₦airaland Forum

Michael547:
I don't know why I can't post pictures anymore. But the translations are on this thread.
Kindly explain Hebrews 8:16. Why is the new covenant a better one than the old covenant since Christ has always been a mediator between man and God.

You question here is not related to this topic and I will show you why.
If I ask you, since the new covenant is better, then why was there a Savior in the old testament, please answer
Isaiah 43:11
11 I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.

Michael547:
Oga you are not teachable....I have shown you nlt version and amplified version of the bible that nail your ideas as false and you are still shouting that everyone else is fake except you.

Oga you contradict both Paul and Jesus Christ and you accuse me of not being teachable because I choose to believe Paul and Jesus Christ and not you?
Sorry, I don't know how to trade me believe in Christ for a stranger on Nairaland.
Please read the words of Paul
1 Timothy 2:5
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Now the words of Christ
John 14:6

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Please forgive me if I choose to believe Jesus Christ over you, I don't know you that well.

Michael547:
At the bolded, I have given you four translations that shows that it was the law that was ordained or appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. But you are twisting it agin and saying that it was the promise and not the law that was appointed.
Oga below is your King James version. Read it again.

Yes, 4 false translations. I have given you only one translation.
How do I know your translations are all wrong? Because the contradict the scriptures.
Please read this verse in your four translations and let's see what they say
1 Timothy 2:5
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Pls post your 4 translations of this verse here

[quote author=Michael547 post=131838396]Moses was not a mediator to Abraham and the rest of faithful men before him as explained in Galatians 3:16.
Moses was the mediator to the law covenant or old covenant that was attached to the nation of isreal.
We are going off topic. Let's go back to the very words of Christ, he said, no man can come to the Father but by me
Should we believe you or Christ.
Also, if Abraham had the ability to come to God without Christ. Jacob saw God without Christ as you believe then are you not making Christ a liar. Or are these people aliens

Moses acted as a mediator of the law covenant or old Covenant. It was through the hands of Moses that the law got to the isrealites as stated in Deuteronomy 5:5.
If this is your definition of a mediator then I agree Moses was their mediator. But the word of Christ remains, no man can come to God without him. Yes Moses was able to take God's words to them but only Christ could bring them to God. Every man that walked with God in the old testament came to him through Christ.



I think i would have to start posting commentaries on Galatians 3:19 for you to know that you are wrong in saying that Jesus is the mediator in Galatians 3:19.
Commentaries written by who, fake pastors or true men of God?
It's clear that you depend on commentaries more than the very words of Christ. He said no one can access the Father without him and you are looking for commentaries that day otherwise. Haba

Michael547:
Oga kindly state the name of your translation for transparency.

At the bolded is twisting Paul's words. Paul's words in that verse is laying emphasis on the law that was given. Not on the promise of a seed to come.

Below are other translations.

You accuse me of twisting what was so clearly written? Let me quote it again,
Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
It clearly says, till the seed (Christ) should come of whom the promise was made. The promise was Ordained by angels in the hand of the mediator (Christ) not Moses.
Still in Galatians 3.
This is what Paul wrote about Abraham's covenant or promise.
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Faith in Jesus Christ is the foundation of Abraham's promise from God.

Let me ask again, was Moses also the mediator of Abraham, Jacob, Abel Enoch and others that came before him or do we have a third mediator?

[quote author=Michael547 post=131838045]Please state the name of your translation for transparency.
Explain Hebrews 8:6.....why is the covenant that Jesus is the mediator of better than the old one? Who was the mediator of the old one?
I am using kjv


You are contradicting yourself in the bold.....Paul was clearly referring to the old covenant in Galatians 3:19. So why are you claiming that the old testament did not need a special mediator. So on what's covenant was Pau referring to a mediator on that verse?
No he was not referring to the old testament.
He was referring to the seed to whom the promise was made (Christ)
Now if you claim Moses was the mediator of the old testament, was it also Moses that mediated for Abraham, Jacob, Abel, Enoch and others that came before him or do you have a third mediator?

Moses did not claim to mediate for the sins of isreal. Moses himself claimed to be a mediator who stood in-between God and the isrealites in Deuteronomy 5:5
Yes prophets stand between men and God but not as mediators. Moses did not have the power to reconcile man with God. Please check the meaning of a mediator.

Michael547:
Oga how am I wrong? Who is the seed in that verse and who is the mediator in that verse? Kindly explain.
Below also is another version of the bible.

Good question now let me explain the bible to you.

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one
Verse 16 makes it clear that Christ was the center of God's covenant with Abraham.
Verse 17 Abraham's covenant was confirmed in Christ.
Verse 18, Abraham did not live by the law but by his covenant/ promise in Christ.
Verse 19 says the law was there till the seed of whom the promise was made. The promise was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Do you get it now? It has nothing to do with Moses

MaxInDHouse:
Good!
So face your students and count me out!

