₦airaland Forum

To Wtf77:

Regarding your above comment in relation to the YouTube video of Oba Akiolu's interview with Channels TV, as well as your links to Benin maps; refer to the attached comment which I'm disallowed from typing in here.

cc: 900winer, Christistruth00

Logycs:
[s]Wow, so you actually believe anybody would flee a forum while there is no danger to anybody's wellbeing or life.

The fact is you are a low life troll whom has all day everyday to troll. You obviously don't have a job nor any sort of responsibility which is why you have so much free time. Obviously I don't have such free time, indeed I have a job and responsibilities.

You are really slow, because I already explained all these to you and your fellow Yoruba-centeic trolls.

Also, you have no logics, when I actually prove your claim to be false you continu claimiing your already debunked claim. Eventhough I shouldn't have to prove your claims wrong, you should be the one proving your claim right. But you can't because your claims are false.

In essence talking to you and macof (your master) is just like talking to a retarded toddler. The talk never ends no matter how many times you guys are proven wrong. You just keep talking, making hundreds of more unsubstantiated claims and wasting my time.

I can't waste my life on social media. I have a job, a family and life to live. Unlike you guys, the lowlife trolls who spend all their lives on social media, trolling and trolling, telling lies.

And worst of all you actually believe you are fighting a war. You have lost your mind dude![/s]

There is no point refuting frustrations & oceans of tears.

As the name implies, it itself is clearly self-refuting.

So, I will simply continue laying my ambush for your lies. Watch out!

Logycs:
Where to start ?

1) all you said is unsubstantiated
2) oranmiyan whom you talk about as if he were real is actually a mythical figure.
3) do I need to say more ?

Oranmiyan was made up?? Says who? Says an inconsequential Nairaland ignoramus.

And when asked why he thinks so, his reason is along the following lines:

Oranmiyan is made up because he is a Yoruba who ruled over the Binis. ... Aaaaa ... I see!

I wonder how dumb your ancestors are to have made up such a story which clearly degrades them.

Your latest moniker should have been called “absurdities” instead of “logycs”.

You clearly haven’t read up on what is called the criterion of embarrassment. This criterion dismantles your made-up view here in just one go.

You still haven't changed. You just keep repeating made up stories and never care to prove any claim of yours.

The fact remains that you can't locate any precolonial text referring to your chiefs ( ooni, alafin...) as Oba. But in the 1930's out of a sudden, all your chiefs started bearing the title Oba.

I have vowed to continually disgrace Bini liars. May I not see any reason to let them perpetuate lies freely.

Refer to your disgrace below:

The Reverend Samuel Johnson writing in the 1800s (specifically prior to the year 1898) made many references to the word "Oba" as used for different Yoruba kings who ruled in Yorubaland in the 1700s, 1600s, and 1500s.

Quoting word-for-word directly from his writing, the following are a few examples of such use:

(i) Several points of similarity may be noted between the ALAFIN and his Basorun. The ALAFIN is Oba (a king), he is Iba (a lord)."

(ii) "From this incident, King ABIPA was nick-named Oba M'oro (the King who caught ghosts)."

(iii) "And this has passed into proverb, "Oku dede ki a ko iwi wo Akesan, Oba Jayin te ori gba aso". (At the approach to Akesan of a company of chanting Eguguns, King JAYIN buried his head in a shroud.) Used of one who anticipates the inevitable."

(iv) "Oaths were no more taken in the name of the gods, who were now considered too lenient and indifferent; but rather in the name of the King [i.e. King AOLE himself] who was more dreaded. "Ida Oba ni yio je mi" (may the King's sword destroy me) was the new form of oath!"

Reference: Samuel Johnson, "The History of the Yorubas". Completed 1897, Published 1921, pp.71, 166, 171, and 188 respectively.

The only précolonial texts mentioning the word Oba was referring to the Oba of Benin.

Your chiefs copied the title of the Oba of Benin.
And you know it eventhough you refuse to acknowledge it and try to claim it through mythical figures (who were totally made up)

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Quote and reference the relevant statements from any such document. You moronic fatuous liar.

