₦airaland Forum

budaatum:
Empathy, makes it possible.

The phrase "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us" is to religiously cement it in humans. Below touches the surface, but it's been discovered to go a lot deeper than that.

You are one a different wave lentght What you talked of your mother is something other people have experienced .

And it has scientific explanation already . You search for it yourself

budaatum:
Hear yourself, please. Does one drop little drop of subjectivity not deobjectify enough for you?

You are making me wonder if you know what the word means.

You don't know what I want to explain . I even said is not my conclusion .

No two persons can have exactly the same subjective experience , ,not to talk of millions of people from different bsckgrounds .

Wait untill you see the evidence of what I present . It's not what you think .

budaatum:
Triple, a person's consciousness, as in what a person is aware of and notices, is very wholly subjective to that person. What they are aware or conscious of is what the subject unconsciously or consciously chooses to be conscious or aware of, and they approach it with their own subjective ability to be conscious or aware of things, and their subjective ability to present their subjective consciousness for the consideration of subjective others. Can you see how subjective it is?

Let me go a step further. Even your own consciousness is very subjective to yourself and there's mostly no objectivity in it whatsoever. You are not even conscious of all that your mind is conscious of, and you can not know what a person is conscious of unless they tell you or you brainwashed them or you read minds.



First, see how you've had almost a month of deriding someone else's subjective naration of their own subjective nde and obe and it turns out you have your own subjective experience that you promise to share but of course you can not accept that your subjective brain is the cause and must find some other cause not subject to you that you can subjectively claim is objective. Except we'd say, "show us if you dared".

That the rest? Beneath the level of things I consciously choose to consider.

Don't jump into conclusion yet . NDE is not wholly subjective if you actually had it. I will explain that tomorrow . It's not my conclusion , but what scientist investigating the phenomenon have declared .

Other kind of OBE may be subjective ,

budaatum:
I so love how the unconscious and consciousness works. When I was much younger my mama will have headache and my head will be hurting. She broke her leg in Lagos and I was limping in Ibadan, and God help me when she was pregnant 5 times. That's special relationships for you.

Triple, It is not unusual to know the cooking or perfume worn by one one has "some special relationship with".

Are you sure you read what I explained and the explanation I ask you to give to it based on your knowledge of how the human brain works ?

I m saying ,even though not unusual , current mind theory says it's not possible to have that kind of experience .

What makes it possible then. ?

budaatum:
But this study does not show nor indicate that consciousness separates from the body, nor do I think it even attempts to.

Consciousness is subjective in that it belongs to a subject whom it belongs to. It is not something we share. I have my subjective consciousness and you have your subjective consciousness, and thankfully we have words with which we convey the subjective consciousness of our experiences and understandings and knowledge to one another.

So how do you separate subjective consciousness from the subjects body? That's not to say it's not possible. In fact, we in a sense already do when we record media and write out the products of our consciousness in books though we don't mind read the read yet.

Possible? Anything is possible till it's not.

Consciousness is not wholly subjective . It's made up of both the subjective and objective parts . Not much is known about the former since it has not been localised to any part of the brain ,and its why there have been lots of speculations about it's origin .


Is it what people call the soul or subconscious mind ?

Most neuroscientist dismiss the existence of the subconscious mind . They say there's no evidence for it . That the brain is responsible for everything we perceive .

But the brain has its limitations.it cannot make you perceive anything .beyond a certain point , it's absolute threshold .


My own experiences ,some of it ,which I promise to share later will not make me accept that my brain is the cause . I'm not the only one in this kind of situation .


So what do you want a person like me to do then ?

To deny who I am and how my consciousness operates because scientist are currently
saying it's not possible for anybody to have a mind or brain that make one have those kind of experiences ?

Read this below and explain the cause .

You are on a call to a friend who resides in another country , and suddenly you start to perceive the perfume the person is wearing . You mention it to them , and they confirm you are correct .

As the call progresses you start to perceive the smell of what your friend is cooking in the kitchen . He also confirms it.

