₦airaland Forum

[Quote]4. The Fallacy of Irrelevance: When you introduce issues which have no logical bearing on the subject under discussion, you are using irrelevant arguments.

Examples:
#1 Some Muslims argue, "The Qur'an is the Word of God because the text of the Qur'an has been preserved perfectly." This argument is erroneous for two reasons:

a. Factually, the text of the Qur'an has not been preserved perfectly. The text has additions, deletions, conflicting manuscripts, and variant readings like any other ancient writing.[/Quote]if this is to discredit the Quran, it on hand backfires on the Bible, being that it is part of the ancient writing, so the Bible is not word of God the christian writer says. But Quran was written down by scribes who were companions of the messenger [as] under his authority, immediately he received any revelation. there were 5 scribes, writing at the same time, and the muslims know them by names, full names. so we have 5 complete copies, in addition to bits and pieces others write down to be memorized. in addition of the fact that that is a command that people should learn it and commit it to hearts. did i remember to say it is the foundation of the daily salah, also used for the activities of the community, in times of celebration and even in sorrow. is Quran even in the varied accents possible to be with any error? no.

if an egyptian says 'yawmi haggi akbar' people know that his haggi was hajji. if an indian recites as says va lamuu, people know that his va is wa. if a fulani says seun we know that he means sheun.



[Quote]b. Logically, it is irrelevant whether the text of the Qur'an has been preserved because preservation does not logically imply inspiration. A book can be perfectly copied without implying its inspiration.[/Quote]a book that an illiterate claims that he was inspired to speak out the words of its pages, which is the Quran is definitely head and shoulders better in the context of its being a book ordained by God because its purpose is clearly defined [ God is One, worship Him and no one else, etc], than the Bible that is definitely revealed to any prophet or prophets, but ordinary people the bible writers claimed without any prophetic office that the were inspired to write what were revealed to prophets before. pay attention, itistrue.



[Quote]#2 When Muslims attack the character and motives of anyone who criticizes Islam, they are using irrelevant arguments. The character of someone is no indication of whether he is telling you the truth. Good people can lie and evil people can tell the truth. Thus whenever a Muslim uses slurs such as "mean," "dishonest," "racist," "liar," "deceptive," etc., he is not only committing a logical fallacy but also revealing that he cannot intellectually defend his beliefs.[/Quote]since you say Muhammad was not your ideal man, why can't you then say he may be telling the truth, however? you are angry because he destroyed your idolatry; Trinity.



[Quote]#3 When confronted with the pagan origins of the Qur'an, some Muslims defend the Qur'an by answering, "So what! Didn't you Christians get Christmas from the pagans?"[/Quote]i dont know what you mean by pagan origin, but i will like to see examples. but worshiping or slicing 1 God into 3 gods is noting different from the hindu religion.



[Quote]This argument is erroneous for several reasons.

a. It is a false analogy to parallel the pagan origins of the rites commanded in the Qur'an with the present day holidays nowhere commanded in the Bible. What some modern day Christians do on Dec. 25th has no logical bearing on what the Qur'an commands Muslims to do (eg. the Pilgrimage, the Fast, etc.).[/Quote]the children of Israel observed hajj to Makka and stop when arabs stock up Kaaba with their idols. Moses, Jesus fasted. this was long before Muhammad [as] were Moses and Jesus pagans and the children of Israel were pagans when they used to come to hajj in Makka before the idols were introduced by pagans? i see that the writer has no real knowledge of the things done by believers; Noah, Abraham, Moses, etc, Jesus. these were muslims. islam didn't begin on Muhammad[as] but completed as a full process that is perfect on him.



[Quote]b. It is irrelevant that some Christians choose to celebrate the birth of Christ. Since the Bible nowhere commands it, it is a matter of personal freedom. But Muslims are commanded in the Qur'an to believe and practice many things which came from the paganism of that day.[/Quote]i have stated that fasting and hajj had roots deeper than what the pagans of the day used to do. present some thing else, or prove me wrong.



[Quote]c. The Muslim by using this argument is actually admitting that the Qur'an was not "sent down" but fabricated from pagan sources. This means he has become an unbeliever (Surah 25:4-6).[/Quote]i wonder if this guy is not just talking without realizing how empty his thoughts are?

[Quote]2. Arguing in a circle: If you have already assumed in your premise what you are going to state in your conclusion, then you have ended where you began and proven nothing.

If you end where you began, you got nowhere.[/Quote]so argue yourself out of trinity and the bible. i am sure there a failed explanation how Yahweh is 3 person not persons because He said lets make man in our own image in our own likeness [both singular]. who told you what Yahweh said? and to whom, while the Queen of england can use we for herself and she is just 1 person?

you will tell us how the bible is the perfect complete word of Yahweh, yet it changes, always.



[Quote]Examples:
#1 Proving Allah by the Qur'an and then proving the Qur'an by Allah.[/Quote]when Jesus of the Bible said Ellah, where is Yahweh or Jehovah in that sound?



[Quote]#2 Proving Muhammad by the Qur'an and then proving the Qur'an by Muhammad.[/Quote]how about Muhammad [as] as the another comforter if Paul was not? before you respond, because i dont want the whole world to shake their heads at you, read the descriptions and the duties of the another comforter. how about the another comforter being that prophet that they ask John son of Zacharias and Jesus about?



[Quote]#3 Proving Islam by the Qur'an and then proving the Qur'an by Islam.[/Quote]how about God will take the honor from your hands you these evil Jews and give it to a people that will worship Him, not them [gods]?



[Quote]3. False Analogy: Comparing two things as if they are parallel when they are not really the same at all.[/Quote]we know about your ever changing Bibles and gods.



[Quote]Examples:
#1 Many Muslims erroneously assume that Muslims and Christians share the same concepts of God, revelation, inspiration, textual preservation, the Bible, prophethood, biblical history, conversion, etc,[/Quote]were there more than 1 man who left ur in ancient iraq to a place other than Ibrahim who you call abraham?



[Quote]#2 Because a false analogy is drawn between Islam and Christianity, some Muslims think that any argument which refutes the Qur'an will likewise refute the Bible; any argument which refutes Muhammad will also refute Jesus Christ, etc,[/Quote]we know Jesus by you was part time god and part time prophet.



[Quote]#3 For example, many Muslims claim that Muhammad and all prophets were sinless. They even deny that Abraham was an idol worshipper. Thus when a Christian points out all the wicked things that Muhammad did (mass murder, child abuse, lying, etc.), the Muslims will say, "If you are right, then you must also reject your biblical prophets for doing wicked things as well."[/Quote]any muslim who says that to you is asking you to open your eyes. Jesus is not sinless according to the Bibles; he said a person wi go to hell fire if he calls another person a fool. Jesus later called a person fool. Jesus of the bible indict himself.



[Quote]What he is really saying is, "If you reject my prophet, then you must reject your prophets as well. If Muhammad was a false prophet, then your prophets are false as well."[/Quote]your bible gave the test for a real prophet and it is not about fighting to defend his community or not being a turn the other cheek man. it says if he says things and they come to pass. and if a prophet says Jesus is the messiah in the future, after Jesus had left the earth, he is a prophet of God.



