₦airaland Forum

honesttalk21:
Surely مغفل will not discern Allah blesses and the angels also pray Allah blesses.

Do not detract from your post as it has been proven how Islam complies strictly with monotheism in the Tauhid.

Worship of your Jesus when viewed through the lens of strict monotheism points and agrees with polytheism. The interpretation of Jesus’ divinity and role in relation to God varies significantly with monotheistic religions.

You have tried to sneak this misplaced view of yours through this thread and have again woefully failed. Submit to the one your Jesus submits to and calls father though not in the literal sense. The one he says is greater than him and knows details he doesn't know. The one who is good.

Translate ata sa pa mi lori from Yoruba to English

So many ways to skin a cat they say!

. Have a nice day.

honesttalk21:
If your mother, fathe, sibling or clergy blesses you, is it them or the one able to bless that blesses you? Their saying of blessing you is them requesting the one able to bless to bless you.

In any case this diversion doesn't change the concordance of Quran 9:31 with the oneness of God and rejecting the worship of any other alongsice Allah

Allah AND the Angels are blessing Mohammed how?


Which one is it?
Allah first blesses, then the angels add to it
OR
The Angels first blesses (with Allah's permission), then Allah adds his blessings to it.
OR
Simultaneously, Allah and the Angels are blessing Mohammed

honesttalk21:
A nincompoop can definitely not comprehend the imperfections in translating one language into another and the need for additional words to ensure the maintenance of core meaning. Give me a concise transaction of the Yoruba phrase (excuse my errors) ata sa pa mi lori?

I am so sorry dear!
I forgot that the word ALSO does not exist in Arabic and thus Allah couldn't put it.

Can you see the wisdom in your argument?

honesttalk21:
In the Quran, the term “يُصَلُّونَ” (yusallūna) is used in several verses to convey different meanings based on the context in which it appears. Here is a breakdown of its usage in the specific verses mentioned:

Quran 4:90: “إِلَّا الَّذِينَ يَصِلُونَ إِلَىٰ قَوْمٍ بَيْنَكُمْ وَبَيْنَهُم مِّيثَاقٌ أَوْ جَاءُوكُمْ حَصِرَتْ صُدُورُهُمْ أَن يُقَاتِلُوكُم أَو يُقَاتِلُوا قَوْمَهُمْ”
In this verse, “يُصَلُّون” is translated as “seeking peace” or “making peace.” It refers to those who come to you seeking peace or have a covenant with you. The context here is about dealing with people who are not actively engaged in hostilities against you.

Quran 13:21: “وَيُسَبِّحُ لَهُ مَا فِي السَّمَاوَات والأرض وهو العزيز الحكيم”
In this verse, the term “يُسبِّح” is used, which means “glorify.” It is not the same as “يُصلّون,” but both convey acts of worship and praise towards Allah.


Quran 33:56: “إِنّ اللّه وملاًئكته يصلون على النبي يا أيها الذين آمنوا صلوا عليه وسلموا تسليما”
In this verse, the term used is “يصلون,” which means “send blessings.” It refers to Allah and His angels sending blessings upon the Prophet Muhammad. The believers are also instructed to send blessings and greetings upon him.

Does the Almighty not bless his creation or it is forbidden for him to do? Does he not provide for our needs?

What is your problem with Allah blessing his prophet or providing for mankind?
Is Allah saying the shahada or describing his nature?

Unfortunately, I am not ready to start debating you on this, rather, I will point out how silly the verse is with a simple question

Now that we have at least two entities blessing Mohammed alone, can you please explain

If Allah blesses a person, what more blessing can the Angels add to the person?

honesttalk21:
Oh! Now you agree with this despite saying ISA a.s is not Jesus or who is spoken of in this verse

Nigerian politicians engaging in inconsistencies are no where near your inconsistent confused nature.

You forgot so soon your argument of virgin birth!?
I shake my head!

AntiChristian:
You need to answer me first?

The once you respond to your silly motive, then I can answer you with the answers that match your nature!

*Is it untrue that Jesus create life just like Allah?
*Is it untrue that Jesus gave eyes to the blind?
*Is it untrue that Jesus gave life to the dead?