If you keep having this kind of experience each time you are on a call with anyone else , then tell me ,how can you explain it using your knowledge of how the human brain works .

Please don't mention you guessed it right each time . That's surely not possible .

Or coincidence. . No way .

What I describe above is a type of OBE that some persons experience all the time ,but won't open up to discuss it with others except you have some special relationship with them ..
OBE doesn't mean you must see yourself outside your physical body before you know you have experience it. Not everyone has the type where they see themselves outside their bodies

Some religious people who experience it assume it's a gift from God and quickly open a church to start prophesying to other people .

Yea, some people actually have this sort of experience ,but some pretend to have it when they don't .

LordReed:
You misunderstand my point with the sarcasm. The point is I think there is no discounting that these people have experiences, we all have experiences. These people see what is obviously familiar to them in waking life during bouts of unconsciousness and interpret those experiences as something important moreso than dreams. I on the other hand do not think their experiences carry any more weight than that of a dream.

Ok. I get you .

But there's something you are downplaying .

NDE for instance ,is very significant because if it's proven that the brain is not creating the experience, just like our dreams ,then it would mean only one thing : consciousness can separate from the physical body either at death or any other time .

Let me borrow your own expression to declare this clearly ; current evidences is pointing to the fact that consciousness may not have emerged from matter or the brain after all, and may continue to exist after the death of the physical body .

So why don't you think that's special?

LordReed:
That's a link to a blog. Here is the link to the actual study:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25301715/

That was an error on my part . It should have read a blog with a summary of the main study.

It doesn't say that it is definitely not a hallucination or entirely a subjective experience. In fact the author says:

I said those based on the snippets of reports from the second phase not yet fully released , and interviews granted by head of the research team . The study has entered its second phase and you should expect they must have made further observation to know better . I will share the link to the blog where it's currently being discussed and that of the interview .

While the low incidence (2%) of explicit recall of VA impaired our ability to use images to objectively examine the validity of specific claims associated with VA, nonetheless our verified case of VA suggests conscious awareness may occur beyond the first 20–30 s after CA (when some residual brain electrical activity may occur) while providing a quantifiable time
period of awareness after the brain ordinarily reaches an isolectric
state.

Only one verifiable incidence out of 2060. This is not indicative of any objective afterlife IMO.

You didn't read me very well . I did mentioned it's not indicative of any after life . Go back to what you have responded to . You will see where I said so.

In the second phase they now have explanations why only one person .. They said it's due to biological and physiological reasons . You know must people dream and wake up not remembering anything .

In the first phase, if you go back to read it again . It was actually two people who were willing to share their experience , but one was so sick he opted out from being interviewed .

Even if it's one ,I think it's hugely significant if we consider the nature of what is being researched . Nobody within the scientific community thinks it's ever possible for consciousness to separate from the human body .

If it is announced that scientist have finally created a single AI with sentience , I m sure you would have celebrated it and draw my attention to it, and not downplay it that it's just one out of thousands .

However nothing is conclusive yet so no need to jump into any conclusions. The reaserch is still at the elementary stage . They will continue to research untill we understand better .

These are my thoughts on the NDE of the atheist .

I watched the video to the end, and enjoyed watching it. I like the narrators sense of humor . He really knows how to make one laugh so one watch till the end.

If the man's story is true ,then the Jesus he encountered is not the one in the Bible . This one is not judgemental or discriminatory against anyone , meaning that what is contained in the Bible about God and Jesus is not true . The man at one point even imagined a female breast in the presence of Jesus to test if he ,Jesus ,could actually read his thoughts . Jesus was not angry and smiled lovingly back at him after he thought of the big breast .Lol

In the early part of the narration ,the narrator said a short prayer while in hell, and the Jesus in the story immediately appeared to take him away from there straight to a better place that appears like heaven . This experience runs contrary to what most christians would expect to happen to such a person . An atheist or anyone else who has denied Jesus while on earth is not expected to deserve such response from him , but the narrator was saved despite the kind of life he lived . According to him ,he hates anything that has to do with God and religion ,and last prayed when he was a kid . He only remembered to say 'the Lord is my shepherd ' in hell , and that was all it took to make Jesus appear to him ,and take him away from there

I think the op is obviously disappointed about this ,and I suspect it's the reason he doesn't want to accept the man s full story as true ,but only choose the part that talks about hell and the after life experience itself in order to preach his church doctrine indirectly while denying that's not his intention

.If the atheist story proves an after life according to TenQ, why is he rejecting the other part which proves çhristians like himself are worshipping a false Jesus and God that exist in the Bible .

