₦airaland Forum

50d33q:
An example was city v wolves
Jimenez was booked for a foul, city tried to play fast free kick Jimenez got involved again and he got the marching order without warning

Yes. That's because the caution was issued before the second offense.

Jiminez commits a foul.

Jiminez receives a yellow card.

Jiminez blocks the passage of the ensuing free kick.

Jiminez gets another yellow which automatically means a red.

Roland17:
Now you have deviated and now bringing Chelsea and United. Well, let me indulge you. Despite employing the “Agbero” style, Chelsea did not amass 23 yellow cards and 4 red cards in the space of 2 months with 2 weeks international breaks inbetween the 2 months. I will go you one further with Burnley and Stoke City. Both teams are renowned to be physical sides but guess what? They finish their games with 11 men and have fewer cautions.

Employing a physical tactics, what you call “Agbero” doesn’t imply that you become reckless and throw caution to the wind and just cop yellow cards. At some point, those cards add up or you suffer a red card which makes games more complicated than it should have been.

To your question, you get 1 free kick, however, the free kick doesn’t absolve you from a caution (be it yellow, red or a talking to by the ref) which supports my point that an advantage is played to favor the attacking team, not the defending team. Referees have gone back full 60 seconds after the expiration of an advantage to card fouls, we see this all the time.

https://dailycannon.com/2022/02/martinelli-red-card/

1. Yellow is a caution, if you're not gonna caution then give a straight red. Issuing two cautions just to throw in a red is emotional and laughable.

2. An advantage is given if the ball is t out of play, if Martinelli pushed the player before the throwing, then the ball is out of play, there's no advantage to be given. Allowing the throw to stand means nullifying the presumed foul since the ball was initially out of play.

3. When you give an advantage, and another foul is committed in the same sequence or path of play, you award the caution to the more dangerous one. If the tackle was injurious, simply award a straight red to the second tackle. We have seen this happen several times.

This was poor bias officiating and Michael Oliver has made himself a laughable reference point. Unless the PL clamps down on this it will happen again as other refs will point to this incident. I believe Oliver will get a demotion next week.

Roland17:
For clarification

Both incidents are officiated as separate incidents, not lumped into one.

Playing an advantage is called to favor the attacking team, not the defending team.

Both incidents are yellow card worthy (Martinelli pushed another player to the ground, we have seen straight red cards for such incidents before, he intentionally tried to delay the game/ stop the flow of the game by blocking a throw and recklessly jabbed into another player from behind.

The referee will only stop plays including advantage plays when it is a straight Red card situation or health situation.

Despite being an Arsenal fan, it is okay to be objective sometimes and not allow emotions control your thoughts and narratives.

I have seen a player foul two opponents in a sequence, yet got one caution.

Roland17:
Teams go hard/physical with sense without putting their own team in dangerous situations because it becomes counterproductive. We were silly while employing the “Agbero” style and it nearly cost us the game.
We were already on 3 yellow cards by the 60th minute, that meant we were not utilizing the “agbero” style well and were pushing our luck.

Let me ask you 3 questions, I need yes or no answers only.

1. Is pushing Podence when he was attempting to start an attack with a throw a foul?

2. Is blocking a throw and time wasting a foul? Was it a deserving of a yellow card?

3. Is intentionally jabbing into an opponent from behind to stop play a yellow card?

Well, the agbero style did work a lot for Chelsea with Diego Costa, and United during the time of Ferdinand etc. We may not be getting it right now, but if that agbero mentality sits in, it will definitely favour us and I will be happy.

As for your questions, the answer to all is yes. But let me ask you mine, if all three happen in the same path of play, how many freekicks will be given?

Roland17:
Your school of thought is reactionary and short termed, I am proactive, holistic and long-termed. I think it is sad to read that we are failing to see that what Martinelli did was absolutely wrong! The burden of the blame lays on Martinelli for me, he should have known better. There was absolutely no sense of awareness when he made those decisions in one sequence. In professional sports, there is a saying that you should never allow the ref to impose himself by making bone head decisions and that was what Martinelli did. While some referees are renowned for wanting to be at the center of the party, we invited Oliver into this one and boy did he have a good day!

Was the ref wrong? quite debatable because I understand why he played the advantage, it is called an advantage for a reason but Martinelli’s? come one!!! Martinelli is a professional football, he knows that intentionally stopping a play is a caution. Baba, every professional footballer knows that if you prevent the continuation of play by standing in front of the ball without giving the required space is a yellow card. Why do you think players intentionally kick the ball into opponents feet who fail to give the required space and the opposing player is issued a yellow card. Preventing a throw, blocking or holding a goalie from starting an attack, all these things are card situations, they know this na!

