₦airaland Forum

ItsReal:
As the saying goes, bring 100 Christians in a room , ask them about Christianity and the concept of God, then you will get 100 different answers.

The reason mainly is due to the root of it all.

Till today, there are no witness of the crucification of christ. ( just hearsays from the man that created the religion, who was also not a disciple of Jesus)

No agreed upon book. Different bible written by different unknown authors containing different numbers of chapters/book.

Totally different belief system. Earlier Christians didn't believe in trinity o. Na after the council of Nicea the concept of trinity of formed. Some see mary as part of family Trinity, some say na holy ghost. Some say na god send Jesus, some say na god send god, etc...

To cut it short, only people with no knowledge about about christianity and the bible, those wey dey cash out from it, or people who don't want to be bound by any law but want to live a care free life, na them dey remain Christian o.

No responsibility, just believe someone for died for ur sins and go on to do as you wish.

Every part of the religion is formed by the pastor and those in charge. How to worship, what to believe, rule of conduct, etc, na pastor dey create am...not jesus or the founder ( paul).



Trust me ,i can keep going on and on.

The problem of Nigerian Christians is ignorance. All they know is what their pastor wants them to know... From the selective readings from the bible, telling people who ask questions not to question god or that they don't have holy spirit needed to understand things, or saying its a mystery.

Go online and see how Christian outside africa who have read the bible end up turning to atheist or agnostics or Muslims... Read about how the whole religion of christianity has kept changing, from the books to the beliefs... Read about the Crusades, the spread of Christianity, the views of Jews about the Christian belief and many more, ... , you will see that its all a sham

simply identifying ad a Christian does not make you a Christian.

christianity remains the same, Christianity is all about faith in Jesus christ as means to be saved.

There are tons of Muslims and atheists, humanists etc that are converting to Christianity by the day, you are not current at all.

Janosky:
Oga Steep, you want to be dishonest.

Everyone else see's these screenshots Chabad.org Hebrew - English word for word translation of Deuteronomy 10:20, Deuteronomy 6:13 & Daniel 7:14 except Oga Steep.

These screenshots is self explanatory to everyone except Trinitarians DECEIVING THEMSELVES.

Oga Steep no want Hebrew language Daniel 7:14 except Trinitarian distorted & doctored version ..

Chabad did didn't do a straight interlinear.
Here is the hebrew- English interlinear and places where it is used.
The word interpreted for serve is only used for the service of the only true God.


It means to serve or reverence, that is not the issue, but this word is only used to describe the kind of service or reference offered to Jehovah.

Janosky:
Oga Steep, you want to be dishonest.

Everyone else see's these screenshots Chabad.org Hebrew - English word for word translation of Deuteronomy 10:20, Deuteronomy 6:13 & Daniel 7:14 except Oga Steep.

These screenshots is self explanatory to everyone except Trinitarians DECEIVING THEMSELVES.

Oga Steep no want Hebrew language Daniel 7:14 except Trinitarian distorted & doctored version ..

Do a hebrew-english interlinear for Daniel 7 vv 14. Simple

MaxInDHouse:
Psalms 110:1 is enough to help any researcher who is sincere and honest hearted:

This is what was written in God's word:

Jehovah declared to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet" Psalms 11:1

In the Hebrew Aramaic scriptures the name JEHOVAH was presented in four consonants "YHWH" so in your own copy of the Bible that name was replaced with the title "LORD"

So instead of what the New World Translation wrote above your own version of the Bible will say:

"The LORD said to my Lord, sit at my right hand"

Apostle Peter confirmed that David was talking about Jehovah and Jesus so if you're not convinced that the version you're using can't help you get accurate knowledge of God's word that's your cup of coffee.

Go and WORK with your fellow trinity worshipers in doing God's will!

MaxInDHouse:
There's no reason arguing with him as long as Jehovah and Jesus are separate beings and Jesus worship Jehovah case closed!

