₦airaland Forum

Janosky:
The Hebrew lexicon 6399 translated "Serve" meaning Worship @ Deuteronomy 6:13, Deuteronomy 10:20 & Matthew 4:10 is DIFFERENT from Hebrew lexicon 5647 also translated "Serve" meaning reverence (deep respect and admiration) @ Daniel 7:14.

The screenshot PROVEN evidences removes any iota of doubt as to the genuine meaning of Daniel 7:14, that is ,respect/admiration for the son of man.

I didn't ask you the meaning of serve but the original hebrew translation and its contextual use.
The word interpreted as serve in that Daniel is palack or something like that, it is only used for the true God yahweh.

TheMadame:
Good day to my brothers and sisters in Christianity. May the Lord be with all of us. May the Lord refresh us and give us the knowledge to attain everlasting life in heaven.
Please I write to seek knowledge on a topic which distressed me. This is the dichotomy between the God of the new testament and God in the old testament of our holy Bible.
The God in the Old testament comes across as very angry over issues,while the God of new testament comes across as kind and loving . Benevolent, forgiving, blessing and the father of all creation,while the old testament of the Bible reflects God as only for the nation of Israel. I welcome any explanation with Bible passages to enlighten
God bless as you contribute to this discourse. Apologies for poor spelling and please let us avoid insulting language.
Thank you.

It is the same God but two different convenants. The first covenant is base on Israel keeping the law and failure to do so attract severe punishment.
The second covenant is based on the finish work of Jesus christ on the cross in which christ bears the penalty of sins for those who put their trust in him.

MaxInDHouse:
With all the evidences i think it's time to leave you with whatever you want to believe there's no sense in this back and forth debate.

atleast present one, just one is enough.

Go and worship with those you're sure that are having the same line of thought with you as for us we are doing fine with our Faith in Jehovah!

So far you have not being able to prove anything, I have clearly presented scriptures to you, showing you that Jesus is truly God and truly man.8
I showed you Daniel 7 vv 14 where Jesus recieve service that is meant only for the true God.
Shown you that Jesus has absolute power,
I have also shown why Jesus called a servant which is because he took that form willingly.

I have also showed you where Jesus is prayed to by Stephen, Paul and entire Christian church.

This is enough evidence for now.

MaxInDHouse:
This is what happened!

As they were stoning Stephen, he made this appeal: “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60 Then, kneeling down, he cried out with a strong voice: “Jehovah, do not charge this sin against them.” And after saying this, he fell asleep in death! Act 7:59-60

Is there any manuscript that that interpreted Lord as Jehovah?

He spoke to Jesus as the person he recognized but to Jehovah he knelt and prayed!



It's mistranslation that's confusing them!

The title LORD was used in most Bible versions as replacement for the divine name "JEHOVAH" that's why many readers don't know the meaning of what they're reading in the Bible.

what evidence do you have for this?

For instance David used JEHOVAH'S name in all his Psalms but since translators replaced the divine name with the title "LORD" the sense of what he's saying was lost.

Please read this verses in your copy of the Bible and tell me who was David referring to:

Jehovah is my Shepherd. I will lack nothing. Psalm 23:1

Jehovah declared to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.” Psalm 110:1

Joel also said:

"And everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved; For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be those who escape, just as Jehovah has said, The survivors whom Jehovah calls" Joel 2:32

You will notice that in your copy of the Bible @ Psalm 110:1 the translators rendered it this way:

"The LORD said to my Lord" and apostle Peter confirmed that Jesus is the small Lord Jehovah was talking to {Act 2:34-36} but when the translators wanted to write where Paul quoted Joel they confused their readers:

For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved" Romans 10:13

That's why misinformed churchgoers are taking Jesus for Jehovah!

Do you have any older manuscripts that has Jehovah instead of Lord in it?

According to Paul, the Christian church called upon Jesus.
1 Corinthians 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

Why did the early Christians call upon Jesus instead of Jehovah?