Well ,what did I make of all of the story?

Before I speak on that ,I would like to address something I have observed on this thread .

I'm unable to find anyone here who has enough understanding of the topic of OBE or NDE . Most people assume they do when they don't .

This is not to desparage anyone, so no one should take it personal .

But Budatum is still posting his own theoretical understanding of NDE from another thread , without realising he is very far from it.

Lordreed and some others have also responded in almost the same way. The joke of seeing TenQ logging into Nairaland has made me understand his own interpretation of the phenomenom: To him people are just making things up and believing it .

Some persons are aware that the limitations of the human language sometimes makes it difficult to make full sense if what we read or have explained to us by others.

Sometimes ,If what we read is not something we have
directly experienced ourselves ,no amount of reading or explanation will make us understand it exactly the way it should be understood .

For instance , if you have never had sex before or masturbated , no amount of reading , watching YouTube videos or any kind of explanation will make you know how it feels directly to experience an orgasm. You will only be making conjectures in your head of what it feels like which are far from the real thing . It's only when you directly experienced it yourself ,you then exclaim 'oh ! Is this how it really feels ! I didn't know '

Most of the things explained by some scientist on the phenomenon found on the net are inaccurate or not complete info .But of course , It's to be expected . They don't teach OBE in science classes and the scientist themselves don't have a direct experience of what they are trying to explain. So what are they relying on for their speculations ? Nothing reasonable ,and not even a direct experience of it . People don't bother to question what get read as long it's coming from an expert they just swallow it unthinkingly and regurgicate it anywhere .

But there is an ongoing research by scientist in order to unravel OBE so we understand what is really causing it from a scientific point of view ,backed with facts and evidence and not conjectures or personal opinion of an expert scientist somewhere .


Skepticks , atheist in particular , erroneously reject OBE with the assumption it's a religous claim just because some uninformed religious groups like to use it as a validation of heaven ,hell or God . Everyone has had an OBE, if you have not had it then ,you are just a soulless bot ,and not human .

Not every OBE is dramatic like the NDEs we read or watch on YouTube .Some occur so subtly that you don't even know you just experienced it. NDE is a type of OBE, that's triggered differently . Most people are confused about the two terms here and have been using it anyhow not caring if they are making sense or not .



In any case ,I found a solution to explain this in a way to make it very clear for anyone following who is interested in what I have to say concerning the phenomenon. Even thought everything I will explain is not fully supported by science ,it doesn't mean they not true . You are free to reject or accept . I'm not here to convince anyone one to join me to worship anything , or join any religion .

I don't claim to know it all ,but I think I know enough about the subject since I started having spontaneous OBE of a different kind from an early age ,without first reading about it anywhere untill I got to understand why I was having them .

Those experiences were the catalyst which actually pushed me into looking for answers everywhere .Some of the things I learnt on the way ,( I'm still learning and still sceptical ) and a few of my personal experiences, as illustration will be used in my explanations that I will present tomorrow .




Thank you

TenQ:
LordReed, Budaatum, UnknownUnknown, triplechoice and Co.

See your people!
This is exactly what happens when humans decide to set their own standard of morality outside God.

You don't have any moral right to criticise this behaviour, do you!?

Is something wrong with you ?

FYI, I'm not atheist, so please stop directing your hatred for atheist towards me.

JohnBullMySon:
Ok let me tell you how this things work in reality. Hardly is there any school in the US is UK that sits to teach these things to young children. There's simply no school that teaches young children sex acts.

These are books that are mostly targeted at late teens but are kept in school libraries where kindergarten may be able to access technically.

