₦airaland Forum

@denex,

Have you studied the simple arithmetic I just schooled you in? Rather than take your time to to study it, learn and take correction, you're blowing hot wind in here.

I wish you do follow your own logic and advice sometimes. First you calimed the U.S. economy did not experience real growth because the dollar has been devalued. I countered that argument by showing you an increase in hundreds of billions of British pounds using the same method you prescribed. I would rather you take your own advice and "study this, learn and take correction instead of blowing hot here."

You also mentioned in passing that gas prices have not really increased because it is just a sign of the inflation experienced in the U.S. How untrue. I intend to call some friends in London and Germany today and ask if they are still paying the same prices they paid for gas as before. In the mean time, here is an article on BBC with regards to the increase in gas price in the U.K. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4723648.stm

@denex,

And yet you still do not answer me. All the billions of Dollars of AID, what have they done in your local government area? Nay what have they done in Lagos? Please somebody just one example so I can go and check it out.

I worked with an engineering consultancy in Lagos that designed and implemented a lot of World Bank projects especially in the areas of water distribution. An acquaintance I met in postgraduate shool here just returned from Africa (can't remember where exactly). She and her husband provided their skills to develop the community through sponsorship from the U.S. government. Here is a link to USAID activities in Nigeria http://www.usaid.gov/locations/sub-saharan_africa/countries/nigeria/. That you do not know does not mean it don't exist. Besides, all the aid provided to Africa is public knowledge, and no country has yet claimed the promises were never fulfilled.

@denex, I-man,

Abeg George Bush has ruined the Image of the US.
Rights are abused, elections are rigged, documents are falsified, the country is placed in a state of emergency and ruled under marshall law for upwards of 4 years (here in Nigeria, a state of emergency was declared in Ekiti State and after 5 months, senate stood up against it.

I actually missed this statement by denex until I-man brought it to my attention. Now this makes for classic comic relief. Please let us know which State in the U.S is under curfew by reason of the martial law (not marshall law as you stated). As far as I know, the U.s. is still a 24 hour economy with no restriction of movement and the Judiciary has not been usurped by the military. Please tell us, has Chief Justice Robert "stepped-aside" for Marine General Peter Pace?

@denex,

Tayo, this discussion has gotten to a highly intellectual level whereby you cannot just jump and randomly spit out fables like

I am sure the one spitting fables is you. I have presented facts above and I look forward to your acknowledging your innacuracies or at least provide some arguments based on facts.

*No more Taliban

I already explaned that my comment about the taleban is on their hold on power.

*Voting rights for women is Saudi

Davidylan already provided the link where the experts declare it is a significant step forward.

*Democracy in Iraq.

Don't tell me you think Iraq is more democratic under Saddam where the minority were in power than it is now where the majority democratically elected a parliament, president and also drafted a constitution! If peace is your idea of democracy, we caould as well declare that saudi Arabia is more democratic than Nigeria!!!

We're talking about a president's effort in curbing greenhouse gases and someone is saying emissions have reduced since 1980.

Can you kindly tell us how greenhouse effect can be curtailed without reducing emmissions? And by the way, technology is the main limiting factor and not any government's policy. I just sat through a seminar presented by the consulting company to 6 State government here in the U.S., so I know.

@denex,

And Tayo mentioned that women is Saudi now have the right to vote. The right to vote what? A KING?
What is the use of the Ministry of Transport giving me a licence to pilot alien ships when I'm never actually going to use it.

Davidylan already responded to this eloquently but I'd like to look at it from another perspective. Democracy was brought to Iraq through the gun while it is gradually being brought to Saudi Arabia and other countries through diplomacy. The later route is time comsuming and very gradual but it is still a definite movement in the right direction. Clinton hob-nobed with the Saudi Royals throughout his tenure and didn't achieve this feat. Shouldn't you guys just be fair-minded and acknowledge the truth?

