₦airaland Forum

Afam,

Enough of your games. You may reproduce any lies you believe I have stated here so I can either accept them and correct them or you expose yourself as the born liar.
Don't even ask me to reproduce yours because it will only be too embarassing for you.

Is it that you forget the things you write so soon or you are just unrepentant even when your errors are pointed out.

I already pointed out the fact that you calim I am ready to support murderers when in fact I stated that anyone who advocates such an armed conflict should distance himself from christianity. What have you done since then but side-step the issues raised.  Perhaps you should apologise for such a lie after which we will return to your acusation that I said anything about the issue of Mugabe and the lands seized.

All these is just another opportunity to derail this thread.  The simple question I have asked you since you raised the imortant factor of land in the Isreali-Arab conflict is this: provide us with scientific and historical proof that the land of Isreal belongs to the Palestines and their fore-fathers

@Afam,

I do not have any hatred towards anyone and I am sure you cannot say the same about the arabs or muslims.

I wonder if I can start to believe you now after the several lies you've peddled on this forum alone. I have moslims in my family and I am in the process of helping a muslim guy get a job in my company. I work with Arabs and I have them as neighbours.  I wish them absolutely no arm. I wish we can say the same for the Arabs and muslims toward the Jews.

On your responses, I like them because you have again displayed the hypocrisy and bias I am accusing you of.

Again you make conclusions based on your blindness and ignorance.  Where are your points?  Where are the proofs we ask for?  

Your comment on Mugabe and land ownership shows you really don't have any clue as regards the problems there, maybe you have chosen to believe everything the western media is feeding you.

Again you side-step issues.  Your art of lying is only surpassed by your ability to dodge issues.  The recent migrants to the land of Isreal now call themselves palestines and they claim ownership of that land. Can you tell me what the white settlers in Zimbabwe are calling themselves? And have I ever claimed the land is theirs or otherwise.  Please keep to the topic here as your dancing in several directions is only a ploy to deflect your lack of knowledge and proof of the main issue of this thread.

@Afam,

I am glad you are the same one that liken yourself to the terrorist.  My reference to the Bible is because you started by refering to yourself as a practicing Christian.  I suppose your being a 'practicing' Christain means you must take the Bible seriously and I indeed refered you to scriptures that I hope you will 'practice'.

1. You are no different from the so called terrorist who blow people away based on his/her understanding of the quran because you are ready to support the same thing as long as Christians are the perpetrators.

How many times have I so much as raised my hands or voice to demand the death of anybody?  You seem very much self-deluded.  I have mentioned in this same forum that anyone who advocates violence must necessarily distance himself from Christ, yet you say I will support terorism. You seem to have resorted to lies once again.

2. Any part of the scriptures you quote will only make sense to a christian and as such you cannot expect it to be binding on the non christain who does not give a damn about christianity or the bible just as I am sure you do not agree with the quran.

I sure agree with your statement here.  That is why I said we should perhaps resort to history laid bare through archeology by you are yet to provide any proof to substantiate your flimsy position.

3. Assuming your analysis makes sense why would Sharon give back part of the lands that were seized and promised to give more before he became very ill considering the fact that he fought in all the wars Israel ever fought but the last?

Have you ever heard of political pressure? Isreal has always negotiated and have given back some of the land which rightfully belong to them so there could be peace which you claim they are not pursuing.

4. The hypocrisy plays out when people like you criticize Mugabe for returning lands to the original owners in Zimbabwe without any need for archeologists to even find anything.

I assume you are not refering to me specifically by sing the phrase "people like me".  In any case, you don't seem to know how to compare apples with apples.  Is the land of Zimbabwe being claimed by people of different ethnicity?