Conservatives will find these books in the libraries and begin to spin silly narratives. Their number one weapon is fear mongering, telling us that things are getting destroyed while in reality nothing ever gets destroyed. The guy that told us that he's the only one who can save America is the same person that almost destroyed the Independence of American institutions.

Where's the evidence they don't teach them yet in schools ?

The source from which the Op got it from says they are .

A child is not an adult . It seems some persons no longer know the difference ,or know, but pretend not to know for the agenda they are pursuing .


There are certain topics children should not be taught since they cannot handle it at that age.

Will children get sick if they don't masturbate?

No!

So why exposing them to an highly addictive behaviour that can create huge physiological problems later in life .


What of anal sex and MouthAction?

I Hope they teach them the health risks and not only that it's pleasurable .

I suspect they may not be willing to do that so they can create a new generation of individuals whose major focus in life would be to seek for sexual pleasure like a zombie.

Hello

Here is a link to the results of the study on NDE . It's the first phase of the study. The second phase of the study has also ended but no results has been released yet.

https://neuroskoki.pl/en/awareness-during-resuscitation-results-of-the-study/

LordReed:
I said the brain scan images are similar across individuals with similar thought patterns. I never said thought patterns are the same in individuals.

Here's one article to buttress the point: https://www.sciencenews.org/article/neuroscientists-decoded-thoughts-brain-scans



I've not seen where you answered it.

Not really a mystery since we know it is interactions that are causing these subjective experiences and these interactions are not precisely repeated in every body.

What of scientific studies which counters what you have shown me?

Are you saying you have not seen those ?

If you have ,what are your thoughts on those ones and why do you ignore them ?

All the evidences you presented ,I have seen them before,and it's why I had something to say against them base on the conclusion reached by others investigating the same thing .
I will read the link and respond later

TenQ:
Then respond to yourself.

You were preaching church doctrine as fact and wanted me to swallow it just like a religious zombie .

You just found a way to run away . I understand . Thanks for your time.

This is gettting interesting , but let me watch the video first before sharing my thoughts .later.

Before then ,current studies in the sciences says it's true people have the subjective experiences they report ,but it's not proof of heaven ,hell or an afterlife . No evidence yet that consciousness continue to exist in some form after the death of the physical body .

They also say it's not hallucination or dream since the brain of a clinically dead person cannot generate the vivid imageries associated with the experience. It's a phenomenon whose cause is not yet known .No part of the brain has been identified as the cause of NDE.



Infact since 2020 or thereabout, neuroscientist and other scientist investigating the phenomenon, on a massive scale , have rechristened NDE as EVA ; External visual awareness .So if at the moment ,you still call it NDE, or not aware of what has been discovered since then, you are not current and well informed about what is going on in the sciences, and not in a position to confidently argue for , or against NDE or OBE .


One should not jump into conclusion yet untill they have all the facts .Despite what I believe about the experience ,I still keep my mind open to new information incase.

LordReed:
Your mention was buried amongst others so didn't see it early

I thought so and knew you will respond once you see it.

1. Drugs, alcohol and other chemicals alteration of the emotional and mind states.

But not everyone is affected. Some people are not affected at all or affected exactly the same way like others . Why ?
[quote]2. Brain imaging showing thought patterns which are consistent across individuals, meaning it doesn't matter who is being subjected to brain imaging similar thought patterns produce similar images.

This is not completely true . You have depended on studies with few sample sizes to conclude .Thought patterns are not consistent across individuals. They may appear similar but not exactly the same .The minor differences is why no two persons behave or perceive things exactly the same way . You need to revisit where you got that from or let me see it to judge for myself.
.

3. Behavioural changes stemming from brain trauma of various sorts eg. surgery, brain tumors/cancer, stroke, brain injury, etc.[quote]The behavioural changes is sometimes due to how the person has responded to what has happened them. Neuroscientist have also observed persons with brain defects that did not lead to behavioural changes and behavioural changes not traceable to the brain . Why? They say it's a puzzle .. It appears you focus only on reading what supports what you want to accept and ignore the one's that don't . I read everything concerning any matter to help me judge correctly . To know the truth one needs to read everything.
[quote]4. Behavioural changes stemming from various bodily or organ dysfunction.