@denex,

4) then there's the issue of the Economy. Increase in GDP, broken records in the stock market, increase in tax revenues, increase per capita from $29,000-$34,000, increase in the economy from $10trillion-13trillion (isn't that the same thing as increase in GDP? My friend, stop double counting. We're not idiots in here). Anyway,  do you think that these increases actually took place or as the dollar is getting weaker, they are counting it as progress.
If in 1998 (when $1 was N88) I was earning N88,000 , then in 2007 (when the $1 is N127) I am now earning N127,000. Does that mean that Obasanjo has done well?
The problem you guys have here is simply mathematical.
That is why I never argued that there was increase in gasoline cost. The increase is not REAL, It's INFLATIONARY. Convert those figures to a more stable currency like the Pound. Convert the figures for year 2000 to the exchange rate of the Pound in year 2000, then convert the figures in year 2007 using the exchange rate to the Pound in year 2007. What you have there my friend is total economic decline. The stock market is actually crashing but inflation is making it look good. Per capita is actually stagnant yet inflation makes it seem it's rising. Economics is like the Bible, you don't just interprete the meaning from face value.

I wish you had followed your logical argument and not rely on your prejudiced speculations in arriving at a conclusion. Now let's follow your advice and arrive at a conclusion based on facts. The average exchange rate of the dollar to the British Pounds so far for the year 2007 is 0.507788 while the average rate in year 2000 is 0.661037. Therefore the U.S economy has grown from 6.61037 trillion pounds in 2000 to 6.90592 trillion pounds in 2007, which represents an increase of over 295 billion pounds in 7 years. Kindly tell us which other country has grown that much in the same period as the U.S. under the Presidency of Bush.
NB. These values are based on the $10 trillion in 2000 to the $13.6 trillion dollars estimate of the American economy!!!
You can chenck the following links for the exchange rates: http://www.x-rates.com/d/GBP/USD/hist2007.html and http://www.x-rates.com/d/GBP/USD/hist2000.html.

@denex,

2) Tune to CNN or BBC. Cos somebody just said there's no more Taliban. No more Taliban. Yay! Hurray!
a chinook helicopter downed on wednessday: 5 US soldiers killed, 1 British, 1 Canadian. 16 Afghan policemen ambushed and killed same day. What's killing them? Malaria? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6707929.stm

I thought I am in a debate with people who can reason beyond what they are just reading! That I said "no more taleban" does not mean the Taleban cease to exist but that the Taleban is no more in power. It means the same people who took other people's freedom are no longer free to roam about in full view of the public where they once hold sway. I trust you are aware that President Hamid Karzai was democratically elected after the U.S. routed the Taleban from power. That is another achievement of Bush which I didnt mention earlier!!

3)Libya did not have any nuclear anything. They saw that everyone was falling mugu for this whole antiterror/Nuclear weapons format, so Ghaddafi claimed he was abandoning his nuclear ambition so Britain and some other EU countries struck a sweet deal with him only to later find out that this guy could not build a nuclear bomb in the Next 200 years with the technology he had.

Now this is passing your speculation as facts. The opposite of what you claim is actually the case. Libya was further along in their quest for nuclear, chemical and biological weapons that the west ever thought they were. And by the way, are wee to wait till they are 5 minutes away from obtaining nuclear weapons before we start to negotiate? Please see http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/africa/12/19/libya.nuclear/index.html

@denex,

Unfortunately, my computer froze up the last time I tried to post a reply and I lost all I had been typing. That wasn't fun at all. I will try and break up my responses now into tiny bits both for easy reading and avoid the potential of wasting so much energy.

1) George Bush himself just admitted that there's been no progress in Sudan. Coercion which does not yield result is simple wickedness.

Did you bother to ask yourself why this is the case? It's all because China has been sabotaging the U.S. efforts because of their interests in Sudan's oil. It appears only Bush has been making an effort to end the genocide while the UN is unable to do anything for lack of political will and clout. I wish other nations too will apply sanctions tro compliment U.S. efforts and let's see if their wont be a change. In any case, the U.S. just expanded the sactions this past week to forbid any U.S. affiliated company or professional from doing business with Sudan. Please tell us, what are other countries doing to end this bloodshed?

@denex,

One thing I really expected from all you on the proBUSH bank of the river is to declare what he has achieved.

I for one have had to clear up all the lies and misconceptions so far that I've not had the time to get to this.

Did he finally resolve the middle east crisis?