SoNature:
Sowore is not after anyone's money, but I cannot say the same for Deji. However, like I always say, if Sowore genuinely wants to win elections, he should start from the House of Reps or Gubernatorial.

I am happy that Fela Durotoye got the opportunity to serve in this government. I hope he gives the governorship election of his state a shot afterwards.

Nigerians won't vote for president people who haven't held important public offices in the past. It's too risky for a country with weak institutions and where people go to public offices with sinister ethnic agenda.

As for that video, don't blame the ignorant security operatives stationed at the gate. Every black man is looking for means to tell the next person he's better or more powerful than him. Hence, oppression is a way of life in Nigeria.

The best President Nigeria could ever have is probably a secondary school principal but one thing I know is the be worst president Nigeria can have is a professional politician.

On the average, politicians are the most selfish narcissistic human beings on earth with respect to governance! I know you won't believe me, but that's okay!

AntiChristian:
You said I can't use the Qur'an as evidence and i have agreed with you that i have no evidence again! You don win!

Can you show me the evidence Jesus fasted 40 days and 40 nights? Did he eat at all?
Can you mention five names and surnames of those Jesus healed?

Oya answer without reference to your Bible too!

Okay!
It seems you agree that the Qur'an is not an evidence to prove the Prophethood of Mohammed.

The next part you artfully avoided :

*Is it untrue that Jesus create life just like Allah?
*Is it untrue that Jesus gave eyes to the blind?
*Is it untrue that Jesus gave life to the dead?


If of all things, you are asking for evidence that Jesus eat Akpu or Rice or not while fasting, don't you think you are questioning your rationality?

Please falsify the questions above and I will gladly oblige you!


You can see how intelligent you sound!

Gandrova:
Point of correction, Hamas has never relied on Arabian Nations to fight the Zionist

Really,
How in the world do they hope to conquer Israel in a face to face war. I don't understand the logic

All these because you cannot explain how the Qur'an is a miracle or proof from Allah!
SMH!

AntiChristian:
You don't need to quote from the book you said is not special!

Can you show me the evidence Jesus fasted 40 days and 40 nights? Did he eat at all?
Can you mention five names and surnames of those Jesus healed?

Oya answer!

Sometimes when Muslims have nothing else to say they speak with the intelligence of toddlers.

*Is it untrue that Jesus create life just like Allah?

*Is it untrue that Jesus gave eyes to the blind?

*Is it untrue that Jesus gave life to the dead?


If of all things, you are asking for evidence that Jesus eat Akpu or Rice or not while fasting, don't you think you are questioning your rationality?

Please falsify the questions above and I will gladly oblige you!


You can see how intelligent you sound!

honesttalk21:
Characteristic ignorant rhetoric or an outright dajallun character. Go ask your Arabic teacher. I believe you started some Arabic classes as you seemed to intend a few months past.


The verb اتَّخَذُواْ (ittaKhathuwa) in Quran 9:31 is often translated as “they took” or “they have taken.” The full verse (9:31) states:

“They have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allah, and [also] the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him.”

In this context, the verb اتَّخَذُواْ (ittaKhathuwa) is used in conjunction with the noun “Messiah, the son of Mary,” implying that some people have taken Isa (Jesus) as a god or a lord besides Allah. This interpretation is supported by the broader context of the Quran, which emphasizes the oneness of Allah and prohibits the worship of any other deities.

Emboldened doesn't say whatever they associate with them or does it?

See how you needed to insert the word ALSO in order to force Allah to agree with the consensus of your scholars?
SMH!

Your scholars don't have shame!
It seems Allah is not good with speaking clear Arabic that has to be adjusted by Islamic Scholars

If the words of Allah is not helped, how can it say what yoilu Muslims want it to say?

honesttalk21:
Is Jesus even in your faulty trinity is a distinct entity but claimed equal of God almighty isn't it?

Why does a coequal god need to pray to God to become elevated to a God status?
John17:1“Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you.
2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him.
3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

At the end of 1 Corinthians 15:24-28, your Jesus submits to God with whom he is already co-equal?
1 Corinthians 15:
24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”[a] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.
28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

In numerous ancient myths and legends from various cultures around the world, there are recurring themes of gods or divine beings being subjected to a higher power or authority. These stories often involve cycles of rise and fall, death and rebirth, and transformation. The concept of gods being subject to a higher power challenges the traditional notion of divine beings as omnipotent and all-powerful, instead presenting them as part of a larger cosmic order that governs their actions and destiny.

