₦airaland Forum

honesttalk21:
Are you justifying being uncouth and antagonistic?

Do you feel better abusing Allah (may he forbid) and his prophet as stupid as revenge for saying Yeshua is not but a man honoured as a messenger in this world and the hereafter?
Should the honour extend to making or calling him God?

Do we not point out your misunderstanding the Quran verse or hadith?

What you succeed in doing mostly is not answering my direct questions.

Do I abuse Allah?
I only say things that are written by your scholars and the implication

I even try not to insult your prophet Mohammed except when a person like LegalWolf starts the game of mud slinging.

You don't point out any misunderstanding, rather what you do is to restate your preferred Islamic Narrative of course which is never a response nor answer to my questions.

AkporsMechanical:
I promise to be very brief.
My wife and I live in a three bedroom flat without paying rent, although we only occupy one room since we don't have much property yet. The owner of the house abandoned the house before now and when we had accomodation issue asked us to stay there. We have been here since last year. However, there is no Geepee tank to supply water into the house. We could only pump water into our little drum when there is light. So I always go fetch water from the neighbouring compounds whenever there is no light which have resulted into several insults. My wife has been dragging me that I must buy a Geepee tank.

My salary as a private school teacher is barely enough to feed us talk more of saving to buy a Geepee tank especially in this economic crisis. In the midst of all these, my wife's phone went bad and needed a new one Just this afternoon, my wife started raining insults on me that I am not behaving like a man at all, that I should have settled down fully before thinking of marriage, that I want to make her go hungry. This was because I told her I would cut off some part of my salary to be saving so I can buy curtain for our room, television and save for Geepee tank. She even went ahead to say I am poor and wretched just because I can't afford her a new phone for now.

Since afternoon, I have refused to eat. My problem here is that my parents love my wife and my parents are far from where I reside. And I don't want to report my wife to my parents so it won't bring disrespect later to her in the future. Secondly, as the first born of my parent,I don't know how my parents will take it if I tell them I don't want to marry her again so they don't have b.p. I am really really confused. The little extra money I get from extra tutorial is what I do send to my two siblings in school even though is very little compare to their needs but at least it is something.

I feel like running away but to where? I truly love my wife but she is regretting marrying me. Please what can I do?

As a marriage councillor,
There are a lot wrong with you and your wife.
1. Does she know exactly how much you earn?
If you keep her in the dark about this, he bill will go through the roof
2. Are you into an cooperative organisation?
It is important to join one for the purpose of purchasing assets you need. To matter how small, let some savings go into your cooperative savings.
3. How much do you need to transport yourself to work and back plus a little change to buy occasional treats for your wife and monthly haircut?
You must allow you wife to know this information

4 Finally, give her your total remaining Salary after these deductions!
She will now be responsible for every other things in the house with this money.
She will stop asking you for more money because she knows you have given her all

I kniw that it is difficult to get jobs but encourage her to find something doing!

Mr honesttalk21,
It's been nice chatting with you though because at least you and AntiChristian to a large extent have been cordial in trying to explain away the goofs created by your prophet.

You will agree with me that the Dctrinenof Taoheed is not iron-clad. The weaknesses are deep and far reaching. The only way out for you is if you become a Qur'an-Only Muslim which of course isn't a good option either.

I think We can close this chapter for now till another time.

With respect,
Have a beautiful day sir!

honesttalk21:
Do you not antagonize Muslims or even Islam in saying distasteful untruths about Allah and Prophet Muhammad pbuh?

Does any Muslim dare insult Yeshua of Nazareth?

Have you found claims I made without corresponding References to back it up from your Islamic sources?
They are distasteful TRUTHS and that is why you find it offensive!

Is it untrue that you demote my God the Holy Spirit to the level of a mere Angel?

Is it untrue that you demote my God the Word (who became flesh) as ordinary man?

Is it untrue that 5 times a day you Pray to Allah not to make you like the accursed Jews and Christians who have gone astray?

Is it untrue that you claim that our Bible is corrupted?

Is it untrue that you claim that the very foundation of Christianity (the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ) does not exist?

If you attack the very foundation of Christianity, should I keep quiet and watch you do so?

The problem you have with me is that unlike most Christians, I know too much of Islam for your comfort.

The only effective weapon against Islam is the TRUTH quoted from the statements of Islam

AntiChristian:
What about it?