So you expect him to solve a century old problem on two terms? If you hold Clinton to the same standard, perhaps the middle east problem would have been solved befoe Bush came on board!

Did he curb pollution? What did he do?

Here is I-man's post earlier in answer to this: For someone calling Bush a liar,you just told a blatant lie. Here are the real facts as Henry Payne pointed out in a recent article: Lead air levels dropped 96% since 1980,sulfur dioxide dropped 63%,carbod monoxide concentrations reduced 74%In addition, fine particulate matter was reduced 40 percent. Soot, nitrogen oxide and organic compounds have all decreased as well. In fact, in all of last year, there was not a single code red ozone day. Not one.-http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba/ba577/

The lower the pollutants get,the higher the rhetorics from environmentalists who survive on raising alarm.

What about greenhouse emissions?That fell 1.3% even as the economy grew 3.3% last year.Significant since its the first time emissions have fallen in a non-reccession year since 1990-http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/23/AR2007052301510.html

Has he even built the missile defence system that was on his campaign Manifesto?

That is in progress despite Russia's tantrums.

At least OBJ still turned Nigeria Airways to virgin Nigeria, solidify the banking and insurance industry, improve telecomms by more than 1000% with GSM and internet, launched Tinapa, maintained a stable currency. Even look at the entertainment industry in Nigeria. It was OBJ that compelled all the TV stations towards 100% local content starting with his own NTA. That is why we have what obtains in the Industry today.

Are you so quick to turn your back on your own principles by comparing Naija to America? How relevant is this to our discussion?

So abeg, somebody tell me what the man Bush has achieved in the past seven years. Oh I forgot. He couldn't do much because of the war. The war which he started in the first place!

Bush got off-track after 911 and I just hope you are not among the conspiracy theorists who claim America carried out that attack.
Now let us list the things that Bush has done;
*  Libya giving up its nuclear plans
*  North Korea giving uo her nuclear plans.
*  No more Taleban
*  Democracy in Iraq
*  Women now voting in Saudi Arabia
*  Egypt moving more towards democracy
*  Trade with Africa is at its highest
*  Elimination of import taxes for all African goods entering the U.S.
*  The stock market is breaking its records almost every week.
*  Home ownership (especially amoing minorities) is at the highest ever
*  Unemployment rate is at record lows etc,

@denex,

as I see people trying to justify George Bush's actions. However, I'm not going to get emotional about anything.
First off, to even be trying to compare Nigeria with the US in order to see who has actually performed worse just goes to tell you that W. really messed up.

America is far different from Nigeria and vice versa. However, comparisons between nations is in order when considering relative economic progrss and retrogrssion. It is funny how you guys tag Bush the worst President in U.S. histroy and yet you do not want us to compare him to past Presidents. You claim Americans are worse off under his presidency and yet we cannot compare the relative lifestyles of Americans and other nations. So what is the basis of these discussions?!

Rigged the Election to get into office for his first tenure. Ballot papers were found loitering in as far away as Australia!

How could he have rigged an election when the democrats held the balance of power? Please explain that to us. The democrats would have impeached him long ago if he was involved in any criminality. Do spare us the speculations.

He started his administration with tax rebates. These tax rebates took money back from government coffers to the hand of the consumers and since there was so much money in the hands of the consumers, the producers wanted it so they reduced supply. Too much money chasing too few goods that's good ol' inflation. That's the genesis of how �1is almost $2 today.

Your analogy will readily deceive people who do not think it through properly. Let's assume the money is left in the hands of the government (which producers are also aware of). Why would they not increase the cost of goods just to lay hold of that money in Government's hands, knowing fully well that the government will always subsidise the price of goods in order to be affordable.  The difference between the money in the hands of the government and the people is just a matter of switching the roles of the bigger consumer!
Think of it this way. The government never invests money but spends it! Citizens are the investors who think of how to make more money with the one they have in hand. So who do you think will boost better economic growth with more money in hand? The governent (a perpetual spender) or the citizens ( the perpetual investor).

Secondly, since the producers saw they were making equal amount of money by producing less, they didn't see the use of huge staff. Therefore job cuts in the early 2000. Even the companies that have been trying to cut jobs but didn't know how, the 911 disaster came as a good excuse.