Further more, referees understand the flow and momentum of the game. Prior to Martinelli’s incident, Gabu, my boy had been issued a yellow card for time wasting, that was the 3rd player to receive a caution before the Martinelli incident. Evidently, we were wasting time by the 60th minute of the game and time wasting is against the rules of the game. It was a lack of discipline and the fact that we have failed to address our in field indiscipline that made Martinelli lose his sense of situational football.

Finally, I am not deterred by Arteta’s gang who read my posts with already preconceived bias without necessarily reading to understand my perspective on issues affecting my team. Indiscipline on and off the field is a team issue, I only raised it but if course, the preconceived bias is already lingering. Many times, the experienced heads in teams help resolve them, especially on field indiscipline situations like cards. There is a reason why you have a captain on the field. After the 3rd yellow card, someone on the field should have reminded the team of our card situation and warn the team to be cautious and sensible but no, we continued with bone head, irrational decisions because that is what we have been doing.

I won’t be shocked to read that I now hate my boys Martinelli and Gabu! Wait for it..

Are you in essence blaming Martinelli's indiscipline for the refs rash decision? Because that's where I am coming from.

We can talk indiscipline, but what I am saying here is that the ref made the wrong call. That's it.

Besides, I like the agbero mentality. I like that we can use unconventional approaches just to get ahead. Remember we have been accused of being too soft and lacking cojones. But here we are showing we can be mad and ruthlessly dubious if need be. The referees will soon get used to us just as they have gotten used to other teams. Afterall, other teams do same or even worse and get away.

Roland17:
You are absolutely far from the truth about indiscipline. When people talk about the disciplinary record of a team/ player, what do think they are looking for? When you pull up disciplinary record of a team, what comes up? Let me give you a clue, yellow/ red cards! There is a reason players pay for the yellow/ red cards they get during games.

Nwanne, indiscipline is not merely associated to off the field issues like arriving late to training, returning late from travels without explanations, partying/ clubbing, disrespect, fighting with team mates/ coaches. Martinelli, blocking a throw attempt and in the same sequence running to foul another player from the back is indiscipline. Diving into reckless tackles consistently like Xhaka does is indiscipline. Amassing a whopping 23 yellow cards/ 4 red cards in 2 months is the highest evidence of indiscipline in a team that you need, especially when you consider we had international breaks in between. These numbers speak to a lack of accountability and a lack of consciousness of situational football.

When team plan/ scout opponents, do you think they are just scouting their tactics and best players? Do you realize they also scout the disciplinary record (number of cautions/ dismissals) of their opponents? These little details are employed into the tactics of the game as a weapon to win games. It is so bad that bettors are now placing bets on Xhaka and by extension the team. There are off-field disciplinary issues and there are on-field disciplinary issues and most times they are related and feed off each other.

Nwanne your point is clear. I am not disputing that our disciplinary records are terrible. You are absolutely spot on.

But the argument I think is if the referee got the call right. Two fouls in the same sequence does not warrant two cautions. A caution is a caution unless the ref feels the second tackle was a dangerous one, which in this case is a straight red. Two yellows in one sequence of play is enotional, unprofessional and totally off the rule books.

Roland17:
The short sightedness continues..

Baba, like I said, na me go find trouble. I should have respected my self by writing that post on a standalone, not quoting anyone. Now I know better.

I think the argument was about the referees decision and not indiscipline issues on our players. Indiscipline is another issue entirely.

VillageBus:
Guy the reff decision was correct, the two fouls are bookable offence.

When isolated they can be two bookable offenses, but since they occured within the same sequence, it's regarded as one event.

Take for example, if one commits a hand ball while giving a rough tackle, he only receives one free kick against. And definitely one caution

50d33q:
Oga ref did nothing wrong
He got what he deserved, stop looking for excuse it's becoming arsenal.
How do you explain Gabriel getting booked in the 60 something minute for time wasting who does that
Roland brought a stat instead of you to look at the bigger picture you are here complaining about ref

If you want to talk about indiscipline no problems but then dont use it as an excuse for the refs stupidity.

Roland17:
Before the Martinelli incident, we already had 3 players (Partey/ Xhaka/ Gabriel) on yellow cards, I even alluded to this in my previous post. Listen, we can continue to blame referees and everybody else or look inward and acknowledge we have a serious in/out field discipline issue that needs to be addressed.

Are you aware that in 2 months, (since December 2021), we have amassed 23 YELOW CARDS/ 4 RED CARDS, it is only February! Does this seem normal to you? Forget sentiments, we have a problem that needs to be addressed.

FYI

mostob:
e shock you? E shock me too.