It is your scholars that fabricated your religious texts to a point that more than half is unreliable!

How then can you insinuate that someone who gave you Evidences from your own religious books is not retelling facts?

AntiChristian:
You can go ahead and look for the authoritative book you created for Muslims! It seems you're the same as those tenq and the likes!

They already have a standard for your books and even your beliefs!

Sai da safe!

AntiChristian:
What is this? How many monikers are you using to look for attention here?
When did i complain such to you?
And what does Mawdoo" and Daif mean?

Are you already dazed %and not seeing clearly !?
Fabricated and Weak!

Do you have other meanings to the words?

Is it u true that you class some of your hadiths as Maudu and Daif?

honesttalk21:
Enjoy you foolery.com

Which Bible verse says Cherubs and Seraphs are angels or type of angels?

Which bible verse says they are not Angels?

I asked you again and again:
What is the meaning of the word Mal'akh (which is translated as Angels).


Once you know the meaning, come back!

AntiChristian:
You can go ahead and look for the authoritative book you created for Muslims! It seems you're the same as those tenq and the likes!

They already have a standard for your books and even your beliefs!

Sai da safe!

Lies with EVIDENCES from Islamic Literatures. Are you not the one who will complain that your sources are Maudu or Daif?


Sorry sir.

You are just been caught in the web of Islamic fabrications

honesttalk21:
Indeed





Verily the above aren't antagonistic.

Were my statements UNTRUE?
Don't I give you Qur'an verses, Hadiths or Tafsirs to back up my claim?


When you say that my God is an ORDINARY man and an ORDINARY prophet and a CREATURE of Allah

Are you being confrontational or saying your beliefs as you perceive it?

honesttalk21:
One reason that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) may have been concerned that people would not understand his warnings about the Dajjal is that he knew that this figure could be a source of confusion and misguidance. The Dajjal is described as a powerful and deceitful figure who will try to lead people away from the truth. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) warned that the Dajjal would have the power to perform miracles and deceive many people, and he emphasized the importance of staying steadfast in one’s faith and not being swayed by false signs and wonders.

Another reason that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) may have been concerned that people would not understand his warnings about the Dajjal is that he knew that ignorance and disbelief could be a major barrier to understanding and accepting these warnings. The Dajjal is a complex and controversial figure, and many people may find it difficult to accept or believe in his existence without a solid foundation in Islamic knowledge and belief. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) emphasized the importance of education and understanding in order to combat ignorance and disbelief, and he urged his followers to seek knowledge and strive for understanding.

Tell me how people will mistake the Dajjal for Allah if there is no semblance (according to Mohammed)?

It is impossible to mistake an elephant for a lion. One can mistake a Tiger for a Leopard and there are reasons.

Can one mistake a human for a dog?

It is not possible.


All these means is that Mohammed himself thought that Allah looks like a man!

honesttalk21:
Ubadah ibn al-Samit reported:[/b] The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Verily, I have told you so much about the False Messiah that I fear you will not understand. Verily, the False Messiah is a short man, pigeon toed, curly haired, with one eye that is blind, neither protruding nor sunken. If you are confused about him, then know that your Lord does not have one eye.”[/i]


You see Verily, I have told you so much about the False Messiah that I fear you will not understand

You definitely do not understand.

You don't seem to get the problem

Mohammed was supposed to compare the Jesus with the Dajjal but he did not.


Mohammed compared Allah with Dajjal!


And he gave the difference as ONE eye!


Mishkat al-Masabih 3525
He reported God’s Messenger as saying, “When any of you fights he must avoid the face, for God created Adam in His own image.”

You prophet clearly thought that the Face of Men are like the Face of Allah.

honesttalk21:
No such verse exists and you make a lame excuse isn't it?

Angel is a translation of the Jewish word (Mal'akh). This was where you got the Arabic ملك, (malak)

You don't know the meaning, you just know the term.

What does Mal'akh mean?

honesttalk21:
Cherubim and Seraphim are often mistakenly believed to be angels, however, this is not the case. These beings are distinct entities with their own unique characteristics and roles within the realm of celestial beings. The misconception that Cherubim and Seraphim are angels stems from a lack of understanding and knowledge about the hierarchy of heavenly beings as described in religious texts and scriptures.

