₦airaland Forum

honesttalk21:
We will continue after you have been able to exhaust each and every Tafsir that exists.

It was narrated from Jaabir ibn ‘Abd-Allaah that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:

“I have been granted permission to speak about one of the angels of Allaah, one of the bearers of the Throne. The space between his earlobes and his shoulders is the distance of seven hundred years’ travelling.”

(Narrated by Abu Dawood, 4727)

Al-Haafiz Ibn Hajar said concerning this hadeeth: its isnaad meets the conditions of being saheeh.

(Fath al-Baari, 8/665)

honesttalk21:
We will continue after you have been able to exhaust each and every Tafsir that exists

honesttalk21:
The significance of “Arsh Allah” in Islamic teachings cannot be overstated. It represents the ultimate reality and truth of the universe, which is the oneness and uniqueness of Allah. By contemplating the magnificence and grandeur of the throne, Muslims are reminded of the greatness and power of Allah, which inspires them to submit to His will and to strive for righteousness in their lives.

The description of “Arsh Allah” in Islamic literature is often vivid and awe-inspiring. It is said that the throne is made of pure light and that it is surrounded by angels who are constantly glorifying and praising Allah. The throne is also described as being vast and expansive, encompassing all of creation. Some scholars have even suggested that the throne is so large that it encompasses the entire universe, including all of its dimensions and realities.

Why do you derive your understanding of Islam mostly from hadith and not the Quran without extensive understanding of the arabic language as well as the multiple word meaning and nuances therein?

What is the nature, essence and function of the 24 elders you mention? Is your God restricted to the throne?

The Bible also describes God as sitting on a throne, but it does not imply that God is stationary or limited in any way.

honesttalk21:
In many of the Riwaya, it says Arsh is the knowledge of God.

• The measurement and the destiny of the creation are made there.

• All measures proceed from thee through the angels who live there.

• This is what Allama says is the meaning of the verse in Surah Hadid;

“He knows what comes down from the heavens to the earth and whatever goes up from it to the heavens.”(57:4)
• Arsh is that category of knowledge of God in which the measurement of the whole creation is already worked and out and proceeds from.

• Everything is inside the Arsh.

• Some say that there is an Arsh somewhere in the heavens but it is incorrect.

• It is there before, and after the creations.

• Everything was on water before it.

• Everything is just between them.

• Every part and particle would cry to praise Him after the final judgment and then all angels will come back and carry the Arsh.

• This is what Allama Tabatabai says; “Completely in conformity with the explanations by the Imams”

Interpretation of Quran 40:7 and the Concept of a Non-Stagnant Throne

The interpretation of Quran 40:7 is a topic that has sparked much discussion and debate among scholars and believers alike. The verse in question states:

“Allah, it is He who has created the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them in six Days. Then He established Himself above the Throne.“ (Quran 40:7)

Some interpretations of this verse suggest that the phrase “established Himself above the Throne” implies a stagnant or stationary image of Allah, while others argue that this interpretation is not only incorrect but also misleading.

To understand the true meaning of this verse, one must consider the context in which it was revealed. The Quran is a divine revelation that was given to the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) over a period of 23 years. Each verse of the Quran is rich in meaning and significance, and understanding its full context requires a deep knowledge of Arabic language, Islamic history, and the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).

Regarding the verse in question, many scholars have pointed out that the Arabic word used for “established” in this verse is “istawa,” which can have several meanings, including “to ascend,” “to rise,” or “to be established.” This word does not necessarily imply a stagnant or stationary position, but rather a position of power and control.

Moreover, some scholars have argued that the concept of a stagnant throne is inconsistent with the attributes of Allah as described in the Quran. Allah is described as being all-knowing, all-powerful, and ever-present. The idea of a stagnant throne contradicts these attributes, as it implies a limited or stationary position.

Additionally, many scholars have pointed out that the concept of a stagnant throne is not unique to Islam. In fact, this concept appears in many other religious traditions, including Christianity and Judaism. The Bible also describes God as sitting on a throne, but it does not imply that God is stationary or limited in any way.

In conclusion, while some interpretations of Quran 40:7 may suggest a stagnant throne, this interpretation is not only incorrect but also misleading. The true meaning of this verse requires a deep understanding of Arabic language, Islamic history, and the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). The word “istawa” used in this verse can have several meanings, including “to ascend,” “to rise,” or “to be established,” which does not necessarily imply a stagnant or stationary position. Furthermore, the concept of a stagnant throne is inconsistent with the attributes of Allah as described in the Quran and appears in many other religious traditions as well.

honesttalk21:
... Allah, it is He Who has created the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them in six days. Then He rose over (istawa) the Throne (in a manner that suits His Majesty)......

honesttalk21:
To some point yes.

