 'ladies of the evening'?

But apart from Zimbabweans who really is expected to "remove" him?

One thing i feel is for certain is that we have had enough of the old guard. Those people who have been ruling the country either behind the scenes or in the spotlight since a bit after independence till date. It is just enough. To say that better could have been done during the 8 years of OBJ and try and sweep things under the carpet with "he tried" or "he was patriotic" would be one of the greatest understatements. Let us not extend the fact that there was more to this power fiasco than was initially insinuated to the fact that the projects were started late (so what was being done in the early years of the administration), that there is still emergency in just about every sector despite the fact that money was being thrown around everywhere. You can get your self familiarised with previous budgets if you want so you see what i mean, (roads, education, health, agric, transport, etc). The fact that thesame people are still holding unto power just echoes what is happening around the country whereby the potential of the youths are just simply being wasted. What a complete waste of human resources which might in the long run become our greatest asset. For the biggest black nation in the world Nigeria at this point definately seems to be big for nothing.
Concerning Yaradua and concerning the present, if he is indisposed and can't work then what is the Vice President doing? What are the ministers and the different sectors doing with the budget allocations they received? I mean hasn't the budget been passed? What are all the state governors doing? Sure things might be at a standstill at the federal level, whereby the legislators and the executive seem to be indisposed and that in itself is very irritating and frustrating, but what about states? Isn't their progress in lagos? So what about other states and their respective legislators?

WOW. This is just the height of Negligence and pure laziness. Does that not even make it more irritating and frustrating that their allowance was increased? What on earth are they doing then that their salaries should be paid and not delayed like those of teachers and the rest? People please get in contact with your individual reps please. Imagine if they keep on getting bugged to actually do the work which they are paid for constantly.
website ----  http://www.nassnig.org/

@Ovamboland thanks a lot for that post. That was probably the most relevant and insightful post on the whole power issue, especially with the whole funding issue. I hope all this was said in the house of reps committee hearing in order to advance and fast track the whole proceedings and fiasco. I mean, even he said that he expected to be held accountable afte leaving office as a public holder so why was there so much anger on the thread about enquiring and asking people to be held accountable? LOL. If we have a situation whereby banks are (understandably) scared to release funds to the contractors then i think we might need a review of that process. And this people, this is one of the reasons FOI bill is needed so that we won't need to go through a probe before people get informed. I have been following this thing and i did not even know that the projects were due for completion in 2009. Considering the ammount of money and the history of governance in Nigeria the public should be kept informed about all these things and the information should be easily accessed. So if this guy was not interviewed would we have known all of this? Thanks again for your post Ovamboland. I genuinely believe that what needs to be done now is to provide tight management of funding for these projects, reduce the bureacracy involved with the management of these projects and invest even more money in the power sector via awarding contracts for new projects including exploring the using the coal in Enugu etc. I really do wish Yaradua will wake up to the need for things like this to be done and get more agressive in the development of the power sector. Also this whole problem with release of funds to contractors needs to be addressed seriously and if required then a different system needs to be put in place.

LOL. I can imagine this being a course also. Darn, i got 2.1 in Adedibuism this year, even after all my hard work on the "practical" exam, i guess i have to take Adedibu 101 again. LOL.