If I get you correctly, Cherubims and Seraphims are not messangers of God. They don't have any errand or task they do for God?

I can understand you now, for someone who doesn't know what the Spirit is!

honesttalk21:
The mentioned hadith is about tahajjud night prayer. This hadith uses allegorical language to emphasize the spiritual sharpness of the human soul at night when he should seek forgiveness and ask God. This is the time, he feels more devotion and is more sincere in his prayer. Thus there is a higher chance of his dua to be accepted due to his SINCERITY, not for God’s proximity. God, who is described in the Quran as someone near to Jugular vein, whose throne transverse the whole universe (2:255), doesn’t need to physically descend into the lower physical sky to listen to humans.

How can it be allegorical when actual physical stuff are mentioned.


Allah descends to the lowest heaven is extremely clear and nothing allegorical about it.

The third part of the night is extremely clear and nothing allegorical about it.

Except the hadith is a fabrication as usual


Allah Cannot be omnipresent and still descend from a certain location to another certain location ?

This is one of the problems in the Taoheed!

AsaBlackheart:
I do not know what the Taoheed says.
I am simply commenting on the antagonistic form your post took

Trust me : my posts are neither confrontational nor antagonistic.

My Muslim friends are prone to telling deliberate and obvious lies, thus to get any message across you have to DRIVE it in.

I try not to give personal insults nor abuse to anyone such that the conversation is still averagely cordial and civil

honesttalk21:
Enjoy you foolery.com

Which Bible verse says Cherubs and Seraphs are angels or type of angels?

Why waste my time with one who doesn't know the meaning of Angel and is arguing blindly?

AsaBlackheart:
Are you here to educate and enlighten people or to antagonize them?[color=#000099][/color]

I have Educated Muslims
I have Enlightened Muslims

The truth is bitter:
Taoheed is a faulty doctrine of God!

honesttalk21:
The concept of Allah’s descent emphasizes His closeness to His creation and His mercy towards those who seek repentance and forgiveness. It serves as a reminder for believers to strengthen their relationship with Allah and strive for spiritual growth.

Considering the different time zones as you have pointed out in an early opposed the ability of Allah to be a different time zones late night or last of the night at the same time the reflection of his grandiose ability.

Allah indeed the supreme and alone can be do that.

I gave an indication of this when talking about the throne of Allah and his creation that the throne encompasses the entire creation. You don't know the Arabic phrase inna lillahi wa Inna ilayhi raji'un; it is from Allah we come and back to him we return. There is nothing without Allah and everything depends on Allah

No problem!
Allah comes DOWN or DESCENDS (according to Mohammed) into the lowest heaven.

Let me help you our with the Logic:
1. Allah is One
2. Allah is NOT a Spirit
3. Allah left his throne over the seventh heaven and DESCENDS to the lowest heavens because he loves the Muslims
4. Unfortunately, since Mohammed couldn't stop talking, he mentioned the precise time as the third part of the Night
5. Implication, Allah is trapped upon the earth as
a. It is beyond the majesty of Allah to enter his creation (meaning that the hadith is a lie)
b. Allah is permanently trapped in the lowest heaven and he cannot go back .
Of course Allah must be very fast to be able to circumnavigate the earth once every 24 hours.


Its a logical quagmire you Muslims have found yourself sir!

If Allah is EVERYWHERE, he doesn't need to DESCEND where he already is at the third part of the Night.

Too bad that you cannot be helped on this UNLESS, you become Quran-Only-Muslim!

honesttalk21:
The Prohibition of Fighting the Face

The hadith emphasizes the need to avoid striking the face during combat, as it is a clearly distinctive part of human identity. The face is considered a symbol of honor, dignity, and humanity, reflecting the divine image in which every human being was created.

God Created Adam in His Own Image

This statement underscores the unique and special status of human beings in Islam. The Quran also mentions that God created Adam with His hands and breathed into him, making humans the best of creation [Quran 15:29;(And when I have proportioned him and breathed into him of My [created] soul, then fall down to him in prostration."
38:72( So when I have proportioned him and breathed into him of My [created] soul, then fall down to him in prostration).

By avoiding the face during combat, Muslims are reminded of their shared divine origin and the need to respect one another.

The hadith’s teaching can be applied to various aspects of life beyond combat, such as treating others with respect, showing compassion towards all humans, and acknowledging their inherent dignity. It encourages people to recognize their shared humanity and strive for peace and harmony.

