₦airaland Forum

That's the difference .

Half education is dangerous .

Precognition

Premonition

One should master how to think critically first before trying to teach others what it is .

If you have dream where a friend bought a particular brand of car for you ,and a week later , ,it happens in the waking state exactly the same way, and it's the exact brand of car ,that's a perfect example of precognitive dream . Meaning you saw the event ,all of it , and not just that you had an inkling of it happening .

And that's what I'm talking about . One should take time to critically analyse what another as described before interpreting it so as not to make a fool of oneself .

Precognition vs premonition . Half education is dangerous .

budaatum:
He doesn't know. He just wants to test if others know.

Speak for yourself . What do you know ?

Nothing .

You shared the link to an article containing certain info that are no longer current and don't even know it, yet you still want talk ? This is not the first time ,and you claimed you schooled in England ?

If that's true ,then you must have been one of the dullest in class . Who else if not a slowpoke that would reference an article written in 2017, without first confirming if everything there is still valid .

You continue to show why someone here once called you a scientific illiterate . That's what you are.

And please stop quoting me . I don't want to discuss with someone like you that maliciously edited my comments, out of the context it was made , and then match it with another one to misrepresent me .

Are you not ashamed for such display of stupidity ?

Rest old fool

LordReed:
Then how do you know it isn't a product of the interactions in the brain and body?

Brilliant question. I will answer it immediately because I know you will take your time to read everything before replying .

It's said that the human mind functions in two modes, the unconscious (AKA the subconscious) and the conscious . Everything we experience subjectively within ourselves can come from either of the two .

The operations of the latter is easily seen in the observable human brain .

For instance , we know the part of the brain that is responsible for the sense of Smell ,taste ,sight ,etc. However there's a limit to which the brain can make us perceive anyrhing that come from outside of it

As for the unconscious ,not much is known of how it operates and what part of the brain controls what it does. Most people just assume it's the brain that controls it , and call it the non conscious part of the brain . That assumption is wrong as you shall come to see .

The subconscious mind can make us known directly things the observable human brain is incapable of making us sense or experience at any given time .

With the subconscious, one can have a precognition of an event that is yet to occur or know it before it manifest later. No part of the brain has been identified that can make this happen , yet some persons have this sort of experiences all the time .

The brain together with the central nervous system cannot make us experience anything else apart from what is already stored in it , or what it's programmed to react to. But when that happens ,insisting it's still the brain that has made it happen is foolish and ignorant talk by someone who is not too well informed of the science behind the human body .

Also the subconscious can make it possible to 'see' through walls to know what is happening behind it.,not with the physical eyes of course ,but through what some persons refer to as the third eye .Not an actual eye really ,but it's own unique way of making one perceive reality directly, far better than what the five physical senses can give us.

When the unconscious 'sees ' anything ,it flashes it across the screen of your mind so one is aware of it, and also for the brain to store and process it. But most people are so disconnected from their unconscious, or not fully conscious of their own consciousness , that they are not even aware when this happens within themselves ,

There is no part of the brain that can make one "see" through walls . But some persons have had that kind of experience and when they report it ,,some ignorant persons who believe it's not possible , would dismiss it with , Oh, You were just hallucinating or it was conincidence.

Furthermore ,the subconscious can make anybody perceive the smell of something beyond the normal range of what the brain can detect ..Some humans and animals ,sniffer dogs especially, can sense the 'smell' of an illness,, cancer ,diabetes, etc , weeks or months before it manifest in the human body . The brain is incapable of such function it's limited to only experiencing what is 'there ' already in the body .

And again ,the subsconscious doesn't forget anything. It is not like the brain which forgets easily and cannot store much information or know anything that's not stored within it.

Through hypnosis regression one can recall memories of what one has experienced in the past even to the extent of remembering the exact time one entered the physical body in their mother's womb. If it's possible to remember, through the subconscious , that sort of thing ,which is actually possible with hypnosis ,then ,it would only mean one thing , the real human being is not the same as the body it is believed it emerged from You cannot watch and see your body formimg in your mother's womb before possessing it and still delude yourself into thinking your conscousness or your self has emerged from it. It doesn't make sense .