The historical fact remains that the word “Oba” is meaningless from the lenses of the Edo language. And the reason is quite obvious — it is a loan term from Yoruba.

I challenge you to tell everyone what ”Oba” means in your language if you won’t be disgraced.

Of course you want to reduce the significance of the title, it is not yours after all. You claim the Oba title is inferior to the ooni title yet, your ooni felt obliged to add it to his title. And so did your alafin and actually all your chiefs. Laughable.

The word “Ogie” is the indigenous Edo word for “king”, “monarch”, etc. “Oba” is the word for “king” from the Yoruba language loaned into the Binis.

Why do you think the Oba of Benin regard the Edo people as his slaves??

The answer is simple: He belongs to a different ethno-linguistic group, while the general Edo populace whom he rules over belong to another ethno-linguistic group.

Crooked yoriba

Disgraced Edo liar.


cc: macof

Logycs:
The same person who debunked a bunch of your unsubstantiated claims and showed you to be a total fraud and also debunked macof and gave you guys lessons about how reasoning works ?
Hmmm such a guy.
Yet you keep repeating your debunked claims hoping the unsuspecting reader would swallow your vomit

When did “debunk” begin to mean the same thing as “to flee for dear lifter after been intellectually disgraced”?

In other words, “@Logycs debunked” = “@Logics fled for dear life after being intellectually disgraced”.

LegendHero:
Lol. Historians of repute have quoted Ahmad Baba statement in multiple sources domiciled in world renowned libraries like LOC and etc.

You are a joker if you’re asking for the actual image of the manuscripts before you can believe it or trust the historians.

Just like asking for the actual images of destruction before you can believe Benin was invaded by the British.

It’s just a face-saving request. It’s a standard Bini thing on Nairaland. Lol.

LegendHero:
I’m also learning from your posts.

So even if what you’re saying is lost on the guy, people like us are learning from you. So your efforts are appreciated.

Thanks sir!

macof:
Lol. No such thing as etymology in African languages??

That's what killed your argument mehn

Just so you’re aware, he is the same person as Prolog/Ghostwon.

I know he is always scared of me. Logycs, yes I know you are. Cry!

Logycs:
You are hearing things which sound pleasing to your ears. Which is why you are swallowing Tao's words with no scrutiny.
Tao is a known Yoruba biggot and revisionist, a crook and a professional liar.

You are not learning anything, rather you are being fed comfortable lies.

Logycs:
1) I am Edo, stop making assumptions on people whom you know nothing about.

Of course I knew you are Edo. Not only that, I also know you are one and the same person as prolog, ghostwon, among several other disguised monikers which I have caused you to delete in the past.

Moreover, I am not assuming anything about Edos, I am citing references for my arguments. E.g that the Edo people of Benin are also called Bini.

2) the title of the emperor of Benin empire is Oba and Omo n'Oba n'Edo in full.

Nope, this is a blatant lie. In Benin culture and language, “Oba” is not a short form “Omo N’oba”.

(i) “Oba” simply means “King”, “Monarch”, etc. [an alien loan term from Yoruba language]

(ii) “Omo N‘Oba” means “The child who shines”. [an indigenous Edo phrase].

3) why do you just keep repeating rubbish ?

I am sure that even you yourself do not believe this to be an argument against any of my point.

Why did you decided to chip in the following after I had already replied. Anyways I still managed to fish you out??

4) you still don't understand that the Oba of Benin is the king while Enogie is a Duke under the authority of the Oba if Benin ?

All other titles in Benin empire are vassal titles to that of the Oba if Benin whose title is simply Oba.
If you consider the lesser titles to be longships then the only translation for the title of the Oba is emperor.

Anyone with this slightest inkling of knowledge of Benin knows that the “Oba of Benin” is the foremost monarch of the Edo speaking peoples.

My point here was therefore never about the relative and respective roles of the Oba and the Enogies, et al.

My point here is about the meaning of the words, not the roles of those whose position is described by those words.

In other words, “Oba” is the word for “King” (meaningless in the Edo language as it is a loan term from Yoruba).

While on the other hand, “Ogie” is the word for King” in the language of the Bini.

“Oba” only came to replace “Ogie” at some point in the course of your history.