Is fear

[quote author=Michael547 post=131837266]Show me evidence that men of old had to have faith in Jesus to communicate with the Father. I repeat that Jesus words in John 14:6 takes effect under the new covenant.
I have already given you evidence. What evidence is more than the words of Jesus Christ.
He already told you that no man can come to the father but by him.
It seems you don't know the meaning of evidence.
Now let me explain with an example. If I testify that no man can operate my laptop without me given him the password, and you see someone using my laptop, what does that mean to you?
Now for more evidence.
Gal 3
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Heb 11.13
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Jesus coming was to teach people more about his Father and to start a new religion on how to please his father and also to save mankind from sin and death caused from Adamic sin by willingly sacrificing his life.

😂😂You are funny. Paul clearly stated that Moses was the mediator in the old covenant in Galatians 3:19. Hebrews 9:15 says that Jesus is the mediator of the new covenant. Can you kindly tell us where Paul said that Jesus was the mediator of the old covenant?


So I have showed you that your translation is false.
Now Paul did not need to say Jesus is the mediator of the old testament since he already said.
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
The old testament doesn't need a special mediator and it's only your wrong translation that states that Moses was the mediator.
I think your problem is that you don't know the meaning of a mediator.
Let's start from that.
A mediator is
a person who attempts to make people involved in a conflict come to an agreement; a go-between.
Oxford dictionary says, a person or an organization that tries to help reach an agreement or settlement to act as (mediator in the negotiations.
Moses did not have the power to mediate for the sins of David or Isaiah or Jeremiah or anyone in the old testament.

Michael547:
😂😂😂....please post your own translation here. Don't just shout about translation.
Are you saying that Paul meant that God gave the law to Jesus through the angels? So how did the law get to the isrealites? Was it Jesus that was communicating to God and the isrealites?

Here is my translation sir. In fact, I am posting more verses to give you insight
For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one
Do you see how wrong you are now?

Michael547:
The bible clearly Shows that Almighty God revealed himself to his servants of old like Noah and Abraham and Moses directly and sometimes through angels. God made Moses the mediator Between himself and the chosen nation of isreal in the old covenant in the religion of Judaism. God sent his only begotten Son Jesus to put an end to the old covenant and establish a new one in which he is the mediator. In the New covenant, you cannot access the father without the son. The Son is the head of the church and those who are followers of Jesus are called Christians. Faithful servants of old were not required to have faith in Jesus to Worship God.

So according to you doctrine, man has lost the privilege of accessing the Father directly. Ok .
There are many holes in your doctrine. First, your doctrine make Christ a liar.
Secondly your doctrine shows that the coming of Christ was unnecessary. If men of old did not need him to access God, then his coming is only ceremonious as we also could have continued to access God without him.
Lastly, according to your doctrine, we have at least 2 mediators hence Paul lied when he wrote,
1 Timothy 2:5
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
So clearly my brother, your doctrine is not based on the bible but on guesswork and it doesn't add up.

Michael547:
Most translations in Galatians 3:19 use the word 'mediator' to refer to Moses in that verse. Please who was Paul referring to as the mediator in that verse through whom the law was given?

Sir again you are wrong.. There are over 3000 bible translations and I am sure you did not check to see how most translated that verse so clearly, you are being dishonest here.
But even if most did, I am not shy to stick with the minority when correct. In Galatians 3, the only mediator Paul was referring to is Jesus Christ.
Now I have answered your question, can you please answer mine?

MaxInDHouse:
That's the problem because you only teach or correct someone who BELIEVES he needs to learn or get correction from you.
So in my case it's a pity that i don't need you!

As I said, you are not the only one on the thread.

MaxInDHouse:
Honest hearted and sincere individuals BEG or PAY for knowledge they don't insult the person who will pass it to them since i'm not interested in whatever you believe but you are the one desperate to know mine you will humble yourself to get it not abusively.

So tender an apology and i will TEACH you but if you feel you're OK with what you know then there's no need for this!

So you know that it is wrong to insult yet it's all you do. You hypocrite.
I really don't care about your beliefs my boy. I am only here to teach and correct you
And also to post the truth for others following the thread.
You are not so important.
We have both expressed our beliefs now let others following the thread choose.
My only job here is to correct your errors.
Whenever I see you teaching a false doctrine, I will come there and correct you. You may choose to learn but even if you don't others will and my work is done.
At least, I know you will be busy asking your leaders if they have any answers to my questions but we both know they don't. That way, others can point out your falsehoods.

LordBiden:
But sorry a toilet cleaner wont be able to afford a home.

Even if he takes a mortgage it will take him like 35yrs.

So this is the one advantage the bank manager has?

MaxInDHouse:
Desperately BEGGING for response from JWs yet abusive, well it's OK!