I think I already answered this. It doesn't happen to everyone with the same problem . That is the mystery .

These are the ones I can muster off the tip of my finger tips.

And those are my responses to the ones you brought . Thank you

TenQ:
If you have no courtesy to reply to my questions, why do you think I should respond to yours

What is this ?



Where is the lack of courtesy.?

Your number 4 questions talks about evolution which has nothing to do with the ongoing conversation . Why should I answer it at this time when we are yet to finish with the business of describing soul and spirit

And even the DNA stuff . What has that got to do with spirit and soul .

I was the one that ask first . You didn't answer directly to my questions yet you accuse me of lacking courtesy . Oh

TenQ:
1. First and foremost, I am a Christian and all my doctrines is from the Bible. I trust with my life the messages and information in the bathroom Bible.
2. The Bible is a book of History, Teaching, Admonition, Warning, Encouragement and not a book of Science and Philosophy
3. As a Rational being, I sometimes attempt to comprehend spiritual truths from the Bible with physical things for ease of understanding.
4. I therefore use Philosophy, Logic and Science as a Natural tool to aid understanding of the spiritual.
5. The summary is that I believe in the existence of a higher Dimension of invisible space with invisible beings where God, Angels, Demons have their domain



1. The Bible teaches so
2. I have a little privilege of casting out demons from a few people as described in the Bible using the name and power of Christ and have the same kind of manifestations as shown in the Bible.

Of course just as it is mundane to ask for the colour of electrons (I've never seen one), don't ask me for the physical description of demons.

A spirit is a non physical being!


The Person I call I, ME or MYSELF is not my physical body. You can surgically modify my body and I know that I would still keep my Identity as ME!

This is what is called my SOUL. My Personal Identity (my Soul) is defined by the three expressions of Emotion, Will and Intellect.


The Soul is the Personal or Internal Identity of any being. Goat A and Goat B are different identities even to themselves. They individually experience emotions, think and make decisions just like me.

Angels and Demons are each individually different and they all express emotions, they are intelligent and have abilities to express their will.


My spirit is the least appreciated part of Me because I live in the Physical Space and I survive in this space using more of my Soul and Spirit. My Spirit is that which communicate Faith as a settled knowing to me even when the odds is exceptionality at variance with the expectation.
My Conscience with the sense of Morality are from the senses of my spirit man communicated to my soul.

Other than this, at death when my physical body is shed. I still will have my identity complete with my spirit body until the day of resurrection.



The Soul Expresses:
1. EMOTION
2. WILL
3. INTELLECT

The mind is our Cognitive sence for thinking which consists of our Will and Intellect: a subset of the expression of the Soul.




I think I've answered you.

I have done a lot of electrical and electronics works, I have never personally seen nor weighed nor measured an electron in my life, yet I believe electrons exist! How? I have applied them in circuits.
Same with the Issue of Spirit, Soul and Body.

Good. So how did you come to accept ,just as you have done with 'electrical and electronics works ' that you have a spirit, through your own personal experience of working with your own body and the other parts of your invisible self ?

Or is the spirit and soul made of electrons

Let me ask you a question:
1. Do you think there is a strong parallel between an advanced AI robot and a human being?
2. If the above were correct, if you open up the memory of the advanced AI robot, would you find the computer programs and the associated data in it?
3. Do you think that the DNA is like a book of instruction that spells out every little detail about a being?
4. Do you think in this physical space, a system of computer code, it's compiler and the associated hardware can self evolve?

The above questions are not relevant to what I want you to explain . I think you want to deflect .

First if all ,describe everything you know about the soul and spirit to enable me see if it can be compared to an advanced AI.



An AI machine is something we can see or interact with physically . You have not demonstrated how we can interact with spirit or what it's , yet you want to compare it with an AI .

It doesn't make any sense .