Can you please give us a good example. Let me start by citing the case Ford Motors who consider job cuts necessary just so they could cut their losses, and not to multiply profits as you have claimed.

US debt is now more than $7trillion. Come, I didn't say billion O! $7trillion! That's almost double where Clinton left it. Now, the US had a debt ceiling of $6trillion; when it got there, bush pushed for it to be $7trillion. Nothing dey happen. Now it's 7, he says $8trillion wouldn't be bad. And very few Americans know about this.

Americans are well aware of what is going on. The goverment always raise the ceiling each time they need more money.  If you will follow the history of American National Debt, you will realise that America was not in debt until the First World War. The debt would have been paid up but for World War 2. Now America is in another war and the National debt, though increasing, has helped to ward off any recession.  Imaging a growing economy in the midst of such war spending bill. Like all othe past debts, the present one will be paid off and Bush has actually reduced the national deficit by half ahead of his planned schecule.

Now you guys are turning this forum into an avenue to throw slurs around. I will have to excuse myself from the discussions if it continues this way.

@Bankole01,

When did this become a personal issue between you and I?

It's no personal issue, just that you are presenting lies as facts.

Where do you live man? gas at $2.03/ gallon?

That was a typographical error which I already corrected. I meant to write $3.38 and $3.03 as against $2.38 and $2.03. The higher price was for last week as agisnt the lower price for this morning. so you are deliberately misleading people when you claim gas prices keep going up despite the fact that crude oil prices are falling.

Look I live in Denver, Co. There are two refineries within ten miles of my home,and I bought discount gas yesterday at $3.19/ gallon at Kingsoopers stores.

Can you find out when those refineries were built and if they have the capacity along with the others to meet the rising demand? Like I said, I bought gas this morning @3.02/gallon and please be honest enough to tell us what the difference in the cost of the gas is compared with yesterday.

Is this a lie? You need to be more logical when you argue brother, guard your temperament and don't be childish!!!!!!!!!!

The lie is you telling us that gas prices are not reflecting the falling costs of crude oil which they actually do. The illogical person here is you. You've presented lies as truth and in the process maligned another's character. Please prove I am childish by countering the facts I presented above!

@Bankole01,

The unprescedented rise in gas has a lot to do with Bush because of his close relation to oil companies. The price of oil has actually gone down in the last few days yet price at the pumps keep going up.
It was also reported that the oils companies are delibrately keeping prices up by refining less oil to artificialy inflate prices. This is why the Congress had decided to wade in inti this murky business.

I find this a very funny statement coming from someone who lives in America.

For one, the Clinton's relationship with the Mornarchy in the Middle East is far closer than that of Bush.  You lie when you say the price at the pumps keep going up. I bought gas into my wife's car last week for $3.38/gallon, and I just filled my car this morning at $3.03/gallon!  Why can't you guys be truthful for once?

The congress you are talking about is the main cause of higher gas prices. Bush planned to explore oil in Alaska to reduce America's dependence on foreign oil but the congress blocked it, he sought for laws to build more Nuclear power stations but the congress blocked it. No new refinery has been built in the U.S. for decades because the democrats would not allow it and yet you blame Bush for everything.

The Republican Governor of Minnesota just vetoed a bill by the Democrats who were increasing gas taxes again and yet we blame Republicans. Your effort only betrays your lack of knowledge or your blatant lies.

@Tornadoz,

If any body died in Iraq during Clinton's era, blame the entire UN.
The one's dieing in Iraq now are as a direct result of America's buffoon leader who invaded a sovereign country.

You just have to condescend to name-calling again, right? You are getting too predictable man. So it is okay when the UN takes an action that results in the death of a million people but it is unacceptable if another person with the same goals use some other means? Please tell me if you will support a situation where the U.S. gets into Sudan unilaterally to stop the genocide even if the UN as usual stand against such a move?

Lest not forget the topic title : Is Bush Destroying What America Stands For? If you think he is not destroying what the US stands for, by all means give the reasons.

How can you discuss what America stands for without reference to the actions of her past Presidents and their policies?

