₦airaland Forum

DappaD:
Okay.

@bolded, Who does sonmvayina think Moses is referring to at Deuteronomy 18:15-18?

Does sonmvayina offer burnt and guilt sacrifices for the forgiveness of his sins according to the book Leviticus or not?

@italicized, I seem to remember on this nairaland that you misconstrued the meaning of Ecclesiastes 12:7 to fit your immortality of the soul concept. Don't you believe in Ecclesiastes and the other parts of the Old Testament?

Funny you.. He was referring to the next prophet, his end was drawing near.. The next prophet will be Joshua..
No burnt offering.. They are for unintentional sins, it must be a she goat, without blemish.. I do that every first Saturday of December in my village. But for other sins, God demands a sincere repentance.. I do make wrong choices, sometimes like anyone else.. but I always pull my self up and try harder next time.. There is no righteous man who never sinned.

DappaD:
See Deuteronomy 18:15 on the bolded words.


You claim to read the OT but you fail to realize that Moses, David, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, Ezekiel, Amos, Micah, Zechariah all gave corresponding prophecies about the Messiah — Jesus.

Provide the quotes from those books... I will accept Jesus as my Lord and personal saviour.. I will say it loud..

Debt. 18:15 " yaweh your God will raise a prophet like me, you will listen to him. From among you.."..

So where is the Jesus here..

Moses end was near and he was admonishing the people to listen to next prophet that God was going to raise from among the people.. The next prophet was Joshua..

What do you suppose it was talking about.?

DappaD:
Do you take the entire Old Testament as a whole? As in Genesis to Malachi? Or you choose to pick the books that suits you to obey?

Genesis to deuteronomy is the laws of God.. The others are just the history of the Jews.. And how they have been persecuted..

Dtruthspeaker:
Well and good. Do you Accept Genesis to Deuteronomy as your ground of Belief?

They contain the laws of God... I believe no man has any right to change or alter it..

Dtruthspeaker:
Ehen!

Now that you stand on what is called old Testament, then therefore many things are settled including the issuance of the Commandments.

For me, from Genesis to Leviticus (for this purposes). Is this the same for you?

genesis to Deuteronomy is the Torah...

who is God...nice video, an eye opener.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LM-8m6xWSk&t=570s

Dtruthspeaker:
All these are in what is commonly referred to as the old Testament, which I have verily declared that I am a party to it but you have still not declared if you believe and Stand on the Commandments Given to Moses on Mt. Sinai, since you are throwing it at me.

So I Repeat are you a part and party to the said Commandments given in Sinai?

yes,

it is for all mankind and it is suppose to last for ever...

this is the first part of a four part serries...enjoy


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzyOP6jg_H8

Dtruthspeaker:
Not withstanding the presentation of our seperate cases, I had clearly asked, if you uphold the old Testament?

From your statement above, is it the Commandments Given to Moses you uphold? (Because it appears you are laying parts of the Commandments Given to Our Moses by Our God as your ground of faith) Or

Is this is a part of a set of Commandments given by your own creator (different from mine) which I may or may not have seen before?

dont you think you are breaking this commandments by having a mediator and worshipping the likenes of a man? Numbers 23:19

Dtruthspeaker:
Not withstanding the presentation of our seperate cases, I had clearly asked, if you uphold the old Testament?

From your statement above, is it the Commandments Given to Moses you uphold? (Because it appears you are laying parts of the Commandments Given to Our Moses by Our God as your ground of faith) Or

Is this is a part of a set of Commandments given by your own creator (different from mine) which I may or may not have seen before?

i only gave the portion of the commandment forbidding a mediator or worshipping the likeness of a man as god...

Dtruthspeaker:
You are stopping from the Worship of the Most High and His Designates and Authorities he has placed to Govern Us.

And, since you are talking about making an informed opinion we therefore have the issue -why do I Believe the Contents of the Bible vs. why do you Reject the Bible, between us.

So you go first, lay up more light why you reject the Bible and of course be ready to defend your stand, then I'll take the stand next and defend my ground.

So over to you!

like i said earlier. the part of the bible you call the old testament was written, collected and put together by the Jews. they call it the Tanakh, it is for their national religion called Judaism.They saw them selves as God chosen people. they had a covenant with God at mount Sinai. he gave them laws and customs to follow to separate them from other people..part of the laws includes the 10 commandments..they promised to always keep it..when they deviate from it , he punishes them by sending them on exile or sending famine or disease or letting their enemies over power them.when they repent and turn to him..He forgives and blesses them and sends them messiahs (kings) to defeat their enemies..some of these messiah includes David, Solomon, or sometimes none Jews who worship him too like Nebuchadnezzar and Cyrus...they where Gods anointed or messiahs..
so when the Romans became world empire and where trying to conquer more territories . they saw that some of these places worshiped different gods..and these where leading to wars and unrest. it was emperor Constantine who wanted a single religion for his empire that gathered all the religious leaders in nicea to fashion out a single religion for the empire..they argued for almost 2 years and finally voted on Christianity. they had two options..Mithraism or Christianity...they went with Christianity..
i personally don t see the relevance of Jesus to God or to man, man's nature has not still changed. we still get to make choices. if we make wrong choices and sin,we get punished by God, in other to be right, we still have to confess our sins, try to change our ways and forsake our evil ways..God is still going to forgive us if our repentance is genuine .Jesus dying has not changed any thing..it is not a get out of jail card..so i don't really see why i should waste my time on it.. GOD never ask anybody to die for sins, IT is against natural justice. if it does not work with man, it certainly wont work with God..