This is the only way they can get back at black players. Racism is still embedded in Europeans.

Zouma fined 250k, Adidas ends his endorsement deal, people asking for West Ham to terminate his contract.... for kicking a cat,

Jodera:
Since you agree they're not the same then it means even the core principles governing both are not the same... So what are we talking about?

In relation to our discuss, who told you the player B will be angry or feeling sad that a top club bought him instead of player A? Person wey go dey thank God say top club don buy am

Do you know how Mahrez was brought to Leicester? Even the plan A player, I don forget who him be, and nobody(not even Leicester) will remember that he was an "other option"

Akara, moi moi, and jollof beans are not the same. But they all have the same core ingredient.

It's not the player but the club that will feel they didn't get exactly what they really wanted.

It's natural.

Cases like Mahrez plenty na. Please note that I am not saying the second choice won't shine or even out shine the first, it happens every day. But until that happens, it remains a second choice.

.

Jodera:
Arthur Melo wasn't seeing shirt in juve, in fact he met most of your criteria for a risky signing yet the board went for him. If they can see Arthur and make a move for him, what stops them from having a plan B, or na only Melo get such short term attribute?

Good question.

I think it's his background that we are trying to bank on. He was from Barcelona who paid bug for him as a big potential. We also know that Juventus got him for a big fee due to his quality. I don't know why he isn't making it in Turin, probably there are more players in favour of the manager. It's a calculated risk and that's why we refused making it longer than 6months or being pushed by Juventus to make it permanent.

Jodera:
You know I meant romantic relationship, don't claim sly as if you don't know I'm talking about romantic relationship.
Or are you saying business and romantic relationship is the same?

They are not the same. But the principles are the same for all forms of human relationships.

That's why when people start selling something they expect their relations to patronise them instead of their competitors. The principles of all human relationships are they same and are all based on emotions, intelligence and psychology.

In relation to our discuss, if we tried to sign a player and spend the entire window chasing that person, if the person doesn't join, whoever we go for as a substitute will feel sour in mouths, because we will still be wondering how it would be if we got the first guy. While that doesn't mean the substitute will never turn good or even better, he remains A SECOND CHOICE. Hence, it's said that quality has no substitute or plan B.

Jodera:
Lol.. Reason why I said it's loan not buy.
What we did for ceballos is great cos he helped us plugged in the gap while he was here even tho he was inconsistent, but at least most people here will prefer a ceballos to an elneny or lokonga for a short term loan. And that's my point.

Every window is a risk be it Jan or summer window.

Exactly. That's why you don't just loan anyone as you said before. Because they may just be useless.

We tried to get A Melo, but it didn't work out. That doesn't mean we should just go and pick someone else as if we are using a loan app.

Jodera:
Lol, are you comparing business with relationship??

You think business people care about the bolded??

Business is relationship. Many businesses have Relationship Managers.

Jodera:
There are relative substitute that is quality also. Numerous examples abound so I don't know where you got this your philosophical quote from. Except of course you're using it out of context

It's simple.

You have two options, you choose one for a reason, that automatically makes the other less in value no matter how it's viewed.

Imagine a girl wants to choose between you and another guy. She chose him and informs you. That will make you feel bad, so that even if she comes back to you, you will most certainly reject her.

Jodera:
You are just talking opinions just to win argument or sort cos I no just understand the bolded from you.
There have been great bargains in January transfer with odegaard recently an example and lingard another example for west ham. All what the club needs to do is to identify good players who aren't too seeing game time at their parent club or unhappy at their parent club then request for loan. That's it.

Which transfer window business isn't a risk I ask?

There are risk, but some are bigger. I'd say we are lucky with Odegaard because Madrid has many replacements. Ordinarily, they will not sell him to us if they feel he is top class quality. We also paid well for him. We had the same thing with Cebalos but refused to sign him.

I am not saying it's impossible, but it's a big risk taking a player not wanted by his club.

mostob:
Heard Pepe might be converted to CF.

Abeg, make Dem issue am shoot at sight order... Dancing shakushaku in front of an empty net is dangerous to we the fans health.

He surely has an eye for goal. I have always been an advocate of him playing the support striker role because he is a box player. Pepe is only dangerous when inside the box, outside it he is an aboki.

50d33q:
Remove that useless one season wonder snake that felt on top of the world after everything we did for him

Lol

But in terms of ability, he is close to Henry.

50d33q:
Lads
Pick your front 3
Mehn this is really hard to pick, apart from rvp and maybe giroud every other players deserve a shot

Bergkamp, Henry and Van Persie

Jodera:
That you have plan B doesn't mean the plan B lacks quality or is inferior to plan A. There's always what is called Contingency plan.