Look how a simpeton like you have the audacity to speak on behalf of us Edo ! You just go around making unsubstantiated claims which have severally been debunked while hoping the interlocutor is not aware.

No one seeks to speak on your behalf, I am simply putting you in your little place and rubbing your lies on your face as I always do by citing historical accounts.

LegendHero:
TAO12

You are just wasting time on the guy you are arguing with. It’s just like a professor discussing with a SS1 student coz all the reference you quoted is too complex for him to comprehend.

Lol. I understand perfectly that he is gripped hard by insecurities and inferiority complex.

I am all for him being secure and confident, but I simply choose to rub it on his face making him realize that I can see clearly through his insecurities, inferiority, and lies.

I have known him for some time now under many disguised monikers which he often deletes anyways anyways whenever I disgrace him so badly.

He is Prolog aka ghostwon.

Logycs:
Keep throwing around the names of your two crooks instead of proving your claim.
But it is clear you can't prove your claims, because they are false and nobody can prove what is false.

I am happy to have brought out the clown and schizophrenic in you.

Again, the work of Professors Falola & Childs states clearly that Ahmed Baba’s writings makes reference to “Yoruba” as early as the year 1613.

Academic testimony is proof in epistemology.

For example:

Is the earth spherical?

You’d probably say “yes”.

Prove your “yes” to me without any recourse to academic testimony — that is, without trusting any say-so of ‘others’.

Impossible.

Now, this is well broken down. You should get the gist.

I know you did all along though.

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I am waiting for your maps of the bight of Benin

And YouTube videos of Benin bronzes.

In fact, any unrelated stuffs you can grab as usual.

I will still flog you again and again like I used to do.

Logycs:
1) Actually, 1903 is after Benin empire had already lost a war to the British empire. Many people in Benin empire could already read and write in 1903.
Also a caption of a picture of Oba Ovonramwen dated at 1897 (when Benin empire list the war against British empire) refers to the Oba of Benin as Omo n'Oba n'Edo.
2) 1903 is era contemporary to ours.
3) Now you are putting words into my mouth, I never said that nobody had referred to the Edo people as "bini" before (in this case in 1903), and your text is still nowhere to be seen by the way.

Could you quote the comment of mine which you claim to be replying ? If only to help you read well and understand you are "trying to debunk" a point I never made.
Also, your projections are once again the work of an ignoramus: you claim to have seen a text written in 1903 calling Edos "Bini" and you deduce from that that several hundred years ago, such was how Edos were called.

How does Benin losing a war prove that the people weren’t called “Bini” more than 100 years ago even when the the eye-witness testimony says so??

Are you sure you’re normal?

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Regarding which of your delusions I’m smashing here:

All you have to do to see your comments which I am referring to is to attempt to refresh your memory, or use your “back” button, or do both.

Logycs:
Once again, theatrics and no proof inside.
Ogane is the mythical country of mythical prester John.
But keep arguing fraudulently and diverting from having to prove your own claims and throwing names of those whose poo you swallow.

Same old repetition which no one supports can not challenge multiply attested historical fact.

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I am waiting patiently for you to start attaching MAPS OF BIGHT OF BENIN and Videos of Benin bronzes.

[Only you understand what I mean at this juncture].

Logycs:
Wait, what is your point exactly ? How does this prove your claim that Yoruba was written before 1613 ?
Do you know what you are doing or are you just typing random nonesense ?

The historical fact that the word “Yoruba” was in writing by 1613 is separate and distinct from the point I was making here.

Again, I have already established that repeatedly by citing the works of Professors Falola & Childs where they made reference to Ahmed Baba’s writings as containing the term Yoruba” as early as the year 1613.

However, the specific point I was making in this regard, on the other hand, is to disgrace you for your claim that the Edo people of Benin kingdom were not referred to as “Bini” some hundred years ago.

Guess what, I did exactly that — that is, I disgraced you by quoting an eyewitness documentation of over 100 years ago which shows that the Edo people of Benin kingdom are also referred to as Bini.

In other words, Encyclopaedia Britannica didn’t make stuffs up, nor was its source some alternative, spurious account. d Lol.