Modified. I just noticed that you edited your reply . I will respond to your other explanations later

TenQ:
Let me attempt to simplify the description of the Mind


A man is made as a Trinity of a Body, Soul and Spirit.
Body:
The Body is the Physical representation of a man's being in the physical world. He is able to make physical changes to his environment and sense energies from his environment. In the physical realm, the Body is a Man's Physical Identity
The Spirit :
The Spirit is the Spiritual representation of a man's being in the spirit world. He is able to make spiritual changes to his environment and sense energies from this environment. In the spirit realm, the Spirit is a Man's Spiritual Identity
Soul:
The Soul is the Personal representation of a man's being to Himself. A man is able to Will, Think and Express Emotions with his soul. The man's Soul is His INTERNAL identity of I, ME or MYSELF.
The Soul interfaces with the Physical Body and the Spiritual Body of a man.

At Physical Death, the Body is disconnected from the Union of His Soul and Body.
At Physical Death, the Soul remains connected to the Spirit of the Person.


The Soul is akin to the SOFTWARE (Application Software and System Software/Operating System) of the Hardwares of the Body and his Spirit.

The Brain is akin to the Union of the CPU, GPU, ROM, RAM and HDD of a Computer System.

The MIND is the Union of the Faculty of INTELECT, WILL and MEMORY of an individual. It is a subset of the Soul

All Insects, Animals have a Body and a Soul.
All Angels Have a Soul and a Spirit Body
All Demons have a Soul and a Spirit Body
All Humans have a Spirit, Soul and a Body.

I have read the above a thousand times here on Nairaland , and find it not really describing anything one can make sense of.

The physical body is known ,but not much is known by everyone about the soul and especially the spirit you mentioned .


It's the human being we are talking about here ,and since you are that ,you would need to demonstrate using your own personal experiences to confirm all the things you have declared about soul,spirit and mind.

So here we go .

1. What is spirit and its exact nature . How did you arrive at the conclusion that you have a spirit that is different from your body ,mind and soul . Share an experience of yours alongside your explanation to prove your have a spirit .

2. How do you know that another aspect of yourself is soul. What experiences of yours has confirmed this for you ?

3. Furthermore, how do you know that animals ,Angels and demons have soul and spirit?

4 . And again, where is the spirit realm, and how do you function in that place as spirit while still occupying your physical body ?

5. Finally where is the mind located as subset of the soul .

There are more questions to come later ,but answer these ones first .

Please don't ignore what I have said . Your answers must be with reference to your own personal experiences ,if not ,it would mean you preached church doctrine alone and not facts .

Show me you have experienced what you have declared about the soul and spirit .

LordReed:
No doubt our knowledge of all the mechanisms of the mind is incomplete but all the evidence we currently have point in this direction. I await your specific objections, let's see what the knowledge base has to say about them.

The evidences we currently have doesnt point in the direction you imagined. You think so because you are viewing things from a strictly atheistic position and not able or willing to consider other possibilities .


Atheist materialist are the people mostly involved in a wrong interpretation of what has been discovered about the mind and brain . .


Present the evidences and let me show you how they do not point in the direction you think.

TenQ:
It seems the Mind (ability to store and process information) depends on feeling such as hunger, thirst, heat, fear , lust etc

These are feelings that are not registered in our biological frame (our body)..

First of all ,what is mind as you understand it. Most people are not sure of what it is .Let me know your own definition of mind ,or the one you subscribe to so I can be sure we are on the same page on the matter.


That aside, please permit me to present to you the model of consciousness I currently work with. It doesn't find full scientific yet, so you are free to accept it if it resonates with you ,or reject it if it doesn't .

The terms, mind and consciousness, are used interchangeably by most people to mean the same thing, but they do not actually refer to the same reality.

Consciousness is the non physical aspect of one's being, (one's true self) ,whose exact nature is not known and understood by most people , that has occupied a physical body to experience life materially.

While, the human mind is formed from what consciousness, 'the real person, has made of all the impressions received through the brain. .The mind can also be regarded as an inner mental construct which houses all thoughts generated by the being occupying the body ,as well as the thoughts received from other people .