[Quote]The root problem is that the Muslim concept of prophethood is not the same as the Christian concept of prophethood. We teach that prophets sin like anyone else. Thus while Islam is refuted by the sins of Muhammad, Christianity is not jeopardized at all. The Muslim is guilty of setting up a "false analogy."[/Quote]and Jesus was a prophet sent. this statement supports my opinion, above, when i look into your bibles.



[Quote]Whenever a Muslim responds to a Christian attack on the Qur'an, Muhammad, or Allah by flipping the argument around and applying it to the Bible, Jesus or the Trinity as if Islam and Christianity either stand or fall together, he is guilty of the fallacy of false analogy. Islam can be false and Christianity be true at the same time.[/Quote]if you say my bottled water is not suitable to drink, but you offered me water with some brownish muddy color with a pungent smell instead, i will be a fool to accept it. this what we have of the bible; brownish muddy and bad smelly water. taste the bottle water first and stop talking ignorance.

@Itstrue; you are in for a shock. watch.

[Quote]1. The Fallacy of False Assumptions: In logic as well as in law, "historical precedent" means that the burden of proof rests on those who set forth new theories and not on those whose ideas have already been verified. The old tests the new. The already established authority judges any new claims to authority.

Since Islam came along many centuries after Christianity, Islam has the burden of proof and not Christianity. The Bible tests and judges the Qur'an. When the Bible and The Qur'an contradict each other, the Bible must logically be given first place as the older authority. The Qur'an is in error until it proves itself.

Some Muslims violate the principle of historical precedent by asserting that Islam does not have the burden of proof and that the Qur'an judges the Bible.[/Quote]truth however young must be given priority; example the earth is round like a spherical is young, while the earth is flat is older, well established, tested locally but in reality is false.

truth must be given priority if is old; except that the bible lies about who is the 'only son' of Abraham, a position that is always for 1st son. who was attempted to be sacrificed except the one who was the covenant child, participating in the covenant? read your bible and reflect on the story of sending Ishmael away. you know he was 13 years older and was not sent away until little boy isaac was born. can a 100 year old man carry the now at least 13 years old young man on his shoulders for such a distant?

truth young or old must be given priority over lies; the children of israel knew God to be 1. Christians in their dilution say God is a trinity. islam came correct and say judaism may be bad but in this case she is correct; God is truly 1.

[Quote]4) EVIDENCE THAT MUHAMMAD Were Intimate WITH AISHA PRIOR TO HER FIRST MENSES

We’ve seen that Islamic doctrine allows for prepubescent children to be engaged in intercourse, and that Aisha was 9 when Muhammad Were Intimate with her for the first time. Now we’ll look at the evidence and see that Aisha was prepubescent when Muhammad Were Intimate with her.

The hadith state that Aisha was taken to Muhammad’s house, as his bride, when she was 9 and she took her dolls with her as play toys. I’ll borrow some excerpts from Sam’s article here:

   'A'isha reported that Allah's Apostle married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house AS A BRIDE WHEN SHE WAS NINE, AND HER DOLLS WERE WITH HER; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old. (Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3311)

   'A'isha reported that she used to PLAY WITH DOLLS in the presence of Allah's Messenger and when her playmates came to her they left (the house) because they felt shy of Allah's Messenger whereas Allah's Messenger sent them to her. (Sahih Muslim, Book 031, Number 5981)

   When the Apostle of Allah arrived after the expedition to Tabuk or Khaybar (the narrator is doubtful), the draught raised an end of a curtain which was hung in front of her store-room, revealing some dolls which belonged to her.

   He asked: What is this? She replied: My dolls. Among them he saw a horse with wings made of rags, and asked: What is this I see among them? She replied: A horse. He asked: What is this that it has on it? She replied: Two wings. He asked: A horse with two wings? She replied: Have you not heard that Solomon had horses with wings? She said: Thereupon the Apostle of Allah laughed so heartily that I could see his molar teeth. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 41, Number 4914)


A Muslim scholar says that it is okay for Aisha (and other children) to play with dolls because they are not considered adults:

   Al-Khattaabee said: From this Hadeeth it is understood that playing with dolls (al-banaat) is not like the amusement from other images (suwar) concerning which the threat (wa'eed) of punishment is mentioned. The only reason why permission in this was given to 'Aa'isha (may Allah be pleased with her) is because SHE HAD NOT, AT THAT TIME, REACHED THE AGE OF PUBERTY. (Source)

   

Examining the evidence from the previous sections we see

   Islam allows sex with prepubescent children who are married
   Aisha was playing with dolls after she consummated her marriage with Muhammad
   Under Islam’s rules, female children were allowed to play with dolls because they had not yet entered puberty, i.e. had their first menses and became adults.[/Quote]i know women who are muslims who are well educated, american citizens, mothers who collect dolls. and play with them. the dolls in islam does not have to have faces, and the issue of saying that since aisha [ra] played with dolls she must be prepubescent is wrong.

what this christian arab fails to notice is that christianity didn't improve the morality of the arabs. it was Islam that did. if i look at the bible i will see a man who married his sister, another slept with his son's wife. another killed a man and confiscated his widow. another had 1000 to himself alone.

where did Islam not improve the arabs? let deal with the issue of sex and marriage; there was no respect for women before Islam. the west is just catching up to what Islam establishes over 1400 years ago, except that many muslims are abandoning these noble qualities. Quran says of Muslims that it is a nation of justice in middle course and forbidding evil and encouraging good virtues. with these as the quality of Muslims, do we expect the man who personify the complete Islam to be the one who marries a girl who is not a balagha yet, a daughter of a powerful man who knew truth from lies?

even me, a freakin nigerian copied Muhammad in my marriage; an older woman, somebody in my age, much younger woman, none is under the age of maturity, the voting age. this i get this quality from christian man? no; which one is worthy?

obj slept with his daughter in law and the pastors are passing their women around. shall i look at the international scene for christian leadership to emulate? tell me who i should emulate.

if frosbel emulates Jesus, in 100 years he will be forgotten as a person who ever came on earth. if Arabs were not used to marrying under 6 years old as husbands and wives, islam would not have improved them if it is true that Aisha [ra] was 6 at her marriage.

but it is not true because she participated in the formulating of the contract of marriage, a role that must be considered from Quran and hadith. is she not 16 and the gentle soul saw to it that she was well from her sickness a period of 3 years at 19 before the consummation of the marriage? tell me if you know a sexual pervert that can wait a night after marrying a virgin? look at the ghost, it was done like that?

@Frosbel; bogus like your Bibles. choose your part of the bible and i will show you what is bogus in it. just in 1 minute. not more. i know you cant dare me.