MaxInDHouse:
How many disciples of Jesus did you know?

It was only the names of twelve out of his numerous disciples that were mentioned in the gospels because he made them Apostles {Luke 6:13} so Stephen has been one of those not mentioned by name in the gospels but he was with them all along! Act 6:5-6

But you assumed Stephen knew Jesus face to face without any proof. Any way isn't Stephen supposed to commit his spirit to Jehovah?

Prayer is when you're speaking to an unseen supernatural being but when you're seeing the person directly it's no longer a prayer!

But Paul was not seeing the Lord at the moment of prayer
That by the way side,
Why did the whole Christiandom call upon the name of the Lord instead of the name of Jehovah?
1 Corinthians 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

Can you give example of the early church call upon Jehovah's name.

MaxInDHouse:
Stephen was looking at Jesus standing at God's right hand, the person he could relate with in that scenario is Jesus whom he knew face to face as one of his disciples.

Stephen did not know Jesus face to face, he was not among the disciples who was with Jesus during his ministry on earth.
Why did Stephen choose to commit his spirit into Jesus hands, was he not suppose to follow Jesus example who committed his spirit to Jehovah's hands, Stephen literally saw Jesus standing at Jehovah's right hand side yet choose instead to commit his spirit to Jesus who so?

When Stephen called upon Jesus was he calling upon Jehovah or Jesus?

So he talked to Jesus just as they always do when he was with them but when it comes to prayers Jesus directed all his disciples to pray to God not him! Matthew 6:6

But Stephen prayed to Jesus. Why did Paul prayed to Jesus in 1 Corinthians 1:1–2?

MaxInDHouse:
That's the point!

So all worshipers are to face Jehovah with their petitions {Matthew 6:6; Philippians 4:6} just as Jesus also approach God with his own petitions {Hebrews 5:7} but when talking about how to do Jehovah's will we must all congregate in the name of Jesus who will join and lead us {Matthew 18:20} in the worship of our God and father JEHOVAH! John 20:17

Why then did Stephen prayed to Jesus, or is Stephen not a worshipper of Jehovah?
According to scriptures the spirit of man returns to who?
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

MaxInDHouse:
So when Pharaoh of Egypt gave Joseph the ring as the ruler of ALL Egypt Pharaoh was no longer on his throne, shey? Genesis 41:41-44

It doesn't mean Pharaoh is no longer on the throne but Joseph became the absolute power over Egypt of cause this excludes Pharaoh.

Janosky:
Oga, stop TWISTING the holy scriptures.

I am not. Why don't you paste the Hebrew translation and it's usage let's see.

Janosky:
Oga, the screenshots PROVEN you are TWISTING the holy scriptures and at the same time, TWISTING the word "serve" which means deep respect and admiration."

Daniel 3:18 provides lucid evidences that serve (Hebrew lexicon 6399) is NOT Worship.

Screenshots evidences.....

what does worship mean?
The word translated as "serve " is peculiar to service to the only true God, not kings.

There two word translated as serve in the old testament one is general service to both men, and true God but the second is strictly the true God.

Janosky:
@John 15:15, in heaven,Jesus Christ is receiving instructions and teachings from God his Father, but you doubt that he is a servant in heaven.

I don't doubt that he is a servant but he took the form on his self, it was not original.

It pleases the God his Father to grant Jesus that privilege.


@ Matthew 4:10, Jesus Christ says you are on your own.

Hebrew1:6, the Catholic New Jerusalem Bible published by Trinitarians, also said "Oga Steep, you are on your own"


@ Daniel 7:14, son of man references Jesus Christ.

It pleases the father that Jesus should have the exact same honor that he has? Yes it sure did because Jesus is God.

Janosky:
1 Corinthians 15:24-27 & 1 Corinthians 11:3, Oga Steep, where is your absolute authority coming from?

what does having "all power" mean to you

Janosky:
Oga Steep is a polytheist who claims he Worship the only true God and another true God.