The throne of Allah isn't just a king's seat or chair

honesttalk21:
The throne represents Allah’s sovereignty over all of creation, while others have seen it as a symbol of His transcendence beyond human understanding. Still others have interpreted it as a literal description of Allah’s physical location in the universe.

Regardless of interpretation, however, it is clear that the concept of Allah’s throne holds great significance in Islamic tradition. It represents a powerful image of divine power and majesty, one that inspires reverence and awe in those who contemplate it.

Allah is above His heavens over His Throne (as befits His Majesty), and that He is the Exalted, Most High. He is above all things, and there is nothing that is above Him. Allah says (interpretation of the meaning):

Allah, it is He Who has created the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them in six days. Then He rose over (istawa) the Throne (in a manner that suits His Majesty). You (mankind) have none, besides Him, as a Wali (protector or helper) or an intercessor. Will you not then remember (or receive admonition)?} [As-Sajdah 32:4]

honesttalk21:
The peculiarity of Allah’s uniqueness lies in the fact that Allah is one, indivisible, and unique in all his attributes.

By affirming the oneness and uniqueness of Allah, Muslims express their faith in the transcendence and majesty of God, and they acknowledge their dependence on him as the sole creator and sustainer of the universe.

Expanse2020:
AFTER THEY DISPROOF YOU AND LECTURE YOU AROUND TO KNOW THAT THE EARTH IS SPHERICAL YOU ARE NOW ADAMANT ON IT
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
MUMU MAN believe that the earth is flat he will argued if I didn't bring his caption out

Expanse2020:
You should show us where Allah says it is flat stop spew nonsense say it out

honesttalk21:
Sadly you limit the majesty of the almighty.

Iblis that you compare Allah to does and did not create anything or did he?

TenQ:
I do not dispute against your doctrine of Taoheed at all as, I agree with everything you have said. Only that, you also need to accept the IMPLICATIONS of Taoheed.

1. Iblis is also One (in the strict sense of it) : therefore, the Oneness of Allah (apart that he is supposed to be the creator and suatainer of life and everything) is NOT exclusive to Allah. Even you are One in this strict sense.
......

honesttalk21:
[/quote]Here was what you said with my highlights

[quote author=honesttalk21 post=128733440]Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning): “And He it is Who has created the heavens and the earth in six Days and His Throne was on the water, that He might try you, which of you is the best in deeds” [Hood 11:7].

This is a statement by Allah, may He be glorified and exalted, that His Throne was above the water before He created the heavens and earth and what is in them. Qataadah said: Your Lord, may He be blessed and exalted, is telling you how His creation began before He created the heavens and the earth.

Tafseer al-Tabari, 15/246

Al-Bukhaari (2953) narrated from ‘Imraan ibn Husayn (may Allah be pleased with him) that some of the people of Yemen asked the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) this and said: We have come to you to ask you about this matter. He said: “There was Allah, and there was nothing else besides Him, and His Throne was over the water. He wrote all things in the Book (in heaven) and He created the heavens and the earth.”

Both the verse and the hadeeth are speaking of the beginning of creation, and say that the Throne of Allah, may He be glorified and exalted, was over the water before the creation of heaven and earth.

This does not mean that the Throne is not still over the water.

Al-Bukhaari (6869) and Muslim (1659) narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) said: “The Right Hand of Allaah is full and (its fullness) is not decreased by any spending; it is overflowing by night and day. Think of what He has spent since He created the heavens and the earth, but all this spending had not decreased what is in His Right Hand.” He said: “And his Throne is over the water, and in His other Hand is the power to bring about death, and He raises some people and brings other low.”

Al-Haafiz Ibn Hajar (may Allah have mercy on him) said: In the report of Ishaaq ibn Raahawayh it says “and the Throne is over the water.” The apparent meaning is that it was like that when the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) spoke these words. The apparent meaning of the hadeeth which comes before it is that the Throne was over the water before the creation of the heavens and earth, and the two hadeeth when taken together indicate that it is still over the water.

Fath al-Baari, 20/496

The meaning of the word kaana (was) in the verse refers to what happened in the past, before the creation of the heavens and the earth. From his saying in the other hadeeth, “His Throne is over the water,” it may be understood that it is still like that.

honesttalk21:
Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning): “And He it is Who has created the heavens and the earth in six Days and His Throne was on the water, that He might try you, which of you is the best in deeds” [Hood 11:7].