Meanwhile your questions are pending.

MaxInDHouse:
With all the evidences i think it's time to leave you with whatever you want to believe there's no sense in this back and forth debate.

atleast present one, just one is enough.

Go and worship with those you're sure that are having the same line of thought with you as for us we are doing fine with our Faith in Jehovah!

So far you have not being able to prove anything, I have clearly presented scriptures to you, showing you that Jesus is truly God and truly man.8
I showed you Daniel 7 vv 14 where Jesus recieve service that is meant only for the true God.
Shown you that Jesus has absolute power,
I have also shown why Jesus called a servant which is because he took that form willingly.

I have also showed you where Jesus is prayed to by Stephen, Paul and entire Christian church.

This is enough evidence for now.

MaxInDHouse:
The purpose of scriptural backing for whatever Christians are doing is to prove that they're WORKING towards God's will as a group so if you're sure of what you believe go and WORK with those having your type of faith! James 2:18-26

Then why is it difficult for you to answer my questions?
You claim that the word Lord used was changed from Jehovah to Lord, the question is give me one older new testament manuscript that has Jehovah in it?

MaxInDHouse:
There's no reason arguing with him as long as Jehovah and Jesus are separate beings and Jesus worship Jehovah case closed!

Meanwhile your questions are pending.

MaxInDHouse:
With all the evidences i think it's time to leave you with whatever you want to believe there's no sense in this back and forth debate.

atleast present one, just one is enough.

Go and worship with those you're sure that are having the same line of thought with you as for us we are doing fine with our Faith in Jehovah!

So far you have not being able to prove anything, I have clearly presented scriptures to you, showing you that Jesus is truly God and truly man.8
I showed you Daniel 7 vv 14 where Jesus recieve service that is meant only for the true God.
Shown you that Jesus has absolute power,
I have also shown why Jesus called a servant which is because he took that form willingly.

I have also showed you where Jesus is prayed to by Stephen, Paul and entire Christian church.

This is enough evidence for now.

Janosky:
The Hebrew word translated "Serve" at Daniel 7:14 (H5647) meaning respect/admiration )& Deuteronomy 6:13 (h6399 meaning Worship ),have different meaning.

Hahaha why did you cut off the Hebrew interpretation, because you know the argument would have ended immediately.
Jesus is God that is why he is given service rendered to Jehovah alone.

Janosky:
No,Sir.
As per the screenshots evidences provided from the holy scriptures.

you didn't provide any evidence, provide the Hebrew translation of Daniel 7 vv 14 not the dictionary meaning of serve.

Janosky:
Delusion

you are the deluded one here.

Why are you running from the Hebrew interpretation?

Janosky:
The Hebrew lexicon 6399 translated "Serve" meaning Worship @ Deuteronomy 6:13, Deuteronomy 10:20 & Matthew 4:10 is DIFFERENT from Hebrew lexicon 5647 also translated "Serve" meaning reverence (deep respect and admiration) @ Daniel 7:14.

The screenshot PROVEN evidences removes any iota of doubt as to the genuine meaning of Daniel 7:14, that is ,respect/admiration for the son of man.

I didn't ask you the meaning of serve but the original hebrew translation and its contextual use.
The word interpreted as serve in that Daniel is palack or something like that, it is only used for the true God yahweh.

TheMadame:
Good day to my brothers and sisters in Christianity. May the Lord be with all of us. May the Lord refresh us and give us the knowledge to attain everlasting life in heaven.
Please I write to seek knowledge on a topic which distressed me. This is the dichotomy between the God of the new testament and God in the old testament of our holy Bible.
The God in the Old testament comes across as very angry over issues,while the God of new testament comes across as kind and loving . Benevolent, forgiving, blessing and the father of all creation,while the old testament of the Bible reflects God as only for the nation of Israel. I welcome any explanation with Bible passages to enlighten
God bless as you contribute to this discourse. Apologies for poor spelling and please let us avoid insulting language.
Thank you.