Oga, continue DECEIVING YOURSELF..

You are the polytheist here who believe Jehovah is merely a senior god among other gods.

Janosky:
No,Sir.

John 15:15 & Matthew 6:9, in heaven Jesus Christ learnt how to pray & was taught by God his Father.
On earth he passed on the teaching that God taught him (Jesus)..

whether God his father taught him how to pray or not I'd not the issue. Jesus prayed because he was a human being.

Matthew 20:28 & Hebrew1:14 ,is Jesus Christ a ministering spirit in human form?
Yes!
Is Jesus Christ a servant of God's in the spiritual realm.
Revelation 3:2,5 confirmed that.
Yes !
Oga, please don't DECEIVE YOURSELF.

Actually Hebrews disproved the idea that Jesus is an angel.
Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Revelation 3vv 2,5 was after Jesus had willingly taken up the form a servant.

Oga,When did giving someone an assignment to perform for you meaning that he has final say?

John 7:16

yes, when you give someone total power to rule your establishment you have given him absolute power over that establishment.

Janosky:
Isaiah 42:8 Jehovah God does NOT share His glory with Idols & pagans, unbelievers.
Referenced as "another" in Isaiah 42:8.
John 17:7,22,24, Jesus Christ shares his Father's glory with the disciples/co rulers in heaven.

So Jehovah can share his glory with his angels right?

Janosky:
Oga Steep ,read the screenshot thesaurus.
Synonyms for Sent = Ordered.
The screenshot PROVEN evidence PROVEN that John 3:16, Jesus Christ spoke the truth.

Didn't you read in Phillipians that Jesus took the form of a servant?
Jesus came as a servant of God but he was not a servant at all.

Janosky:
The revelation of Jesus that the God Almighty gave Jesus, Revelation 1:1 & John 17:7.
The God Almighty OWNS the Revelation given to His son, Jesus.
Somebody sent you to read His speech at an event.
You get to the event of the speech & be LYING that you,the Reader owns the speech.
Revelation 3:2, Jesus Christ has conveyed God's disapproval of your Trinitarian posture tayy tayy.

Didn't you read that it is the revelation of Jesus christ

You are the polytheist pagan here.
You believe there are Many deities and Jehovah is only a senior deity.

Oga Steep,Trinity is making you TWIST the holy scriptures.
John 15:15, who is teaching Jesus Christ?
John 15:15 & Matthew 6:9, Oga Steep, where did Jesus Christ learn how to pray?
Did Jesus receive that teaching in heaven?


Your fellow Trinitarian,Bill Mounce Interlinear Greek,Phillipians 2:6 PROVEN screenshot evidence that Jesus had NOT equality to grasp.

Trinitarians thought it not robbery to ADD & TWIST Phillipians 2:6.
"Thought it not robbery" doesn't even appear in the Greek manuscript.

"Thought it not rubbery" is an English translation not Greek.
Did you even read what you wrote?
Jesus is in the form of God.
Go and check what forme mean in Greek?

MaxInDHouse:
A king must be served that's why they're called "LORD" so if Jesus is King of God's kingdom he will surely be served just like other kings.
The truth remains that Jesus is not the Almighty God who asked Jesus to sit at his right hand! Psalm 110:1

Do you offer kings the service rendered to Jehovah?
Jesus is not served like other kings, he is served as Jehovah God himself it is in the bible.

MaxInDHouse:
OBEISANCE is for the one who is supreme so since Jesus always do the will of his father he is qualified to lead because whatever orders comes from his mouth is automatically what his father told him.

I told you the word translated as serve in reference to Jesus in Daniel 7vv14 is not obeisance. Why don't you check it up yourself? It is service offered only to Jehovah.

You have seen several verses pointing to the fact that Jesus is not the same as Jehovah so if you're still interested in your trinity no one is holding you back we have been freed from the lies of trinity Jehovah is One God not three in One! Deuteronomy 6:4 compare to Mark 12:29

Neither did I say Jehovah is three gods in one.
However, that does not mean we should close our eyes to the truth.