Fascimiles of these thoughts when created or received are simultaneosly stored in the brain memory to enable easier retrieval when needed.

What most people are actually doing when they believe they are thinking is just rehashing thoughts which are already stored in mind in order to select the best ones to guide what they want to do or say. Only few persons are capable of really thinking in order to come up with innovative ideas.

The brain, which corresponds to the mind, is the device in the body, that helps to modulate the functions of the physical body. How it does this has been scientifically explained .

Without a brain ,consciousness, the owner of the body cannot manifest its intentions through it.



And because of the synergy which exists amongs consciousness, the mind and the observable physical brain to control objective behaviour, It's difficult to see any separation between the them

But they can be separated .

For instance, If the body desires food, it sends signals through the mind to the brain repeatedly until one is forced to act on it to move the physical body to go look for food.

We all can recollect those times in the past when an image of something; a place to visit or a food to eat it, is insistently flashed across the screen of our mind, without us being able to do anything to stop the thoughts. For some persons ,the signal manifest as a nudge to act on something .

Once this starts to happen, our brain, which is connected to mind, starts preparing the body for action . If it's sex ,we start to experience an erection . My apologies for the sex illustration .

When the consciousness within, the real person, that dwells in the body is not fully awaken to what is going on within itself , and is unable to pause to reason it out, whether to act or not
,it obeys like a zombie to move the body to go get the food , without giving much consideration to the fact it just finished eating that same food, and not even hungry yet.


The knowledge of what I just explained is the guiding principle behind all kinds of advertising, ,especially the insidious type of modern advertising that uses subliminal mesasges to get to one's mind in order to force you to buy something you don't even need. .

When we watch our favourite programme on television ,our brain is inundated at regular intervals with images from advertisers that are meant to control the things we will do later.

Understanding correctly what we truly are can only empower us to take control of our own lives so that other people don't influences us unduly and make us act in ways that are to our own detriment




.

This gives the impression that we have two bodies
1. The Physical Body:
Where we experience pain, tickle, brightness/sight, coldness, loudness etc
2. Non physical Body,:
Where we experience fear, joy, sadness, lust, despair, courage. etc


Of course, there can be overlap between the senses.

What is common to both is that they are not functions of thought, thinking or rationalising

They may have to do with our previous experiences sometimes: eg. Some certain PHOBIAS may be developed as a result of past experiences with snakes, dogs, darkness, water etc.

I can't make head nor tail of what you explained up there.


Overlap between what senses?



You need to revisit what you typed and make it very clear.
.

I think it is mundane to assume that the mind is just a function of chemicals reacting with cranial matters.

Who has said the mind is just a function of chemicals?, and how is that even explained ?

I don't agree to that .

Chemicals produce in the brain are most times the effects of what is going on within the mind .

TenQ:
It seems the Mind (ability to store and process information) depends on feeling such as hunger, thirst, heat, fear , lust etc

These are feelings that are not registered in our biological frame (our body).

This gives the impression that we have two bodies
1. The Physical Body:
Where we experience pain, tickle, brightness/sight, coldness, loudness etc
2. Non physical Body,:
Where we experience fear, joy, sadness, lust, despair, courage. etc

Of course, there can be overlap between the senses.

What is common to both is that they are not functions of thought, thinking or rationalising

They may have to do with our previous experiences sometimes: eg. Some certain PHOBIAS may be developed as a result of past experiences with snakes, dogs, darkness, water etc.


I think it is mundane to assume that the mind is just a function of chemicals reacting with cranial matters.

I will respond to this tomorrow

LordReed:
Na dia agbada don hook for nail. LoLz.

Your agbada is also hooked too .

You want to jest, yet, you have not been able to scientifically explain how mind has emerged from the brain, or clearly show how this 'mind ' interacts with the observable physical brain to control human behaviour



You still depend on the speculatory theory of some scientist to argue this.

LordReed:
On second thought I am not sure I need to write a treatise on this matter again since I already responded to it at length. Check out my responses to Deepsight from the following post onwards:
https://www.nairaland.com/6908566/boy-dead-20-minutes-what/5#109239457

I will take my time to respond to that. Don't want to rush it.