tell me where God ask for the death of a messiah or his son as sacrifice for sin in the old testament, maybe i might have missed it..dont go pulling the isaiah 53 story, about a suffering servant because God already told you who is servant is in 41:8-9..

Dtruthspeaker:
You have rejected the new testament, from your statement now "What you Christians call the old testament belongs to the Jews, they wrote for their national religion called Judaism.", you have also rejected the old Testament, as is your natural right and power, therefore you have no connections with us Who Accept and Stand on the Truths of the Bible, which you Reject.

Consequently your views are wild, flagrant and very unwelcome to us for you can not give us the meat we seek and neither are we ever going to accept it.

Further, neither can we give you the meat you seek, nor would you accept it, so therefore, you really have no business on Bible based threads nor here on this thread which is founded on the Bible.

So go to your own world where there is no Bible, we are not part of it, you are not part of ours and every one has their own compound. No Trespassing!

Continue.. I am not asking you to stop worshipping Jesus. Far from it.. I am only trying to educate you to make an inform decision.. There are people that worship Messi in Barcelona and in other places round the world. They have shrines with the statues of Messi and his Jerseys.. They are still alive. Nobody is killing them. If you choose to worship a Jewish man who might or might not be a real historical figure.. Be my guest. But as for me I just follow my creators commandments.. " Do not have any other God BEFORE me". " Do not make the image or likeness of anything in heaven, on earth or under the waters below the earth, do not bow down to them or serve them".. And I refuse to go through or worship the likeness of a man as god".. Do you think God will punish me for obeying his commandments?. I go to him directly.. No mediator or intermediary... He never asked us to eat the flesh and drink the blood of the messiah in other to be saved. I consider these ritual as Roman /pagan.. I can't partake it it.. If you enjoy it and Believe in it.. Enjoy..

Thank you.

You now see the difference between you and me.

Webmannigeria:
Like i said earlier, Hold on to what you believe but it will be better to accept the TRUTH.

Truth that God impregnated another man's wife?.. A being that created heaven and earth.... Una punishment nah him go worst pass oh.. For all this insult on our creator..

You guys think if there was anything good in that Bible, that will make a black man prosper, the white man will give it to you?...

You guys should think again..

Dtruthspeaker:
Never met an Old Testament Only person before. Is that why you argue the way you do and why you have some wildly outrageous views?

Lol.. Very funny.. Outrageous views.. What you Christians call the old testament belongs to the Jews, they wrote for their national religion called Judaism..they call it the tanakh. When the Romans became world empire, they stole it.. And attached their own writing at the end of it and called the new book the Bible..
There is no where in the entire tanakh (old testament) where God said he was going to send his son, for us to murder him and Believe in his death in other to be saved.. If you can provide it I will become a Christian this night... If you can't why should I take it serious?.. It means it was never God's idea... It is a fabrication.. I can't fall for it... Time and time again God says come let us reason together, confess and forsake your evil ways, I will forgive.... Never mention of the messaiah dying for sin.. To believe those Christians assertions, you have to suspend the use of logic and your brain.. If you can, then anything is believable...

I just follow God's laws, and live each day..

graejo:
Preaching about Hell is powerful in evangelism. It presents the problem that mankind needs saving from. Why would a person think he needs to be saved, if he doesn’t know the consequence of not being saved?

THIS IS THE POINT I GOT FROM THIS MESSAGE.

Saved from what?..

Dtruthspeaker:
So according to you the new testament should not exist?

Yes, there was never any need for it.. The Jews don't have a new convenant.. It has got nothing to do with them. It is the Romans/ Greeks who attached it at the end of the Jewish scriptures.. With the sole intention of deceiving people and making mockery of the creator.

Primesky:
If Jesus is just an Idol, then you're dead and remain in your sins, and have no salvation whatsoever!. How can you even believe that?!.

Having the form of godliness but denying the power thereof. Jesus Christ is real despite the adulterations made by men.

Do t buy 99% truth and 1% lie, before God it's 100% lie.