It is the same God but two different convenants. The first covenant is base on Israel keeping the law and failure to do so attract severe punishment.
The second covenant is based on the finish work of Jesus christ on the cross in which christ bears the penalty of sins for those who put their trust in him.

MaxInDHouse:
With all the evidences i think it's time to leave you with whatever you want to believe there's no sense in this back and forth debate.

atleast present one, just one is enough.

Go and worship with those you're sure that are having the same line of thought with you as for us we are doing fine with our Faith in Jehovah!

So far you have not being able to prove anything, I have clearly presented scriptures to you, showing you that Jesus is truly God and truly man.8
I showed you Daniel 7 vv 14 where Jesus recieve service that is meant only for the true God.
Shown you that Jesus has absolute power,
I have also shown why Jesus called a servant which is because he took that form willingly.

I have also showed you where Jesus is prayed to by Stephen, Paul and entire Christian church.

This is enough evidence for now.

MaxInDHouse:
This is what happened!

As they were stoning Stephen, he made this appeal: “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60 Then, kneeling down, he cried out with a strong voice: “Jehovah, do not charge this sin against them.” And after saying this, he fell asleep in death! Act 7:59-60

Is there any manuscript that that interpreted Lord as Jehovah?

He spoke to Jesus as the person he recognized but to Jehovah he knelt and prayed!



It's mistranslation that's confusing them!

The title LORD was used in most Bible versions as replacement for the divine name "JEHOVAH" that's why many readers don't know the meaning of what they're reading in the Bible.

what evidence do you have for this?

For instance David used JEHOVAH'S name in all his Psalms but since translators replaced the divine name with the title "LORD" the sense of what he's saying was lost.

Please read this verses in your copy of the Bible and tell me who was David referring to:

Jehovah is my Shepherd. I will lack nothing. Psalm 23:1

Jehovah declared to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.” Psalm 110:1

Joel also said:

"And everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved; For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be those who escape, just as Jehovah has said, The survivors whom Jehovah calls" Joel 2:32

You will notice that in your copy of the Bible @ Psalm 110:1 the translators rendered it this way:

"The LORD said to my Lord" and apostle Peter confirmed that Jesus is the small Lord Jehovah was talking to {Act 2:34-36} but when the translators wanted to write where Paul quoted Joel they confused their readers:

For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved" Romans 10:13

That's why misinformed churchgoers are taking Jesus for Jehovah!

Do you have any older manuscripts that has Jehovah instead of Lord in it?

According to Paul, the Christian church called upon Jesus.
1 Corinthians 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

Why did the early Christians call upon Jesus instead of Jehovah?

MaxInDHouse:
How many disciples of Jesus did you know?

It was only the names of twelve out of his numerous disciples that were mentioned in the gospels because he made them Apostles {Luke 6:13} so Stephen has been one of those not mentioned by name in the gospels but he was with them all along! Act 6:5-6

But you assumed Stephen knew Jesus face to face without any proof. Any way isn't Stephen supposed to commit his spirit to Jehovah?

Prayer is when you're speaking to an unseen supernatural being but when you're seeing the person directly it's no longer a prayer!

But Paul was not seeing the Lord at the moment of prayer
That by the way side,
Why did the whole Christiandom call upon the name of the Lord instead of the name of Jehovah?
1 Corinthians 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

Can you give example of the early church call upon Jehovah's name.

MaxInDHouse:
Stephen was looking at Jesus standing at God's right hand, the person he could relate with in that scenario is Jesus whom he knew face to face as one of his disciples.

Stephen did not know Jesus face to face, he was not among the disciples who was with Jesus during his ministry on earth.
Why did Stephen choose to commit his spirit into Jesus hands, was he not suppose to follow Jesus example who committed his spirit to Jehovah's hands, Stephen literally saw Jesus standing at Jehovah's right hand side yet choose instead to commit his spirit to Jesus who so?