5. You seem to always justify or support the wrong positions from Bush to Okotie. Why don't you ask yourself why people like us are almost always 100% correct in positions we take? It is because we base our conclusions on facts, truth, objectivity, equity and fair play not bias, hypocrisy, sentiments and lies

What positions on the individuals you mentioned have you been proven wrong against my stand? Your lies are not funny any longer you know.  Since you are into facts and figures, please provide us with the facts and figures regarding the ownership of the land of Isreal.  I have provided you with a recent one with respect to Herodium. I also refered to the only historical leader of the people we call Palestines today.  Please prove me wrong with facts and not this cheap attempt to wip up setiments powered by an ignorant hatred for a people who are rgithfully in their land.

@topic,

So are the definitions above acceptable to all?  If not, I'd like us to present one that is acceptable to all so we can all have a comon reference.  I hate to waste my time discussing an issue with the other parties without a common reference.

So are the definitions acceptable?

@Tornadoz,

It's funny how you summarily dismiss the evidence provided by archeology and you choose to go by way of selective amnesia in arriving at your conclusions.

I am sure the world of archeology will be alarmed by the conspiracy theory you have stated with regard to the motive of those who make these finds. It is so depressing to find an intelligent person like you condemning the life work of professionals who go about their jobs without an agenda other than to discover and present history to us the way it has been preserved.

In any case, the Palestines don't have to roam through Jerusalem to make any discovery that will tie them to the land.  Let them start off with where they live right now.  I can promise you that what they find on that land will still point to no other people but the Jews.  Across the wall built by Isreal on the west bank is the grave of Joshua - remember him?.  While the UN keeps telling us that the land is occupied by the Jews, the grave of Jews who live in the land long ago are still all over the place.

You know, one major reason behind this conflict is just the faith of these Arabs.  These folks cannot be separated from their faith and it is their faith that is making them do what they do. Do you realise that the Article 7 of Hamas provided by Davidylan is lifted directly from a hadith quoting Mohammed?  Here is what it says again: 'The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees,  and  the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him.'

It is obvious that they are just using the issue of land as an excuse to carryout this religious obligation.

To the one who claims he is a practicing Christian, may I remind you of the prophecy of the God of the Bible who said this:  Jeremiah 16:14 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be said, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; 15 But, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers.

Which land is been spoken of here if I may ask? Do you think that the God who made this prophecy wasn't aware that the Isrealites will be taken away on exile from that land and He will hae to bring them back?

@topic,

Can someone please define who or what a terrorist is before we begin this discussion.  Lets include the definition of the Antichrist, as the subject of this discussion (Bush) has been labeled as one.  Having the same point of reference will help streamline our thoughts.

In my understanding, a Terrorist is one who indiscrimantely and intentionally targets a civilian population with the sole aim of spreading and instilling fear in the heart of the people.  Such individuals are usually motivated by political, spiritual or economic reasons.

The definition of the Antichrist is very clear from the Bible:  1 John 2:2 Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist--he denies the Father and the Son.   1 John 4:3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

Does anyone have a better definition than these?  If you do, please share it. I'm sure we can all agree on definitions before we start to make conclusions.

@kAG,

; dogmatism and extreme closemindedness should be left at the altar of religion.

Your statement betrays your shallow knowledge of what our faith (particular reference to Christianity) is all about.

Also, the quantum world has shown that something can come from nothing.

I seriously doubt that. Was it shown by experiment or by mathematical approximations? Please refer us to such discovery.

@nferyn,

Lol, your nitpicking is really off base and irrelevant to the point I tried to make. My unjustified omission of "accurate to" the 10th percentile really invalidates my argument doesn't it?

Arent you Atheists guilty of what you are acusing me of? You want everything explained and justifiable to the senses before it is accepted as truth.  The problem is that you are not able to do that to explain away a reality called God.

It is not about the omission but the fact that you cannot talk about percentiles at all unless you have several data to compare - your analogy doesn't meet that criteria.

Oh what I have I done to be continuously confronted with the ironically challenged?

That seems to be the biggest stumbling block in front of the Atheist. He cannot deal with the irony that life presents. He cannot fathom a God that exists and yet cannot be seen.  He cannot fathom a loving God that still allows evil to prevail.