And finally ,OBEs, which you are yet to accept, is another reason I say consciousness, the real self has not emerged from the brain . Yes , the brain and the central nervous system is what makes us have objective conscousness through the physical body ,but that's not enough reason to conclude it has emergred from it .

My phone, any phone or any other device that's internet enabled , is what gives me presence, or make me come alive on Nairaland, without which nobody can interact with me . Those devices are not me and not responsible for the thoughts I express eventhough it's through them I do so . If they become faulty or damaged, it will affect my presence , or what I try to do get across on this board.( The material plane )



The above analogy, though not perfect ,can help one understand how consciousness ,the real self inside uses a physical body to operate in the material plane . If the brain is dameged ,it is not the being using it that is
directjy affected ,but that only makes it more difficult , or no longer possible to manifest ones intentions through it, since everything coming in and going out then becomes garbled due to the faulty brain . .

The pain we feel when our body gets hurt is to alert us to what has happened withiin it so we can deal with or take care of the problem and continue to using the body . Without this ,you won't know what's going untill the body stops working . But one should know they are not the body , and will depart from it one day .

The human being is much more than its observable physical parts . but unfortunately neuroscientist and others within the scientific community are treating the human being like a machine whose outer body parts and engine once understood ,will make everything fall into place . Unless there is a paradigm shift in the sciences about the human being ,I'm afraid not much will be known . The mystification will continue .

Long time ago when I first started to meditate , I wasn't too sure if what I was doing was worth it or could help me in anyway . The reason for this was because the position of main stream science as at that time was,; meditation was harmful to one's mental health . That it causes depressions and also cannot help you make any meaningful changes within yourself as people who practiced it were claiming .


But my experiences proved otherwise . So I continue ,but with caution .

And now more than 20 years later ,the same scientist are now encouraging people to meditate because they found its helpful for those suffering from depression . Haba!

Well it's still good . It has helped people like me to take the practice more serious since scientist can now confirm it works .


There are meditative techniques to help one separate from the body ,but not easy to master . If you want it fast, then look for individuals with the ability to take you out of your body with your permission . Or join genuine esoteric group to give you the experience during your first initiatiion.

If you don't want to go through that ,then try this , tell you self each night people you go to sleep that you need an experience to confirm if ones consciousness can actually separate from the body . After that don't give it any thought . If it's something you are ready for ,your higher self , the subsconscious , will do everything to make you have the experience so you know the truth about yourself.

So thanks Lordreed for the question. I hope you read all .Most of the things I promised to come with yesterday ,before I was distracted, are contained in it

LordReed:
Where is it localised?

Nobody knows where because the subjective part of one's being is non material

budaatum:
I am not your student nor your slave. Go do your own homework!

https://www.psychologicalscience.org/observer/neuroscience-empathy#comment-8362341

Lol

You are hiding now, and on the defensive


And who tells you I don't have an explanation

I sure do, but wanted to see what you know .

I already explained to Lordreeed in another thread where he asked for a description of the model of consciousness I currently work with.

You can confirm from him . .

You could not even explain rationally what
exactly was making you to react to your mum's emotional states as a kid, without running to Wikipedia to reference an article you lack the basic background knowledge and experience to understand .

Goigke and paste will not help you here as you will continue to display your ignorance by referencing irrelevant materials


You cannot be my student because you are not willing to learn anything , and if I were to buy a slave, not an arrogant one like you that would cause me problems


Stick to what you know very well and don't overeach yourseif by trying to teach what you are clueless about

Good day. .

budaatum:
Every experience that is experienced by a subject is subjective. I.e. Pain of hammer hitting thumb.

All reports of subject's experiences are subjective. I.e. subjects report of hammer hitting subject's thumb, since it is a subjective report of their subjective experience..

Corroboration by subjects (dem say), are subjective. I.e. reports by other subjects of hammer hitting subject's thumb since they did not subjectively experience the hammer subjectively hitting their thumb.

The first link below is on objectivity but I could not access it on my device hence the second link too. Understanding the difference helps understand both.

https://iep.utm.edu/objectiv/

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/scientific-objectivity/

Is this an explanation for what asked for ?

