₦airaland Forum

sammyfrosh:
Let me just leave this here bro.
It should clarify more on the matter.

https://www.facebook.com/262884720484190/posts/2516458288460144/?d=n

I have seen this picture and this post many, many times.

Whoever wrote the Facebook post was simply pursuing the same kind of argument you're pursuing.

His argument is simply that: If tigers were ever seen by the Yorubas, then there would at least have been artworks depicting it.

He then argued the contrapositive that since there has never been any such art work depicting tigers, then the Yoruba word Ekun must refer to an animal other than Tiger.

Now, the premise for his contrapositive argument here is what is false. And this is my point.

We know it is false to say there has never been any such artwork because Richard Lander visited the capital of the Great Oyo Empire in the year 1826, and he saw carvings of different animal around the principal Oyo-Ile shrine.

For some of these carvings he documented the following words: "wooden images of tigers".

Now, the question which you must honestly and truthfully consider to yourself (devoid of any polemical motive) is that: an European sees artworks of the animal below, and then wrote that what he is seeing is a tiger?

No, that's simply not true, unrealistic, dishonest, and farfetched.

This is the evidence we need to shut the viral but false idea that there were no knowledge of tigers in Yorubaland.

Yes, out ancestors knew tigers and Lander's documentation proved that they did as they carved artworks of it.

Similarly, the Europeans knew about Elephants, even though Elephants aren't found in Europe.

Finally, just like I have done, the Facebook post also mentions that the claim of equating Owawa as Cheetah is nonsensical.

sammyfrosh:
Maybe they saw carvings of leopard not tiger bro. Tiger is found in the Eurasian continents not on our African soil.

Richard Lander visited Oyo-Ile in 1826 where he described the carved wooden artworks placed around the principal shrine of Oyo-Ile.

He noted in his documentation that he saw "wooden images of tigers" as well as other animal images he wrote about.

I can give you the full quotation and reference to his documention of what he wrote that he saw at the shrine.

You wouldn't want to stand by your notion that this European saw a wooden image of the animal shown in the attachment below, but somehow in writting decided to spell it as T-I-G-E-R. Lol. It's obvious that's simply not true.

I can understand if this documented experience causes you to wonder how the Oyos (or Africans generally) knew about tigers to have carved them around an Oyo-Ile shrine.

But to suggest that this European saw the animal shown in the attachment below, but wrote tiger instead is not only to be close-minded, but also to be non-realistic.

But to answer this question, the ancient Oyo people's evident knowledge and experience of tigers (despite tigers being exclusive to Eurasia) is as the knowledge and experience of elephants by the western Europeans (despite elephants being exclusive to Africa and few parts of Asia).

People move around. People have contacts with others. Animals also go extinct.

The leopard is the one actually called Ekùn while the cheetah is Amotekun or owawa due to its spot that bear resemblances to that of the leopard’s.

This is what must be proven, especially since the assumption on which this conclusion is based has been proven untrue by the knowledge of "tigers" in ancient Oyo.

Moreover, Owawa is not close -- by any stretch of the imagination -- to any of the wild cats.

I have seen an Owawa killed before. It's a very, very, very small animal relative to the wild cats. It's size and feature is about that of say a grasscutter.

It's nothing comparable to any of the wild cats.

sammyfrosh:
@op

Leopard is Ekùn not the tiger. We have no word for tiger in the yoruba language since it’s not native to sub Saharan Africa.

Cheetah is Amotekun.

Your welcome

The bolded is inaccurate.

The first European travellers to explore the Yoruba interior wrote descriptions of some Oyo-Ile shrines (in the Old Oyo Empire) with a carvings of tiger as decorative art.

The artist and natives have obviously see the real-life version of what they carved, and they of course have a name for it.

If you care to see the description in the eye-witness report, I will take the time to type it in.

Cheers!

sammyfrosh:
So is it true that Yoruba and binin are culturally related?

If so, in what ways. Please can someone enlighten me a little bit?

Take your time to read through this thread. It's about one of such cultural relation.

You may check out my comments particularly if you wish to.

gregyboy:
Boredom

gregyboy:
Boredom go kill you

No distractions allowed. Address the issue.

Benin paid (and continues till date to pay) homage to Ife.

Ask EwuareII

gregyboy:
[s]Rubbish, get me a dahomey source agreeing to oyo dominanc[/s]

The same one right in front of you -- Archibald Dalzel, "History of Dahomey", 1793.

Guess what! They even speak Yoruba till date.

E pain am!

gregyboy:
No he drank poison remeber..... He was a weakling and puppet to his hausa master which betrayed him and had to commit suicide.....

TAO11 have sense dead men dont act

(1) No, it's only in Edoland that people get poisoned, bewitched, and sorts of evil you can think of. According to you, Awolowo maltreated your fore-parents.

(2) Dead men don't act, yet you are dead-scared of the name "Awolowo" to the extent that you attribute all your problems (including your impotence) to Awolowo.