@Segzyjoe why do we keep beating around the bush? Again the major questions remain unanswered, and we are now back to name calling? Thankfully i do have a good idea of how engineering projects work but i really don't see how that is important. Why does the idea of anybody asking the ex president questions about his term in office offend people or get them angry? I am still in disbelief. If i am sounding like a market woman then please show me were the reasoning is so flawed? I am genuinely willing to learn and understand where people with this view are coming from. The use of the word policy, so we now classify government projects as policy? Really? Really? Aren't policies meant to be guidelines? From what i understand and please do correct me if i am wrong but policies are provided guidelines on decision making and it is from policies that actions are instigated. So does that now make these actions immune to legal action? So ex governments are immune to legal action? Really? So why on earth was the EFCC created if this is true? Why?  Please unless you can quote sections of the constitution in which all that legal stuff you threw at me is stated then forgive me if i am a bit hasty to disregard it. "The president mandate is equal and superior to the National Assembly", what on earth has that got to do with if power was abused? "The president will always have his way with regards to policy issues", what on earth has that got to do with the fact that money was thrown into a sector and some people think the money needs to be justified? Why are we beating around the bush and dodging the situation? Are we practising communism whereby people cannot enquire of their public holders? I genuinely don't believe you have actually read through my posts because i keep on maintaining why it is important that questions are asked due to the shambles the country is in. You keep on going on about guilty or innocent but How on earth do we know if someone is guilty or innocent if we don't even investigate? If he is innocent then fair enough and good for him, but these responses are just shocking. Forgive my audacity to maintain that an investigation is not the worst thing in the world given the state of the country. I am sorry but i just find this whole stand against any form of investigation whatsoever so ludacris it is just . . . i am just speechless. Especially considering the state of the country i mean do you like the way things are? You haven't heard of legal actions taken against ex public officials in the states which you our system apparently copies? Really? America where public office holders are constantly under scrutiny and accountability to the people, that is where you want to compare Nigeria with? Nigeria whereby simply asking questions is getting people mad? LOL

aisha2:
4Him, There is no need arguing with your arm chair philosophy. we sit on NAiraland all day and compklian, how many of you know your reps or have even written them to ask about what they are doing. If you don't do that ho will you keep them in check. Till you do that then you don't have the moral right to critize them because just like them you are doing nothing, If you send them letters or you make a single attempt to get to yoour rep and they don't reply you its a different matter. we as citizens are also part of Government constitutionally you have a role to play, Make your rep accountable to you or initiate recall if not SHUT THE HALL UP

I wholeheartedly agree that we need to begin to do our own job as citizens too. And as i have said before, if everyone on nairaland were to engage with people in power, from your local government chairman, to the rep from your state, to anybody basically you know in power and enquire as to their vision and what they are doing in their respective sectors etc then that is actually doing something. People always feel helpless as to what we can each do instead of just coming on Nairaland everyday and get dissappointed by yet another Nigerian news story. I for one am going to make the effort to contact my rep and local government chairman. The info is not had to come by. Just go to the website of the Nigerian house of reps and get their info. We really need to engage with each other as a nation and this is a start. Does anybody here work in media please? I mean is it not about time we got some kind off show on the Nigerian airwaves were politicians are dragged on and quized as to what they are doing? Not these "yes sir, thank you sir" shows. Time to play our roles as citizens and also get more involved in our nation building.

@poster. If i may be so bold as to genuinely enquire, on what good authorities? Have you contacted EFCC? And isn't the title of the thread a bit misleading? I mean is Fashola involved or does he even know that this is going on?

If i felt the probe was genuine and going to be effective and actually result in action then i would have said let the papers run it for 2 weeks non stop if they have to sef because we really need to start building solid foundations based on accountability whereby we know if people mess up they can be held accountable and prosecuted if found guilty etc. Ofcourse the probe is in all the papers. The implications of a genuine and effective probe are for Nigeria quite huge and in public interest. If it means greedy and selfish people will think twice before applying for posts in power thereby leaving power more open to people who want to make an actual difference then is that such a bad thing? The real question i think should be, what will come off this probe? Is it a genuine one and will anything actually be done? If it is going to be like all the other useless probes that result in nothing then we have a problem.

My main focus is also on Yaradua and what he has been doing. I don't think people will forget that Yaradua is yet to do anything substantial when they have no water and they have no light for days would they? I am not forgetting Yaradua at all and as i said, we are where we are now and the main issue should be how to get out of this mess. I still think that does not mean that government of the past should not be held accountable. Yaradua is not holding these committees is he? So can't his government start new projects? A new precedence of accountability and low tolerance for corruption needs to be set doesn't it?