@I-man,

I doff my hat for you! Going by your submissions, it is obvious that George Bush's greatest undoing is not giving enough resources to people who can really polish his image much like other past presidents have done. His "enemies" are seemingly better at the propanganda game than he is. I guess he just believes in doing what he thinks is right regardless of public opinion - that can be both good and bad.

@Bankole01,

Support Bush if you want. As far as I am concerned, Bush is a boob and a bumbling moroon.

Another smear campaigner on the loose!

First, he could never have been pressident if the Supreme court appointed by his father had not given him an affirmative vote. He had a stolen mandate.

If for the sake of argument we assume that his first term was based on a questionable mandate, how about the second when he won fair and square?!

His foreign policy was non-existent. He maligned a lot of nations and the UN body itself.

Case in point??

He started an unnecessary war in Iraq, telling lies to support to support need for war.

If you call basing his action on faulty intelligence lies, then I guess he is a Liar in your own world!

His presidency is the most corrupt in American history, turning the war in Iraq to business, making a lot money for friends. His vice becoming a billioneer from the proceeds of war.

How did you come to that conclusion? What statistics did you consult to arrive at that conclusion? Cheney has always been a rich man with financial interests with Halliburton. Your focus on ill-gotten wealth would probably yield better results if you focus on the Clintons.

He mortgaged peoples lifes to big business, especially the oil companies. Gas prices in America rose unprecedented to the highest prices in ages.

And that is the fault of President Bush? Please try to understand what is going on and not malign others character throguh ignorance!

Gas is now selling an average of $3.39/girl.

How much is it selling for in Nigeria?

Bush's administration has been a disaster for Americans.

In your opinion!

He was democrat, the hateful Republicans would have impeached him!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can't you present your case without labelling people? Now it is 'hateful republicans'. You really need to detoxicate yourself of that hatred! The only reason why no one is able to impeach Bush is because he plays by the law and has not violated the constitution! Even the Democrats know better than to embark on such a futile journey! You may not believe this but your aversion for Bush is no grounds for impeachment.

@militia,

TAYO-D, That means your equity after junk fees/air fares and settling relatives will probably be $45,000 or less.

What do you mean by junk fees/air fares? My commitment to my family in Naija is not based on my home equity, so I know not what you are talking about. And by the way, how does all that relate to the topic at hand?

Do you think you can invest $45,000 in Nigeria  That is not enough pocket money for 6 months!!!!

This your exageration na wa. I have shares in Naija that is not up to that amount and it has yielded more than double my investment.  $45,000 is chicken cahnge? No wonder the public officials are corrupt.  I lived in Abuja about up till I left for the U.S. My salary was slighlty over N1,000,000 per annum and I was very comfortable.  I was back in Naija last year and though there has been inflation, it is not that bad.

Nigeria is a very expensive society to maintain your current lifestyle.

What lifestyle are you talking about?

Please think of some mutual funds, retirement plan or college funds for the kids----

Thanks for the advice.

or stick to buying and selling cars for quick returns.

Excuse me? You totally lost me here!

@I-man,

@TayoD
Bush has a lot of failings but what I resent is the popular impression that he is irredeemably incompetent and that his reign has been a cataclysmic failure.Far from that,there are many successes one can point to.
The unpopularity of the Iraq campaign has led to the ridiculous demonisation of Bush.This singular issue and his foreign policy in general has led to visceral hatred of the Bush adminstration as manifested in the amount of prejudiced information one comes across in the media and the internet.
Being a bit of a nerd myself,who bothers to study economic data,I know that the picture is mixed.Bush is not an irredemable failure and is not destroying America.

You are so right with your submission. The reason why people like you and me have been labelled Bush-supporters is because we refuse to be guided by prejudice and ignorance. While I do have my reservations about some aspects of Bush's governance, I fail to see the need for all the venom that has been directed at his person. While reference to the Iraqi war is justified, no one in all good conscience can say Bush is the one responsible for the civil war between the Sunnis and the Shias.