When Stephen called upon Jesus was he calling upon Jehovah or Jesus?

So he talked to Jesus just as they always do when he was with them but when it comes to prayers Jesus directed all his disciples to pray to God not him! Matthew 6:6

But Stephen prayed to Jesus. Why did Paul prayed to Jesus in 1 Corinthians 1:1–2?

MaxInDHouse:
That's the point!

So all worshipers are to face Jehovah with their petitions {Matthew 6:6; Philippians 4:6} just as Jesus also approach God with his own petitions {Hebrews 5:7} but when talking about how to do Jehovah's will we must all congregate in the name of Jesus who will join and lead us {Matthew 18:20} in the worship of our God and father JEHOVAH! John 20:17

Why then did Stephen prayed to Jesus, or is Stephen not a worshipper of Jehovah?
According to scriptures the spirit of man returns to who?
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

MaxInDHouse:
So when Pharaoh of Egypt gave Joseph the ring as the ruler of ALL Egypt Pharaoh was no longer on his throne, shey? Genesis 41:41-44

It doesn't mean Pharaoh is no longer on the throne but Joseph became the absolute power over Egypt of cause this excludes Pharaoh.

Janosky:
Oga, stop TWISTING the holy scriptures.

I am not. Why don't you paste the Hebrew translation and it's usage let's see.

Janosky:
Oga, the screenshots PROVEN you are TWISTING the holy scriptures and at the same time, TWISTING the word "serve" which means deep respect and admiration."

Daniel 3:18 provides lucid evidences that serve (Hebrew lexicon 6399) is NOT Worship.

Screenshots evidences.....

what does worship mean?
The word translated as "serve " is peculiar to service to the only true God, not kings.

There two word translated as serve in the old testament one is general service to both men, and true God but the second is strictly the true God.

Janosky:
@John 15:15, in heaven,Jesus Christ is receiving instructions and teachings from God his Father, but you doubt that he is a servant in heaven.

I don't doubt that he is a servant but he took the form on his self, it was not original.

It pleases the God his Father to grant Jesus that privilege.


@ Matthew 4:10, Jesus Christ says you are on your own.

Hebrew1:6, the Catholic New Jerusalem Bible published by Trinitarians, also said "Oga Steep, you are on your own"


@ Daniel 7:14, son of man references Jesus Christ.

It pleases the father that Jesus should have the exact same honor that he has? Yes it sure did because Jesus is God.

Janosky:
1 Corinthians 15:24-27 & 1 Corinthians 11:3, Oga Steep, where is your absolute authority coming from?

what does having "all power" mean to you

Janosky:
Oga Steep is a polytheist who claims he Worship the only true God and another true God.

Oga, continue DECEIVING YOURSELF..

You are the polytheist here who believe Jehovah is merely a senior god among other gods.

Janosky:
No,Sir.

John 15:15 & Matthew 6:9, in heaven Jesus Christ learnt how to pray & was taught by God his Father.
On earth he passed on the teaching that God taught him (Jesus)..

whether God his father taught him how to pray or not I'd not the issue. Jesus prayed because he was a human being.

Matthew 20:28 & Hebrew1:14 ,is Jesus Christ a ministering spirit in human form?
Yes!
Is Jesus Christ a servant of God's in the spiritual realm.
Revelation 3:2,5 confirmed that.
Yes !
Oga, please don't DECEIVE YOURSELF.

Actually Hebrews disproved the idea that Jesus is an angel.
Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Revelation 3vv 2,5 was after Jesus had willingly taken up the form a servant.

Oga,When did giving someone an assignment to perform for you meaning that he has final say?

John 7:16

yes, when you give someone total power to rule your establishment you have given him absolute power over that establishment.

Janosky:
Isaiah 42:8 Jehovah God does NOT share His glory with Idols & pagans, unbelievers.
Referenced as "another" in Isaiah 42:8.
John 17:7,22,24, Jesus Christ shares his Father's glory with the disciples/co rulers in heaven.

