₦airaland Forum

LordReed:
Then harming someone is not universally wrong. If there is any situation in which something you would have said to be morally wrong turns out to be morally right then that action cannot be UNIVERSALLY morally wrong. If I save your life by lying am I morally wrong?

you took my words out of context. understand context is key.

Harming someone is only right if it is just in which case it is not subjective.
Understand that justice is part of morality meaning if someone trys to harm another or harms another then that person has lost his or her right not to be harmed because everyone is made by God.
Atheism allows no such, if there is no God then justice is meaningless.

For example not Harming innocent person is objective morality, self defense is objective, the onus lies on context not subjective
So morality is ultimately not subjective but objective.

budaatum:
I did say this was way beyond your ability to comprehend, did I not?

Rape is never a good thing! The subjectivity of what is rape is however glaringly obvious since you can not be condemned for raping your wife in Nigeria where such an idea does not exist, yet. Or have you heard of a husband raping his wife in Nigeria? And if a wife in Nigeria claims her husband raped her would it be a crime?

you have just contradicted yourself, when you said rape is never a good thing meaning rape is morally wrong objectively not subjective.

Amujale:
Furthermore, the article above tells you that there's no archaeological evidence for the Jesus character nor any of your other fictional characters that you intend on peddling here.

It's pretty simple, we ought to bin all these foreign extremist ideologies and concentrate our focus on reality.




"According to Eric Cline, someone who is considered a theology expert, there is no direct archaeological evidence of the existence of a historical Jesus, nor any of the apostles"...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_reliability_of_the_Gospels

Did you actually read, what is in your screen short? You just shot yourself on the foot you don't know it yet.
Read slowly again.
The article said lack archeological proof doe not disprove existence of someone however Jesus has indirect archeological proof.
Read well before coming to share ignorance.

Lol, if morality is subjective on what ground do we condemn rape, slavery, discrimination, murder, etc
Answer is none, zilch meaning nothing is actually right or wrong just the way we see it.

The people who fought against slavery did so because they believed that slavery is universally wrong even while the whole society considered slavery as a good thing.
Atheism says it is slavery is ok provided the society see it as good.

budaatum:
Read it again. I have faith in your ability to comprehend instead of you replacing what you've read with your subjectivity.

So, rape is subjective according to you? So rape can be a good thing it all depends on people's choice?

This proves that atheism has no absolute morality.
Actually As a Christian I believe what is wrong is should be wrong regardless of race, gender and nationality.
Morality is not a choice, that is why society can be wrong.
God made every human so every human life is precious, so rape is bad.

LordReed:
There is no such thing. Even your purported god is not recorded as acting by such a standard.

So according to rape rape can be a good thing? Right

LordReed:
No according to you rape can be morally good if your god says it is morally good,

I have not said morality is subjective, it is you that said so, don't try to spin it.
According to you rape can be good it all depends on peoples choice.

LordReed:
So doing harm to someone about to kill you is wrong?

defending yourself is not wrong.
When I said not harming anyone I mean going out of your way to cause harm to anyone.

LordReed:
All moral systems are subjective, even the one you think comes from your god.

So rape can be morally good according to you?

LordReed:
Define objective morality.

It means universal rights and wrongs.

budaatum:
No, rape is not universally wrong. You can't be condemned of raping your wife in Nigeria!

Lol so rape is good in Nigeria? So we should encourage it in Nigeria since it is good.

budaatum:
What is wrong is not universally wrong. Some countries kill criminals while some don't. Homosexuality is wrong is some countries and not wrong in some. Some religions condone lying and deceit under certain circumstances while some don't under any circumstance. Some regard women as equal to men while some think women are men's ribs. Some don't think it wrong to say fuq god while some say fuq god whenever they feel.

Morality is subjective. What is moral for you might not be moral for me, as you yourself are showing by claiming atheists have a different morality because they have no gods.

You mean for example rape is not universally wrong?

What a pathetic unbelife atheism is.

Wilgrea7:
Wellbeing of the individual is intrinsically linked to the wellbeing of the group, since the individual is a part of the group, whether it accepts it or not.

Are you saying your well being depends on the society? Society determines what is right and wrong for you?
What do you mean by society? A collection of atoms arranged into structure by mindless cosmic process meaning morality is determined by atoms at the end of the day.

As long as you interact with other members of the group one way or the other, your well-being is intertwined with theirs.



I'll try to say it a bit more slowly.

ATHEISM.... IS... SIMPLY... THE... LACK... OF... BELIEF... IN... GODS.

It makes no claim about anything else. It makes no claims about morality, or the origin of life, or freewill, or whether or not we are cosmic accidents. That's quite the handful of straws you got there.

It does not make any sense, meaning there is no free will, nothing is wrong or right at the end of the day just what propagate the human society, murder, rape, stealing lying can be all right when they profit society which itself is nothing but a complex structure of mindless atoms.

Maynmann:
What purpose did Abraham lie had?