If you cannot explain it ,why don't you just say so instead of wasting my time .

Modified.

You assume you know what I'm talking about ,but I can see you don't , if not ,you will not be asking me to know the difference between subjective and objective .

What I'm descriping is not what you have
directly experiencedd before so you are unable to make head nor tail of it.

Those who have extensive knowledge on the topic and have experienced it directly can make sense of it. .

The limitations of language is the problem .

I will look for simple descriprive words for easier understanding so you don't continue to misrepresent me each time .

Later

@budatum
Below is the full statement . Why have you edited that way ?

triplechoice:
You are one a different wave lentght What you talked of your mother is something other people have experienced .

And it has scientific explanation already . You search for it yourself

budaatum:
I'm very certain my Lord will tell you where to go for asking me to answer a question you can't answer as if you will pay me or I am your slave.

What are you doing ?

I can see you don't teke your time to read my replies .

The second statement is for you not me .

Your experience ,I said is scientifically explained . You look for it .

But I just did that for you .


You should thanking me instead of this misrepresentation

LordReed:
I doubt any neuroscientist is looking for where consciousness is localised in the brain since they understand it is the entire brain that is involved in producing the consciousness not some singular part.

What I actually wanted to say is that the operations of the subconscious is not ocalised in the visible human brain and not that they are trying to look for it there .

budaatum:
I so love how the unconscious and consciousness works. When I was much younger my mama will have headache and my head will be hurting. She broke her leg in Lagos and I was limping in Ibadan, and God help me when she was pregnant 5 times. That's special relationships for you.

Triple, It is not unusual to know the cooking or perfume worn by one one has "some special relationship with".

I'm afraid you are projecting .

I'm not focused on the unusualness of the experience . I don't regard it as unusual as it's normal to me and some other people who have that kind of experience regularly .

I only ask you to provide a rational explanation for the experience . What is the actual cause ?

What you experienced with your mum and what I described are not the same .

You are comparing apples and oranges .

Both experiences are subjective ,but not the exactly the same kind of subjective experience.



Yours is called somatic empathy, and it's triggered in the brain . You were constantly affected by your mum's emotional state due to the strong affinity that exist between the two of you . This kind of experience is also common between siblings that are twins ,and not just anyone .

Distance is not a barrier because neural pathways in your brain , which connects you to your mum , and which also represents the kind of fondness you have for each other ,acts not only as a controller of your behaviour ,but also as a receiver of whatever signal her brain was emitting whenever she was in distress .

The signal that you receive is processed in your brain to activate physiological effects in your body that matches the exact emotional States of your mum, making you to experience it directly.

The one I described is not the same yours . It can happen between anybody ; a perfect strangers one is contacting on phone for the first time, the anonymous person one is chatting with on Nairaland ,Twiiter , Facebook etc ,,and not only those one has a close personal relationship with . I mentioned this breifly in my earlier description ,but you ignored it .

And again ,what is perceived subjectively in what I described are the activities going on in the other person's outer environment, and not what is occuring inside their mind ,

The natural laws controlling the workings of the human brain makes it impossible for anyone to perceive directly the smell of something beyond a certain range .

And when that happens ,what's the cause ?

That's what I want you to explain



I have taken my time to explain your own subjective experience scientifically.

So please reciprocate in kind and don't give me mumbo jumbo., or irrelevant links .Thank you

@ I invite Lordreed to be the moderator for this one

budaatum:
Empathy, makes it possible.

The phrase "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us" is to religiously cement it in humans. Below touches the surface, but it's been discovered to go a lot deeper than that.

You are one a different wave lentght What you talked of your mother is something other people have experienced .

And it has scientific explanation already . You search for it yourself

budaatum:
Hear yourself, please. Does one drop little drop of subjectivity not deobjectify enough for you?

You are making me wonder if you know what the word means.

You don't know what I want to explain . I even said is not my conclusion .

No two persons can have exactly the same subjective experience , ,not to talk of millions of people from different bsckgrounds .