I guess you can then explain how the Taoheed-Allah prays (is it to himself)

1. Qur'an 33:56
Indeed, Allah and his angels pray to (or for) the Prophet ۚ O you who believe, pray for him and give peace
Who is Allah praying to:himself?


Secondly,
You can then explain how the Taoheed-Allah recites the shahada (is it to himself)

2. Can you tell me why Allah recites the shahada in Quran 2:255?

Who is Allah testifying to?

honesttalk21:
Jesus's miraculous birth to a virgin mother bears a striking resemblance to the birth stories of ancient mythological figures such as Horus, Mithras, and Krishna. Additionally, the virgin birth, death, and resurrection motif that is central to the story of Jesus can be found in the mythologies of countless ancient civilizations.

Jesus mentioned not Yeshua or ISA a.s 😁

Unfortunately, this you wrotebwas supported by Allah himself :Are you denying Allah?

Qur'an 3:47
She said: 'O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man has ever touched me? ' The angel answered: Thus shall it be. Allah creates whatever He wills.

Is this verse a lie?

honesttalk21:
Enjoy your false fantasy.

It is clearly shown from the preceding verse the wrong in taking others by first stating what is impossible and a huge show of insolence that Allah the almighty begets a child which he never and can never.

Then excessive reverence of the spiritual leaders or prophets to a point of taking them as co; equal or even higher than the almighty. Impossibles. None can be or is comparable to the almighty Allah.


This is truly the essence of TAUHID. Belief in a unique, indivisible, omnipotent, omniscient creator and sustainer of all that exists.



Enjoy your delusions and if you pretend not to know now you will come to know for certain regardless of whether it is or isn't beneficial to you at the time you come to accept the knowing.


Very good illustration of a common mistake in the compilation you call Bible with respect to the age of Ahazia in when he became King. Is it truly 22 or 42?

Or is it the somersaults to fit a fictitious crucifixion into 3 days and 3 nights saying Jesus was crucified on Wednesday or Thursday not Friday as is repeatedly stated and agreed to by majority.

Emancipate yourself from your confusion.

The implication of the Taoheed is serious because it removes the divinity of Allah
We have established that Allah cannot be In heaven and on earth at the same time.

We have established that if Allah comes to the earth every day at the third part of the night, then he is perpetually trapped here on earth and his throne above the waters is empty.

We have also established that the Qur'an 9:31 is a Slip of pen (an error) that Muslims are struggling to correct.

This is okay for now till another time

honesttalk21:
Let's take this appropriately.

Quran 9:30 says:
"The Jews say: Ezra is the son of God; and the Christians say: The Messiah, Jesus, is the son of God. That is the utterance of their mouths, for which they have no support, nay, imitating the utterances of those who disbelieved before [them], from among their forefathers, mimicking them. God assail, curse, them! How they are deviated!, turned away from the truth, despite the proofs having been established."

Quran 9:31
"They have taken their rabbis, the scholars among the Jews, and their monks, the devout among the Christians, as lords beside God — following them in making lawful what God has made unlawful and making unlawful what He has made lawful — and the Messiah, son of Mary, when they were not commanded, in the Torah and the Gospel, except to worship One God: there is no god except Him; glory be to Him, as an affirmation of His transcendence [high], above what they associate [with Him]."

Does verse 31 further elaborate on verse 30 or continue what it says?

Then Quran 9:32 nails it in saying

"They desire to extinguish God’s light, His Law and His proofs, with their tongues, with what they say about Him; and God refuses but to perfect, to make manifest, His light, even though the disbelievers be averse, to this."

I don't care what you intend to say, I care about what was said.

Again:
Is it untrue that what was intended was the statement.
Qur'an 9:31 :
"They took their Rabbis , and Monks AND the Messiah the son of Mary as Lords other than Allah?
أَخَذُوا أَحْبَارَهُمْ وَرُهْبَانَهُمْ وَالْمَسِيحَ ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ أَرْبَابًا مِن دُونِ اللَّهِ

Is this not what the intent of the verse is?


