₦airaland Forum

achorladey:
Baba I know you are aware they have a manual given to the elders on internal workings and control of members. [/b]You cannot [b]approach an elder or a ministerial servant as a Jehovah’s witnesses and say you want to marry a non member and expect them to SIGN and SEAL it. Oga tctrills, e no go happen. A member can decide to do that on his own volition don't expect to get approval from the principal officers of that congregation. Policies and procedures are followed, If I get time I go post am for here.

So a ministerial servant or elders that even decides to marry non members will face the consequences that comes with it.

The JW Organization has many faults like others they are not perfect so why would they prevent their members from marrying nonmembers? Are they saying that others are sinners?

KnowAll:
Nigerians in diaspora are not going to vote. Is this a misplaced priority or what. Or is he soliciting for funds as he is not ready to spend shi-shi on his own election.

Obi d people who would vote for u are in Nigeria engage them.

You are not an Obi supporter why are you concerned about his campaign methods?

ccjoe:
I haven't been able to sleep since yesterday. I'm a promising young guy and still in school and this girl is my bestie in school.
We do it regularly and without condom, I never knew it will end like this.
Pls i'm just an orphan and still very young.. I need advice on how to handle this situation now..

##Mature minds only and no insult pls.

Guy, you don't need advice.No amount of advice can clear the mess you have created. You chose to gamble with your future by having unprotected sex. It's time to live with the consequences. All you need now is financial advice. Get a job, you have a family on the way.
One more thing, you say you are a promising young man, challenges like this would show if you are truly promising.

achorladey:
How will you the great love that exist among them when a parent of one Jehovah's witnesses saying that over his dead body his son gets married to the daughter of another family of Jehovah’s witness?

Where is the great love here?

How will you explain after sitting for close to +/- 7 hours at a convention programme and some few minutes after the programme coming to an end ELDERS exchange blows and slaps at the motor park or parking space over sitting arrangements or transport fare.

To them it will sound demeaning but na REALITY you dey see so.

But Janosky says they allow their members to marry nonmembers.

Courz:
Sorry to say but JWs will not listen to you. Templee333 created this thread and advised JWs to stay away because he knows his former religion completely and how JWs are. He invited JWs that are struggling to believe what the Cult teaches them. So, he expects these these ones plus EXJWs to contribute to the thread. You know JWs have a reputation for arguing and calling people names because they disagree with them. This is the nature of the religion. Arguments! Please, do not expect JWs and EXJWs to not have exchanges because Watchtower has groomed JWs to see EXJWs as enemies of God! In every forum outside Nigeria I have been to where EXJWs and JWs are in, there are always exchanges. It is the nature of the Cult.

EXJWs do not have issues with JWs. They have issues specifically with Watchtower, the leadership, the system of how the religion is set up, the Lies and whitewashing of their history, the Lies present in their doctrines, the unspeakable activities Watchtower indulges and Shields from JWs, etc. There are too many inconsistencies in the religion.

I believe he did the right thing by warning JWs to stay off the thread. But you can not blame any JW for being here. I understand how uncomfortable it can be when someone is not saying very positive things about your organization. Even if their laws teach that they should stay away from "apostates" I understand why many of them would find it impossible to restrain themselves. All in all, this has been a wonderful thread thanks to the cool headed Templee333.

JW and non JW alike, if there is anything we can learn from Templee333 example, it is that we don't need to fight those we disagree with.
His story might be appealing to non JW and annoying to Jehovah witness members but it is his experience and he is entitled to it.
He tells the imperfections and failures of the Jehovah witness system. But he never for once engaged in fights and foolish online battles. He just told his story and shared his experience. I have learnt a lot. I might not agree 100% with him but it is his experience not mine.

I have missed so much in less than 2 days. I have a lot of catching up to do.

MrPresident1:
Guy you are just arguing without knowledge. Let me save you, Angel means Messenger.

Oga the messenger in your office is not an angel. Again, when God said he created man a little less than the angels, he was referring to heavenly beings and not your angel Adam or angel Moses or angel Adeboye.

MrPresident1:
Sons of God does not imply angels to you because you do not know the meaning of the word ''Angel''. Go and check the meaning of the word 'Angel'. When you have found the meaning, relate it with the MESSAGE and command to Adam 'to go and multiply and replenish the earth' Genesis 1:28. Adam is called the son of God, is he an angel or not? Meanwhile, it is Israel not Isreal

Adam is not an angel and Angels reside in heaven. The children of Israel were not angels. Even with your logic, it implies that angels from heaven did not have to come down to sleep with women. It could have been your angel Adam and co.