Wait untill you see the evidence of what I present . It's not what you think .

budaatum:
Triple, a person's consciousness, as in what a person is aware of and notices, is very wholly subjective to that person. What they are aware or conscious of is what the subject unconsciously or consciously chooses to be conscious or aware of, and they approach it with their own subjective ability to be conscious or aware of things, and their subjective ability to present their subjective consciousness for the consideration of subjective others. Can you see how subjective it is?

Let me go a step further. Even your own consciousness is very subjective to yourself and there's mostly no objectivity in it whatsoever. You are not even conscious of all that your mind is conscious of, and you can not know what a person is conscious of unless they tell you or you brainwashed them or you read minds.



First, see how you've had almost a month of deriding someone else's subjective naration of their own subjective nde and obe and it turns out you have your own subjective experience that you promise to share but of course you can not accept that your subjective brain is the cause and must find some other cause not subject to you that you can subjectively claim is objective. Except we'd say, "show us if you dared".

That the rest? Beneath the level of things I consciously choose to consider.

Don't jump into conclusion yet . NDE is not wholly subjective if you actually had it. I will explain that tomorrow . It's not my conclusion , but what scientist investigating the phenomenon have declared .

Other kind of OBE may be subjective ,

budaatum:
I so love how the unconscious and consciousness works. When I was much younger my mama will have headache and my head will be hurting. She broke her leg in Lagos and I was limping in Ibadan, and God help me when she was pregnant 5 times. That's special relationships for you.

Triple, It is not unusual to know the cooking or perfume worn by one one has "some special relationship with".

Are you sure you read what I explained and the explanation I ask you to give to it based on your knowledge of how the human brain works ?

I m saying ,even though not unusual , current mind theory says it's not possible to have that kind of experience .

What makes it possible then. ?

budaatum:
But this study does not show nor indicate that consciousness separates from the body, nor do I think it even attempts to.

Consciousness is subjective in that it belongs to a subject whom it belongs to. It is not something we share. I have my subjective consciousness and you have your subjective consciousness, and thankfully we have words with which we convey the subjective consciousness of our experiences and understandings and knowledge to one another.

So how do you separate subjective consciousness from the subjects body? That's not to say it's not possible. In fact, we in a sense already do when we record media and write out the products of our consciousness in books though we don't mind read the read yet.

Possible? Anything is possible till it's not.

Consciousness is not wholly subjective . It's made up of both the subjective and objective parts . Not much is known about the former since it has not been localised to any part of the brain ,and its why there have been lots of speculations about it's origin .


Is it what people call the soul or subconscious mind ?

Most neuroscientist dismiss the existence of the subconscious mind . They say there's no evidence for it . That the brain is responsible for everything we perceive .

But the brain has its limitations.it cannot make you perceive anything .beyond a certain point , it's absolute threshold .


My own experiences ,some of it ,which I promise to share later will not make me accept that my brain is the cause . I'm not the only one in this kind of situation .


So what do you want a person like me to do then ?

To deny who I am and how my consciousness operates because scientist are currently
saying it's not possible for anybody to have a mind or brain that make one have those kind of experiences ?

Read this below and explain the cause .

You are on a call to a friend who resides in another country , and suddenly you start to perceive the perfume the person is wearing . You mention it to them , and they confirm you are correct .

As the call progresses you start to perceive the smell of what your friend is cooking in the kitchen . He also confirms it.

If you keep having this kind of experience each time you are on a call with anyone else , then tell me ,how can you explain it using your knowledge of how the human brain works .

Please don't mention you guessed it right each time . That's surely not possible .

Or coincidence. . No way .

What I describe above is a type of OBE that some persons experience all the time ,but won't open up to discuss it with others except you have some special relationship with them ..
OBE doesn't mean you must see yourself outside your physical body before you know you have experience it. Not everyone has the type where they see themselves outside their bodies

Some religious people who experience it assume it's a gift from God and quickly open a church to start prophesying to other people .

Yea, some people actually have this sort of experience ,but some pretend to have it when they don't .

LordReed:
You misunderstand my point with the sarcasm. The point is I think there is no discounting that these people have experiences, we all have experiences. These people see what is obviously familiar to them in waking life during bouts of unconsciousness and interpret those experiences as something important moreso than dreams. I on the other hand do not think their experiences carry any more weight than that of a dream.

Ok. I get you .