An error or mistake is an error anywhere you take it and it has nothing to do with the intention!

If I wanted to write
4x10=40
but wrote
4x1=40

Does it mean that 4x1 is NOW equal to 40! ?

This had been your argument all along!
Your intention may be clear, but there is an error in your submission!
QED!

honesttalk21:
Translate لَّآ إِلَٰهَ إِلَّا هُوَ ۚ سُبۡحَٰنَهُۥ عَمَّا يُشۡرِكُونَ

Does it form part of the verse?

It means :
"There is no deity except Him; Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him."

Yes!
The more reason to believe that the first sentence or first part of Quran 9:31 is a mistake!

honesttalk21:
The verse in question, Quran 9:31, is as follows:

“They have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allah, and [also] the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him.” (Quran 9:31)

This verse addresses the issue of shirk, which is the sin of associating partners with Allah in worship. In this context, it specifically mentions how some people have elevated their scholars and monks to a status similar to that of Allah, along with Jesus (Isa), the son of Maryam (Mary). The verse emphasizes the importance of Tawhid, which is the Islamic concept of monotheism and the belief in the oneness of Allah.

Tauhid is a fundamental concept in Islam that refers to the oneness of Allah in His lordship, names and attributes, and worship. It is the central theme of Islamic theology and belief. The concept of Tauhid encompasses the belief that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and that He has no partners or associates. Muslims are required to worship Allah alone, without associating any partners with Him.

In interpreting Quran 9:31, we see the importance of upholding Tauhid and avoiding shirk. The verse warns against elevating anyone, including scholars, monks, or even prophets like Jesus, to a status equal to or above Allah. It underscores the exclusive right of Allah to be worshipped and obeyed without any partners.

Qur'an 9:31 doesn't say the above even if this is the position and doctrine of Islam. This had been my point.

honesttalk21:
Isn't the verse 9:31 further emphasying Tauhid?

No!
If it wasn't an error, it was saying that the Christians and Jews should take as Lord only Allah and the Messiah instead of their monks and Rabbis!

It actually reinforces the notion of the Christians that Allah is the Messiah .

Quran 5:17
They indeed have disbelieved who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. Say: Who then can do aught against Allah, if He had willed to destroy the Messiah son of Mary, and his mother and everyone on earth? Allah's is the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them. He createth what He will. And Allah is Able to do all things.

honesttalk21:
I should have specified that statement is in reference to within the text of the Qur'an.

Can we stop now?

The topic was about the Inherent fundermental weakness of the Taoheed not about errors in the Qur'an!

honesttalk21:
In Islamic theology, Quran 9:31 is interpreted as a condemnation of associating partners with Allah, known as shirk. This verse specifically mentions that some people have taken their scholars, monks, and Isa as lords besides Allah. This behavior is considered a grave sin in Islam, as it violates the fundamental principle of Tawhid (the oneness of Allah). The verse emphasizes that these groups were not commanded to worship anyone except Allah and that there is no deity worthy of worship other than Him.

I agree with you that is exactly why Qur'an 9:31 is an error


Mohammed intended to say:

Qur'an 9:31 :
"They took their Rabbis , and Monks AND the Messiah the son of Mary as Lords other than Allah?
أَخَذُوا أَحْبَارَهُمْ وَرُهْبَانَهُمْ وَالْمَسِيحَ ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ أَرْبَابًا مِن دُونِ اللَّهِ

honesttalk21:
The verb اتَّخَذُواْ (ittaKhathuwa) in Quran 9:31 is often translated as “they took” or “they have taken.” The full verse (9:31) states:

“They have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allah, and [also] the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him.”

In this context, the verb اتَّخَذُواْ (ittaKhathuwa) is used in conjunction with the noun “Messiah, the son of Mary,” implying that some people have taken Isa (Jesus) as a god or a lord besides Allah. This interpretation is supported by the broader context of the Quran, which emphasizes the oneness of Allah and prohibits the worship of any other deities.