To be honest what i am worried about is if the probe is genuine and uncompromising and actually serious and not just another way to make money. A genuine probe is needed but what is even as important is what happens after the probe and what actions are taken as a result of the probe and its outcome. Wether the reps are doing a genuine job is another matter but nevertheless, these questions need answers and actions need to be taken so why are people getting offended about the whole idea or concept of this?

@belabela why don't we stick to the power issue at hand? People should provide the facts if they know OBJ is guilty? Has the FOI bill been passed? So how do people get this information to provide facts with if they don't have acess to this information, pluck it from thin air? Why did OBJ not pass the FOI bill before he left office when his assent was the only one that was required given that it had already been passed by everyone else? How much did OBJ have before he came out of prison? How was ota farms then and how is it now? Do you know how much is required to build and run a mordenised farm not to talk of modernising a farm? How much is the presidents salary? Is it not in millions not billions in naira? Please let us not be coy in our discourse. The issue on this thread is power. While i wholeheartedly assign to the belief that this government should be tackling problems you speak as if fixing power and tackling corruption are two mutually exclusive things. Is it Yaradua that is asking the questions? This just reminds me of a post by a nairalander after the election tribunals ruled in favour of Yaradua. The poster said it was ok because he/she knew the next elections will be better anyway. I was just shocked and could not help but keep asking "how do you know it will be better next time around"? Is that not reaping where we did not sow? We want to rid corruption but we are not willing to fight against it or even stand against it or demand more transparency and accountability? If moving forward to some posters on this thread is a euphemism for letting sleeping dogs lie then one major question, how do you know it will be different in 4 years time? Why must we repeat thesame cycle endlessly without seeing the pattern? Billions were spent on virtually every sector in the country during those 8 years true or false? Do the improvements in those sectors (education, ,road, transport, water, electricity, health, agric, etc), do they tally up with the funds? So please why on earth are we being so coy? Why are we downplaying the situation in the country? With high unemployment everywhere whereby people now see armed robbery as a career choice? Why are we being so coy? This is about power but these things had to be said considering that people are trying to make the ex president into a victim. This is not anti OBJ but anti corruption and anti bad governance which has been the bane of the country for all these years. Does expecting the new guy to be an angel when the previous guys with questions to answer are given a pat on the back all for "national inerest" make sense? The status quo needs to change. You really think these things will just go away if we continue patting it on the back and being too scared to ask questions because some work was done? Wow, does that not just give a whole new meaning to the phrase "give a dog a bone" whereby the dogs in this case are Nigerians? For corruption to be fought an uncompromising stance is needed. We need to look at ourselves in the mirror and be brutaly honest so that we can actually move on and denial is not going to get us anywhere. Power is the issue here so let us stick to the topic. If the owner of Ota farm has nothing to hide then he shouldn't be afraid so why should anyone else be afraid for him?

@basking4me while i wholeheartedly and genuinely agree with the whole idea of moving forward via proferring solutions can you really blame people when they ask how money was spent? I just find it ludacris that people get offended that citizens of their own country have the audacity to ask questions, it just does not make sense. What is so offensive about that? Are we so used to military ways of doing things? Why is it so offensive that people are asking how their money is spent? Are we not supposed to be in a democracy? What do you expect people who have been having to rely on generator even though they pay inflated NEPA bills to say, say "thank you sir"? And your last sentence, i just don't get it. If we don't even know the problem in the fist place how do we start attempting to offer solutions? The main objective right now should be aggressive expansion and building in the power sector and finishing of the projects already started, it is not rocket science. That is a very viable solution to the power problem. However your idea that people should just shut up their mouth when they feel that the money spent (their money) does not seem to justify the ammount of plants been built, their capacity and the work on ground i just don't understand. We have not held anybody accountable for the 8 years which has still left emergency in almost every sector have we? We really should be holding this current government right now accountable already. The simple truth of the matter is that we are were we are. However right now what is being done to move us away from this decay? This should the a focus. At thesame time genuine accountability of past governments should not be something to get mad at because the truth is we need accountabiltiy in government so that the next guy going in will know he can't just go and do as he pleases. Is that so offensive?