[Quote]From the Encyclopedia of Islam, under "Aisha":

"Some time after the death of Khadija, Khawla suggested to Muhammad that he should marry either Aisha, the 6 year old daughter of his chief follower, or Sawda Zama, a widow of about 30, who had gone as a Muslim to Abyssinia and whose husband had died there. Muhammad is said to have asked her to arrange for him to marry both. It had already been agreed that Aisha should marry Djubayr Mutim, whose father, though still pagan, was friendly to the Muslims. By common consent, however, this agreement was set aside, and Muhammad was betrothed to Aisha, The marriage was not consummated until some months after the Hidjra, (in April 623, 624). Aisha went to live in an apartment in Muhammad's house, later the mosque of Median. She cannot have been more than ten years old at the time and took her toys to her new home."[/Quote]if i stop here i will have argued strongly enough to prove the age of Aisha much older than 6 or 9. how? khawla herself made the suggestion about this young girl. she made suggestion too of a truly matured woman of 30. why a woman will want a man who married as his first wife a woman 15 years his senior apart her being with 2 previous husbands before? why would khawla suggest 30 year and 6 year women together for the same man? how can a 6 year old survive around a 30 year old rival? was there the tradition of the Makkans to marry 6 or 9 year old women? if yes, please give me names of 10 wives in the history of makka that were between 6 to 9 years of age when they were married?

Lets start with the mother of the prophet, Amina? how about the wives of the grandfather of the messenger? how about the wives of his many uncles? since people are maligning him, how about his other wives, because usually a person who is evil does not stop at one time. there is always a repeat.

Lets ask how old was Aisha when she was engaged the first future husband that such engagement was 'set aside' instead of it being over because the father in law does not want to become an in law to a muslim? if Aisha had married the first husband, will anyone be talking about anything right now?

the reality is that Aisha was not a child bride, but a young bride because the messenger was a year or so older than her father. this is more or less like Bianca to Nkemba Odumegwu Ojukwu. she is younger and not overly young that she is prepuberty. Aisha is merely few years younger than Asmaa. her father was about 47 or 48 and he was old enough to have children even close to 30 something then or today. will Aisha not be 16 to 19 years old, and the 'copyist' made a mistake and dropped the 1 in front for whatever reason, intentional evil or not, like how the bible copyists preserve the mistakes and i see how easy for frosbel and others to accept both mistakes as the truth.



[Quote]SUMMARY OF THE EVIDENCE OF AISHA'S AGE

The above references are just a sample of the Islamic source material statements that Aisha was 9 when her marriage was consummated. Over and over again the great Islamic scholars state that Aisha was 9 when her marriage was consummated. No serious Muslim scholar doubts this. Generally it is only embarrassed Muslims living in the West who challenge her age. For a more in-depth presentation of the evidence of Aisha’s age being 9, see Sam’s article here.[/Quote]a friend of mine told me that he was just a day or two old when Murtala was killed in 1975 coup. That was landmark event of his life. Mine was earlier. Much earlier. When I look at my friend, I ask what landmark event can we use to know about the age of Aisha [ra]. it happens that 2 major developments at the same time affected her family while one of them changed Makka and later the est of the world. this powerful event was the beginning of the prophetic office of Muhammad [as].

Abu Bakr [ra] being a neighbor who was a friend accepted Islam the moment he knew. that was the first year of Islam, the same year that the parents of Aisha divorced just moments after the father and the rest of the the family except her mother and the first son of the family who refused to enter. Unless Aisha was already alive to forthwith assume that Abu Bakr went after the pagan woman he divorce is like saying Yahweh come over and over shadow Mary in order to get her pregnant!


@Frosbel; So how old is Aisha now in the 2nd year of Hijra, while Islam is just 15 years? 16, 17, 18, or 19, which mary was just a girl of bamitva [13 going on 14 at the time of her pregnancy]?

[Quote]3) EVIDENCE THAT AISHA WAS 9 WHEN SHE CONSUMMATED HER MARRIAGE

Now that we’ve established that Islam allows husbands to engage in sex with their child-brides, let’s move on to Muhammad and Aisha. The Islamic source materials state that Aisha was 9 when they consummated their marriage.

From the hadith of Bukhari, volume 5, #234

"Narrated Aisha: The prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six. We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Harith Kharzraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's messenger came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age."[/Quote]the bold is the obvious proof the this hadith is bogus. Aisha's mother was divorced by Abu Bakr in the first year of Islam, in Makka. that was 13 years before Madina.

Abu Bakr never went after that to sleep with her who is not a disbeliever and gets pregnant. Aisha must have been born before the divorce is an obvious truth. Abu Bakr [ra] didn't eat what he already rejected. there was no way the pagan mother will now move to Madina when Makka was more suitable for pagans.

this is slap together hadith, of lies and some truth; the truth there was Aisha who was a young wife. the truth there was the Messenger [as] who was an older husband. the lies; Aisha was not 6 or 9 because of all she knew in Makka, including being engaged previously and knew when a very early surah was revealed in Makka.

@Frosbel; i am a gentleman i could have made a big deal of your statement; it is a known fact that the england you live in a white female judge converted to Islam. if islam lost one, there is one to replace her.

i dont have to tell you how many white brits are now muslims.

america turns of them.

so the death here is the religion of gods as in tha la tha trinity.


@hedidit; [Quote]Al-Tabari said regarding 65:4

The interpretation of the verse "And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the 'Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubt (about their periods), is three months; and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature) their 'Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise". He said: The same applies to the 'idaah for girls who do not menstruate because they are too young, if their husbands divorce them after consummating the marriage with them.[/Quote]i was 13 once, the age a man i know well became a father. he developed quickly, left home before that and was making money gambling. the woman he had his baby from was a 22 year old model studying nursing in new york city then. the guy is now 68 almost, and he is straight now that he is a muslim for about 20 years now.

i didn't have sperm until i was 15. this tell you that maturity is not by number of years, but how your biology is. no muslim is allowed to marry until he or she is a balagh [sign of puberty not pre-puberty]. for males the voice break, the presence of pubic hair and or sperm [semen]. for females the voice do not break like males, but pubic hair, breast development, the wideness of the area of the body where the female jewel is, or monthly menses begins are signs. all of them dont have to be present before each person is known to have passed the threshold of becoming adult.

if this is your christian argument, then what do you say about the condition of Mary with the holy ghost?

@Salisuammy; [Quote]Halleluya[/Quote] show me yahweh or jehovah or a name you call your God in the halleluya? i will show you Ya Allahu, in a different accent. you know how ibandan people will say benshin and ondo people will say beeni? That way I will show you now or the way Oyo people will nkankan and iseyin people will say nkenken? Same thing.

from halleluya we have ya ellah

or ya ellahu

my husband will never be created.

my wives; thats a reality.

i love my women, in the best way the love to be loved, each fully. with all my heart. afterall, i love my mother, sisters, etc each with all my heart.

see that was easy and no one has to go to a voodoo man for that. he who goes to voodoo has left islam.


i hope you are happy with 3 Gods. i dont know which one you will pray to first if each were to tell you to pray to them individually all at one mentioning the Names aloud? which name will you mention, first sweetie? That will be the biggest God and the others will be smaller Gods.




oga fun e. o fi nkon to dara sile, o lo si nkon tio dara. idunnu wo lo wa ni inue?