The verb اتَّخَذُواْ (ittaKhathuwa) is a form III verb in Arabic, which generally conveys the meaning of “taking” or “choosing.” In this specific instance, it is used in conjunction with the preposition بِ (bi), which can indicate “with” or “as.” Thus, the phrase الْمَسِيحُ ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ (al-masihu [b]ib[/b]nu maryama) can be translated as “with the Messiah, the son of Mary” or “as the Messiah, the son of Mary.” The use of this preposition reinforces the idea that some people are taking Isa as a god or lord alongside Allah.


In Islamic theology, Quran 9:31 is interpreted as a condemnation of associating partners with Allah, known as shirk. This verse specifically mentions that some people have taken their scholars, monks, and Isa as lords besides Allah. This behavior is considered a grave sin in Islam, as it violates the fundamental principle of Tawhid (the oneness of Allah). The verse emphasizes that these groups were not commanded to worship anyone except Allah and that there is no deity worthy of worship other than Him.

Quran 9:31 is an obvious error that entered the Qur'an and ALL your scholars and translators of the Qur'an are struggling to correct it.

I checked up to 32 English translations and their stories didn't agree
While stone inserted words like ALSO (which is not in the Qur'an)
Others swapped the position of the Messiah to fit into their preferred Narrative.
Others just wrote what they wanted as how they wanted it to appear.


Unfortunately, you and I know that this is a mistake in the Qur'an and Muslim scholars are trying their best to correct it

11doubledee:
Lol 😂 😂 😂
They will have to wait till eternity for that to come to fruition.
Isreal as well as Palestine have all come to stay.
All both sides have to do is make comprises and move on.
Because for isreal not exist, the middle east will never remain the same again.
This is the 21st century for goodness sake.

Hamas was banking on the Arab world uniting to fight Israel, unfortunately, it didn't happen like they hoped

honesttalk21:
Have we considered where this or similar occurs elsewhere?

Yes, we did.

Have you forgotten that you translated for me

أَخَذُوا مُعَلِّمِيهِمْ وَأُسْاتِذَتِهِمْ كَمُرَشِّدِينَ بِجَانِبِ عَلِيٍّ وَالْمَلِكِ، ابْنِ مَرْيَمَ

honesttalk21:
Yes I did a research. Did I attribute it to any other?
Which scholar says this is all I ask?

Ordinary Arabic spoken by Allah and you need the consent of your scholars to validate it?

Do you see why I said that Muslims don't believe in Allah and Mohammed. They believe in the consensus agreement of their scholars even when it is an obvious lie.


Is this what your scholars agree about?

Qur'an 9:31 :
"They took their Rabbis , and Monks AND the Messiah the son of Mary as Lords other than Allah?
أَخَذُوا أَحْبَارَهُمْ وَرُهْبَانَهُمْ وَالْمَسِيحَ ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ أَرْبَابًا مِن دُونِ اللَّهِ

AntiChristian:
Bring evidence and you are still quoting the book that you said can't be used as evidence again!
Enough with your Galatians 3:1 attitude!

Can you show me the evidence Jesus fasted 40 days and 40 nights? Did he eat at all?
Can you mention five names and surnames of those Jesus healed?

Oya answer!

What is special with your book to be used as evidence.

Allah has already answered you about Jesus: He is even a Co-Creator of life.



Qur'an 3:49
And will make him a messenger unto the Children of Israel, (saying): Lo! I come unto you with a sign from your Lord. Lo! I fashion for you out of clay the likeness of a bird, and I breathe into it and it is a bird , by Allah's leave. I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I raise the dead, by Allah's leave. And I announce unto you what ye eat and what ye store up in your houses. Lo! herein verily is a portent for you, if ye are to be believers.

Was Allah telling lies?

AntiChristian:
Yes, i am.
The evidence is in the Qur'an and Muhammad's legacy in his country Saudi Arabia!

How can a book be an evidence?
What makes this book extraordinary?
Which other prophet in history has book validating Prophethood?

AntiChristian:
Abeg what did Holy spirit just confused you to type? Did you even read the sentence?

Can you show me the evidence Jesus fasted 40 days and 40 nights? Did he eat at all?
Can you mention five names and surnames of those Jesus healed?