@KnowAll, the problem is even deeper than that. There are graduates everywhere and you don't even know the real worth of their degrees given the deplorable state of the education sector. You are getting situations equivalent to graduate surgeons who have never operated before, engineers eith only text book knowledge, etc. The education sector is a serious emergency. Money has to be invested into that sector badly in the first place. So that when graduates are employed they won't have to be sent on training for the most basic of things.

@debosky, thanks for taking out the time to explain your stand on this and for your patience. What i can say is that there is more to it than was initially insinuated and no not all the money was a waste. However was all of this worth $6.5billion? Keep in mind that the figure as OBJ has elaborated and if we are to believe him, is when you subtract overhead costs, basically things like salaries paid, etc. So that figure is mainly for materials, etc. While i still believe OBJ is very far from clean on many issues (NNPC, road contracts, etc), the money here was as it seems not a total waste and some work can be shown for this. However, the fact that facilities are under construction does that make all of them worth that ammount of money does it? Sure you can accuse the house of being sensationalist and i wouldn't argue with you. However you can't blame Nigerians if they are so quick to accept sensationalism, especially with the figures involved, the history of bad leader ship and the disgustingly high level of corruption that did go on in the last administration, can you? And when did the Niger Delta problem start? I think whatever the outcome is, leaders of the country should learn to be completely transparent and keep everyone informed.

@debosky thanks. So very roughly how many of these projects are around the country and roughly how many companies are involved? And do you personally think that the money apparently spent is justified by the number of such projects and the ammount of work done? I mean since you seem to know a lot about the issue, how much power (again roughly, 2000mW, 3000mW?) is going to be added to the grid if such projects are completed?

@debosky, thanks a lot for your previous post. It was insightful, but please let us not forget that this is only one company. One company out of how many? Is this what is happening accross the board? Genuine question. I mean, if i use Rivers State as another example whereby a company called Rockson Engineering was actually a tool used by Peter Odilli to siphon more money, this company came up all over the EFCC interim on Peter Odilli. Yet Obasanjo went to Rivers State to commission several plants didn't he? So what was he commisioning then and did he not know what was going on if he maintained such a close political relationship with Odilli all that time?? Someone on the forum has already reported that a generator was used during the commisioning of the much vaunted Omoku power plant. A generator? If all these problems where there at the time what was done to fix them? Let us not speak as if these problems just exploded all over Nigeria. This is not just demonising OBJ as i have no time for such. I am not anti OBJ as i don't even know him, however, i am anti corruption and anti bad governance. And i still feel that the whole thing was badly managed and people should not be shot down for enquiring into something as vital and important as this. When i refer to the people asking questions i refer to Nigerians and not the probe panel because i am yet to see anything fruitful or genuine being done as a result of any of these probes. Again, thanks for your post. Have a nice day.

LOL. This is just hilarious and i might make this my last post because this seems to be an exercise in futility. Some people have brought up points. Now instead of coming up with something that shows a shred or discussion or if you want arguement as a means of verifying or in this case dismissing these points, some people just call others "newbies" and throw taunts around. LOL. Wow. Ok then. If that is how you want to have that, go ahead and have that. Ignore all the concerns and issue raised by Nigerians everywhere, those who question are too stupid to comprehend and are even too stupid to comprehend any form of a response that is not available. I am concerned about things going on in Nigeria and this is not about winning an arguement. But if you want to feel like you have "won" whatever there is to win on this thread (inspite of the fact that Nigerians continue to suffer without light) by just ignoring the issues and instead of addressing anything and showing some of us where our reasoning is flawed go straight for the taunts then congrats you have "won" because i am not going to reciprocate such taunts. Congrats and well done. God bless  