Logycs:
So now "ogane" is ooni ?
Wtf is wrong with you ?
"Ogane" is not a person but a country and by the way a mythical country.
Why do you keep telling lies and making false logics ?
The ooni of ife appears on texts only close to the colonial era.
I have told you several times, you are not smart enough nor knowledgeable enough to discuss this topic. Send your professors in and let me have a proper debate.
You are a toddler compared to me.

Now you are just constantly repeating the names of your two crooks like it is supposed to be a magical spell.
I have told you already, I don't care about your two crooked professors. Show me proof ! Prove your claims or shvt up.

Q: Who said Ogane is a country??

A: A certain unknown Nairaland ignoramus by the name Logyc.


Q: Who said Ogane is the Ooni??

A: Stoll 1902:161-166; Roth 1903: 6n1; Marquart 1913:52; Talbot 1926:1155-156, 281-282 3:573; Schurhammer 1928:28-30; Bradbury 1964:151; Paula Marti 1960:63; Mauny 1961:182; Law 1973:17-19; Obayemi 1976:247; Akinjogbin 1967:41-43; Willett 1973:137-138; et al.

Reference: D.M. Bondarenko, (2003), pp.73-74.

Logycs:
You still make no sense.
The Edo people of several hundred years do no longer exist.
The only accounts of their passed is what was written down by foreigners who visited them and witnessed them !
What you are calling "accounts" are nothing but myths.
And once again, the people of the region had no written language. Their words had no spelling untill the Europeans spelled them however they spelled them !

Now you are confusing that with the Edos of today who are alive, breathing, speaking, talking and writing. Of course the person most knowledgeable about the current events of the Edos are the Edos themselves, not some guy in England whom has never visited Africa and whom is writing down what he read online or was told to him by an other ignorant fool.

By the year 1903 — more than 100 years ago — Henry Ling Roth had documented the following from Benin Kingdom:

(1) “As a fact they were always fighting the Bini, and it was to fight them that the king was anxious to get European support to obtain large guns.”

(2) “Dapper says of the religion of the people of Warri, “they have nearly the same customs [“as the Bini”], but they do not sacrifice so many men and cattle, considering it a cruel deed, and the devil’s work; ...””

Reference: H. Ling Roth, Great Benin: Its Customs, Art and Horrors, (1903), pp. 13 and 15 respectively.

And there are countless other references in this 1903 account to Bini as a people.
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Stop fighting history, you wasted your time.

Anyways, I hope your exchange with me here will serve as a motivation for you to read, because I noticed that you fail to cite any historical writing — not even one. Lol.

Logycs:
You are now using the method of the crooks in the "emperor with no clothing"
Of course, anybody whom agrees with you should be called a genius and anybody who disagrees should be called an idiot

Logycs: Professors of history are crooks for citing historical writings.— Logycs, 2020, p.

Me: How is that being crooked?

Logycs: Well, because they shattered the falsehood I have clung to for years.

Me: Oh, I see.

Logycs:
1) you didn't provide the said text and you seemed to have indicated it were writen in 1897, so saying 1800's is just a ruse to try and date it to an earlier date. Yet you still haven't provided the text, so all this talk is rubbish.

I have asked why you think my burden of proof includes buying you the book, or sharing my book with you.

No, my burden of proof is what I have already met, namely: to quote [or paraphrase] the statement, and the to reference it fully.

It is your duty to decide to take it up from there.

2) this your point is totally irrelevant.

Well, I will keep hoping that you will someday update your comment here with an argument.

3) those "personnage" are not proven to have existed, once again you are reasoning based on fragile bases.

A number of collateral evidence exist which prove that Oyo have had kings since at least the 1500s.

One example is of Oyo palace historians (Arokin) whose task is to memorize names of past king for ceremonial and ritual purpose.

This means of preservation may only have a negligible margin of error, if any at all, considering the importance attached to the personages involved.

4) once again nothing proves the king list to be genuin, if anything the king list is 100% false giving that nobody could writes those names down in the period those kings are supposed to have lived.

I am not sure where you got the idea from that what historians regard as history is only what was written down. Lol. That’s a shallow and lazy attempt at understanding what history encompasses in totality.