MaxInDHouse:
Who told you that?

Daniel 7vv14, the Hebrew word interpreted as serve is specifically reserved only for Jehovah.

MaxInDHouse:
Serve in what sense?

Are you saying all those under God's kingdom in ancient Israel weren't serving King David?

The kind of sevice given to God, which includes worship.
Jesus recieves the exact same type of services meant for Jehovah alone.
Why?

MaxInDHouse:
It's confused trinitarians that translated that word as "WORSHIP" the correct rendering is "OBEISANCE" which means "OBEDIENCE to" according to God's will all creatures must learn obedience from Jesus because as a spirit being in heaven for countless years he has performed excellently when it comes to loyalty to his maker and God! Proverbs 8:22-31

It is not obeisance, it is to serve.
So how come Jesus is receiving the same service reserved only for Jehovah?
Note this type of services is only rendered to Jehovah.

MaxInDHouse:
Ọ̀gbẹ́ni Jehovah and Jesus are two separate beings so don't let trinitarians mislead you!

So how come Jesus is receiving the same service reserved only for Jehovah?

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus is the son of man brought before JEHOVAH.

This is a vision of what happened in heaven so both in heaven and on earth Jesus is lesser than Jehovah! John 14:28

Do you know that the Word serve as used in Daniel 7:14 is only attributed to Jehovah alone?

MaxInDHouse:
NO! He can't do a single thing without getting approval (go ahead) from his God and father:

"I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative. Just as I hear, I judge, and my judgment is righteous because I seek, not my own will, but the will of him who sent me" John 5:30

That's the real Jesus Christ for you not the fabricated trinity Jesus!

Remember, Jesus was speaking as a servant. Since he took the form of a servant he does nothing of himself, it is the position Jesus willingly took.

That is by the way side, if Jesus is a mere creature why would the father give him absolute authority over all creation?
To the extent of commanding angels and all men to worship Jesus?

MaxInDHouse who is the Son of man in Daniel 7 :13? Jehovah or Jesus?

Daniel 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

MaxInDHouse:
Well Jesus was GIVEN {Matthew 28:18} and he must return it to the One who gave him! 1Corinthians 15:27-28
So that's not absolute!

That means you atleast agree that for now Jesus is given absolute power, right?

Just as Jesus was given temporary power to rule and he must surrender later !

that means you agree that Jesus is atleast given absolute power, right?

MaxInDHouse:
Well for your information God confered the title (God) on Moses and declared Aaron prophet to Moses {Exodus 7:1} does that makes Moses God almighty?

conferring titles is not the same as having absolute power.

Hen because God gave the authority nah.

Moses was made like God over Pharaoh of Egypt. Perhaps you don't understand what that means, at that time Pharaoh was the world's most powerful ruler so if Moses is given authority over the world's most powerful ruler please who is more powerful than Moses at that point in time?

God gave authority to Moses over pharoah is not the same as giving Moses absolute power. Jehovah alone has absolute power.

MaxInDHouse:
You misunderstood the whole thing!
The power was GIVEN to Jesus so that all other creatures both in heaven and on earth must obey Jesus (if they want to continue living) he must return all authority back to his father and God {1Corinthians 15:27-28} so even in heaven where Jesus is right now he is still under the authority of his father who gave him the power to control all His inheritance! Colossians 1:16

After God transformed Jesus' life into an embryo he became human but before then he was one of God's spirit sons in heaven.

Jesus himself said he was SENT {John 3:16-17} of course all servants sent must do God's will by their own freewill otherwise they won't do it joyfully. John 4:34

Ọmọ Jesus was no king until he completed his earthly mission {John 19:30} that's what made him qualify fully as the only creature that can lead mankind to salvation! Daniel 12:1

Jesus was also one of them until he passed all the tests before him to qualify for the position he earned!

you seem not to understand what is at stake. We are talking about position that only God has. If Jesus had the position whether he earned it or not, it does not matter.