So your god is yahweh?
Why not allah?
Muslim are theists too na

gerrarahere
You are not to be taken serious

Wilgrea7:
You're still missing my point. Atheism isn't a set of beliefs. It makes no claims to morality.

If you're asking how i view morality as a person, that's a different case.

For us humans, well-being seems to be intrinsically linked to morality. First wellbeing of the individual, and then of the whole.

Why should I as an individual care for the well being of others? By the way we'll being is meaningless because we are all cosmic accidents and mind you atheism negate freewill so evil or good does not exist just atoms interacting. Oya answer

Maynmann:
Numbers 31:13-18-13-18.
What’s objective morality?

Moses, Eleazar, and all the leaders of the congregation went to meet the returning army outside the camp. Moses was furious with the army officers—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—as they came back from the battlefield: “What’s this! You’ve let these women live! They’re the ones who, under Balaam’s direction, seduced the People of Israel away from GOD in that mess at Peor, causing the plague that hit GOD’s people. Finish your job: kill all the boys. Kill every woman who has slept with a man. The younger women who are virgins you can keep alive for yourselves.

Did the virgins give them consent?

Where did God told Abraham to lie, pathetic liar.
Atheism is lunacy honestly, I forgot lying is permissive as long as it serves your purpose.

Wagwanbrethren:
But you believe God came out of nothing na? 🤣
Does that make you mentally ill? Explain how God came into existence na. You don't want to accept that the existence of universe doesn't prove God's existence, but you want me to believe that your existence is as a result of God's existence that you can't prove. Does that not make you a blockhead?🤣

Talking about morality. This confused God plagued Egypt with various disease when he could easily do it in a more accurate way. The same god killed his whole creation including children and pregnant women!🤣
Comot morality Abeg.

Just because something is powerful doesn't mean that it is good. Hitler was powerful, but that doesn't mean that he was good. Finally, morality doesn't have to come from God in order to be true. There are many reasons why people might think that certain actions are morally right or wrong, and not all of them have to do with religion. This is basic sense na! 🤷‍♂️

You are the block head, you have nothing reasonable to say other than your usual empty emojis.

Maynmann:
I asked steep if lying to save yourself from death is wrong just as yahweh told abraham to lie about his wife, she is yet to answer .

This clown has resulted to lying hahaha, and I ask you where did yahweh ask Abraham to lie about his wife Sarah?

Wilgrea7:
What exactly do you mean by "power outside of man"?



What god? Which god?



A creation says nothing about its creator/creators. So it still leads back to my previous question. What god? Which god?



You're saying the same thing. If group A of theists subscribe to a concept of god that says pork is wrong, and group B subscribe to the one that says it is right, who then is correct. Until either group can prove that their god is indeed the creator of the universe, their claims to objective correctness are dead on arrival.



I'm not asking for proof of A god. I'm asking for proof of YOUR god being the creator as it claims to be.

To give an analogy. Imagine a robot. I'm not asking for proof the robot was made. I'm asking for proof the robot maker is a 35 year old, 80 kg man named mark, and not literally anybody else.



If you're going to quote me, do it correctly. Yes I said morality is a human thing. That does NOT mean it is purely subjective. I already said that before. and it is NOT a matter of personal opinion. I also said that before.

Also, atheism is not a belief system. saying atheism doesn't have a basis for objective morality is a strawman at best. Atheism is simply the lack of belief in a god. And I've explained to you already that merely having a belief in a god does not automatically make morality objective.

Try to read through a little more carefully next time before misquoting me. thanks

So as an atheist what determines what determines morality?

Amujale:
Sources!?

There's no serious minded historian that will come up with the nonsensical gibberish that you're projecting here.

According to history, Jesus is a fictional character.

Given that neither you or any of your tutors can provide us with proof for your fictional characters or your false narratives, there are no second hand witness accounts, there's no evidence out there that can pass as being genuine and authentic, then, it stands to reason that your fictional characters never existed to begin with, and that you and your tutors are peddling a false representation of history.

you are an ignorant man
Nearly all scholars of antiquity agree that that the books of the Gospels are historical.
https://handwiki.org/wiki/Religion:Historical_reliability_of_the_Gospels

.

Wagwanbrethren:
Dude, you are contradicting yourself. You said every creation needs a creator. So tell us who created your God,and how he was created. 🤣

Have you ever heard about history? 🤷‍♂️
You can simply Google search everything about the manufacturer even after closing down, everything you need to know can be found,even his photo. Can the same be said about your God?

God is by definition is not creation.
Do you know who Jesus is?

You ignored my question because you are not mentally capable to answer them! 🤣
Answer them and stop running around. Love, this is not how you convince someone!

Tell me is it mentally OK to believe something can come out of nothing?

I will be waiting for sensible answers to my questions, and if you keep vomiting this same trash, then I would have to leave you to your foolery! 😉

The evidence for Hod is the creation, life can only come from life, order and structure can only come from Intelligence, morality can only be true if there is God.
All these are solid proof that there is God. Arguing against these is stupidity at its best.