To insist that “the king list is 100% false” as you’ve claimed, you will have to prove that the general populace in any one specific generation decided to ignore the names of their (past few) kings, and then strangely decided to come up with fictional names in their stead, as well as some fictional personages.

Or that the whole populace in any one specific generation (including those dedicated to the task of committing the king-list to memory) suddenly developed some weird collective amnesia.

This is clearly a very absurd route you’re plying to arrive at a very absurd destination. Lol.

5)once again, you have no text from the 1500's which mention even the word Yoruba. None of your Yoruba chief is ever mentioned until close to the colonial era, so your king list makes no sense at all!

Well, my argument about a text containing the name “Yoruba” is that it dates to the year 1613, and I demonstrated this from Professors Falola & Childs reference to Ahmed Baba’s writing.

Moreover, the “Ogane” (referring to the ‘Ooni’) was mentioned in the 1500 account I earlier alluded to.

You are just producing word salads

I trust that you yourself understand this not to be an argument.

Logycs:
1) Beny refers to a place, a country not a people.

Says who?

And FYI, all these names “Benin”, “Bini” and “Beny” are alien to the people considering their own account.

2) you do understand the person you are referring to didn't speak english, right ? I already explained that Europeans have several languages and spelled sounds according to their languages.
You are not only ill educated, you also have a short memory.

And that was precisely my point — that is all these names are alien to the people themselves.

You seem to be shooting yourself without realizing it.

Logycs:
So your new diversion is about my spellings. Wow.
You are yet to prove any claim of yours. This is turning into a joke. Just shut up and send your so called professors to talk instead of you. You are not mentally equipped for this.

I didn’t even pay attention to the fact that you struggle to spell words until now that you’re self-reporting.

I was talking about the fact that you struggle to string words together, let alone debate a Professor in his own field wherein you’re not even a beginner.

Can’t you see how strong your delusions are? Whatever you’re smoking is indeed of superior quality.

Logycs:
Actually it is more of a combination of several facts:
The writers are our contemporaries. They are not time travelers who witnessed our people calling themselves Bini.
The writers being our contemporary do not know more about the Edo of today about the Edo of today.

You just lack logics, you can't understand simple things.

Your kindergarten reasoning amuses me. Lol.

If you will go this lame route, then which historical Edo person told you that “Benin” is the actual name and not “Bini”?

Your straw-clutching is second to none.

Logycs:
Reply:

Reply:

Yes, I expected that the words of scholars (especially their own references to earlier materials) are only supposed to mean something to someone with some appreciable chunk of IQ.

Logycs:
Once again, the words of your professors don't mean anything to me. If they were here debating me, I would ask them to prove their claims.
You do not belong in a debate, you have nothing to contribute but fanboyism.
The fact you believe and swallow any poo from those professors doesn't mean I have to do the same.

Prove your point and stop saying "those guys said so".
And of course you hype the "professors", all crooked methods used by simpletons.

Yes, I expected that the words of scholars (especially their own references to earlier materials) are only supposed to mean something to someone with some appreciable chunk of IQ.

Logycs:
According to your false logics: the fact a word appears in a proverb means it existed several thousand years ago.

You misconstrued the context of my statement in this regard to say “several thousand years” which I didn’t say.

You also ripped my statement off from its context which should have been that the proverbs relate to specifically ‘known’ Yoruba monarchs in the past.

Your argument here therefore amounts to a straw man fallacy. I didn’t expect much from a Janus-faced Benin liar like you though.

You have no logics, just a bunch of ignorant claims instead.

Lol.

I assume that the reason for your frustration here is because you failed to comprehend the point I had made.

I will therefore re-visit it now, and break it down for you by re-wording it into some clear steps.

(1) As at the 1800s certain Yoruba proverbs were already captured in writing.

(2) The author indicates that as at the time of his documenting these proverbs, they were already widely-known age-long Yoruba proverbs.

(3) The proverbs also specifically relate to different historical personages who have ruled Oyo (for example) at different times.

(4) A consideration of the king lists (of Oyo for example) indicates the approximate number of years past since the reign of these kings/referents.