Lool
We both know who the abusive one is. Even the JW members know you are rude and abusive. Remember the last time, a JW member said you were an imposter?
You have a very bad reputation here on Nairaland for not being mannered so please do use the abusive excuse, you have lost that right.
Just remember to do some research next time before starting a thread because it may not go your way.
FYI,
I am still waiting for you to tell me if the men of old were aliens who could access God without Christ and when did humans lose that ability.

helinues:
Christianity, Atheism, Islam, Buddhism as long na religion, all na scam.

We were given free gifted senses for a reason, why waiting for one old fairy tale book before doing the right thing

Humans always needed a book to do the right thing. It could be the bible or the constitution.
You did not wake up to automatically know right from wrong. It had to be taught to you and what you felt was right was dependent on who taught you.
Again, religion goes beyond right and wrong. It's also about eternity, a life after this and how to prepare for it.

MaxInDHouse:
OK!

The JW puts you in position where you become dumb by the day. I love you last answer.
Please don't start another thread without proper research if you don't want it to go the way this one went.

MaxInDHouse:
I don't have the time for time wasters like you if you want to LEARN you must humble yourself or stick to what you want to believe.

Abraham and David can't be Christians since they never met or heard about Christianity from the teacher who came to teach Christianity or from those he sent out to TEACH others about Christianity.

If you're proudly and stubbornly arguing blindly over that there's no need wasting my precious time with you!

So according to JW doctrine, Abraham and David did not need Christ to access God. They must be super humans. The men of the old testament must really aliens.
My guy, you people need to flog your leaders. Not only are the false, they are dumb. How can they expect you guys to defend nonsense. Una suppose dey flog them on a daily

Michael547:
Oga so who was the mediator in Galatians 3:19 through who the law was given to the people of isreal in Connection to John 1:17?

Hi bro, I know you have moved on but I just felt I should ask you this.
So your doctrine is that before the coming of Jesus Christ, men had the power to come to the Father directly right, then Jesus came and we lost that ability hence he said no can come to the Father but by me?
What do you think men like Abel,Moses, Abraham and the rest had that we don't have? What did we do to lose the power to access God without the need of Christ?

achorladey:
His mode of operation when he knows the discussion don't dance to his tune. You will see him asking me to go and create a thread on nairaland

He will readily do that to me too

MaxInDHouse started this thread but clearly this is not what he expected.
If only he had done a little study before starting the thread, I bet he would never have started it in the first place.

MaxInDHouse:
I know you can't sleep without thinking about my name but it's OK my guy that's what you'll have to deal with when you stick to falsehood begging for agreement with people holding firm to the truth!

Funny guy. Yes oh I need to call your name 10x before I sleep . But then, can you tell us the last person that had the power to access the Father without Jesus Christ? Was it John the Baptist?

achorladey:
🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂

He already said he trust his GODS of men housed in USA 100% completely and with the same mouth counter what he said. Whenever he sees what he calls their humble Bible knowledge rejected. It does not sit well with him. You see him going to different thread to reference to console his lying and manipulated brains.

MaxInDHouse spend hours doing a research to find all my old posts on Nairaland. It was so funny when I saw it yesterday. If only he spends such quality time studying his bible, he would not be where is presently is.

MaxInDHouse:
It simply means Holy Spirit can't be a person if Jesus said "only the father" after excluding the Son therefore the concept of Trinity is false, there can't be three persons in one yet Jesus said he himself who is the Son doesn't know something and goes further to say "only the father knows"

So had it been your friend agreed that the Holy Spirit is not a person it would make sense that IT could know but if it's a person Jesus wouldn't have used the phrase "only the father" after all there supposed to be three in One person.

Emusan already knew he has lost it but as usual he will continue arguing blindly waiting for you to turn it into exchange of insults to trash the whole issue in the mud.

According to JW doctrine, man had the capacity to come unto the Father directly but sometime between 6 BC and 4 BC he lost that ability and since then no man could come to the Father without Christ.
The false teachings of men.

achorladey:
Pains of that thread reach here



Liars and manipulators like Achorladey = Emusan on your madness and insanities peddling brains which originate your being a worst fool



Had your brains think deeply about the response you will see this....



No one knows go soon get head. I know your madness and insanities peddling brains don't commend your colleagues believing your lies as worst fools



tctrills the pains don reach here ooooi



The person that tells us prophecy is not knowledge, Christian know Jesus partially does not mean the likes of the Israelites who know Jesus partially does not mean they believe Jesus

Achorladey = Emusan

Courz = Oteneaaron

You can keep peddling........



It surely fit your madness and insanities peddling brains.

When a man depends on false prophets he will always get himself confused. That is the problem with our Jw friend. I keep asking MaxInDHouse and his gang, should we believe you or do we believe the bible. When Jesus said, "No man can come to the Father but by me but then our JW brothers tell us that the men of the Old Testament were capable of coming to the Father without Christ, who do we believe? Do we believe them or do we believe Christ?