MrPresident1:
Luke 3:38
King James Version

38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.. This is Adam being called the son of God. Now, tell me, is Adam an Angel?

That's my point, when the bible speaks of the sons of God, it does not imply angels. We are the sons of God. The Bible did not call angels the sons of God. So when you read the Sons of God, the Bible is usually talking about righteous men of God. Adam was called a son of God. Solomon was called a son of God. The children of Isreal were called the Children of God and even new testament Christians are called sons of God. Not once were angels referred to as the sons of God.

MrPresident1:
Genesis 6:2 King James Version 2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. Explain his verse

It says sons of God, not Angels. Are we not the Children of God? In the entire bible, angels have not been described as the sons of God. But Man has been called the sons of God.

MrPresident1:
Angles or Angels? olodo

You are right I made a mistake but angels never came to sleep with women. At least not in the bible.

BluntTheApostle:
I believe this is outdated statistics.

But anyway, Buhari had his job cut out for him by years of mismanagement in the oil sector.

You keep going back to this. No one says the oil sector was ever ok but he made it worse. This excuse you are making for him, would you keep making it for every administration after him? If we keep doing this, then we do not expect changes to be made.
Your darling Buhari declared himself oil minister. His biggest achievement was spending $340 million to explore oil in the Chad basin. This man only knows how to waste money.

BluntTheApostle:
Key oil producers in West Africa are experiencing dwindling sales as export to Europe and Asia appear to be on steady decline.
https://www.blueprint.ng/nigerias-oil-supply-to-asia-shrinks-as-india-bends-towards-russia/

First our shrinking production began before 2022. Secondly, we are still selling less than we can. Much less. OPEC allows us to sell 1.8 million barrels, we sell 1.2 million. That means we lose about $60million each day. That comes up to over $22 billion in a year. Do you see our problem?

Owopariola001:
Now compare it with Today's Lagos that has experienced Tinubu.

Compare your village in 1980 with today. We expect to see new houses na. The point is, Lagos has always been the one of the fastest growing cities in Africa. With or without APC. Lagos of the 1980s was more developed than Ibadan of today. So what really did Tinubu add?
In the 1980s Ado Ekiti was a Forrest. Today it's a town.Abakiliki was a farm today it is one of the finest state capitals. Lagos did nothing special.

Owopariola001:
This is Tinubu's Lagos.
Oya compare, and be the judge

Please also check 10 states with the highest debt

BluntTheApostle:
But you don't compare economy this way. It is very unfair. Are realities the same now and 10 years ago?

Have you asked why we export less oil? We don't have the market we used to have. That is why there are barrels sitting at the shores with next to no buyers.

Do you also know that we achieved a record low inflation in the history of Nigeria under Buhari in 2018 or thereabouts?

We are exporting less because of corruption and decay. We are not meeting our OPIC quarter. This mean that the market is there but we don't produce enough to meet our share of the market
But if you know how much oil is sold without being recorded, if you know how much oil is being lost you would cry.
Don't mention one year of little inflation. Look at the entire 8 years. Look at what happened to the Dollar, from 150 to 750. Haba

BluntTheApostle:
Because services are the least subsidized in Europe than anywhere else.

Subsidies are what make public services cheaper than private.

Actually Europe is high taxed and highly subsidized. From the health sector to transport we have government subsidy.
But then, the US has the most subsidized health sector yet it had the most expensive health care system. Same with education, the Us spends more on education yet it has the most expensive universities.
Government spending is not the solution to cheaper and better services.
The US actually spends more in subsidizing fuel through corn and eternol subsidies yet petrol is cheaper in Mexico.

BluntTheApostle:
Don't make me laugh.

People were shot at during subsidy protest. People were killed. In Kano, 12 people were killed when police shot into crowd.

Mr Aderinto was killed in Lagos. Some people like Mr Udoh were shot in the legs.

You say Buhari was the worst. That is very debatable.

Not at all debatable. The economy is worse, power is worse, security is worse, human rights is trampled upon, even the oil sector has collapsed. We export less oil than we did 10 years ago. The naira fell than at any time in our nations history and the inflation these last 8 years has been crazy. Nothing to debate here.

BluntTheApostle:
I get all of your points, though.

The private sector will of course do it better.

And Buhari did not make some great judgement.

But my own point is that previous governments had the job cut out for him. If Buhari leaves, he will have to share the blame for the debt profile which someone else will inevitably inherit come 2023.

Government never exists in a vacuum.

Again talking about the private sector, how come train rides are much cheaper in US than the EU. In US the rails are privately owned while in Europe they are government operated.

BluntTheApostle:
I get all of your points, though.

The private sector will of course do it better.

And Buhari did not make some great judgement.