@Frosbell « #5 on: Today at 03:12:19 PM »
[Quote]Quote
@cyberjaya« #2 on: Today at 02:06:55 PM »to be an imam is a big responsibility. you are supposed to be one of the most knowledgeable in your community and be willing to sacrifice your time, getting involved in the well being of the people.


The qualification to be an IMAM is to be a[b] good Liar[/b] and deceiver.


You can still marry three wives, abuse children, lie, lust, steal, cheat and still be a good Imam.[/Quote]the number of wives is 4, not 3. this shows how much you know of islam. okay, you are blinded by your rage.

if the qualification is all or any that you listed, you would have been recruited to be an imam because of my first bold; you are a good liar and a good deceiver. they would have paid you just because you are perfect even you dont believe, just as you say trinity [tri is 3] and turn around to say God is 1. big time imam of london you will be if that credential right.

i dont know if you abuse children, but God knows. lusting, stealing and cheating i dont know if you indulge in them. but God knows.

@Frosbel; « #30 on: Today at 01:42:52 PM »
[Quote]^^

There are spiritual things that only a spiritual man can understand.[/Quote]this opinion applies only in the religion of christianity, or reality that every religion is of this opinion?



[Quote]A man dead in his sins, is totally blind to the things of GOD.[/Quote]is this not what the jews will say about christians who adopts 3 gods and pick up what the jews rejected? making a teacher equal to his Maker?



[Quote]But let us contrast Yahweh with ALLAH.

Based on the verses quoted above, ALLAH personally lies and deceives.[/Quote]lied to whom and deceived whom? did He tell them they can killed Jesus and when He saved him Allah by that lied and or deceived the enemies of His messenger? Do you think at all? what did Yahweh or Jehovah did about the condition of Jesus? Lets go to the Bibles where we read that Jesus begged and cried so much in prayers. tearing up so much that his disciples noticed it. Yet after all of this, Yahweh made sure Jesus died in the hands of his enemies by hanging? Is Yahweh capable and loves Jesus? If that is not hatred, what is hate then?



[Quote]This is not about my religion is better than your religion as I do not believe in religion.

This is a mater of life and death, the eternal destiny of your soul.

If you make a mistake here, you lose your soul, your only soul.[/Quote]read the above and convince yourself that you have not made a mistake? you cant fool me.



[Quote]Reading the bible like a story book will only confuse you more and more till you start to behave like Muslims[/Quote]is the bible not a story book? Show me the gospel that Jesus preached based on the message he was sent on? Have you heard of red letter Bible? The red letter part is small and it what they say Jesus said. they say i said. no one is absolutely sure that he said everything in the red letter because one verse says God is not seen. another verse is telling us that Jesus is saying that he is God. You see lies and deceit in action, a plan to scheme?



[Quote]"But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks ( worldly wise ) foolishness;" 1 Corinthians 1:23[/Quote]who is the we but Paul? Is this your reason? You are suckered in, mehn. And after all of this, jews still holds the salvation of those who believe in the bibles.



[Quote]"The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned." - 1 Corinthians 2:24[/Quote]was not the spirit, which is the holy ghost [lol] supposed to act just one time and you have said it acted on penticost? how is it acting after that day? was Jesus lying or those other people including you ae the liars?



[Quote]" the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you." - John 14:17[/Quote]if this true, there is no christian having that spirit because it addressed those 12 disciples and 1 of them died before the spirit arrived, lived in them and was buried in parts with each of them. this verse excludes you.



[Quote]" For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe." - 1 Corinthians 1:21[/Quote]Gabbbbage. corinthians writer was not even around at that time, unless he was the spirit which is another comforter? the spirit you are talking about is another comforter according to Jesus. That comforter, may be unique that it is the only comforter in history, since no one will claim he or she was a comforter before, so we may not from the bible know the nature of the 'another comforter'.
but Jesus tells us his value system;
1] he will come after jesus is not here on earth.
2] he will be sent by God.
3] he will hear from God.
4] he will speak what he hears from God, this is commandment of God on him [because of this we know he can't be God, but a spirit commanded].
a] a prophet is a spirit from God, too.
a] and you will know the true prophet carry spirit from God because all that he says must come to pass.
5] he will correct the people.
a] i am thinking how bad can the disciple be needing correction right after Jesus was lifted on the day of penticost?
6] he will lead to all truth; what all truth did the ghost of penticost lead the disciples to?
7] he will teach you new things.
a] what new things the ghost on penticost taught the poor student known as disciples?
8] he will remind them of what Jesus truly said.
a] what did the disciples forget that they were reminded on penticost by the ghost that did not speak?
8] he will glorify or honor Jesus.
a] how did the non speaking ghost did that on penticost?

if these disciples had to fail so early after Jesus that they needed correction, how can we trust that they didn't fail again after penticost? After all Jesus said he will come back and we are still waiting and no disciple is alive now.

Jesus said John was Elijah and John said thats not true. we know John was sinless.

Jesus said there is a sign for a true prophet; if the prophet says Jesus is the christ. No prophet raised up again among the Jews. But the only prophet that came after Jesus in this world came with a book different from the bibles and says Jesus is the messiah, he leads to all things, showing things to come, teaching new thing and glorifying or honoring Jesus by saying his mother Mary is a honorable woman and Jesus is a true messenger of God.

@Frosbel; you bring in the dictionary of arabic language compiled by a german or white european christians?

why not used lisan dictionary? [lisani arabiya; this is an arab defining the language of his mother tongue].


it is ridiculous thinking you have shown here. it is similar to leaving aworerin magazine and you picked up german's spiegel to learn the meaning of iya.

here are the meanings of Makr; Etymology of the Word Makara

Sura 3:54 says that Allah makara. The Arabic word makara means to deceive, scheme, or plan. The Arabic Bible in Genesis 3:1 uses the same word for Satan. However, the Vand Dyck and Jerusalem Bibles use the root word hayala.

This word "schemer" (maakir) is a very strong word which Wehr and Abdel-Nour define as "sly, cunning, wily". The Arabic-Arabic unjid defines it with khuda`a which means exactly the same thing (by Bill Campbell in his book The Qur'an and the Bible in the Light of History and Science p.217-218).


it is interesting that you didn't say anything about 'planner'.


is it not true that the disbelievers who were the enemies of Jesus, even from your varied bibles schemed or planned to kill him? or did they deceive to kill him [lol]?

this will eliminate deceit, deception, since they were saying to Jesus that they were his friends and would not kill him. all their intentions were kept secretly away from Jesus as they schemed or planned [make your own choice because it is your god that was gored to death in the bibles, the same man Allah saved by making the scheme or plan of the enemies useless].

what shall we say Allah did to make the efforts of the disbelievers fail, since Allah knew it and He was not telling them? the only thing we can say is that He planned to make their scheme or plan of evil useless [the christians have the return to the sender police [the yorubas among you will say ki ibi pada si ori onibi]]. is this not the accurate way to look at it, since Allah is protecting the only party the disbelievers can hurt, and he is unable to know fully or prevent it, as you see the result in your bible. but in Quran, Allah says the end of this event is unlike what the bibles record; there is a happy ending for Jesus because unlike Yahweh, Allah protected him and then lifted him up to Himself, away from the earth where the disbelievers, the Jews will do him harm if they get him.

a. Is Allah the best of Planners here when His plan was successful as expected, and the plan or scheme of the disbelievers truly failed?

b. Or in your mind is Allah the best of Schemers here when there is no reason to scheme before the scheme of the disbelievers truly failed?

c. Or worse in your mind, is Allah the best of Deceivers here when He was not the friends of the disbelievers lying to them to make their deceit failed?

you have a choice, if only you understand english and choose the one that truly explain the outcome of the Quranic story. I know you live in England. So are some english born, who are not fluent in their mother tongue.