If I go by that standard, I guess I will not believe in a creator behind the computer because of its many failures.  Also, how can I explain the fact that 3 weeks ago, I de-winterised by sprinkler system and fertilized my lawn so it could grow, yet I am planning on cutting down that same lawn by next weekend.  Why should I create a condition for unhindered growth yet be the one cutting the same growing lawn? That's the irony of life and it sespecially stares us in the face when the issue is God.

@nferyn,

Of course it didn't make sense. The whole point was to use a false analogy to make a point that doesn't follow from it's premisses. Seems you can't see an imitation when it stares you in the face.

It's not about using false analogy, rather it is about your analogy not making sense. A false analogy is different from a senseless analogy. You only talk about percentiles when you have so many subjects to a particular action. In your case, you talked only about the pond in your backyard. Where are the other subjects. You are proving too smart even for yourself.

@Seun,

"We don't know yet" is an acceptable answer in science.  We don't have to claim to know everything.

Just as "we were wrong" is an acceptable phrase in science.  

It is funny how science admits it's finite knowledge and yet doesn't give room to the possibility that there is indeed a God somewhere.

@nferyn,

Well you're an atheist. Please explain to me the precise impact of the gravitational pull of the moon on the pond in my back yard up to the 10th percentile. You can't ? How shallow of you. You can't be a real atheist.  Relevance?

What you are saying makes no sense.  Did you use the word 'percentile' in error?  In any case, you have not made any pint here.

I'll get back to your butchering of science later this evening.

I can't wait!!

@kAG,

They didn't have names, but I prefer to call them Eros and Gaia.

So how did Eros and Gaia come into being?

Eventually, yes.

I knew someone will fall for this. So how did the inanimate come into being?

Baryogenesis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baryogenesis Physics sucks anyway.

Again how do you explain Baryogenesis? Baryogenesis can only occur when you have matter (particles). How did the particles come to be? How was that matter created in the first place?

@Seun,

That's not true.  I'm an atheist, and I exist because my mother and my father decided to tango in bed.

How shallow!  So who are the parents of the first life-form on earth? Was it inanimate tango-ing with inanimate to create animate? Or putting it in context of the law of conservation of mass, how could matter be created without a prior matter? Kindly explain without a violation of that law!

@nferyn,

I'm glad you were not offended by my earlier statement as it wasn't meant to be one!

1: You see a creation. I see no such thing. What I see is wonderfully complex natural world that can easily be explained through natural processes. We no longer live in Paley's time where there is no naturalistic explanation for biological complexity.

I never knew who Parley was until you mentioned him and I had to search the internet for some details.  In any case, while you base your faith on philosophy, I really couldn't care less about it.  Common sense tells me that while there is a creation, there is a creator somewhere.  While you consider yourself a product of biology, I consider you a product of creators - your parents.  

The first law of thermodynamics is very much related to the law of conservation of mass which states that: "matter can neither be created nor destroyed."  So how do you explain the big bang theory without a violation of this law? How can something come out of nothing?  How can matter come out of non-matter?

2. conclusion: madness, based on premisse 1, logically sound, but factually untenable

In other words, you agree that it takes some degree of mental instability to see a creation and insist there is no creator.

3. you personally see no method by which the appearance of design in the natural world can come into being. that is an argument from personal incredulity, one of the many logical phalacies.

It is much more than design. It involves existence in itself which is my argument in stating the law of conservation of mass.  With respect to design, can you tell me the probability that a computer will be assembled and made to work the way it does if the components are laid side by side for ages upon ages?

@stimulus,

Awww, guys. I think that was just going overboard!

I didn't mean it to be offensive or trying to insult nferyn.  It's just what I consider the truth.  For instance, won't you consider someone fit for a mental asylum who sees and uses a computer but claims the computer came into existence by a big bang theory?  The fact that the different pieces of the computer are working together in harmony suggests an intelligence behind it.