I won't stop scaring you with that name. Watch your back, Awolowo is coming.

gregyboy:
Letme see tye author of the book ths lies must be coming from a Yoruba author... Lies dahomey did the conquering and brought oyo collapse

I want to see the author of the book

Hahaha! E pain am!

Remember where you admitted that you're foolish, after being disgraced??

See link here for a fresh reminder: https://www.nairaland.com/5858411/oyo-successor-state#89563875

Those pages above are from Professor S.A. "Akintoye's "A History of the Yoruba People" -- The same professor you cited some days ago while trying to spin his words.

His writting which I attached above is simply a restatement of the eyewitness account of the European slave trader Archbald Dalzel who lived in Dahomey in the 1700s.

Archibald Dalzel's "History of Dahomey" -- published in the year 1793 -- has the following to say on Oyo's ascendancy over Dahomey. See attachments.

Poor Edo liar boy is already being soaked in his tears today again.

cc: RuggedSniper, gomojam, MetaPhysical, Moneywomen17, babtoundey

gregyboy:
[s]#Pained
Lol, another one pained here ....
With your smelly mouth youre using to say shut up.... Mumu woman abi man[/s]

Let me scare this little poor boy!

Watch out! Watch out!! Watch out!!! Awolowo is at your back.

gregyboy:
#Pained

The statement truth is painful was never a lie

Nxt life yorubas will conquer edo and influence them both culturally and religiously but as for this life there is no hope

Our naked ancestors according to TAO11 conquered yorubas...
Lol

Shut up!

"The Benin lie about conquest is only an imagination in our heads." --- gregyboy, 2020.

gregyboy:
(1) [s]They aint even ashamed to say it, our naked ancestors gave them everything they hold as culture today..... They paid tribute to our naked ancestors, lol...... The yoruba people are good at mouth making....[/s]

(2) Even female warriors from dahomey sacked thier empire at a time.....

(1) Your first claims here have been dealt with beyond remedy.

In fact, you eventually agreed that all the so-called Benin conquests are simply imaginations in the head of the Edos.


(2) You've tried this nonsense before on another thread where you were eventually disgraced.

See the attached screenshots for the 2nd half of your disgrace.

cc: RuggedSniper, gomojam, MetaPhysical, Moneywomen17, babtoundey

Licking your wound in a corner far away from sight.

gregyboy:
[s]You're bored again go chat your brothers

Probably you're Hot, sorry am not interested i heard from the igbos saying yoruba women are dirty in there so i will pass[/s]

No distractions allowed.

Address the isssue.

Benin pays homage to Ife, and it still continues till date. Ask EwuareII -- he did on ascension.

gregyboy:
Am trying to picture how our naked fathers bleeped and raped your clothed women without stress why your clothed male couldn't do anything

Yes, you got it right. The only conquest the Binis made hapened right inside their head or imagination.

That's why I always drag you all into the real world of facts and reality.

gregyboy:
[s]Youre always making joke TAO11 be serious for once i will call your mom now.[/s]..

It's an open secret.

It's still happeninng even in modern times.

Ask the Omo N'Oba N'Edo, Oba EwuareII.

Stop pretending to be unaware, Edeyoung.

gregyboy:
A mythical town that never existed

And Benin paid homage to its non-existence.

Wawu!

gregyboy:
TAO11 TAO12 has gone mad

E pain am!

gregyboy:
Our ancestors were naked.... Abi?

Am asking

Of course they (the Edos) were. That unclothedness point dey pain una sha oo!

Of course the Benin royalty (who are Yorubas) wore clothes tho.

An interesting question:

Do you know what these 3 individuals (Oranmiyan, Awolowo, and Tao) have in common in relation to the Edos' Kingdom??

davidnazee:
i

*

davidnazee:
And all three have Edo blood in them.. even you too because I remember after the conquest of Awori, the naked Benin warriors were breeding the Awori women.. so u may just be an offspring of that union lol..

You mean blood transfusion?

Trying to make excuse for why Edos were mistreated by the Yorubas.

davidnazee:
What contention when you cannot comprehend anything? I wonder if you quarrel with the internet or historical archives because everywhere you look always says Benin conquered Aworis settlements (not Lagos because Lagos wasn't in existence then as "Lagos" )

The dissidents in the attachment refers to the Aworis your tribe.

The statement here (about conquest) does not agree with any eyewitness report.

Moreover, your screenshot is from an Edo-blog, namely: "Osaroblogspot".

Stop fraudulently passing-off Edo-blogs as though you're presenting an academic material.

You’re too desperate to be a Lagosian. I live your dream already.

davidnazee:
[s]You really are pained by Benin suzerainty over Lagos.. It seems to be a stain on your fake heritage and you can't wipe it away.. sorry oo.

You keep translating Ulsheimer's sojourn is Lagos in anyway that fits your foolish narrative.. Please can you also translate the part that say "Ulsheimer served in the Benin Army in its war against Lagos".. Since you keep denying Benin fought any war in Lagos, can you explain that too?[/s]

The bolded part of your comment confims that Binis are truly scared of reading what they intend to respond to.