This is a statement by Allah, may He be glorified and exalted, that His Throne was above the water before He created the heavens and earth and what is in them. Qataadah said: Your Lord, may He be blessed and exalted, is telling you how His creation began before He created the heavens and the earth.

Tafseer al-Tabari, 15/246

Al-Bukhaari (2953) narrated from ‘Imraan ibn Husayn (may Allah be pleased with him) that some of the people of Yemen asked the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) this and said: We have come to you to ask you about this matter. He said: “There was Allah, and there was nothing else besides Him, and His Throne was over the water. He wrote all things in the Book (in heaven) and He created the heavens and the earth.”

Both the verse and the hadeeth are speaking of the beginning of creation, and say that the Throne of Allah, may He be glorified and exalted, was over the water before the creation of heaven and earth.

This does not mean that the Throne is not still over the water.

Al-Bukhaari (6869) and Muslim (1659) narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) said: “The Right Hand of Allaah is full and (its fullness) is not decreased by any spending; it is overflowing by night and day. Think of what He has spent since He created the heavens and the earth, but all this spending had not decreased what is in His Right Hand.” He said: “And his Throne is over the water, and in His other Hand is the power to bring about death, and He raises some people and brings other low.”

Al-Haafiz Ibn Hajar (may Allah have mercy on him) said: In the report of Ishaaq ibn Raahawayh it says “and the Throne is over the water.” The apparent meaning is that it was like that when the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) spoke these words. The apparent meaning of the hadeeth which comes before it is that the Throne was over the water before the creation of the heavens and earth, and the two hadeeth when taken together indicate that it is still over the water.

Fath al-Baari, 20/496

The meaning of the word kaana (was) in the verse refers to what happened in the past, before the creation of the heavens and the earth. From his saying in the other hadeeth, “His Throne is over the water,” it may be understood that it is still like that.

honesttalk21:
Tauhid is an Arabic term that translates to “monotheism” in English. In Islamic theology, توحيد refers to the belief in the oneness of God, emphasizing the absolute unity and uniqueness of Allah. It is considered the most fundamental concept in Islam and is often described as the cornerstone of the faith.

Islamic monotheism encompasses three main aspects:
(Tawhid al-Rububiyyah): This aspect of emphasizes the belief in the oneness of Allah’s lordship. It acknowledges that Allah is the sole creator, sustainer, and provider of everything in the universe.


(Tawhid al-Uluhiyyah): This aspect focuses on the worship of Allah alone. It entails dedicating all acts of worship, such as prayer, supplication, and devotion, exclusively to Allah without associating any partners with Him.


(Tawhid al-Asma’ wa’l-Sifat): This aspect relates to affirming and maintaining the uniqueness of Allah’s names and attributes. It involves understanding and acknowledging the divine qualities of Allah as described in the Quran and Sunnah.

The concept of Tawhid is central to Islamic belief and practice, guiding Muslims in their relationship with Allah and shaping their worldview based on the principles of monotheism.


Tauhid, the Islamic concept of the oneness of God, is a fundamental belief in Islam. The Quran, the holy book of Islam, contains numerous verses that emphasize the concept of Tauhid. Here are some examples of Quranic verses that support Tauhid:

Surah Al-Ikhlas (Chapter 112): This chapter is often referred to as “The Sincerity” and is considered one of the most concise expressions of Tauhid in the Quran. It states that Allah is One, without any partners, children, or equals.

Surah Al-Baqarah (Chapter 2), Verse 163: “And your god is one God. There is no deity [worthy of worship] except Him, the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful.” This verse emphasizes the oneness of God and rejects the idea of associating partners with Him.

Surah Al-An’am (Chapter 6), Verse 19: “Say, ‘What thing is greatest in testimony?’ Say, ‘Allah is witness between me and you. And this Qur’an was revealed to me that I may warn you thereby and whomever it reaches.’” This verse highlights the belief in Allah as the ultimate witness and source of guidance.

Surah Al-An’am (Chapter 6), Verse 101: “He is the Originator of the heavens and the earth. How could He have a son when He does not have a companion and He created all things? And He is, of all things, Knowing.” This verse refutes the idea of God having offspring or partners.

Surah Al-An’am (Chapter 6), Verse 164: “Say, ‘Is it other than Allah I should desire as a lord while He is the Lord of all things? And every soul earns not [blame] except against itself, and no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another. Then to your Lord is your return, and He will inform you concerning that over which you used to differ.’” This verse reinforces the belief in Allah as the ultimate authority and Lord.