Casualty figures are presented everyday with respect to the Iraq war, but no one has yet given the figures of the unborn children whose lives have been saved by Bush's stand on abortion and his appointments of Justices to the Supreme Court to further his agenda. All I see are selective presentation of incomplete data to back up a prejudiced position.

@I-man,

Thanks for those figures. I bought my home two years ago for $310,000.00. I am in the process of refinancing with the option to cash out and the house has been appraised for $360,000.00. Imagine if I cash out all the equity, I'll probably invest some in naija as well and Bush's seeming failure will be bringing more forex to Naija!

@mamajama,

davidylan you are in Rochester right? what is the average price of house in NYC now compare to 4 years ago?

May I ask you to compare the cost of houses in Nigeria today with the cost 4 years ago?  I bought a piece of land in Abuja just before I came to the U.S. The asking price now is more than quadruple what I paid for it. That is just to tell you that real estate goes up everywhere in the world.

do you watch CNN even MSNBC that is always bias when it comes to the republicans.

This is news to me.  CNN and MSNBC are allies of the Republican Party?  Are you sure you live in the U.S.?

we all agree Nigeria is not in the best of shape.

It's more like Nigeria is in a very bad shape!

not sure how long you've been in the state, this guy bushed has totally messed this country up.

Again, a subjective opinion with no factual basis.

Even a freaking miss USA was booed just because of USA policies.

You are in the same boat with those who booed her! Prejudiced with no concrete evidence to back it up.

ill be back to give you more example later.

I hope those examplew will be backed up with facts.

@mamajama,

Bush will be forever remember for going to war in IRAQ,

That may be true. He will also be remembered for toppling Saddam Hussein, getting rid of the Taleban, Getting Libya and North Korea to drop their nuclear programme, the most generous American President to Africa etc,

corruption in the justice department.

Since when did the Executive arm of Government become responsible for the corruption or otherwise of the Judiciary?

CIA leak secret.

I may have missed it, but which grand jury indicted Bush or Cheney?

Mass unemployment.

You have no clue what you are talking about.  I-man already provided you with answers so I will not belabor this issue.

out soursing of jobs

The only reason why this is happening is because of the high standard of living of Americans.  The entire world is having to deal with this and not the U.S. alone.

and giving big corporation tax break.

This is the policy of the Republican party and didn't start with Bush.  Your hidden agenda is very obvious considering the fact that personal income tax is also at its lowest in a long time.  Bush actually lowered the [ersonal income tax when he came in and it is the Democrats that are the obstacles to making the tax breaks permanent.

Nothing good is synonymous with this administration, even gas prices are at a record high

The first statement is just your subjective opinion. As for the later case, please tell me which country around the world is not feeling this gas pinch!

@Seun,

Can you please list the many things that George Bush is 'trying to do' in the US? that is way different than what other presidents did?

@Tornadoz,

@davidylan
If its not too much to ask, can you give me some reasons why you support G Bush?

This is exactly what we have been saying.  It is all about personalities to you and not about ideas, policies and actions.

@Davidylan,

Quote from: deeni on May 28, 2007, 06:35 PM
AND WHERE WERE THE JEWS ALL THESE THOUSSANDS OF YEARS ! Why did the Americans have to create it in the again in 1948?

first of all, you didnt even bother to refute ANY of the questions i raised in my earlier post rather choosing to hide under the banner of another bogus question.

Yes dear, the Jews were dispersed from their nation after AD 70 just as had been recorded in the bible thousands of years ago.

The lies you have been fed will prevent you from removing the blinkered glasses tinted with islamic anti-semitism! The Americans did NOT create Isreal in 1948. It had already existed and had a few jews  and arabs who had remained on the land. After world war I, the Ottoman empire collapsed and handed over control of Palaestina to British control in 1917. In 1922, the Balfour declaration gave 75% of Palaestina to King Abdullah to form transjordan as the arab part of palestine! It is this transjordan that is the kingdom of Jordan that you see on your map today.

Now lest i forget, Jordan is NOT an arab name indicating that Jordan in itself is an illegal nation occupying what used to be Jewish lands more than 2000 years ago!

The remaining part of british controlled palaestine was to be given to Isreal so they could form a new nation.