I dont know how muslims think!

As Muslims, You can kill a human being created in the image of God
As Muslims, You can mutilate a human being created in the image of God

What is special about the face of an infidel?

Now, your prophet said:

Mishkat al-Masabih 3525
He reported God’s Messenger as saying, “When any of you fights he must avoid the face, for God created Adam in His own image.”

You prophet clearly thought that the Face of Men are like the Face of Allah.


If not,
1. Why did Mohammed compare Allah with the Dajjal?
Is the Dajjal not human?

Allah: who looks like the Da'jjal (with the exception of the eye)
Sunan Abī Dāwūd 4320
‘Ubadah ibn al-Samit reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Verily, I have told you so much about the False Messiah that I fear you will not understand. Verily, the False Messiah is a short man, pigeon toed, curly haired, with one eye that is blind, neither protruding nor sunken. If you are confused about him, then know that your Lord does not have one eye.”



2. Mohammed says he saw his Lord as a young man

"I saw my Lord in the form of a young man having plenty of curly hair in a green dress."

Narrator: Abdullah bin Abbas , The narrator: Ibn Taymiyyah ,
Source: Statement of Dressing the Jahmiyyah,
page or number: 7/290| A summary of the hadeeth’s verdict: Sahih
Graduation: It was included by Ibn Uday in ((Al-Kamil fi Al-Du’afa’) (2/260), Al-Bayhaqi in ((The Names and Attributes)) (938), and Ibn Al-Jawzi in ((The Infinite Illnesses)) (16) with a slight difference

Let me also give you the Arabic link
https://www.dorar.net/h/9k1WPsJH

honesttalk21:
Genesis 3:24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side[a] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

Exodus 25:17 “Make an atonement cover of pure gold—two and a half cubits long and a cubit and a half wide.
18 And make two cherubim out of hammered gold at the ends of the cover.
19 Make one cherub on one end and the second cherub on the other; make the cherubim of one piece with the cover, at the two ends.
20 The cherubim are to have their wings spread upward, overshadowing the cover with them. The cherubim are to face each other, looking toward the cover.

Cherub/Cherubim made by man?

Exodus 37:6 He made the atonement cover of pure gold—two and a half cubits long and a cubit and a half wide.
7 Then he made two cherubim out of hammered gold at the ends of the cover.
8 He made one cherub on one end and the second cherub on the other; at the two ends he made them of one piece with the cover.
9 The cherubim had their wings spread upward, overshadowing the cover with them. The cherubim faced each other, looking toward the cover.

1Kings 6:23-30
¶“23In the inner sanctuary Solomon made two cherubim of olivewood. Each was ten cubits high. 24Five cubits was the length of one wing of the cherub, and five cubits the length of the other wing. From the tip of one wing to the tip of the other was ten cubits. 25The other cherub also measured ten cubits —both cherubim had the same measurement and the same form. 26The height of one cherub was ten cubits, and the same for the other cherub.” (1Kings 6:23-26).

Then Ezekiel's vision
The cherubim that Ezekiel saw in visions were also symbols. Yes, they appear as living and moving creatures, but they don't portray any living beings other than God and his attributes. For example the creatures and wheels were full of eyes. It's not hard to understand that this represents God as all⁠-⁠wise, all⁠-⁠knowing, all⁠-⁠seeing. And the proceeding straight forward without turning symbolises God’s absolute righteousness and truth from which he never turns aside.

Of course you don't know what the term Angel mean !

[quote author=honesttalk21 post=128751930][/quote]Of course you don't know what the term Angel (Mal'akh)!

honesttalk21:
The phrase “in His image” is often interpreted in different ways by scholars. Some suggest that it implies Adam’s honor and great status, while others propose that it relates to specific physical or spiritual similarities. However, it is essential to understand that Allah does not have a physical body or form, as He is not like His creation.

Let's look at what Mohammed said:

Mishkat al-Masabih 3525
He reported God’s Messenger as saying, “When any of you fights he must avoid the face, for God created Adam in His own image.”

Are you saying that Allah and his messanger don't know best again?


Khai!
Reinvent Islam all you want but Mohammed couldn't stop talking.

honesttalk21:
Why will it be Prophet Muhammad pbuh saying Cherubim and Seraphim are not angels?