Expanse2020:
Show us where you see the proof all these nonsense you spew out
Show us where Allah enter his creation like your God Yahweh the pagan idol🤣🤣🤣
Mumu show us where Quran disproof that earth is sphere


Your God was killed by mere human being, mere jew

Expanse2020:
You show proof that he got stuck rather running your mouth
You should show us proof instead of ranting

Expanse2020:
He go back to the Seventh heaven as Easy as he come down to the first heaven
Did you have a problem with that

Expanse2020:
Tell your fried to bring the Quran verse that said it
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Ọbọ gbọbọ gọkẹ̀🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Expanse2020:
All the names you post here is very few among the attribute of Allah 👌

SIRTee15:
Ohyoudidn't and honesttalk, the sound Islamist scholars here...I want U to explain this hadith.
Christians apologist use to say it but I didn't understand it until now.
Thanks TenQ.

Since we know when it's night in one hemisphere of the earth, it's day on the other half; and then vice versa.

That means Allah is forever trapped in the lowest heaven since there's forever night on earth.
It shows Allah or Muhammed or hadith writers believe in a flat earth.

Ironically this is not a problem in Christianity because we believe God is a spirit which mean he's omnipresent. He can be on all levels of heaven at the same time.


TenQ pls show me verse in the Koran that says this....U know some Muslims will simply reject it because it's hadith and claim it's weak.

Expanse2020:
Yes he comes down to first heaven every third part of night
Yes
Yes
Yes
I have answer it countless of time stop sending one 20times

Expanse2020:
How does he is it because Allah is everliveth he does not dies even for a single seconds he doesn't sleep talkless of die for a minute...
Don't compare mere human like me that sleep, sheet, pee to the almighty Allah🤣🤣🤣🤣
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Ohyoudidnt:
You really think it is a one of occurrence?

Are there people in this age that still worship Baal?

Does your Bible not say even if fundamentally wrong that Jesus says not all truly call him master?

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Ohyoudidnt:
The qibla direction for Muslims is determined based on the shortest path, known as the great-circle route, between their current location and the Kaaba in Mecca. This calculation takes into account the curvature of the Earth to ensure that Muslims are facing towards Mecca during their prayers.

If the Earth were flat, the concept of facing a specific direction towards Mecca would not be feasible for Muslims around the globe. On a flat Earth, determining a universal qibla direction would be impossible, as different locations would have different directions pointing towards Mecca. The curvature of the Earth plays a crucial role in accurately calculating the qibla direction for Muslims worldwide.


In conclusion, if the Earth were flat, it would not be possible for all Muslims to face towards Mecca during prayer due to the geographical implications of a flat surface. The spherical shape of the Earth allows for accurate qibla calculations that enable Muslims globally to orient themselves towards the Kaaba in Mecca during their worship.


NASA (National Aeronautics and Space Administration) is a reliable source for information on astronomy and Earth’s shape, supporting the understanding of how the Earth’s curvature affects directional calculations.

Expanse2020:
A 🕊️ came out and a voice came out does that mean it's voice God
Ok
Explain the verse after the pabtism Jesus himself said no one has hear God voice I. Your own statement

Ohyoudidnt:
Reference please?

The word “دَحَـهَا” in Quran 79:30 is often translated as “spread out” or “flattened” in the context of the earth. However, it does not necessarily imply a flat earth as some may claim.

Linguistic Analysis of the Word “دَحَـهَا” Da-ha-haa

The word “دَحَـهَا” is derived from the root “d-h-h”, which generally means to spread or extend something. In the context of Quran 79:30, it is used to describe the earth being spread out or extended. This does not inherently mean a flat earth, as the same root can be used to describe spreading out or extending something in a flat or curved manner.

Scientific Accuracy of Quran 79:30

The scientific accuracy of Quran 79:30 is not compromised by the use of the word “دَحَـهَا”, as it does not necessarily imply a flat earth. In fact, the verse goes on to describe the earth as being “outstretched” and the heavens being “raised high”, which can be interpreted as a reflection of the scientific understanding of the spherical shape of both the earth and the heavens.

Expanse2020:
Where did God call JESUS his son in the bible

Expanse2020:
Did Jesus ever see God

Expanse2020:
Where did Jesus tell you I am your God

Expanse2020:
I have answer your questions the remains left for you when you see truth, the truth Shall set you free

Unless your heart, eyes, ears have been blocked just as how Quran said it

Ohyoudidnt:
You need to look in your own compilation called the Bible. Look in Deuteronomy 29.

Deuteronomy 29

22 Your children who follow you in later generations and foreigners who come from distant lands will see the calamities that have fallen on the land and the diseases with which the Lord has afflicted it.
23 The whole land will be a burning waste of salt and sulfur—nothing planted, nothing sprouting, no vegetation growing on it. It will be like the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboyim, which the Lord overthrew in fierce anger.