Now and again, I do things that gets my computer to hang up and I have to cold-boot it.  Does the imperfection suggests that their is no Creator?  I think not.  perhaps, I wouldn't have such problem if I consult with the manufacturer's manual.

@topic,

The funny thing about these Christians of the stock of Oyhakilome is that they never take up issues when the name of Jesus is put into disrepute.  However, you talk about their Pastor and the gates of hell will be let loose on you.

They tell you stories such as "touch not my annointed, ", yet when He who received the annointing without measure is being crucified, they just don't stand up to be counted.  If that isn't hero-worship, I know not what is.

@nferyn,

Why do you assume that something is wrong with me?

Because it takes some degree of madness to see a creation and insists there is no Creator.

@Afam,

Learn to speak for yourself not others. That you are influenced by anything doesn't mean anyone else is.

Okay sir. Next time I will keep in mind that you are not subject to any outside influence. Not any from parents, siblings, church, mosque, school, friends and foes alike.  But I must confess, you are the only person I know who never learnt anything from anybody.  Until now, I used to think that knowledge is built on past knowledge.  I'll explain. Much of the science and engineering today is based off of laws discovered by others.  Even if we have new technology, we know it is influencd by those laws that were discovered and articulated by the past generation.  I guess you must be an exception to that rule!!

It seems religous fanatism and fundamentalism is on the rise (especially with the christains) without them realising it.  We may be worse than those we criticize everyday.

I'm glad you used the qualifier "We".  It is good to know those of you who call yourselves Christians and are worse than the Islamo-fascists who run planes into buildings with the intention to kill as many civilians as possible.  I am sure you cannot begin to associate such action and fudamentalism to Christ.  Perhaps you should find other name to call yourself other than Christian.

While you are busy worried about those whose fundamentalism is rising, you will do better to address those whose religious fanatism has reached its apochy and is manifested in acts of terrorism we see worldwide.

If peace can be achieved when the issue of land occupation is trashed out and up till today Israel is pushing that major issue into oblivion then it makes sense to agree with the writer that Israel does not want peace.

Who is occupying whose land? It is interesting that the grave of Herod was discovered this week in Jerusalem.  Guess what Herod was called during his time - The king of the Jews.  I wish we could find relics and proof that the land belong to the Palestines as far back as the time of Herod.  Maybe you can go a few centuries earlier or later than that to try to prove the impossible.  Every archeoalogical discovery in that land points to only one people - the Jews.  How can a people's heritage, lineage, history and culture be found in a piece of land and yet we get the effontery to say the land belong to someone else?  The greatest hero we know in the histroy of the palestines is a man called Arafat and like the rest of the Palestines, he is a recent migrant to that land. If you can prove otherwise, I will be so grateful for such enlightenement.

The good thing about truth is that no matter how long it takes it will come out in full force and stare everyone in the face.

Yeah.  Like the truth called Herodium that just surfaced this week.  It was buried for long but is now out in full force staring at you in the face!

@topic,

Although it's not  for sure if the initiatives are completely solid and believable, or if they are based on trickery,

Until this concern by the author is assuaged, I see no reason why Isreal should let their guards down to the people who will wipe them out without a second thought if presented with the opportunity!!

The countries who are calling for these initiatives do not have diplomatic relations with Isreal and the parties to be negotiated with call for the destruction of anything Isreal in their charter and yet we are saying Isreal should sit at a round table with them!  How preposterous.  Very soon, we will begin to blame the U.S. for not heeding Osama Bin Ladin's call for a round table discussion!!

@Afam,

You fool yourself when you say you are a free thinker.  No one is.  We are all influenced by people, by books, teachers, the society etc.  To be free of other's influence is to be a dead man.

@topic,

Jesus said: "salvation is of the Jews." Until you can prove that Mohammed is a Jew, I find no basis to even begin to think that Islam, a product of the Arabs, will provide anything close to salvation.