The big surprise here is that cherubim, in the Bible, are not said to be angels. People assume that cherubs are angels, but when we look for proof, none can be found.

Your Problem:
You don't even know what the term Angel mean. Do you?

honesttalk21:
Allah is the pivot of the Muslim faith. The Qurʾān stresses above all Allah’s singularity and sole sovereignty, a doctrinal tenet indicated by the Arabic term tawḥīd (“oneness”). He never sleeps or tires, and, while transcendent, he perceives and reacts to everything in every place through the omnipresence of his divine knowledge. He creates ex nihilo and is in no need of a consort, nor does he have offspring. Three themes preponderate in the Qurʾān:
(1) Allah is the Creator, Judge, and Rewarder; (2) he is unique (wāḥid) and inherently one (aḥad); and
(3) he is omnipotent and all-merciful. Allah is the “Lord of the Worlds,” the Most High; “nothing is like unto him,” and this in itself is to the believer a request to adore Allah as the Protector and to glorify his powers of compassion and forgiveness.


Allah Almighty is One, there is nothing like Him, there is nothing that can overwhelm Him, there is no god besides Him and He is Eternal without a beginning and Enduring without end. He will neither perish nor come to an end and nothing happens except what He wills. No imagination can conceive of Him and no understanding can comprehend Him. He is different from any created being.

Allah Most High says about Himself:

“There is nothing whatever unto like Him.” (al-Shura, 42:11).

لَيْسَ كَمِثْلِهِۦ شَىْءٌۖ
There is nothing like him

Repeating what you think Allah is doesn't change the fact that he is perpetually trapped on the earth chasing Muslims praying to him at the third part of the night.

If Allah truly descend to the lowest heaven, his oneness prevent him to be simultaneously above the heavens.

Allah's onesnss is not different from. the oneness of Iblis who cannot be everywhere at the same time.

So, my brother. Reinventing Allah to the status of the Creator does not make him one.

Allah claimed he made Adam and Jesus with the word "BE"!
But both of these cases are completely UNTRUE!

Did Allah create Adam by BE!?
Did Allah create Jesus by BE!?

honesttalk21:
Cherubim and seraphim are not angels.

Cherubim and seraphim are often mistakenly categorized as angels, but in actuality, they are separate entities within the celestial hierarchy. Cherubim are described as winged creatures with multiple faces and are often depicted as guardians of sacred spaces in religious texts. Seraphim, on the other hand, are described as fiery beings with multiple wings who continuously praise and worship God. While angels also serve as messengers of God and carry out his will, cherubim and seraphim have a different purpose and function within the spiritual realm. It is important to recognize and appreciate the distinctions between these celestial beings

Tell me when and where Mohammed said this?

Just one reference would be okay.


Do you see why I said that you contemporary Muslims are reinventing Islam!

Who was the Islamic prophet that told you this?


Your Problem:
You don't even know what the term Angel mean.

honesttalk21:
You are extremely limiting.

Allah can be big, small, tiny and all you can imagine but more importantly beyond the conception of mankinds thinking.

Nothing can be compared to Allah!

Are you saying that Allah has many shapes?

Why do you contemporary Muslims attempt to reinvent Islam differently from the Islam of Mohammed?

Are you afraid of the limitations?

Nothing can be compared with an amoeba!


Is it true according to Mohammed that Adam was created in the image of Allah?

Is this not a basis of reference?

honesttalk21:
There are indeed different types of angels some of which are perpetually and eternally engaged in worship.

I do not liken these to the Seraphim or Cherubim


1. How little in comparison is the knowledge of man about anything in comparison to God? Have all animals been known by mankind?

How much of the animals of the deeper ends of the sea or oceans does man know?

So, why do you bother with the 24 Elders or the Cherubims and Seraphims?

God did not only make Animals, Jinn, Angels and Humans : there ore other creatures He made

honesttalk21:
Why do you not question the truth of this as you do the other?




The concept of measuring distance by the period of journeys has its origins in the time of the Prophet Muhammad and the early Muslim community. During that era, travel was primarily done on foot, camel, or horse, and distances were often described in terms of how long it would take to travel from one point to another.

Why do you only pick a journey by foot?

Is there anything wrong with conceptualising an extremely Big God?