@klas, it is a free world so you are free to call me whatever you want to call me. My so called fixation on that design point is simply because some people decided to use it as a justifiable excuse for the level of progress made and i found that absurd. A basic at best research on the entails of an EPC contract will show you that one of the features of an EPC contract is that the owner/user specifies the project duration among other things. Was any of this info given to the public? What was the project duration so that instead of you saying it was not a failure we can decide for ourselves? If it did not meet such a deadline then why didn't it? Something that to can be broken down to as easy as A B C does not have to be made unecessarily complicated to claim better insight or understanding does it? I am aware of the scope of the project and yes i might be so bold as to say i even comprehend it and after all this comprehension all i can say is that at the very best, it was badly managed to say the least. Did OBJ in anywhere in the write up say that the project has made such progress because it is still in its conceptual stage? So why on earth do you now want to make that arguement for him? And please let us not be coy, this is not 3 or 4 years we are talking about but 8 years and this is not some project for a company but a project of importance to a whole country.

WOW. Again instead of enlightening us with this higher understanding you so claim to have but i lack, you have instead decided to insult. I still don't think any of my questions are invalid with responses you keep on posting whereby you fail to educate us even when i am asking genuinely to get a better understanding of how you can see that it is ok that billions of dollars were spent and this level of progress was made. You present this feeling of you can't even afford to waste your time responding to me because i am so stupid yet you have time to post a reply calling me all sorts? IF you don't want to discuss and show us what you genuinely see that some of us are refusing to see due to our "intellectual stubbornness" and you just expect us to take your word for it that everything is ok without failing to explain how it is ok then i am sorry, i will rather be "intellectually stubborn" than just take your word for it without any meaningful disclosure. At the end of the day if you want to defend this when you have not even explained if you think the ammount of progress made has been justified by the ammount of money spent then to each his own. Other countries have increased their power generating capacity and built power plants in this same space of time, also using EPC contracts which is used all over the world, but with us it has to be different? And then i am stupid because i have the audacity to ask why our case has to be different, like some oliver twist scared to ask for more or demand something better? To each his own, peace, have a nice day and God Bless.

debosky:
a sensationalist investigation that fails to take into cognizance the complexities of EPC projects is just that - a show.

It will not achieve any real results, other than criminalising genuine contractors and making it even more difficult to get these projects implemented

What does a house of rep person who probably rigged elections to get in know about power generation? Experts wanted to advise them, but they drove off and went to the press - all in an attempt to be seen as 'working'?

I don't think so

If turbines have been bought (usually most expensive component) and are sitting at the port and you claim 'nothing has been done' that is sheer foolishness - a turbine that took 2/3 years to order and deliver? Just to score some cheap political points? No

I'm not saying mistakes have not been made along the way, but the sensationalist nature of these 'revelations' lead me to believe people are trying to profit from this to make a name for themselves.

for people to come here and say blandly that 'nothing is on ground' is just ignorance and stupidity - the projects have not been completed - this is not like a duplex with a completed ground floor that you can sleep in while the top is being completed, this is more like a car - if you have everything and refuse to buy tyres, you still cannot move with a v8 Mercedes Benz engine.

Very interesting analogy. So let us use that same analogy. You are trying to build a car and you don't buy tyres, so without these tyres it is therefore impossible to build the main frame work, attach the gears, install the interiors, install the engine and battery and everything else that needs to run without the tyres right Why don't i be fair to you and use a more appropriate analogy, why don't we say that the turbines are equivalent to the engine. Thesame thing, because you don't have the engines you can't build the rest of the car and install the battery and interiors and put in place all the components that need to connect to the engine like the fuel pump and fuel lines right Really? There is some kind of force stopping this from happening? Wow, so these turbines were on order for 2 to 3 years? They could not find a different supplier? It had to be from argos?? I am sorry but again more and more excuses and no one is yet to answer my initial questions especially this.
Do you think all the billions of dollars spent on the power sector during OBJ's time in power has been justified by the level of progress made? More answer dodging. Have a nice day