@topic,

I am filled with disgust at the people who claim Ya'radua cannot and dare not try to implement Sharia in the country. What exactly are you saying? You are content with Sharia in other parts of the nation as long as it does not affect you directly. What about your fellow Nigeirians who do not subscribe to that law and are forced to live under it? Is the desire of the minority irrelevant in our country?

How can I say I live in a free country and yet unable to move freely in some parts? Is that your definition of freedom? I witnessed religious discrimination at the National Assembly despite the fact that Sharia isn't implemented there, I wonder what others are experiencing who live in such Sharia States.

@babyosisi,

The Bible said the anti Christ would deceive many,meaning he'll have some degree of intelligence.
If this is the antiChrist,no one will be deceived.

You are becoming very naughty. What a statement! I'm laughing my hearts out.

@nazzyon,

Note: Every rule of law is always for the betterment of an association, group, community, town , country, Nation, world.

What a load of crap. Isn't Nigeria guided by law already? Don't we have a rule of law and a constitution? Why should we submit ourselves to a religious law when we call ourselves a secular country?

There is nothing faulty with the laws we have already, so keep your sharia within your home and not make it a state requirment.

@flakes,

it`s good to hear someone tell it like it is!

Thanks for that piece. Unfortunately, it appears some people prefer the praise of fools to the constructive and objective criticsm of the wise.

@pilgrim_1,

@topic,

I'm sort of amused at the disingenousness of this topic. Does the original poster pretend that he doesn't actually know which of the persons with the name 'Jesus' was referred to as the CHRIST?

When a chap has a mindset pre-programmed against JESUS CHRIST and what He represents, it is no wonder that we read amusing topics like this.

That is the simple reason why I asked him the question: which one of these characters is the Jesus mentioned and revered in therir Qu'ran.

@babasin,

Nigeria seems to have short memory

It is unfair to put the blame squarely on Nigerians. You have assumed here that the wishes of the Nigerian 99% minority (yes minority) was expressed and considered at the last election.

The results of the last election expressed the wish of the 1% majority - PDP.

@Leadmyster,

I'm not surprised you called me a pussy. What more can I expect from someone who thinks with his genitals and not his God-given brain.

Despite personal stories by those who witnessed these voting rape, you opened your filthy gutters to say: "Forced to vote, Thats just not true." Why don't you tell that to the scores of people who died during the course of the election!!

The problem is the short-sightedness of our people. Because you witnessed a free and fair election in your 'rich' neighbourhood, you assume that the poor people who live in Ajegunle or places like that enjoy the same luxury that you do. Once your needs are met, you forget those of others. How convenient.

I guess you do not believe the stories about the tanker that was going to be rammed into INEC building as well, neither do you believe the reports of the European observers who were witnesses. Results in the 2003 election that showed more votes for PDP in Ogun State than the registered voters must have been cooked up as well.

Keep putting your head in the sand. You are very much exposing your rear for a well-deserved kicking in the near future!!

@Leadmyster,

Nice one Tayod,
I may be naive or stupid, but 200 hefty men would not make me change my vote in Lagos
it will never happen, not in my own yard.
PS: I don't like you

Now it's confirmed. You are unrevocably stupid!

@Leadmyster,

Could you please expantiate on how they forced you to vote, did you not leave your house by yourself?

How were you picked out to be forced to vote because this never happened even in military days

You are either naive or stupid. You go to a polling booth and 7 huge men surround you watching what you will do in what is meant to be a secret ballot. Tell, me, is that a vote basd on free will or coercion?

deejay1,

am not saying this can't happen but DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE IN WHAT YOU LISTEN TO ON BBC NEWS? I don't anyway

I'm almost certain this story is true.  I called naija yesterday and was told by my mom that she didn't bother to vote because everyone was turned back by thugs during the governorship election.  the thugs told them they have voted on their behalf and won't be needed to do anything.

It is all so annoying.

If Yar'adua sas any inherent sense of integrity, he would refuse to be sworn in based on the electoral rape we witnessed on Saturday.