Wagwanbrethren:
So, because you can't have a creation without a creator you then conclude that the creation was created by God? If you can't have a creation without a creator, then who created your God? He also needs a creator!🤣
If you can't answer that, the that shows you know nothing of what ya speak about.

God by definition is uncreated, you are illogical.

Dude, it's called a brand for f:k sake. Your argument here is not convincing enough. No sane person will argue against the fact that a vehicle needs a manufacturer, plus there are surplus evidence to support it, search it up, their office is there, everything you need to know, realistic evidence, the one you can verify. Can you say the same about your God??

what if it is a single person and the company closed down when he died? Would you then concluded the car made itself?
So you have to rely on evidence without actually seeing the manufacturer that is interesting yet again it is one thing to gather evidence it is another thing to interpret those evidence.

Tell us how your God created human, show us proof and the process he went about it. Still you skipped my previous and previous questions. This is hilarious! 🤣

I skipped you previous question because they don't make sense.
The evidence of God is everywhere. For example life cannot come for no life so it means there is an ultimate life called God.

Maynmann:
Is paying tithe wrong universally?

paying tithe has never being wrong.

Maynmann:
If I know the prices of Goods I am omniscience like your god according to your dumb logic?

No according to your stupid logic, if you know the price of goods before hand it means you are the cause.

Wagwanbrethren:
Ooh, you mean your God appeared out of nowhere! 🤣

God by definition one of God's attribute is uncreated.

You only made a claim without evidence. I asked you to prove and demonstrate how the universe or creation is a proof of God's existence!

Simple you can't have a creation without a creator.

We know the name of the manufacturers and who to hold responsible when things go wrong. We know where there office is located, and how to contact them,we know who to call,we can even search them up. Can the same be said about your God? 🤣

So what if the manufacturer is dead you assume he didn't exist, the car must have made itself?
For example you can no longer contact the person that invented the telephone so, it is safe to assume the telephone made itself?

Wilgrea7:
The issue of morality isn't that simple. Even if you bring gods into the equation, the problem still remains.

you are wrong, morality becomes object because there exist a power outside of man dmtgat determines what is right and wrong.

There are different religions today, with different gods who claimed to be the creator of the universe, and hence the source of the moral laws, if any, in them.>

people may try to have a god after their umage but it does it negate that God exist.

So far, no god has been proven to be the creator of the universe, and therefore, no god can lay a claim to objective morality.

The prove of God is all around. You can't have a creation without a creator.
Flat earthers claim there is no proof the earth is sphere going by your but evidence points otherwise.

Morality among theists is still highly subjective, but it moves from being subjective among humans, to being subjective among gods.

for theist that have same concept of God it is objective.

god A says eating pork is wrong. god B says it's okay. That's the case we have today.

If you want to make a case for objective morality, you need to first prove the source of it, A.K.A, the god, and then prove that the moral laws set by this god are indeed from it.

you don't accept proof. Otherwise the proof is all ready there.

Because from what it seems, moral laws, are a purely human thing. And rather than seen as subjective or objective, they appear to be somewhat progressive.

Ooook soon moral law is purely a human thing, you have just confirmed what I said.
Atheism has no basis for objective morality.
So morality is basically anything I feel like or anything that benefits me or society.
All these rigmarolling is to justify your point. You shouldn't be embarrassed to say atheist world view has no true morality.

budaatum:
Your subjective worldview no doubt, which is why you claim rape is not wrong if your God says rape is right. I can just about hear you claim your God told you to rape and cheat and murder and lie.

Not only are you subjective, but your God sounds subjective too, which is why most societies do not leave right or wrong to gods.

My world view is not subjective, I believe what is wrong is wrong universally because there is a universal creator. Atheism cannot allow for objective morality.

Maynmann:
I cannot know, i can only predict.
I’m not omniscience, do you know what “omniscience” means?
You are yet to make sense.

government told you for exwmol3 that they are going to increase price of Goods the following week going by your dumb logic you are the cause because you knew about it before.

Maynmann:
Scientists don’t know they predict, they are not Omniscience.

they don't need to be omniscent. Your argument is "if something is known before it happens then the person that has that knowledge caused it.
So is scientist know for sure that something will happen then they are the cause right?

Wagwanbrethren:
I see you have a problem providing evidence to prove the existence of God. Why are you dodging all my questions? 🤣🤣
This is so funny.

I have provided evidence but you just would not accept it.

Again, provide evidence for the existence of your God, if you say the universe can't Pop out of nothing, then logically demonstrate and prove how God came into existence 🤷‍♂️

God is not creation so I don't know what you are talking about

We can see the manufacturer of the vehicle, we when know where they work at. Can you say the same about your God? 🤣
The manufacturers do not claim to be perfect, but your God claim to be. Comparing the two is an insult to your god's personality! 😄

I will be waiting for an answer to my question, or you run around the circle again like usual. 🤣

what has the perfection or imperfection of a manufacturer got to do with its existence? You are the one running from facts.
Going by your logic if you see a broken down car that you don't see the manufacturer, then that car was not made?