2nd Chronicles 7 :14 "if my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and confess their sins and forsake their evil ways, I will hear from heaven and forgive their sins and heal their land"... There was never any need for Jesus, God only ask for a sincere repentance.. No human sacrifice was ever required or necessary...

Jesus has got nothing to do with God.. He was created by the Roman at the council of nicea.. Emperor Constantine wanted a single religion for his empire.. And the result was Christianity.. Educate yourself please..

He is an Idol created by Rome.... Has got nothing to do with God..

The Romans attached their fabricated new testament at the end of the Jewish scriptures to deceive the gullible.. And mock the creator of the Universe..

budaatum:
I think you should read your own original post, slowly, so you can see how many assumptions are in it.

When you are done learning what assumptions are, perhaps you'd be able to intelligently discuss the subject of your original post.

Here's something to start you off. And, good luck.

http://box5415.temp.domains/~sacreeh5/2013/06/07/carl-jung-on-rebirth-resurrection-metempsychosis/

What did I say differently each of us has a mission here on earth.. Not everyone get to complete in one life time.. Hence they have another go or chance.. Til they achieve the God Conciousness..

budaatum:
Still assumptions.

Define reincarnation. Then show me one single instance of reincarnation and I'll change my mind.

Read through the original post again... This time slowly..

budaatum:
You begin with the assumption that humans resurrect without providing evidence for your claim, despite me asking for some, then you assume a reason for human resurrection that you assumed.

Doesn't it look like assumptions to you?

Reincarnate... Not resurrect.. Big difference..

budaatum:
I already did read to the end, including the other assumptions in the op.

What is the evidence for the following assumption?

Does that look like an assumption?..

budaatum:
Quite a lot of assuming going on here! What evidence do you have for the above for instance?

Read from there to the end... The answer to your question lies therein..

lagusboyyy:
quite insightful and educative, but highly complex and trickish.

If i may ask, which religion do you practice sir?

I just follow God's laws to have a fulfilling and fruitful life..

You’re right, G‑d is essentially unknowable. Yes, He makes Himself known to us through His miracles, His prophets, His laws, and by the very act of creating and sustaining our world and our very existence. But none of that can really provide information that defines who He is. Because He cannot be defined. He is infinite, even beyond “the beginning that cannot be known.”

So how can we pray or have any relationship with a being so unknowable, so undefinable, He can hardly be called a being?

The answer is because our relationship with G‑d is not measured by our capacity to understand Him, nor by heightened consciousness or any sublime ecstasy we claim to have from the experience of His presence. Our relationship to G‑d is measured by what we do, by our firm adherence to the morals that He has established for us and by our integrity in our dealings with others.

One who claims he has one G‑d, but cheats his fellow, has in fact two gods. One who claims he is godless, but believes in a fixed and immutable moral law is in fact a believer. Ultimately, G‑d is in your life when you act G‑dly—consistently following His ways in all you do. That is why He has given us His laws so that by following these instructions, we can bond with Him in our daily lives.

G‑d is not an idea that can be grasped with the mind. G‑d is real, and reality is grasped by real deeds.

lagusboyyy:
" death is like a night between two days and life is like a day between two nights"

This is so deep, i would appreciate if you could break this down.

Life is a day that lies between two nights—the night of "not yet," before birth, and the night of "no more," after death. That day may be overcast with pain and frustration, or bright with warmth and contentment. But, inevitably, the night of death must arrive.

Death is a night that lies between two days—the day of life on earth and the day of eternal life in the world to come. That night may come suddenly, in the blink of an eye, or it may come gradually, with a slowly receding sun.

As the day of life is an interlude, so is the night of death an interlude. As the day inevitably proceeds to dusk, so does the darkness inevitably proceed to dawn. Each portion—the foetal existence, and life, and death, and eternal life—is separated by a veil which human understanding cannot pierce.

We, the survivors who do not accompany the deceased on their journey into the night, are left alone staring into the veiled, black void. There is a rage of conflicting emotions that seethes within us: bewilderment and paralysis, agony and numbness, guilt and anger, fear and futility and pain —and also emancipation from care and worry. The golden chain of the family link is broken and swings wildly before our eyes. Our whole being is convulsed. Love and warmth and hope have vanished, and in their place remains only despair. The precious soul that touched our life and enhanced its sense of purpose and meaning is no more. Our only consolation is that he once was. There is a past, but the past is no more; and the future is bleak indeed. The broken, swinging chain hypnotizes us and we are frozen.

The igbo omenala is a faith that embraces all of life, and death is a part of life. As this faith leads us through moments of joy, so does it guide us through the terrible moments of grief, holding us firm through the complex emotions of mourning, and bidding us turn our gaze from the night of darkness to the daylight of life.