NO! It simply means God is not the one whose lifestyle and ministry judged mankind but the role model sent to live a holy life amongst humans, it's his holy life that judged the world! John 3:19

Jesus said all Judgments has being committed to him this is lifestyle but absolute authority he also said that whatever he locks no body can open and whatever he opens no body can lock meaning he is absolute authority over all creation.

Janosky:
Hallelujah!
Oga Steep quote of John 5:22 says God the Father gave His Son power to do judgement.

Oga, will the Son do judgement without his Father's instructions & command?

yes the father gave the son power to do Judgment.

The issue is, if Jesus has the final say over all things as given by the father, doesn't this mean God sharing his glory over all things?

Oga , "the Revelation which God gave Jesus his Son. Have you erased Revelation 1:1 from your Bible?

I never said Jesus is never the servant of God. Jesus is the servant of God because he took that position.

I wonder how these Trinitarians dey reason sef!


The only true God is Almighty, according to Jesus Christ, Revelation 3:12 & John 20:17, John 17:7.

John 20:17 & John 17:7, Revelation 3:12 from the mouth of Jesus Christ.

Oga, @ John 20:17 & Acts 3:13, according to the apostles, whom does Almighty God the Father Worship?

Oga Steep, @ Revelation 3:2, Jesus Christ is talking to you:
"I find that your actions (on Nairaland) do not meet the requirements of my God."

The father is the only true God in contrast to other gods human worship.
Jesus is not among other gods so the statement that the father is the only true God does not disprove that Jesus is the true God.

The apostles and angels also worship Jesus and confessed him as God in flesh.

MaxInDHouse:
All these power was confered on him after his earthly mission {Matthew 28:18} before then he doesn't have such authority.

you mean Jehovah confered all his power to a creature? I thought you quoted Jehovah saying he does not give his glory to another.

If he is praying with tears ọmọ he is not the one who has the final say.

No it means Jesus was truly human

That simply means he gives no personal order (making himself God) rather he was telling his listeners what he heard from his God and father! John 8:28

Jesus came of his own free will, he wasn't ordered.

All creatures that comes from above {John 8:23} are far too much for humans to stand before them {2Kings 19:35} so unlike all other heavenly creatures Jesus has special weakness for humans due to the love he has for humans {Proverbs 8:31} that's the import of what you quoted.

Philippians establish the fact that Jesus was not originally a servant.
It is not humility for a servant to uphold his servanthood but for a king to become a servant that is true humility.
The bible is clear that angels are servants.
Hebrews 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?


An angel said to John that he is just a servants like John and other apostles and prophet

Revelation 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

Jesus doesn't have the final say that's why the scriptures say he must wait at the right hand of the One who has the final say {Psalm 110:1} Jehovah his father who is also our father and his God who is also our God {John 20:17} who has the final say must issue order on what Jesus should do! Psalm 110:2

Jesus told you that the father does not judge anybody but has committed all judgment to the son meaning Jesus has final say over all things.

MaxInDHouse:
This is your personal opinion if Jesus has the final say he won't be praying {Luke 22:42} to another person who can SAVE him! Hebrews 5:7

It's not my personal opinion.

Revelation 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;


Jesus prayed because he took on the form of man. Simple.

Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

Janosky:
Jesus Christ himself does NOT have final say, Matthew 24:36,God his Father does have the final say.

Jesus has the final say.
Revelation 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

John 17:3
"And this is the way to have eternal life—to know you, the only true God [/b], and Jesus Christ, the one you sent to earth"

According to John 17:3 spoken by Jesus;
Is Jesus the only true God?

Can you compare or liken any being or thing (in screenshot PROVEN evidence) referenced as "ONLY" ?

Not ,at all.

But according to scriptures Jesus us exactly like God.

How come nobody like God and yet another looks exactly like him with no difference?