One of the greatest lies that you have also perpetuated is that America formed Isreal in 1948:

1. It was the British and NOT the americans who controlled palaestine up until 1948!

2. Isreal has been in existence for more than 4000 years!

3. Where was the nation of palaestine before 1948? Hanging in the moon?

Thanks for educating the guy.  It is clear how ignorant he is about the issues he is dabbling with.

@somze,

HOLOCAUST never happened. The twin towers are still standing, train bombing in UK was imaginary and ISLAM DOES NOT IN ANYWAY SUPPORT OR ADVOCATE TERRORISM. ISLAM IS A PEACEFUL PEACEFUL RELIGION.

Osama who? Never heard of him.

You no go kill person. I don laugh wound myself for here! Yours is undoubtedly the joke and sarcasm of the month! No contest! Excuse me while I keep laughing!

@topic,

Is this supposed to be a speech?

@smile4kenn,

Can you please tell us what you gleaned from that report as I see absolutely nothing in it!!

@Tornadoz,

Why should we comment when it is obvious that this is just another disguise for character assasination and undue smear campaign on others with contrary point of view?!

@topic,

I believe in destiny!

I believe a man is destined to reap what he is in the habit of sowing!

I believe whatsoever a man believes in his heart and speaks out is destined to come to pass.

I believe the path of the righteous is like the first glimps of dawn, and it is destined to shine brighter and brighter until the full light of day!

I believe a man of faith is a seed of faith, and he is destined to grow wherever he finds himself!

I believe a man's destiny (or destination) can be predicted from the path he is walking on.

I believe a man can change his destiny by changing his belief, action and faith!

I believe your destiny is more in your hands than any other's!!!

@thesilent1,

are you guys going to a different place at the ressurection?

That's the best rhetorical question I've read on nairaland - EVER!!! Can't stop laughing!

@donnie,

@TayoD, Look carefully who your allies are on this thread. If they appear to you to be Godly. Look carefully. Jesus said, the sheep hear the voice of the shepherd and follow. Drop the assumptions and just listen to Him.

Start by asking your Pastor if His Ally - T.B. Joushua, is of God. When you eventually get in touch with your Oyahaks (if ever), please give us the answer!!!

@topic,

While trying to disguise their true intentions about this thread with the introductory statement: "If you have nothing reasonable to contribute please, just read and move on, no need polluting this thread with personal attacks. Issues please.", the coalition of left-wing smear campaigners could not even go beyond the 4th and 5th posts to show their true colours with the statements: "I don't think he has a mind of his own". and Didn't you know I-man,  is one of the most condescending  individual  at Nairaland.

If this is how you guys discuss issues, then it explains how no one sees any points in all your posts. This is how you kill otherwise interesting threads and turn around accusing others of personal attacks.

@Jen33,

2. Heaven is supposed to be a perfect place. It is of course, the place you strive for and name “salvation”. Yet, it experienced a war (Revelation 12:7). How can there be a war in a perfect place and if it happened before why couldn’t it happen again? Why would I want to go to a place in which war can occur? That’s exactly what I’m trying to escape, aren’t you?

The only reason why there was war in heaven is because a creature exercised his God-given will contrary to God's. While I can't explain why that happened, I can at least say for sure that God has promised it will never happen again. I can rest assure on that promise not only because God said so, but because I know He has a faculty called fore-knowledge (which we don't have), and He must have spoken based on that too.

@topic and questioner,

1.  According to your Bible I am to believe that human kind is sinful and suffering from Adam and Eve eating the fruit of knowledge.  Why are we being punished for the original sin?  After all, they ate the forbidden fruit, we didn’t.  Reason would lead one to say it’s their problem, not ours.  Even the bible contradicts itself by claiming in Deuteronomy 24:16, “children shall not be punished for the sins of their fathers.”

The Bible does not teach that we are being punished for Adam's sin. Rather the Bible teaches that through Adam, sin entered the world - Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men,   The Bible is very clear that what a man is in the habit of sowing, he is in the habit of reaping. You can blame God for anything you can think of, but you are the one responsible for your faith or otherwise in the abundant grace He has provided in Christ Jesus (can't blame Adam for that):  Romans 5:16-17 For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification.  For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)