MaxInDHouse:
This is enough to tell other followers what is happening here.

Jesus who has not been born has had followers who are FOLLOWING him according to tctrills!

You forget that he is the firstborn of God. His life did not begin with his earthly birth. I guess they don't teach you that in church but thanks to Nairaland you get to learn that from me.
And yes he was David's Lord a thousand years before his earthly birth.

achorladey:
I was surprised he said he used scripture overwhelmingly. It is just to save face.

What do you expect him to say. He must justify his falsehoods. Actually, I don't blame him he has been turned to a machine and can't think for himself.

MaxInDHouse:
Guy i can understand how difficult this could be for you after disgracing yourself publicly thinking people who never followed Jesus' teachings could be Christians. So if you proudly refuse to admit your blunder there is nothing to agree upon. This is not something we need to start arguing about because it's as simple as ABC.

I asked you from the beginning:

Who is a Christian?

And you answered correctly:

A follower of Christ.

So there is no way people who never saw Jesus or learn from his trained disciples can become Christians that's just the simple truth. You can continue with your friends who maliciously supports you out of spite against Jehovah's Witnesses none of them can say a Muslim or Judaist is a Christian simply because such ones have heard about the prophecy of the Christ.

A Christian is someone who follows the things spoken by Jesus of Nazareth that's why he said all those who lived before John the baptist are lesser than John because such ones never had the opportunity to become Christians learning from the world's most wonderful counselor of all time but those who have learned from Jesus are greater than those people because Jesus the wisdom of God has taught us how to live in Paradise! Matthew 11:11-12

So if you're not humble enough to admit your blunders there is no way you and i can agree!

Again you are wrong, you don't need to see Christ to follow him.
Secondly, people have been following Him even before he was born. Remember, before Abraham, I Am. His work did not begin with his birth.
John 8:56-59
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
Third, he already told you that no man can come to the father except through him. So if any man ever had a relationship with God, he must have come through Christ. Moses David and Abel all had relationships with God.
4th, the Law of Moses was to led men to Christ it was a school master so anyone following the law was following Christ.
5th, he is the Jehovah of the old testament so everyone in the old testament was worshipping and following him. Hence he said, I came unto my own and my own knew me not.

MaxInDHouse:
This is year 2024 and tctrills has come back to my thread again begging me to agree with him after long time of running away claiming i was following him!

I wish I can understand what you wrote but I am sure you and your people understand it so mo problem.

achorladey:
@ tctrills

You wonder how these one know about Jesus Christ


And look! there was a man in Jerusalem named Simʹe·on, and this man was righteous and devout, waiting for Israel’s consolation, and holy spirit was upon him. Furthermore, it had been divinely revealed to him by the holy spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Christ of Jehovah. 27 Under the power of the spirit, he now came into the temple, and as the parents brought the young child Jesus in to do for him according to the customary practice of the Law, he took the child into his arms and praised God and said: “Now, Sovereign Lord, you are letting your slave go in peace according to your declaration, because my eyes have seen your means of salvation that you have prepared in the sight of all the peoples, a light for removing the veil from the nations and a glory of your people Israel.” And the child’s father and mother continued wondering at the things being spoken about him. Also, Simʹe·on blessed them and said to Mary, the child’s mother: “Look! This child is appointed for the falling and the rising again of many in Israel and for a sign to be spoken against 35 (yes, a long sword will be run through you*), in order that the reasonings of many hearts may be revealed.”
36 Now there was a prophetess, Anna the daughter of Phanʹu·el, of Ashʹer’s tribe. This woman was well along in years and had lived with her husband for seven years after they were married, and she was a widow now 84 years old. She was never missing from the temple, rendering sacred service night and day with fasting and supplications. In that very hour she came near and began giving thanks to God and speaking about the child to all who were waiting for Jerusalem’s deliverance.

To him these one don't know about Jesus Christ too.

He doesn't know what to believe

johnw47:
Christians follow Christ through the Holy Spirit

so called Jehovah's witnesses follow Jehovah through false prophets

They don't even know what they follow

MaxInDHouse:
I have quoted overwhelming scriptures but as usual you jumped into my thread without the knowledge of what is been discussed and when you found out that you goofed instead of apologizing you want me to path you on the back like those liars will do for you for agree to disagree.
NO!
Next time don't come for stupid arguments on my thread.
Only followers of Jesus are Christians.
They are PRACTICING what he taught not just people who heard about the Christ.
Judaists and Muslims heard about the Messiah through prophecies in the scriptures that does not automatically makes them Christians.

You did not point to a single scripture. I was the one teaching you from the scripture. Your best excuse was the example of Jesus and the rich man and I still explained it to you using the scripture. Minus that, you really had nothing but it's ok.
Let's agree to disagree