(5) The conclusion from the foregoing, then, was that the earliest of these particular reigns is in the 1500s, while the latest of them was in the 1700s.

Logycs:
Once again, fanboyism.
You believe the professors you quoted are some superhuman whom nobody on earth could debate. You believe their words are gospel truth which shall never be challenged.
I have information for you: being a professor doesn't make you above scrutiny. It doesn't make you honest nor does it make you a superhuman.
In the field of west African history there have been several crooked professors whom have pushed political ethnic propaganda in their publications as facts. Besides the fact one professor says something doesn't imply there is no professor saying the complete opposit.
This is not maths.

All you do is diversionary tactics.
Just prove your claims !
But you can't, instead you want everybody to believe your super humans.

As I have already said, your are ill equipped to debate this topic and the professors whom you are quoting should be debating with me rather than their fanboy. By the way you don't even know my qualifications, you just assume I am like you with no degrees, just a person who learnt how to read and write.
I probably could educate your so called professors.

You can’t adduce delusions as arguments.

You can hardly string words together yet you want to debate a professor in his field.

Just be rest assured that whatever you’ve been smoking is of superior quality.

Logycs:
now this is just dumb, you need to stop replacing brain work with Google search.

“replacing brain with Google search”?

Do you mean that I should have made stuffs up rather than accessing digital materials (which may also exist in hard copies)?

Obviously the article on Britannica was written recently not several hundred years ago and the people who wrote it are not Edo...is your brain empty ?

Interesting! “tHe pEoPlE wHo WrOtE iT aRe nOt EdO” hence they can not possibly know the names of the Edo people??

What kind of pitiable argument is this? Lol.

Anyways, the word “Benin” which you seem to trust so much is not the earliest written version.

Joao de Barros writing in the 1500 wrote it as “Beny” when documenting about the Ogane.

So, “Beny” is the true name of the Edo people, not “Benin”, right? Lol.

Logycs:
I was waiting for the usual crooked "how Academia works"
Dude, you are a crook, I .not your usual backward Nigerian whom you can fool with these tactics.
You haven't proven any of your points.
You are only using diversionary tactics, now you want to turn the discussion into "how academia works" while hoping I would act like an unsecured and ill educated person who would say "I know how academia works" and join in a diversionary debate with no substance. Just prove your claims.

Lol. Why do you think I am to blame for your naiveness??

Logycs:
Yet an other fraud ! The text which you are quoting out of context makes reference to a text written by a person alive in the 1980's so did your Colombine de Nantes make a time machine to come into our 1980's and write his text ?
So you can't post the link for people to see the full text for themselves ? You are such a crook !

Your out of context text is below:

Like I had mentioned earlier, an appreciable chunk of IQ is required to grasp many of these discourse which are gradually deepening beyond your horizon.

Columbins wrote in French, and the source in that reference which cited him is one English translation. There are many other translations of the father’s letter in this regards.

Logycs:
An other diversion tactic, why am I not surprised.
While we are speaking specifically about the terms "Yoruba" and "Yoruba", you want the discussion to go rather into "nago" and who knows what.

The context of my cursory allusion to “Nago” makes it clear that I was emphasizing the fact that the Yoruba subgroups have always belonged to one broader ethno-linguistic group even before the word “Yoruba”.

I alluded to this point while also maintaining the historical fact that the word “Yoruba” is known in writing in at least the year 1613.

You will need an appreciable chunk of IQ to be able to flow with many of my arguments

Logycs:
look I don't care about the professors you keep talking about. I don't give into fanboyism. If you have a claim, you provide proof instead of trying to dodge by any means necessary. You have admitted to not having any proof for your claim. So it ends there.
As of yet, there is still no text written prior to the 29th century which mentions Yoruba or yar.iba.

Citing academic sources (especially of authoritative academics) is a valid and logical way of establishing a case.

And as I have done, the joint work of Professors Falola & Childs states clearly that Ahmed Babas writings contain reference to “Yoruba” as early as the year 1613.

Logycs:
You are seeking like a broken record.

I already addressed this:

1)

2)

I will keep up hope that you will someday update your comment here with a fresh argument that I haven’t crushed already.