But in the meantime, I hope you are aware your explanations in that post doesnt have full scientific backing.

TenQ:
Move on bro!
Your understanding of "Emergent" was wrong even with your ChatGPT poster. I spelt it out for you.

Move on: it cost you nothing to do so!

No need for this kind of talk. Nobody knows it all. We can learn from each other as we continue to discuss the topic.

Since you created the thread, I advise you accommodate anything anyone has to contribute in order to keep the conversation going peacefully without quarrell.

LordReed:
I guess my explanation was incomplete but you guys seem to getting sidetracked by the omission, What is being conveyed, very succinctly, is wetness EMERGES, it is not an intrinsic property of water.

It was why I drew your attention to it so as to remove the confusion

LordReed:
For me the question is resolved by understanding that the mind emerges from the functioning of the body, there is no dualism at play here (as far as I am concerned). I think it is people who are trying to reconcile a dualistic view of mind and body that have the problem.

Before you start blaming anyone, first of all ,explain clearly how mind has emerged from the brain, and the other body parts you mentioned.


The claim that mind is an emergent property of brain function is based on Sperry's concept of mind.

It doesn't find full scientific support yet. It's speculatory theory at this point in time, and nothing more.

But you keep repeating it everywhere as fact, or something that has been conclusively proven to be true.

There is no general consensus in the sciences on how mind has emerged. Nobody knows or can explain it in the sciences

LordReed:
The point is, since you are getting lost in the weeds, wetness EMERGES, it is not an intrinsic property of any of the interacting components.

. You already made it clear initially that wetness' only emerges when molecules of water are interacting with one another. You are confusing us

LordReed:
So, get it straight, wetness EMERGES when molecules of water are acting in concert with one another, 'wetness does not exist in the molecules of water.

LordReed:
That is telling you that wetness EMERGES from interaction. It is not a property of water molecules themselves.

Added a chatgpt result for your consideration.

The ' chatgpt result' doesn't fully support your explanation.



If a surface is coated with grease, 'wetness' cannot emerge when water comes in contact with it, meaning that water on its own cannot emerge 'wetness'

G00DHardDick:
If cooking means a girl is logical, then you're even more dumber than I thought. I'm sure you don't know what being logical means, go and research on Russian scientists making robots and recently Elon musk just invented a robot acting as wife and artificial intelligency (these are what being logical means) of course, I don't expect you to understand this because you Nigeria girls are too daft to engage with. You think with your pussies more reason you thought cooking is logical.

You're just too da.ft to engage with. Let Hilda beca go and invent a robot or invent the cure for Cancer or even manufacture anything in existence, just like a little boy who manufactured a cooking gas and it went viral online (that's what being logical means). I understand this is above your IQ but try and stop fooling yoursef online by saying cooking is logical because you sound so dumb.

Are you for real ? Lol

You're mocking another person for something you are actually guilty of. You simply don't know what means to be a logical person.

A logical person is anyone who can critically analyse a problem or situation and come up with a reasonable solution.

You obviously don't know how to cook or what it takes to prepare a good meal hence you think it doesn't require much thinking.

Cooking a delicious meal for a large number of peoplel requires adequate planning and preparation for it to turn out right.

And anyone who has a plan before setting out to accomplish a task is being logical in their own way.

Hilda planned and made preparations for the cook-a-ton months beforehand .What she did before now was what made her to break the record yet, you say she's not a logical person?

Help yourself with a good online dictionary before criticising others for what you don't know.

Logical thinking doesn't mean inventing things like the Russian scientists or Elon musk you mentioned Anyone can be a logical thinker if they know how to use their brain in thinking correctly.

Thomasankara:
[/color] her father is just performing on the Average and tends to his cement store[color=#770077]

What do you want me to make of fact that the father sells cement?

And, what do you know about how they have been living their lives till now?

We both don't have the same definition of what it means to come from a poor home.

There are 'rich men' who are 'poor' and vice versa.