But my own point is that previous governments had the job cut out for him. If Buhari leaves, he will have to share the blame for the debt profile which someone else will inevitably inherit come 2023.

Government never exists in a vacuum.

My point is that Buhari is evil. He is causing us pain and he is the worst civilian president by all metrics.
Nigeria has never had it this bad. He kept none of his promises and only made things worse.
I am not saying that any of the other leaders were good.
Under Jonathan, we protested subsidy and no one was killed. But try and protest today and see what happens.

BluntTheApostle:
When producers have to compete for customers, prices fall.

Simple economics.

In the case of NITEL, telecommunications was highly inaccessible not because it was a public sector thing but because it was a monopoly.

If we had only MTN, things will be just as expensive, and if we had an oligopoly, things will not be very affordable either.

A highly competitive market is what we are enjoying, not necessarily private sector investment.

In the early periods after privatization, people were buying MTN sims for 30k. That was not cheap or accessible, was it?

And we know much a handset cost at that time. But now, we have many manufacturers in the market.

If you want, we can also compare private airlines to the dead Nigerian airways

BluntTheApostle:
When producers have to compete for customers, prices fall.

Simple economics.

In the case of NITEL, telecommunications was highly inaccessible not because it was a public sector thing but because it was a monopoly.

If we had only MTN, things will be just as expensive, and we had an oligopoly, things will not be very affordable either.

A highly competitive market is what we are enjoying, not necessarily private sector investment.

In the early periods after privatization, people were buying MTN sims for 30k. That was not cheap or accessible, was it?

And we know much a handset cost at that time. But now, we have many manufacturers in the market.

What are you talking about? Can there be competition if government is a monopoly. Competition is a byproduct of the private sector.
Now even when MTN was most expensive. It was still more accessible to the ordinary man than Nitel.
When it was only Nitel in operation, less than a percent of Nigerians could afford telecommution.
If you don't take any other thing, today, learn that competition is a byproduct of the private sector.

BluntTheApostle:
Private sector did not make telecommunications more accessible and affordable. That is an oversimplification.

Rather, a highly competitive market made it so.

Or would you rather talk about the postal service. They used to be the only option for delivery in the past. Right now, no one depends on Nipost for there delivery. The private sector always makes it better, cheaper and more competitive.

BluntTheApostle:
Private sector did not make telecommunications more accessible and affordable. That is an oversimplification.

Rather, a highly competitive market made it so.

What are you talking about. Explain.

BluntTheApostle:
So, private sectors should handle rail and oil and further kill Nigerians with exorbitant costs?

Imagine power generation by private sector. Ordinary power distribution, Nigerians are lamenting.

You people are not realistic at all.

Let FG just dare to remove subsidies from education and health, and see how the country will turn out.

You have no understanding of the private sector. Unless you were born yesterday, you would know that it was the private sector that make telecommution less expensive and more accessible. Nitel was kicked out of business because it could not complete with the private sector.

In Nigeria today, power is mostly generated by your government not private sector. It's only distribution that is fully in the hands of the private. Please post accurate information. Each time you hear that our generation has collapsed or fail, it's 100% on the government side not the private.

On the other hand Aso rock's electricity was powered by a private company for years. Hence the power there is constant.

About subsidy, it's all government corruption and government giving money to there friends.

In the Niger Delta, we have illegal refinaries all over the place. It's not a big deal to refine oil yet you are not able to do it legally. If you can't see that this government is sitting on our development then you can see much.

BluntTheApostle:
So, because someone is no longer there, they are free from accountability? That is what you are saying.

Who destroyed our power sector and education with bogus privatization?

Who mismanaged the Boko Haram crisis which has now turned to a sort of a jihad today?

Who failed to diversify away from oil which made the global oil slump difficult for us to manage?

Obasanjo had eight years, GEJ 5 years to prepare a stable economy for Buhari to inherit and work his own magic on.

Many of you don't know that government does not exist in a vacuum.

Recession did not happen because Buhari just came. It happened because of the failure of past governments to work.

If Obasanjo had diversified from oil, and GEJ had tackled Boko Haram with zeal, instead of wasting precious dollars on amnesty and reelection, we won't be wasting so much on defense budget today.

Without insurgency, Borno is the food basket of the nation. With good roads, food will be cheaply transported, and we will not be dealing with inflation of that kind today.

Buhari has his own fault, but he has performed better because I doubt that any of Obasanjo or Goodluck would have been able to successfully lead us out of that terrible first recession.

If we choose to blame formal leaders, we would start from 1960 and that would be foolish. The Germans after WW2 built a nation from crash rather than blame Hitler for the bad economy.