Unfortunately for you, Allah says that Jesus did much more difficult signs than not eating or even healing.

Did you know that Jesus created LIFE exactly like Allah created Adam?

It seems you don't know

Qur'an 3:49
And will make him a messenger unto the Children of Israel, (saying): Lo! I come unto you with a sign from your Lord. Lo! I fashion for you out of clay the likeness of a bird, and I breathe into it and it is a bird , by Allah's leave. I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I raise the dead, by Allah's leave. And I announce unto you what ye eat and what ye store up in your houses. Lo! herein verily is a portent for you, if ye are to be believers.

Was Allah telling lies?

sammymax:
I seriously need advice as I really don't know what the right or best thing to do at this time. Please elders in the house be kind enough to suggest what I could do.

I did not think something like this can still happen in this era but this is what I have to deal with. So my mum flat out told me she does not like the girl I took home because she is not fine. About 3years ago when we went home together she told me this but I just disregarded it like when I'm ready she won't have a choice but to accept her as she is. To be honest she is not fine at all but she gives me peace of mind which I feel is the ultimate.

She was involved in an accident with my dad last year and we lost my dad in the process. During the burial I went home with my babe again and my mum still made her displeasure with the girl show.

The thing now is that I went home again to see how she is doing and she called to speak me again after stating that I had disobeyed her by not breaking up with the girl she said is still not having her and if I insist she is the one I should count her out of the marriage. She can never come visiting or even call her. She will not attend the wedding. Now I am 32 and she is 30

How do I navigate this situation. I plead for good advice. Have you been in a similar situation how did you handle it.

If this is true, you have an mature mummy!

Tell her I said so!

Is she herself even beautiful?

99 % of women are average. Makeup and packaging is what makes the difference for them.

Have you seen Tiwa Savage without makeup?

AntiChristian:
I have a job o and even i don't have time for pointless arguments!

Which school did Paul attend? Who were his teachers? And why did Jesus choose mostly illiterates?

And you are quoting Luke's Acts again who is a historian writing historical accounts!





From Allah by inspiration!

Are you sure it was Allah to told Mohammed ?
What is your evidence?

Mohammed said it was one spirit that he doesn't even know it's name unto prophet Waraqa informed him that the Spirit was Jibril!

LOL!

11doubledee:
That shows their true intentions.
I'm very sure this minister was celebrating on October 7, 2023.
They all talk as if isreal just woke one day and decide to attack them without no provocation.
That's the real pretence and manipulation there.
That's the reason they keep making excuses for Islamic terrorists in the north by giving Amnesty and stipends while unemployed graduates have never gotten a dime

The objective of Hamas was to chase Israel out of the whole of the state of Israel or better still a complete annihilation of the Jews, only then would there be peace.

Every Palestinian is looking forward to the fulfilment of this hadith

SahihMuslim 2922
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) as saying:
The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, oh the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.

honesttalk21:
Who's translation is this? Do you no longer know what is meant by a reference?

You did a translation for me remember!?

Only that it wasn't the Qur'an, thus you could speak the truth. But immediately it's the Qur'an, you must appeal to the consensus of your scholars.

This is not how it is done sir.

honesttalk21:
There's no reinterpretation here except yours speaking so authoritatively about a language you know too little of primarily because it challenges the root of your belief.

Do you say that Arabic doesn't have a complex verb and noun conjugation?

Did we not look at a similar non Qur'an sentence?
How come this didn't require some elusive complex verb and noun conjugation?

You gat no excuse my brother. Language shouldn't change just because we are talking the Quran

honesttalk21:
Provide reference. This is at variance to translations approved.

We have looked at the Arabic text haven't we?

The issue is NOT how your scholars want to re-interprete the verse but what Allah is truly saying

honesttalk21:
Your reasoning from English language and how sentences are arranged is what limits.
You see these translations of the meaning and not literal translation you rely on.

No sir.
This was why I gave you a neutral Arabic sentence to translate.
أَخَذُوا مُعَلِّمِيهِمْ وَأُسْاتِذَتِهِمْ كَمُرَشِّدِينَ بِجَانِبِ عَلِيٍّ وَالْمَلِكِ، ابْنِ مَرْيَمَ

And even your translation wasn't too different from mine as.