24 All the nations will ask: “Why has the Lord done this to this land? Why this fierce, burning anger?”

25 And the answer will be: “It is because this people abandoned the covenant of the Lord, the God of their ancestors, the covenant he made with them when he brought them out of Egypt

26 They went off and worshiped other gods and bowed down to them, gods they did not know, gods he had not given them

Ohyoudidnt:
The verse Quran 29:46 emphasizes the importance of engaging with the people of the Book (Christians and Jews) in a fair and respectful manner. It teaches us the importance of maintaining a harmonious relationship with individuals from different faith backgrounds, emphasizing the commonalities we share rather than focusing on our differences.

Ohyoudidnt:
ibn Kathir shows the flaws in the view of earlier scholars who interpreted the city to be Antioch and the sender of the messengers to be 'Isa () in three points:

We have already referred to the reports from many of the Salaf that this city was Antioch, and that these three Messengers were messengers sent from the Messiah 'Isa bin Maryam, peace be upon him, as Qatadah and others stated. This is not mentioned by any of the later scholars of Tafsir besides him, and this issue must be examined from a number of angles. (The first) is that if we take this story at face value, it indicates that these men were Messengers from Allah, may He be glorified, not from the Messiah, peace be upon him, as Allah says:
(It was but one Sayhah and lo! they (all) were still)." Ibn Jarir said, "The former view is more correct, because the Message does not need to be brought by an army." The scholars of Tafsir said, "Allah sent Jibril, peace be upon him, to them, and he seized the pillars at the gate of their city, then he hurled one Sayhah upon them and lo! they (all) were still, to the last man among them, and no soul was left in any body." We have already referred to the reports from many of the Salaf that this city was Antioch, and that these three Messengers were messengers sent from the Messiah 'Isa bin Maryam, peace be upon him, as Qatadah and others stated. This is not mentioned by any of the later scholars of Tafsir besides him, and this issue must be examined from a number of angles.
The first is that if we take this story at face value, it indicates that these men were Messengers from Allah, may He be glorified, not from the Messiah, peace be upon him, as Allah says:
(When We sent to them two Messengers, they denied them both; so We reinforced them with a third, and they said: "Verily, we have been sent to you as Messengers."
up to:
("Our Lord knows that we have been sent as Messengers to you. And our duty is only to convey plainly (the Message)."
If they had been from among the Disciples, they would have said something to indicate that they had come from the Messiah, peace be upon him. And Allah knows best. Moreover, if they had been messengers sent by the Messiah, why would the people have said to them,
("You are only human beings like ourselves"
The second is that the people of Antioch did believe in the messengers sent by the Messiah to them. Antioch was the first city to believe in the Messiah, and it is one of the four cities in which there are Christian patriarchs. These cities are: Jerusalem, because it is the city of the Messiah; Antioch, because it was the first city where all of the people believed in the Messiah; Alexandria, because it was in that city that they agreed to reform the hierarchy of patriarchs, metropolitans (archbishops), bishops, priests, deacons and monks; and Rome, because it is the city of the Emperor Constantine who supported and helped to establish their religion. When he adopted Constantinople as his city, the Patriarch of Rome moved there, as has been mentioned by several historian, such as Sa'id bin Batriq and others, both People of the Book and Muslims. If we accept that, then the people of Antioch were the first to believe, but Allah tells us that the people of this town rejected HisMessengers and that He destroyed them with one Sayhah and lo! they (all) were still. And Allah knows best.
The third is that the story of Antioch and the Disciples of the Messiah happened after the Tawrah had been revealed. Abu Sa'id Al-Khudri, may Allah be pleased with him, and others among the Salaf stated that after revealing the Tawrah, Allah, may He be blessed and exalted, did not destroy an entire nation by sending a punishment upon them. Rather, He commanded the believers to fight the idolators. They mentioned this when discussing the Ayah: (And indeed We gave Musa -- after We had destroyed the generations of old -- the Scripture) (28:43).
This implies that the city mentioned in the Qur'an is a city other than Antioch, as also stated by more than one of the Salaf. Or, if we wish to keep the same name, it is possible that it is another Antioch, not the one which is well-known, for it is not known that it (the famous Antioch) was destroyed, either during Christian times or before. And Allah knows best.

From the above we may safely say that ibn Kathir quoted these reports and refuted them at the end of the story so who ever shares this information without quoting ibn Kathir's real position on the topic is falsely quoting ibn Kathir. Nevertheless one could also say that there's a difference of opinion among scholars on this topic.