@Frosbel; « #1 on: Today at 02:01:06 PM »
[Quote]80% of Nigerian Pastors are opportunists and wolves in sheep clothing.

Shame to them !!![/Quote]the remaining 20% are what, now, one of the two? yet these are the people you follow. shame on you. i want your resignation letter from christianity, today.

you can't hide from slave of Allah. i pursue you in every as much as i am alive, reminding you of your promise to leave christianity if Jesus lied. well he did; apart from saying people who call another 'fools' will end up in hell, if Jesus of the Bibles is in the hell now, then he lied because he called people after warning people.

he lied to say no one should abolish even the smallest jot of the laws and the prophets. he abolished it to mere love your God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself. unless he is the least in God's kingdom now, he lied.

he said he will return in the life of at least 1 disciple. he lied because he did not and you are still waiting for hos return.

he failed even his own test of how to know a good prophet of God away from false prophet; he said things that did not come to pass in itstime.

he lied about the another comforter if the ghost on penticost it, because the ghost itself did not speak, but only the disciples did, and they should not be more than 11.

he lied because the ghost did not have to hear from God because you said the ghost was God itself, so the action of hearing from God first is a lie from Jesus of the bibles.

the ghost didn't correct the 11 disciples on anything, so Jesus lied when he said the ghost as another comforter will correct the disciples.

the ghost didn't teach the disciples anything which was part of the role of another comforter. jesus lied here, again.

the ghost didn't lead to all truth, because there is nothing he did for the disciples except that he made them speak in tongues. speaking in tongue was not part of the role; so jesus of the bibles lied, again.

the ghost didn't glorify Jesus, if it did not speak. so there is yet another lie here.

in the above, Judas Iscariot was yet to be alive. Jesus lied again because Iscariot was already dead when the ghost came on penticost.

again, you can't run. i will pursue you. even so the 'that prophet' who Jesus was not is yet to appear, so the whole jews, and jesus lied. jesus should be blamed here because he was god, but his knowledge is incomplete, it seems.

again, on the issue of elijah as john and john said he is not, one of them is a liar. i will ascribe the lie to jesus, because it was the very John who made him holy by the baptism [it is the jewish bamitva, at age 3, being the ceremony to adulthood. the jews even today count 13 as the age of maturity, and you have the gut to lie on Muhammad [as] whose age of adulthood is truly adulthood is by signs of natural occurrence].




@cyberjaya« #2 on: Today at 02:06:55 PM »
[Quote]Your rating is also very at 80%
I can give you full story of how Chris Okotie claimed he was called by Allah in the and wanted to become an Imam of some sort before he left the north to pursuing a new dream to becoming a pastor. Of course his earlier Producer, Mr Odion Iruojie and other acquaintances can testify to this. You were called to the islamic faith, same you called to the christian faith at the same time. "The Islam one would not fetch the needed money and fame" hence the sharp switch, We know and we understand,
Now Felix Liberty the lover is in Benin city, trying his hand in the gospel field, what a shame![/Quote]to be an imam is a big responsibility. you are supposed to be one of the most knowledgeable in your community and be willing to sacrifice your time, getting involved in the well being of the people.

@Jesoul; you asked somebody in an early post to tell you what he means by religion that may be from God.

i want you to define religion, in your word. then name a religion that you are absolutely certain is accepted or is from God and no other.

please provide few point for your choice.


and i will come back and talk a little about Islam, because this is the season to give abundantly.

caring is sharing my friend.

isn't God against spilling of blood?


is Jesus not against spilling of blood?

Or he just like to spill his own blood, by force?

@Yommyuk; answer the queshiun?

We are talking about your gods in the trinity, mehn [lol; mashaAllah]

what i have quoted were all in your Bibles. torah you ain't got , son.


when you have the torah of Musa, let me know, doll.


answer the freakin question, man up.

you wanna be coward now?

you are just like de dude strung up; before they got him, he was like all mouth.

when the mob got him, suddenly he aint king no more. [lol. you call this on yoursef jack]

Alhamdulillah that i am a muslim.

i am not a northerner. i am sure the vp of nigeria is a northerner. so is the chairman of the cbn. do they have 5 or even 17 years old girls as wives?


i will not defend the northerners because i dont know them. fact. further, what the arabs do arabs do. islam is clearly different from northern nigerian and or arab cultures.

but it is Islam that will prevent somebody like me who is from the south from going all out and marry say a woman who is desperate for whatever reason.

i am wondering how old was Mary when she became legal for joseph? first monthly period she got pregnant. who is the daddy?


when is your resignation coming on the lying thread?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ wishy washy.

Abraham was asked if she was his wife. yes she is my wife should have been the answer. if he wanted to say she is also my sister fine. but to say she is my sister alone and nothing further is not the truth. even though i have no problem with his strategy, but truth is always absolute.

as to the mid wives, God was going to preserve Moses, and He did under the care of his enemy. your excuses for the midwives are defeated by God Himself by Moses's life preserved.

but what is important is your avoiding to acknowledge the lies of Jesus according to the Bibles; is Jesus the Only God?

is God One? IS God The Lord One? Has anyone seen God face to face?

is calling a person a fool means going to hell?

has Jesus returned to his disciples?

Did the another comforter hears from God speaks only what he hears; where are the records of what he heard and spoke?

is God the Judge? how about Jesus and his 12 disciples? that must include Judas te son of Iscariot. these were the disciples of Jesus.

^^^^^^^^^^^^

I have to admit that I am furious with Frosbel. I intended to write full, instead of the fool that I wrote.

Frosbel; I want you resignation letter on my desk by the time the sun rises over river thames

@Davidylan: « #9 on: Yesterday at 09:57:15 PM »
[Quote]Quote from: AIRDIG on Yesterday at 06:39:25 PM
Do you mean what you said? let's put your honor 7 integrity to test
now chew on this,

Does the Bible Approve of Lying?

Isn't it true the Bible condones lying and deception in several passages, indicating that God approves? Therefore, the Bible is a flawed book and Christianity is not worthy of respect, right?

For example, the Hebrew midwives lied to the Pharoah's men about male children born to the Israelite women (Exodus 1:19). Then, the very next verse indicates God approved: “So God was good to the midwives” (Exodus 1:20). God not only sanctioned the lie, He even blessed the midwives because of their deception.