The translation :
"They took their teachers and professors as mentors other than Ali and the king, the son of Mary."
Here is your translation (modified)
They took their teachers and professors as guides alongside Ali and the king, the son of Mary

This I have repeatedly and unbiasly said that with the Qur'an and the translation should be

Qur'an 9:31
They (Jews and Christians) have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides (instead of/alongside) Allah and the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him.

honesttalk21:
9.31 Abbas - Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs
(They have taken as lords beside Allah) i.e. they obeyed them in acts of disobedience (their rabbis) the men of knowledge among the Jews (and their monks) who reside in monasteries (and the Messiah son of Mary) and they have taken the Messiah son of Mary as lord, (when they were bidden) in all Scriptures (to worship) to confess the divine Oneness of (only One God. There is no god save Him. Be He glorified from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him)!) Allah exalts Himself above all that which they ascribe to Him.
9.31 Jalal - Al-Jalalayn
They have taken their rabbis, the scholars among the Jews, and their monks, the devout among the Christians, as lords beside God — following them in making lawful what God has made unlawful and making unlawful what He has made lawful — and the Messiah, son of Mary, when they were not commanded, in the Torah and the Gospel, except to worship One God: there is no god except Him; glory be to Him, as an affirmation of His transcendence [high], above what they associate [with Him].


Adi ibn Hatim narrated: "I came to the Prophet (ﷺ) while I had a cross of gold around my neck. He said: 'O Adi! Remove this idol from yourself!’ And I heard him reciting from Surah Bara’ah: They took their rabbis and monks as lords besides Allah (9:31). He said: ‘As for them, they did not worship them, but when they made something lawful for them, they considered it lawful, and when they made something unlawful for them, they considered it unlawful.’" (Jami’ At-Tirmidhi)

The narrator Adi ibn Hatim is narrating the story about himself. Imam Tirmidhi considered this hadith Ghareeb, and Darussalam grades it as Daeef.

This version is shorter since there is no initial questioning by Adi ibn Hatim. The longer one is quoted in Ibn Kathir’s tafsir for the verse 19:31.

Imam Ahmad, At-Tirmidhi and Ibn Jarir At-Tabari recorded a Hadith via several chains of narration, from Adi bin Hatim, may Allah be pleased with him, who became Christian during the time of Jahiliyyah. When the call of the Messenger of Allah reached his area, Adi ran away to Ash-Sham, and his sister and several of his people were captured. The Messenger of Allah freed his sister and gave her gifts. So she went to her brother and encouraged him to become Muslim and to go to the Messenger of Allah .

Adi, who was one of the chiefs of his people (the tribe of Tai’) and whose father, Hatim At-Ta’i, was known for his generosity, went to Al-Madinah. When the people announced his arrival, Adi went to the Messenger of Allah wearing a silver cross around his neck. The Messenger of Allah recited this Ayah; (They took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allah).

Adi commented, "I said, `They did not worship them.’"

The Prophet said, "Yes they did. They (rabbis and monks) prohibited the allowed for them (Christians and Jews) and allowed the prohibited, and they obeyed them. This is how they worshipped them."

The Messenger of Allah said to Adi, "O Adi what do you say Did you run away (to Ash-Sham) so that ‘Allahu Akbar’ (Allah is the Great) is not pronounced Do you know of anything greater than Allah What made you run away Did you run away so that `La ilaha illallah’ is not pronounced Do you know of any deity worthy of worship except Allah."

The Messenger invited Adi to embrace Islam, and he embraced Islam and pronounced the Testimony of Truth. The face of the Messenger of Allah beamed with pleasure and he said to Adi, "Verily, the Jews have earned the anger (of Allah) and the Christians are misguided." (Tafsir Ibn Kathir for 9:31)

Are you agreeing that your scholars are saying that the verse actually mean :

Qur'an 9:31 :
"They took their Rabbis , and Monks AND the Messiah the son of Mary as Lords other than Allah?
أَخَذُوا أَحْبَارَهُمْ وَرُهْبَانَهُمْ وَالْمَسِيحَ ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ أَرْبَابًا مِن دُونِ اللَّهِ

Why is no one asking Hamas to return the hostages so that peace can start?