If my plan A is lewy and my plan B is Kane. That I'm going for Kane doesn't mean Kane lacks the quality that can improve the team(if lewy availability is difficult) and that's exactly what I'm saying.

Quality has no substitute is a philosophy

Jodera:
I'm just angry that there's no plan B. Simple.

Are you saying if our plan B is someone like Jovic(on loan) for example it'll be a bad idea?

You are now sounding as if it will be an online loan application from a loan company. Pardon me. Any player his club is willing to release on loan most likely is a big risk unless they just want to fleece us.

Jodera:
While I agree the club did away with deadwoods but adding one or two players especially in Cm and striking department would have aided us especially for injuries, red card and covid. Xhaka is always erratic, we're lucky that Partey have shrugged off his injury this season but then we just pray it continues so. Elneny is just there(not plus, not minus) plus Arteta doesn't trust him, while lokonga is inexperienced.

If anything happens to xhaka and partey again, we're done for plus the first point of call for Arteta is to draft in Odegaard to Cm(to partner Sambi) and we know how ineffective odegaard is there.

Striking department nko? If Lacazette just have any issue, mehn, then just know we'll have either 1 point or 0 point going into a game. You guys might have confidence in nketiah but I don't. I don't see Martinelli in the cf role anytime soon under Arteta

You are still sounding as if no effort was made to sign a top striker and a midfielder.

Jodera:
I know I was among those clamouring for lacazette to start over Auba against Man u. But that as an aside, while your point is valid, but then For a player pointing finger at his manager for how it left might be taken with a pinch of salt. But if 3 or more are pointing finger at same manager, then maybe we really need to look at the manager.

I don't know the inside runnings of what transpired inside Emirates, but if Ozil, Saliba, and now Auba (I don't want to even talk chambers) all point fingers towards Arteta, then maybe it's really something we should be concerned about.

Are you blaming Arteta for holding out for discipline?

That's funny. I think you're bias

50d33q:
Stop lying, Melo deal was on us
Juve want 18months loan with obligation to buy that's the best deal we could get
But these dumbasses want 6 months loan

A Melo that was finding it difficult to make the bench in Juventus. Arsenal only wanted him to make the numbers hoping that he could turn out good before summer.

Besides Juves point was clear, they must get a replacement before they release him. They paid heavily to sign him from Barca.

BlueRayDick:
All this one Na cap. Weghort was signed by burnley for less than 15millon. I mean that’s a 6 fit 6in striker who scored 20 league goals last season in the Bundesliga .

The question is where arsenal dey our eyes when such players are available ? Why arsenal like to dey pursue player that are either uninterested in us or those whose aspirations are too high for arsenal level?

Imagine us going for Weghort instead of chasing shadows with that Serbian guy I will never know how to spell his name correctly ? Why we dey close eyes to better things wey dey within our reach ?

Lol.

Weg what? Abeg rest.

There are many pretenders in the world.

Our own Lokonga was captain of Anderlecht.

If we must sign a striker to bench Lacazette, he has to be undoubtedly top class. I have personally monitored many strikers across Europe, it's only Harland and Mbappe, (apart from the older guys) that can better Vlahovic.

Besides, quality having no substitute is a philosophy. You can choose to accept or reject it

Jodera:
This bolded is false and you know it.

Well, I go just dey watch. But my hope now has been drastically reduced tbh. It seems teams around us have grown even stronger and that's my worry (taking 3 point off them). Tottenham, Aston villa, Everton et al

How is quality having no plan B is false?

Jodera:


Did we really sign a defender? I didn't even notice sef

We signed him for next season

Jodera:
Lol, did I say dey should sign scrap?
Why is it that when one thinks of loaning player, the only thing you'll think of is deadwood? Why spy why??

So Arthur melo is the only midfielder in all Europe we can get on loan shebi? It's either him or nobody else.

Why I admire the club for going in for vlahovic, do you really mean they actually don't have plan B?

Why is it that plan B dey hard for this club most times and you're always happy with it. Is it that we can't have a plan B that is quality too? That's what you're telling us?

In terms of quality, there is no plan B. A plan B means someone lesser in quality than you actually desire.

Arsenal did make enquiries for Isak, but I believe they must have decided to leave any deal till summer and keep Nketiah instead.

We also tried to get Tielemans, but again chose to leave it till summer.

I believe (I think Arteta should too, no excuses) that the squad is good enough to challenge for top 4 bearing in mind the current state of the league and our rivals.

Someone may say what if injuries or COVID happen, I'd say there's no excuse. Besides I have seen where such took out the whole Comoros team, and almost half of Tunisia in the AFCON and they both still did well.