But, the Bible also states the Lord is a God of truth (Psalm 31:5, 2 Samuel 7:28, Isaiah 65:16, Psalm 86:15). So, doesn't God's acceptance of lies and deception run counter to His nature?

First of all, learn to cite your sources. this was copied verbatim from another source.

Note the example you cite. God did not reward the midwives for lying, He did so because they saved the jewish male children. In that case, the women were allowed in that one account to lie in order to prevent a horrible evil, not to wickedly manipulate or gain an unfair advantage. Dont mix the two.[/Quote]I will not bother with the poor midwives. Lets deal with Jesus;

1] You are a fool, the sayer will go to hell fire.
Jesus then says you are a fool.

Where is Jesus in the above?


2] I am sent to the lost sheep of the house of israel.
2a] I am sent to the whole world.

Which one is a lie coming from the same mouth?


3] I will return before you people died.
2,000 years and counting he has not returned.

Is that not a lie?


I have tons of these.


Frosbel, see your life in Christianity? It is fool of lies upon lies.

@Frosbel; [Quote]What gibberish are you talking about, even Moses predicted the coming of the messiah.

“The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brothers—it is to him you shall listen— just as you desired of the Lord your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly, when you said, ‘Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God or see this great fire any more, lest I die.’ And the Lord said to me, ‘They are right in what they have spoken. I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. And I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him. And whoever will not listen to my words that he shall speak in my name, I myself will require it of him. But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.’ And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the Lord has not spoken?’— when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him." - Deuteronomy 18:15-22
[/Quote]is this above talking about Jesus? no.
why? Jesus had nothing in common with moses except bloodline; Moses was 100% a prophet. You said Jesus in not.
Moses spoke only what God commanded him. You said Jesus was god and he in reality don't have to accept anyone's commandments.
Personal life and spiritual successes they are completely different.

What is so interesting about the above verses are what i highlighted. raising a prophet like moses from 'among you, from your brothers' is not exactly saying it will come from the children of Israel. thats the first observation. if we for the sake of argument say it is only from the children and not the other branch of the house of Abraham, we can say any prophet less than 100 years or so after Moses is the prophet and that will eliminate Jesus altogether. How?

Moses spoke a people alive in his time and if the prophesy was to come true, at least one of the people in the time of Moses will have to be alive when it happened. we know that Jesus did not meet any of Moses people on earth.

Why would you not allow Jesus to be a possible candidate? The christians have used their shallow thinking to boxed themselves in; they said another comforter is a ghost instead of a man, and must arrive in the lifetime of the disciples. in their haste to eliminate the true another comforter, they failed to even see that if the argued that Paul was it, it would have been difficult to deny his candidacy, except that Paul didn't say he is hearing from God, but he only heard from Jesus, but Paul fulfilled all other aspects of the roles of the another comforter, because he led the disciples to all things, he corrected them and showed them things to come and of course he glorified Jesus.

the things that will eliminate Paul apart from the fact that he did not say that he was talking to God, since Jesus said before he left that God in Heaven will send the another Comforter, we know it is God's Role to do so, unless Jesus was not telling the truth here as well. What collectively eliminate Jesus as the prophet Moses was talking about is that Jesus didn't speak only what he heard from God in heaven and he and Paul made statements that didn't come true, therefore must be false prophets.

What statement did Jesus make that he failed to make good on? He said he will return to earth before the last of the disciples died. We know that didn't happen.

i will ignore Paul. Frosbel, where is your resignation?




[Quote]
the position of the 10 commandments was so powerful that Jesus had to obey it and in essence 'cursed' those who would abolish it as being the least in the kingdom of God.

Huh Huh, You are getting more and more confused.[/Quote]how? is Jesus above the laws and the prophets? what did he fulfilled then and warned that no one must abolish?

@Frosbel; [Quote]Another LIE


" he says: “It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth.” - Isaiah 49:6

"Fellow children of Abraham and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent." -Acts 13:26[/Quote]is either of this from Jesus?

maybe you will say Isiah was Jesus? then the people in the acts were Jesus[es]?

where is your conscience, frosbel? you have none i am thinking?

@Frosbel: [Quote]
Indeed Jesus is the WAY , the TRUTH and the LIFE.

Muhammad is not the way, he is dead and buried, he tomb is still in Mecca today, he will one day wake up to judgement and bow his knee to the Almighty God of Israel.[/Quote] if the bold does not cover Moses, Aaron, young Joshua and the children of Israel who didn't enter hell, or covers Noah, his people in the ship who didn't drown, Jesus is indeed not the way, the truth and the life, because Noah was in his own time, Moses was in his own time.

i will stop here because you now know that there was a liar on the pages of the bibles; saying he is the only way when the rest of us who are not gullible know that he is not.


where is your leaving christianity?

@Frosbel;[Quote] Another LIE, You just cannot stop lying, can you ??

" Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit " - Matthew 28:19

" He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation." - Mark 16:15

" But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth." - Acts 1:8

"I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,’ the Lord replied. ‘Now get up and stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen and will see of me. I will rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to them to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’" - Acts 26:15-18

"But the Lord said to Ananias, "Go! This man is my chosen instrument to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel." - Acts 9:15[/b][/Quote]are talking about Jesus of the bibles or another Jesus? here is what Jesus said; “I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel” (Matthew 15:24). ,

compare the two and tell me if both are from the same speaker and he has not lied?

where is your resignation letter, frosbel?

@Frosbel; « #8 on: Today at 09:40:51 PM »
[Quote]@Sweetnecta
Quote
about Aisha [ra] i asked when did her mother gave birth to her for her father who divorced this wife in the first year of revelation, because she refused to enter Islam with the whole family, you refused to answer. we know she was not pregnant with Aisha when she was divorced. we also know that she did not get pregnant for a husband who did not want her for a wife, but made her an ex-wife. do people who dislike a spouse so much so that they get divorced go get pregnant for the same spouse as divorced? a person with good moral like Abu Bakr [as] will not go behind and eat the meat that he rejected when it could been permissible.

Aisha Huh Grin

Ask your Imam

Muhammad was a The craddle-robber Pirate

Muhammad had no morals either.

Tabari VII:7 "The Prophet married Aisha in Mecca three years before the Hijrah, after the death of Khadija. At the time she was six."

Ishaq:281 "When the Apostle came to Medina he was fifty-three."[/Quote]i know you have no gut to stand behind your own words. you only make empty promises. Aisha [ra] herself called Muhammad [as] the walking Quran. no one called Jesus or Paul the living Bible. My proof about Muhammad was that Allah did not say he went against any order, including that a person must be a balagh [already matured for marriage, no more a pre puberty]. this goes for man and woman, not just woman.

Aisha participated in her own marriage contract. the remember where she was when a particular early Makkan Surah was revealed. these are profound evidence that she was not a little girl, 6 or 9 anymore in the 10th year of Islam. i dont know how old you are, it you are born in 1966 there is no way you can discuss the nigerian civil war except what your elders told you. for Aisha to say she knew when that early Makka Surah was revealed tell a normal mind that she knew her bearing already at that time.