At the moment of death painful questions gnaw at our innards—existential and philosophical problems so stubborn, they will not go away: Why was this person, of all the people that fill our great world, fated to end his days just now? Why did the end come before the logic of life ordained that it come? Death should be, we feel, a sum under the bottom line—a total of all of life's varied experiences. It should add up to a meaningful conclusion, and end naturally. It should not intrude in the midst of the equations of living, starkly disrupting all calculations, confusing all the figures, belying all the prepared solutions. But, too often, the end is abrupt. Life remains an unknown quality large, incalculable problem, bedevilled by death.

At the moment of death there is severe disorientation. We are perplexed not only by the large questions of life and death, but by problems of how to feel and how to conduct ourselves properly: How shall we react to the tragedy? What is the proper respect that we should give the dead? How do we achieve a measure of dignity during an interment? Shall we mourn the unfulfilled life of the deceased, torn away before finishing the business of living, or may we feel a loss to ourselves, agonizing over our own personal distress?

And how should we comfort ourselves? Should we appear before family and friends brave, dignified, courageously unruffled? Or may we give vent to our anguish in a stream of tears? Shall the usual amenities of a social occasion obtain at the gathering of the family, or should we concern ourselves with the soul-wound of our own loss and let the world manage for itself?

Thousands of years of our rich tradition provide us with direction during these moments of crisis. The accumulated wisdom of the ages is a source of great consolation.

In the pages that follow, you will find clear guidelines that the Jewish tradition has laid down to lead mourners through the complex maze of uncertainties and ambivalences that attend the tragic moment. The ache of the heart will not suddenly disappear. There will be no miraculous consolation. But our tradition does teach the aching heart how to express its pain in love and respect, and how to achieve the eventual consolation which will restore us to humanity and keep us from vindictiveness and self-pity.

What is death? This is best answered with another question: What is life?

Life is the integration of soul and body—the self and its physical vehicle—into a single entity. Death is the dissolution of body and soul into two separate entities—a separation of the spiritual self from that which was once a vehicle to that self . the self is the soul, not the body. The body will inevitably fail and The soul is eternal and indestructible. The stretch of physical time in which the soul resides within and acts through the body is just one phase—though a most important phase—of its existence, an existence which precedes physical life and extends beyond it. The soul of the person we knew and loved as a physical being on this earth continues to exist after his or her death, continues to be aware of that which transpires in our lives, and continues to be the recipient of our love and the positive actions we do on his or her behalf.

But also for the body, death is not the end. A fundamental principle of the Jewish faith is the belief in techiat ha-meitim, ("resurrection of the dead"--that in the future, divinely-perfect "World to Come," the soul will be restored to a rebuilt and revitalised body.

Each individual soul is dispatched to the physical world with its own individualized mission to accomplish. we all have the same laws, but each of us has his or her own set of challenges, distinct talents and capabilities, and particular strength which form the crux of his or her mission in life.

At times, a soul may not conclude its mission in a single lifetime. In such cases, it returns to earth for a “second go” to complete the job. This is the concept of gilgul neshamot—commonly referred to as “reincarnation”—extensively discussed in the teachings of Kabbalah.This is why we often find ourselves powerfully drawn to a particular cause and make it the focus of our lives, dedicating to it a seemingly disproportionate part of our time and energy: it is our soul gravitating to the “missing pieces” of its divinely ordained purpose.

I. The wholly spiritual existence of the soul before it enters the body;
2. Physical life;
3. Post-physical life in Gan Eden (the “Garden of Eden,” also called “Heaven” and “Paradise”);
4.the “world to come” (olam haba) that follows the resurrection of the dead.
What are these four phases, and why are all four necessary?

lagusboyyy:
" death is like a night between two days and life is like a day between two nights"

This is so deep, i would appreciate if you could break this down.

One of the fundamental beliefs of Judaism is that life does not begin with birth, nor does it end with death. This is articulated in the verse in Kohelet (Ecclesiastes), “And the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to G‑d, who gave it.”1

The Lubavitcher Rebbe would often point out that a basic law of physics (known as the First Law of Thermodynamics) is that no energy is ever “lost” or destroyed; it only assumes another form. If such is the case with physical energy, how much more so a spiritual entity such as the soul, whose existence is not limited by time, space, or any of the other delineators of the physical state. Certainly, the spiritual energy that in the human being is the source of sight and hearing, emotion and intellect, will and consciousness does not cease to exist merely because the physical body has ceased to function; rather, it passes from one form of existence (physical life as expressed and acted via the body) to a higher, exclusively spiritual form of existence.

While there are numerous stations in a soul’s journey, these can generally be grouped into four general phases:

You want to know God... Look in the mirror.

IMAliyu:
You return to the constituent materials that make you up and become part of the earth once more.
This is what we know happens 100%.

What happens to your consciousness and anything else is subject to speculation.

I concur 100%,..God is consciousness personified.. Our Conciousness becomes one with God. It was God who sent it fort to begin with... Most likely waiting for another opportunity to experience life again