oolumide:
It is obvious that many Nigerian leading politians are playing the if i can't be there i can scatter it syndrome. It is so obvious that many of them are just out to rubbish OBJ since they can never become president of Nigeria. Many people criticising OBJ cannot even run a local govt without financial scandal. It is so obvious that money spent on power project was largely for the design. I have said it severally that Yah adua is confused and will spend four to eight year reversing policies of previous regime just like when Tinubu took over from Marwa and was busy renaming every street and corners for the first few years.

Obj may have his fault like  sorrounding himself with cronies that are not there for him when he needed them most, I read Akinjide's comment on OBJ it was quiet unfortunate that somebody who was among those who presided over wanton looting  of Nigeria in second repurblic could come out to talk. Either will like it or not OBJ with his shortcomings has taken Nigeria to a level none of those asking for his head can ever achieve. We will all see where present govt we take Nigeria to if it continues with it go slow and directionless manner. Imagine robber like Fayose could come to talk in the public about OBJ I read his interview wiyh saturday punch and i could read a man that is as shallow minded as a goat trying to convince others to reason like him. Till now nobody has come out to link obj with anything, the reason why he gave waiver on due process was clearly stated, so as to fast track the project.

LOL, i am just shocked. WOW. Forgive my lack of patience but i really can't continue with this thread when i see posts like that. In that case then no one should feel they have the audacity to bother Yaradua. Yes people it can go both ways. You can't be expecting progress and then not wanting it at thesame time. If you are ok with accepting that billions of dollars was spent and all we got was a "design" then to each his own. But those same people should just leave Yaradua alone, let him stay for eight years and let us till then not have power. After all how are you not sure he is working on his own design too since we want to play it that way? At the end of 50 years of accumulating such "designs" we will not have power but at least we can open a design shop and begin to sell these "designs" to generate revenue. After all is said and done, if you want to defend the situation the way it is then again, to each his own. One thing i can definately agree with OBJ on is this, i pity Nigeria too. God Bless and have a nice day

Interesting, not yet finished watching it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/page/item/b00bgbqz.shtml?order=aztitle%3Aalphabetical&filter=channel%3Abbc_news24&scope=iplayerchannels&start=1&version_pid=b00bgbm7

Ok then so here are the facts. Obasanojo was in power for 8 years. In those eight years billions of dollars were spent on power. Before he got into power Nigeria had about 1500mW generating capacity. After all those billions of dollars spent Nigeria cannot generate up to 4000mW if even 3000mW. After all the money spent there are currently no power stations that can generate up to 1000mW. Nigerians spend billions of dollars on fuel and generator every year. I am sure i have left a lot out haven't i?

Ok then, so let us take OBJs own account as the gospel truth. He stated in the article that the actual capital spent on power is $6.5billion. So there, does that now make everything better? Does that now make the progress made anywhere near satisfactory or applaudable as opposed to disgrceful? If the progress is not satisfactory then why is this the case and why could it not be addressed in the 8 years he was in power? So it takes 8 years to know a bridge is needed to transport the components? Sorry, but again i see obvious failure and excuses are yet to convince me. If we can't see that the progress made in 8 years in the power sector after billions of dollars was spent is not acceptable then sorry, but i guess Nigerians better go into hibernation mode and not expect any progress for the next 50 years. Yaradua can "attempt" to build power plants after all his time in power and that would be ok.

@Afam, instead of posting another reply which would probably be fruitless because you will dismiss it and say "i don't know anything" even with the obvious mismanagement issue at hand, i just have one question to ask you and it is a simple yes or no so please enlighten me. Do you think all the billions of dollars spent on the power sector during OBJ's time in power has been justified by the level of progress made?