2. Our power section has never been good so blaming OBJ for it is false. Except you were born yesterday, you would know that Nigeria was never a giant in the power sector. The only reason our power is poor is because we do not produce enough power. Not because the distribution is handled by private hands. Stop echoing Buhari's lies.

3. Who mismanaged Boko Haram? All administrations. But under this administration the North West was over run by Fulani terrorist and the South east by unknown Gunmen. This administration has been the worse when it comes to security.

There is a full blown war between the Hausa and Fulani in the North West.

4. Stop blaming Obasanjo. Why didn't you blame Abacha, Babangida and even Gen Buhari. The past administration failed but only a fool would live in the past. We voted for Buhari to turn things around not to make them worse.

He met poor electricity and made it worse. He met poor economy and made it worse. He met poor security and made it worse. He remains the worst we ever had.

5. Buhari promised to end insurgence. It used to be basically a North East thing. But now at least 3 rigions are out run by insurgence.
This county is now a failed state economically. Not one sector is working. We borrowed billions but could not solve a single problem.

6. According to transparency International, we are now more corrupt than anytime in the last 20 years

7. I really don't know if you are paid to do this but you can't defend the indefensible.

Janosky:
[url][/url]

Oga tctrills, is 1 Corinthians 5:1-2,9-13, your Bible's doctrine?

When my Christian brother disagrees with the inspired instruction of 2Corinthians5:1-2,9-13, is that brother doing the will of God/sticking to your Bible's doctrine?

The particular sins were mentioned, but disagreements were not mentioned. Paul was very specific. Also where one disagrees with us, we always think we are right but the person could be right. Peter and Paul had disagreements on doctrine.

Janosky:
I have NEVER said that anyone disagreeing with me, therefore that individual is wicked.
No, not at all.

Let paste 1 Corinthians 5:1-2,9-11 here.
Please,I have 2 questions for you.

5 It is actually reported [everywhere] that there is sexual immorality among you, a kind of immorality that is condemned even among the [unbelieving] Gentiles: that someone [a]has [an intimate relationship with] his father’s wife.(A) 2 And you are proud and arrogant! You should have mourned in shame so that the man who has done this [disgraceful] thing would be removed from your fellowship!


9 I wrote you in my [previous] letter not to associate with [sexually] immoral people— 10 not meaning the immoral people of this world, or the greedy ones and swindlers, or idolaters, for then you would have to get out of the world and human society altogether! 11 But actually, I have written to you not to associate with any so-called [Christian] brother if he is sexually immoral or greedy, or is an idolater [devoted to anything that takes the place of God], or is a reviler [who insults or slanders or otherwise verbally abuses others], or is a drunkard or a swindler—you must not so much as [e]eat with such a person.(C) 12 For what business is it of mine to judge outsiders (non-believers)? Do you not judge those who are within the church [to protect the church as the situation requires]? 13 God alone sits in judgment on those who are outside [the faith]. Remove the wicked one from among you [expel him from your Church"

My questions:
According to 1 Corinthians 5:1-2,9,11-13, is it your Bible's injunction that Janosky "REMOVE, STAY AWAY from the Church member unrepentantly practicing everything immoral stated in the aforementioned verses?

Is it your Bible's injunction that Janosky "REMOVE, STAY AWAY from the Church member who disagree with 1 Corinthians 5:1-2,9,11-13?

It actually specifically mentioned the sins. I am not sure it spoke about a brother who disagrees with your doctrine. sexually immoral or greedy, or is an idolater [devoted to anything that takes the place of God], or is a reviler [who insults or slanders or otherwise verbally abuses others], or is a drunkard or a swindler—you must not so much as [e]eat with such a person

Janosky:
Emphasis on verses 9-11, pertaining to your question.
Verses 9-11, AVOID, STAY AWAY from the brother or sister practicing the immoral sinful life ,hiding it & unrepentant.

Verse 12:
Jehovah's servants would be judged for immoral, licentious living conflicting with God's standards.
Individuals outside the faith, their immoral way of life is not our business.

Verse 13.
Expel, REMOVE the wicked wrong doer from your midst.

Someone disagreeing with you does not make him wicked. I disagree with you all the time and I don't think you are wicked.

Janosky:
Emphasis on verses 9-11, pertaining to your question.
Verses 9-11, AVOID, STAY AWAY from the brother or sister practicing the immoral sinful life ,hiding it & unrepentant.

Verse 12:
Jehovah's servants would be judged for immoral, licentious living conflicting with God's standards.
Individuals outside the faith, their immoral way of life is not our business.

Verse 13.
Expel, REMOVE the wicked wrong doer from your midst.

Well, it's one thing to be practicing immorality and another thing to disagree with your religious position.