Aisha was engaged already to a man just like Mary mother of Jesus was claimed to have been engaged to old man Joseph the carpenter. The engagement of Aisha was annulled because of her father's entry into Islamic faith the reason he divorced Aish's mother earlier. how do i know that it was earlier? i know because as the pagans were making life intolerable to the muslims, Abu Bakr [ra] approach the family of the future husband to take her off his hand so that he may go as an emigre to Ethiopia. Just as the family was turning his request down, they said to him that they do not want to be in laws to muslim man, him. it was by divine order that here was a powerful man who decided that he will protect Abu Bakr, one powerful makkan before embracing islam to be able to remain in his father's land, Makka and keep Aisha his daughter.

we can't therefore say that in year 10 of islam, Aisha is only 6 or 9. she must have to be born by the time she was engaged to a previous future husband, being a female in her mother's womb no one can know her gender then until delivery. we know her mother didn't get pregnant after Abu Bakr divorced her and was not pregnant at the time of divorce. if you know better and you can prove it, please do so.

I have asked you to tell me if Abu Bakr became a new father after entering Islam, who was the child born and which wife was the mother, and what year was the birth, you have failed to answer. how many years was Asmaa [ra] older than Aisha?


this is a step by step logical argument of my view. If all hadith are true, then the books of hadith will be in the same level with Quran. we know that is not so. Hadith that does not agree with Quran is canned. all the hadith collectors you referenced, if they do not make a single mistake, their work will be in the level as Quran and we know Whose Word is the Quran.


As i defend the truth, please unravel my premise. then defend the lies of your god in his book; the bibles.
did Jesus not say whoever calls a person raca [fool] he will be in hell. then Jesus called somebody 'fool'. is Jesus in hell? if he is not, you bible has confirmed the worst; he lied.

your God is not merciful. My God is Merciful.


to justify lying of the midwives by preventing evil is similar to a muslim who told the enemies of his people that his people are more equipped and more powerful than they are, a husband saying to his ugly wife that she is very beautiful or a friend saying to one of the feuding friends that the other friend said good things about him, like missing his companionship when such a statement had not been made. these make sense.


i am still expecting you to resign your membership from christianity, and i will hold you to it.

could you say it is own demented wish that played out?

Many northern nigerian muslims don't have 13 year old wives. how about the vice president of nigeria; a northern muslim.

how about abubakar atiku?

tell me a southern nigerian with a 13 year old wife. i am a nigerian muslim.

i am a southern nigerian muslim, no woman under 18 is mature in my eye. and i take this quality from Muhammad [as], because i know there are non muslim southern nigerians who married under 18 women. the villagers do.


further what if a boy under 18 marries a girl of the same age, or a woman much older; say over 21?

@inedi; « #38 on: Today at 06:50:33 PM »
[Quote]Jesus converted Paul,[/Quote]if he did, which i find impossible, but not to lie.


[Quote] and Paul ministered Jesus, [/Quote]no he didn't, the reason they disciples disagreed with him, until each was rendered useless and reluctantly followed the powerful Paul.


[Quote]so we cant compare.[/Quote]but there is contrast between them. they do not agree in purpose.


[Quote] Jesus is the only way to the father,[/Quote]not so fast; Moses was the only way to Yahweh in his time. think about this and apply it to the time of Abraham, too and dont forget the time of Noah.


[Quote] Paul was a follower of Christ, he always address himself as the servant of Christ, as in a minister of Christ.[/Quote]if Jesus called Peter his rock satan, Jesus would have call Paul antichrist, if he met him yesterday.


@Tsammy
[Quote]« #39 on: Today at 08:36:07 PM »
I believe Jesus. He's the Lord of all, even Paul, Paul got saved when Jesus spoke to him on his way to Damascus to get the believers arrested.Paul called him Lord who you from the very beginning.[/Quote]i believe Jesus, too. the problem is that what Jesus was given to preach by God Who sent him as a servant is lost. so in theory what to believe from the pages of the bible is murky. Jesus is no lord because he has a Lord Who sent him. you can;t have more than One True Lord. all other lords are fakes and you have entered polytheism. no one can convert a person except God. a prophet who didn't convert a soul when he the prophet was preaching can't convert the same soul when he the prophet is no more on earth to preach. if you said paul read the saying of Jesus and got converted, it will be a thing believable, but speaking from zone beyond and he is the only one that heard him is hard to accept. my reason is that the bible stated that at baptism of Jesus they heard the voice of God. in the case of paul, he is the only one who heard Jesus and he knew him right away. that is a big lie especially when he was not familiar with is voice.

@Frosbel; « #2 on: Today at 12:52:26 PM »
[Quote]Nairalanders, now you know why Muslims on this forum are now denying their hadiths which confirm the relationship between Muhammad and 6 year old Aisha, and also of Muhammad snatching his adopted son's wife.[/Quote]about Aisha [ra] i asked when did her mother gave birth to her for her father who divorced this wife in the first year of revelation, because she refused to enter Islam with the whole family, you refused to answer. we know she was not pregnant with Aisha when she was divorced. we also know that she did not get pregnant for a husband who did not want her for a wife, but made her an ex-wife. do people who dislike a spouse so much so that they get divorced go get pregnant for the same spouse as divorced? a person with good moral like Abu Bakr [as] will not go behind and eat the meat that he rejected when it could been permissible.

and in the matter of adoption, truly your adopted child has no moral standing on your inheritance, only your blood child does. what you have created with adoption is artificial family unit which God does not sanction or joined together.



[Quote]To be honest if I READ the Bible and heard such things about Jesus Christ, i will abandon the faith.

But thanks be to GOD, our GOD who hates Lies and Liars and even refers to SATAN as the father of lies.

"44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies." - John 8:44[/Quote]is this verse speaking to Muslims or Muhammad [as] but Jews of Jesus time, from which came the 12 disciples? Read your Bible because the message of Jesus is for the Jews, not muslims, not arabs, not africans.you have picked the wrong group to put yourself because you are not from any of the 12 nations of the children of israel. are you a benjamite?

i now expect to carry out your threat upon yourself as in the first bold and quit christianity if you have any honesty in you by the below; Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me" (John 14:6).

is Jesus not lying if he said the bold to cover everyone from Adam to the end of time? let us examine the condition of the children of Israel since the became a people; Jacob became Israel, hence his children are the children of Israel. Jesus message is to them alone and no one else. Moses Message is also to them alone and no one else.

in the time of Moses, however, they were 'slaves' of Pharaoh, so a strong man, Moses came as the way out to God. In essence Moses was the way to God and no one among the children of Israel can get to Yahweh except through Moses. my proofs; the many miracles that Moses showed to prove that he was the elect of God, His way. he finally by his staff drowned the military might of Egypt and Pharaoh their ruler. through Moses, God gave the 10 commandments which guided all those among them until death. if they followed this way of God through Moses, they have came to Yahweh. if they didn't they have not came to Yahweh.

the position of the 10 commandments was so powerful that Jesus had to obey it and in essence 'cursed' those who would abolish it as being the least in the kingdom of God.