So Jehovah can share his glory with his angels right?

Janosky:
Oga Steep ,read the screenshot thesaurus.
Synonyms for Sent = Ordered.
The screenshot PROVEN evidence PROVEN that John 3:16, Jesus Christ spoke the truth.

Didn't you read in Phillipians that Jesus took the form of a servant?
Jesus came as a servant of God but he was not a servant at all.

Janosky:
The revelation of Jesus that the God Almighty gave Jesus, Revelation 1:1 & John 17:7.
The God Almighty OWNS the Revelation given to His son, Jesus.
Somebody sent you to read His speech at an event.
You get to the event of the speech & be LYING that you,the Reader owns the speech.
Revelation 3:2, Jesus Christ has conveyed God's disapproval of your Trinitarian posture tayy tayy.

Didn't you read that it is the revelation of Jesus christ

You are the polytheist pagan here.
You believe there are Many deities and Jehovah is only a senior deity.

Oga Steep,Trinity is making you TWIST the holy scriptures.
John 15:15, who is teaching Jesus Christ?
John 15:15 & Matthew 6:9, Oga Steep, where did Jesus Christ learn how to pray?
Did Jesus receive that teaching in heaven?


Your fellow Trinitarian,Bill Mounce Interlinear Greek,Phillipians 2:6 PROVEN screenshot evidence that Jesus had NOT equality to grasp.

Trinitarians thought it not robbery to ADD & TWIST Phillipians 2:6.
"Thought it not robbery" doesn't even appear in the Greek manuscript.

"Thought it not rubbery" is an English translation not Greek.
Did you even read what you wrote?
Jesus is in the form of God.
Go and check what forme mean in Greek?

MaxInDHouse:
A king must be served that's why they're called "LORD" so if Jesus is King of God's kingdom he will surely be served just like other kings.
The truth remains that Jesus is not the Almighty God who asked Jesus to sit at his right hand! Psalm 110:1

Do you offer kings the service rendered to Jehovah?
Jesus is not served like other kings, he is served as Jehovah God himself it is in the bible.

MaxInDHouse:
OBEISANCE is for the one who is supreme so since Jesus always do the will of his father he is qualified to lead because whatever orders comes from his mouth is automatically what his father told him.

I told you the word translated as serve in reference to Jesus in Daniel 7vv14 is not obeisance. Why don't you check it up yourself? It is service offered only to Jehovah.

You have seen several verses pointing to the fact that Jesus is not the same as Jehovah so if you're still interested in your trinity no one is holding you back we have been freed from the lies of trinity Jehovah is One God not three in One! Deuteronomy 6:4 compare to Mark 12:29

Neither did I say Jehovah is three gods in one.
However, that does not mean we should close our eyes to the truth.

MaxInDHouse:
Who told you that?

Daniel 7vv14, the Hebrew word interpreted as serve is specifically reserved only for Jehovah.

MaxInDHouse:
Serve in what sense?

Are you saying all those under God's kingdom in ancient Israel weren't serving King David?

The kind of sevice given to God, which includes worship.
Jesus recieves the exact same type of services meant for Jehovah alone.
Why?

MaxInDHouse:
It's confused trinitarians that translated that word as "WORSHIP" the correct rendering is "OBEISANCE" which means "OBEDIENCE to" according to God's will all creatures must learn obedience from Jesus because as a spirit being in heaven for countless years he has performed excellently when it comes to loyalty to his maker and God! Proverbs 8:22-31

It is not obeisance, it is to serve.
So how come Jesus is receiving the same service reserved only for Jehovah?
Note this type of services is only rendered to Jehovah.

MaxInDHouse:
Ọ̀gbẹ́ni Jehovah and Jesus are two separate beings so don't let trinitarians mislead you!

So how come Jesus is receiving the same service reserved only for Jehovah?