Ethin-ulcer and gayboy already confirmed to me that they're dead-scared of reading. Now, you just joined their gutter rank.

It must be an Edo thing. So we have our latest Edo illiterates as follows: Ethin-ulcer, gay-boy, and deafened-nasty.


Having said that, I didn't ask for your tears. Keep it, I dont need it.

What I asked for, instead, is reasonable contentions. Is that too much to ask for from an Edo?

davidnazee:
We don;t need God to tell us about Benin.. Traces of Great Benin oppression of the Yorubas is still visible till tomorrow.. That is all the evidence we need..
Ozuor..

Did the definition of oppression change at any time in human history?

I will list just three names below without saying one additional thing, yet the message will hit you:

(1) Oranmiyan (ancient)

(2) Awolowo (modern)

(3) Tao ('post-modern')

davidnazee:
Instead of arguing blindly why don't you bring out evidence that Olokun worship began in Yorubaland..

You already wrote one of the evidences yourself.

Yes, it's that deep.

davidnazee:
Actually I think you are correct about the bold statement above..
Everything we know about Ife is what the Europeans wrote.. and they all wrote that Ife is a Myth..

While everything you know about Benin is what God wrote and he said Benin is a Myth.

Oga, look for another corner to go lick your wound jarey!

Ma kpa okuta si oro.

RuggedSniper:
Absolutely! @TAO12... Even right up to the 1910s, the HEADS of Obas of Benin were BURIED in Ile Ife at the OBA ADO GROVE (In Yoruba, ADO=EDO) to indicate their paternal lineage via Oranmiyan. Oba Eweka was born of an Edo woman of noble origin. The Ooni of Ife in 2018 wanted to show Oba Eweka the 2nd of Benin Kingdom where the heads of Bini Obas were buried on his first visit to Ife, but there was limited time. 2. The HEADS of the kings of Eko were buried in EKO as you have also said in your post. One love to all the Yoruba and Bini-Edo peoples! Cheers.

You seem to have missed my earlier clarification bro. See link below:

https://www.nairaland.com/5846195/benins-owners-ogboni-confraternity-olokun/23#90678106

davidnazee:
You forgot to add mythical Ife empire.

Show me Ewuare before Talbot invented him to deceive your fore-parents. /s

Show me Ekaladerhan before Roth invented him to deceive your fore-parents. /s

Who witnessed them (and many other audio Obas of Benin) just like gregyboy would ask? /s

It appears that your own shallow standards hurt you so bad.

Moreover, you're correct about Ife, the Europeans brought Ife with them on their ships and dropped it in Osun State. /s

RuggedSniper:
^^
NOTE: FROM PG 5 TO PAGE 51!

I'm lost here. Lol.

RuggedSniper:
^^AWESOME!... ADO AKURE?, ADO EKITI?

No! Benin itself was known in ancient times as "Ado" -- by the Binis themselves.

RuggedSniper:
Thanks @TAO12 for the Lagos burial info here! I've learned from you and will stay in touch. By the way... my late maternal grandma was from Lagos Island as well, and her birth mother who was a chief and an Awolowo political loyalist had links with the Ogboni based on the outfit/shawl she wore in a well-preserved 1950s picture that I first saw in 2008. It was my mum who told me what it was. The historic 1950s picture of my bespectacled maternal great-grandma got missing all of a sudden, and my mum may have destroyed it in 2009 because of her xtian faith.

Awww!

Yeah it's called "Shàkì".

There is also a traditional shoulder leather bag which is part of their outfit.

It's called "Akpo Làbá".

I grew up seeing a lot of those around me. Lol.

They're used by the Ogboni group (aka. Oshugbo group).

They're also used by the Okpa group too.

RuggedSniper:
Absolutely! @TAO12... Even right up to the 1910s, the HEADS of ALL Obas of Benin were BURIED in Ile Ife at the OBA ADO GROVE (In Yoruba, ADO=EDO) to indicate their paternal lineage via Oranmiyan. Oba Eweka was born of an Edo woman of noble origins. The Ooni of Ife in 2018 wanted to show Oba Eweka the 2nd of Benin Kingdom where the heads of Bini Obas were buried on his first official visit to Ife, but there was limited time. 2. The HEADS of the kings of Eko were buried in EKO as you have also said in your post. One love to all the Yoruba and Bini-Edo peoples! Cheers.

A quick clarification:

(i) The heads of the Benin Obas taken to Ife are for every third reign.

(ii) The custom was stopped just before Oba Ovoranmwen's reign from whom the British hijacked the Benin polity.

(iii) When Oba Ewuare II visited Ife, he actually paid homage at the Orun Oba Ado site. Channels TV confirmed this.

Also, from a dependable source, I learnt he also completed his ascension rites at the Oranmiyan grove -- which is the actual reason for the visit anyways -- just as is always the custom.

Follow the link I embedded in the comment above for the details on the Orun Oba Ado burial.

Cheers!