AntiChristian:
You defy reasonable logic in this regard!



Muhammad and Jesus are not contemporaries!
So you are only fooling yourself with this comment.

To write over 10 books about someone you did not meet you need to state your authority!
Even Paul wrote more that all the other disciples put together!

Were they the ones feeding him the stories they couldn't write?

See Paul's statements!

I say this as a concession, not as a command. 1 Corinthians 7:6

1 Corinthians 7:10
To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband.

1 Corinthians 7:12
To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If a brother has an unbelieving wife and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her.

1 Corinthians 7:25
Now about virgins, I have no command from the Lord, but I give a judgment as one who by the Lord's mercy is trustworthy.

Why can't all the other disciples do same? Write their opinions for you to follow and mix them with anything they can call scriptures from the Holy Spirit?

Na person wey get time to waste dey answer you continously!

You own argument no dey end!
Argument yesterday, today and forever na your own!
I no fit waste time there!

I can understand!
Any time you are flogged with reason and truth , you flee!

Only ignorant people do not know that Paul was highly educated and most of the Apostles were not as educated and they have to teach the church by being physically present. Moreover, Paul was commissioned by the Apostles to preach to the Gentile churches.

Acts 15:23-25:
"This is the letter they took along with them: "From: The apostles, elders and brothers at Jerusalem. "To: The Gentile brothers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia. Greetings! "We understand that some believers from here have upset you and questioned your salvation, but they had no such instructions from us. So it seemed wise to us, having unanimously agreed on our decision, to send to you these two official representatives, along with our beloved Barnabas and Paul."


Now, tell me where Mohammed got his information about Jesus for him to claim fictional stories about Him?

honesttalk21:
As for the misguidance of Christians over `Isa, it is obvious. This is why Allah declared both the Jews and them to be liars,

ذلِكَ قَوْلُهُم بِأَفْوَهِهِمْ

(That is their saying with their mouths), but they have no proof that supports their claim, other than lies and fabrications,

يُضَـهِئُونَ

(resembling), imitating,

قَوْلَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ مِن قَبْلُ

(the saying of those who disbelieved aforetime.) They imitate the previous nations who fell into misguidance just as Jews and Christians did,

قَـتَلَهُمُ اللَّهُ

(may Allah fight them), Ibn `Abbas said, "May Allah curse them."

أَنَّى يُؤْفَكُونَ

(how they are deluded away from the truth!) how they deviate from truth, when it is apparent, exchanging it for misguidance. Allah said next,

اتَّخَذُواْ أَحْبَـرَهُمْ وَرُهْبَـنَهُمْ أَرْبَاباً مِّن دُونِ اللَّهِ وَالْمَسِيحَ ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ

(They took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allah...) that the Christians and Jews obeyed their monks and rabbis in whatever they allowed or prohibited for them. This is why Allah said,

وَمَآ أُمِرُواْ إِلاَّ لِيَعْبُدُواْ إِلَـهاً وَحِداً

(while they were commanded to worship none but One God), Who, whatever He renders prohibited is the prohibited, whatever He allowed is the allowed, whatever He legislates, is to be the law followed, and whatever He decides is to be adhered to;

لاَّ إِلَـهَ إِلاَّ هُوَ سُبْحَـنَهُ عَمَّا يُشْرِكُونَ

(None has the right to be worshipped but He. Hallowed be He above what they associate (with Him).) Meaning, exalted, sanctified, hallowed above partners, equals, aids, rivals or children, there is no deity or Lord worthy of worship except Him.

You are just repeating yourself and is different from what Allah said in the Qur'an.

It's either a mistake or an error.


Most likely, Allah intended to say:

Qur'an 9:31 :
"They took their Rabbis , and Monks AND the Messiah the son of Mary as Lords other than Allah.
أَخَذُوا أَحْبَارَهُمْ وَرُهْبَانَهُمْ وَالْمَسِيحَ ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ أَرْبَابًا مِن دُونِ اللَّهِ


What do I know?
The Quran is perfectly preserved!


Please let's close this chapter till another time.

Isn't it?