Frosbel, you wanna be the least? if you want to follow Paul because he abolished it.

if you say Jesus abolished it, then that is a second proof of the reasons you must now leave christianity. Jesu can't say he came to live it out, and warned about abolishing it and then abolish it himself.

how about saying somebody is a fool after he had warned that such a saying will take one to hell fire?

how about being a bringer of peace, a lamb of God as you say it, as if God needs any lamb but Jesus said he brought no peace but swords and division among family members?

how about willing putting himself up to be killed, but crying out, begging, etc and then complained why God not his father abandoned him?


I want you to declare your leaving christianity right here on nairaland, if none of what i wrote is a lie. check your bible and i want to read your leaving christianity this week.

[Quote]« #14 on: Today at 09:35:27 AM »

^^^


And yet these are the same books referred to and used by thousands of imams worldwide to teach their sheep.

At least you are now embarrassed by this disgusting behavior.

You are one of the new band of educated Muslims who find elements in the Koran and the Hadiths so unbelievable, you are now trying to sanitize it with Lies and half-truths. Ahmed Deedat was your forerunner, keep doing the rest of his dirty work.



A word of advice , sort out your corrupted text before coming to argue against the word of GOD, aka the bible.[/Quote]look at bukhari like bible, if you will because both contains ideas of words of God [hadith Qursiin case of bukhari], words of angels and prophet[s], statements of man about the prophet and God as they narrate the situations.

with this as the back drop, you will see fabrication in each, weak thoughts in each, and truth in each.

@Frosbel; please answer my question about Aisha [ra] who is a thorn on your mind.


if you ask me to answer a question about Paul based on a known event, i will not be dancing away from it as you are with the issue of Aisha's birth relating to the 'beginning of prophethood'. was Aisha's pagan mother got pregnant to her for her muslim father who divorced her because she refused to enter Islam?


Allah is Merciful because this event is very important to how old or the age of Aisha [ra] in the 2nd year of Hijra in Madina. See. People like you will quarrel the messenger [as] later when your leaders in his time didn't. Allah made the divorce such a landmark event to support Muhammad and i am using it to argue against your lies.

yup. youdidit. you lied. itistrue you lied.

@Frosbel; Re: Between Paul And Jesus, Who Do You Believe
[Quote]« #36 on: Today at 06:06:38 PM »

Quote from: LagosShia on August 06, 2011, 02:00 PM
Jesus says:

Matt.9
[13] Go and learn what this means, `I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.'



Jesus was actually quoting Hosea in this passage. (Hosea 6:6) What he is referring to is not just found in Hosea but in pretty much all the prophets. They very much rubbish the significance of ritual sacrifices in their writings. Their emphasis is rather on conduct and righteous behaviour. Things like being merciful and just rather than on empty rituals.

This has to be treated delicately because a great deal of christian theology is based on presenting Jesus' death as a sacrifice of atonement as based on the Mosaic law. Yet we find all over the prophets and from Jesus himself that sacrifice is not what God wants. Some prophets go so far as to say that God despises sacrifices and feasts.
Where therefore does that leave those who rest all hope on sacrifice, the sacrifice of Christ, the pashal lamb, yet continue to livei in a manner that is vile to God?[/Quote]behold your sacrificing of Jesus has been denied by Jesus himself. but Paul has imposed the sacrifice on you as a thing that atones you. this shows that you bought the lies of Paul, and the whole thing is a sham.


Paul can be so much against Jesus that it is sickening.

Didn't Jesus of the Bible lie when the Roman asked him about him being the king of the Jews?

his answer if you remember was not yes.


but all christians take him as king of Kings, which must definitely include being king of the Jews. are you following me so far?

or is the liar not Jesus, but the liars are those who say he is King anyway; the apostle[s] if not the disciples all the way to you, frosbel?

we can all see how ignorant you are, including your lying spirit as i will explain below;

if two countries are going to war, it is normal for the two sides to psyche their warriors up, telling them how great they are and how weak the enemies are. the impression is to instill courage in the heart of the fighters. the leadership may begin a propaganda campaign by lying about the presence of yellow cakes as the US did, do a surgical strike as the US did in the shock and awe bombing of bagdad to get rid of saddam so there is no need for ground personnel.

all the efforts will be to scare the enemy enough that she is forced to surrender. if the lies work from the start, a single bullet may not be fired, or loss of lives is at the barest minimum.

America lied to get other countries to that war on her side, including the girlfriend britain which here calls a lap-dog. you see what lies accomplished for george bush and his cabal; getting rid of hussaine, access to iraqi oil, kbr's of dick cheney made tons of money.


america is the heart protestant christians if not the whole of christians; she even gets her wishes of the pope, the late pope was the hand pick of president carter, and i am almost certain is not more than what bush imposed.


if you are a husband and your unattractive wife puts on a moo moo dress which makes her even cantankerous to the eyes, if when she asked for a yes or no as your answer for her being a fashion plate, you will be sleeping with the enemy if you ever tell her the truth as being an ugly woman.


i know you are in experience; so ask men or women who are married about the wife who is told the brutal truth about her lack of beauty by the dunce of a husband.

Hadith is defined as what the Messenger said, or what somebody said in his presence and he either did not object to it or he corrects the person. This correction when necessary is the role of Ahmad who Isa bin Maryam spoke about in Surah As Saff [61] ayah 6.

Hadith always have to agree with the Quran, and Quran agrees with all instinctive "good" moral and natures of man.

It a hadith is against the Quran, it is no hadith in truth.

If a thing is said about the messenger and regardless of how beautiful it is or it sounds, it will be a lie.

While I am not a shia, I am not a sunni either.

But Aisha could not be 6 or 9 and be able to participate in her marriage contract. The messenger of Allah who is the best of character and his role was to perfect good manners would not be the one that goes against his own duties.

Quran states in Surah Nisaa that a person must reach a marriage-able age; meaning either a male or female must enter marriage knowing fully was the role of a married person is.


Bukhari has false hadith in it, weak hadith in it and sound hadith in it. Scholarship of hadith includes understanding the Quran and its meaning including the root of essential words, how each verse was applied then, etc.


Here is my question to all the proponent of the 6 or 9 years old as the age of Aisha [ra];

Did her father had a new baby after he entered islam, to add to the children he had before islam? anyone who is certain about this should give us the name of the child, when was born, where was born, who came to the naming ceremony, was the messenger [as] there, and who was the mother of the child, since Aisha's mother was divorced from Abu Bakr [ra] as he entered Islam. Please us with good information, as you help yourself gathering it.

@Frosbel: « #10 on: Today at 06:07:36 AM »
[Quote]^^^^
LIAR !!!![/Quote]No. He is not a liar. But you are. And you also ignorant.



[Quote]Sunnis will stone you for what you just said .[/Quote]No. Sunni will stone you. The Shia will re-stone you. Making sure you are dead and finally know who Jesus was. And when you see Jesus, he will attempting to stone you.



[Quote]Keep making a mockery of your religion and prophet. Grin[/Quote]You are the one making fun of Ellah abandoning His Name and start calling Him Yahweh or Jehovah. You did not stop there. You called His creations His partners, as if its a corporation.