Do Christians not have a hymn or sing stating they have a very big God who is always by their side?

I am agreeing with you dear. We don't have a hymn like that o. It's a chorus!

The only problem of Mohammed was that he wasn't just conceptualising Allah, he was putting actual figures to it

Did I not just say that Allah must be extremely big.

If there are with Angels that carry the throne of Allah and the distance between their ears is about 10 million kilometres, it means that Allah's throne would be at least six times the width (approximately 60 million kilometres). We can estimate Allah's throne to be at least 120million kilometres high.


Do you perfectly agree with me on this that Allah is extremely big ?

honesttalk21:
Revelation was the last book to be accepted into the Christian biblical canon, and even at the present day some Nestorian churches reject it. It was tainted because the heretical sect of the Montanists relied on it and doubts were raised over its Jewishness and authorship, and it was not until 419 that it was included in the canon.

The compilation of the Canon clearly shows how Christians choose what of revelation they accept and what they reject?

In any case this is probably in order as you have stated the Bible is a compilation of different books written by different authors. Perhaps some were not truly divinely inspired?

Unfortunately, the fact that neither Allah nor Mohammed knew this is a puzzly that only modern Muslims can answer.

You seem better in knowledge than both of them.

honesttalk21:
Are you sure there aren't other things that surrounds this throne.

Isaiah 6:2 Above him were seraphim, each with six wings: With two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying. 3 And they were calling to one another:

“Holy, holy, holy is the Lord Almighty;
the whole earth is full of his glory

Are the Seraphim same as the 24 ELDERS?

Cherubims and Seraphim were special kinds of Angels who worship God but they do not surround the throne of God. Cherubims and Seraphims do not have crowns.

See how easily I answered your questions.

Now, please answer mine?

1. Do you think the only creatures of Allah are the Angels, the Jinn, Humans and Animals?

2. From the depiction of Mohammed about the distance between angels ears, do you agree that Allah must be extremely big?

3. Do you now concur that the throne of Allah as described by Mohammed and several Tafsirs is a real throne?

honesttalk21:
I can't agree with you here. Just the ear of an angel is 700 years.

Is it the ears used to carry the throne? Mind that there are 8 of such angels. The measure in relation to time is metaphoric so you can understand how far away to him this will be if it will encompass a journey that takes 700yrs *8

It seems you. don't know how the Arabs estimate distance in the olden days.

700 years is the distance a person will cover if he walks for this time.
Let me do the computation for you.

Average day walk of a human is 40km.
In one year a person an walk approx 14,400km
In 700 years, the distance is approximately 10,080,000km..


For perspective :
This is approximately 3 times the distance from the earth to the moon.



Where Mohammed got his Arabian night story, only he and Jibril know

Don't forget that this same man said that an angel has 600 wings.


Sahih al-Bukhari 4856
Narrated `Abdullah:
Regarding the Verses: 'And was at a distance of but two bow-lengths or (even) nearer; So did (Allah) convey the Inspiration to His slave (Gabriel) and then he Gabriel) conveyed (that to Muhammad...' (53.9-10) Ibn Mas`ud narrated to us that the Prophet (ﷺ) had seen Gabriel with six hundred wings.


Can't you see that Allah must be extremely big?

honesttalk21:
It was your submission not mine.

Why do you submit something you yourself don't understand? What is the point of that?

What then is it's relevance?

I gave you what the Bible said about them
1. They surrounded God's throne
2. They worship God endlessly
3. They are heavenly Beings?


Do you think the only creatures of Allah are the Angels, the Jinn, Humans and Animals?

honesttalk21:
WHO AND WHAT ARE THESE 24 ELDERS?. WHY ARE THEY THERE?

No one knows the exact Identity of the "24 Elders" except that
1. They were reported in the Vision of John given to him by Christ Jesus of things in heaven and on earth past-present and future.
2. The are creatures whose duty is to surround the throne of God and worship Him continually.

The 24 Elders seem to be a special class of heavenly Creatures of God with a duty of worship of God.


If any other thing is confusing you, let us know.



Do you think the only creatures of Allah are the Angels, the Jinn, Humans and Animals?

[quote author=honesttalk21 post=128745855][/quote]Do you know the implication of this?

Allah is a physical being with a dimension that can be measured in years of human travel.

Is this not another proof that Allah is localized and a physical being?