But there's something you are downplaying .

NDE for instance ,is very significant because if it's proven that the brain is not creating the experience, just like our dreams ,then it would mean only one thing : consciousness can separate from the physical body either at death or any other time .

Let me borrow your own expression to declare this clearly ; current evidences is pointing to the fact that consciousness may not have emerged from matter or the brain after all, and may continue to exist after the death of the physical body .

So why don't you think that's special?

LordReed:
That's a link to a blog. Here is the link to the actual study:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25301715/

That was an error on my part . It should have read a blog with a summary of the main study.

It doesn't say that it is definitely not a hallucination or entirely a subjective experience. In fact the author says:

I said those based on the snippets of reports from the second phase not yet fully released , and interviews granted by head of the research team . The study has entered its second phase and you should expect they must have made further observation to know better . I will share the link to the blog where it's currently being discussed and that of the interview .

While the low incidence (2%) of explicit recall of VA impaired our ability to use images to objectively examine the validity of specific claims associated with VA, nonetheless our verified case of VA suggests conscious awareness may occur beyond the first 20–30 s after CA (when some residual brain electrical activity may occur) while providing a quantifiable time
period of awareness after the brain ordinarily reaches an isolectric
state.

Only one verifiable incidence out of 2060. This is not indicative of any objective afterlife IMO.

You didn't read me very well . I did mentioned it's not indicative of any after life . Go back to what you have responded to . You will see where I said so.

In the second phase they now have explanations why only one person .. They said it's due to biological and physiological reasons . You know must people dream and wake up not remembering anything .

In the first phase, if you go back to read it again . It was actually two people who were willing to share their experience , but one was so sick he opted out from being interviewed .

Even if it's one ,I think it's hugely significant if we consider the nature of what is being researched . Nobody within the scientific community thinks it's ever possible for consciousness to separate from the human body .

If it is announced that scientist have finally created a single AI with sentience , I m sure you would have celebrated it and draw my attention to it, and not downplay it that it's just one out of thousands .

However nothing is conclusive yet so no need to jump into any conclusions. The reaserch is still at the elementary stage . They will continue to research untill we understand better .

These are my thoughts on the NDE of the atheist .

I watched the video to the end, and enjoyed watching it. I like the narrators sense of humor . He really knows how to make one laugh so one watch till the end.

If the man's story is true ,then the Jesus he encountered is not the one in the Bible . This one is not judgemental or discriminatory against anyone , meaning that what is contained in the Bible about God and Jesus is not true . The man at one point even imagined a female breast in the presence of Jesus to test if he ,Jesus ,could actually read his thoughts . Jesus was not angry and smiled lovingly back at him after he thought of the big breast .Lol

In the early part of the narration ,the narrator said a short prayer while in hell, and the Jesus in the story immediately appeared to take him away from there straight to a better place that appears like heaven . This experience runs contrary to what most christians would expect to happen to such a person . An atheist or anyone else who has denied Jesus while on earth is not expected to deserve such response from him , but the narrator was saved despite the kind of life he lived . According to him ,he hates anything that has to do with God and religion ,and last prayed when he was a kid . He only remembered to say 'the Lord is my shepherd ' in hell , and that was all it took to make Jesus appear to him ,and take him away from there

I think the op is obviously disappointed about this ,and I suspect it's the reason he doesn't want to accept the man s full story as true ,but only choose the part that talks about hell and the after life experience itself in order to preach his church doctrine indirectly while denying that's not his intention

.If the atheist story proves an after life according to TenQ, why is he rejecting the other part which proves çhristians like himself are worshipping a false Jesus and God that exist in the Bible .

Well ,what did I make of all of the story?

Before I speak on that ,I would like to address something I have observed on this thread .

I'm unable to find anyone here who has enough understanding of the topic of OBE or NDE . Most people assume they do when they don't .

This is not to desparage anyone, so no one should take it personal .

But Budatum is still posting his own theoretical understanding of NDE from another thread , without realising he is very far from it.

Lordreed and some others have also responded in almost the same way. The joke of seeing TenQ logging into Nairaland has made me understand his own interpretation of the phenomenom: To him people are just making things up and believing it .

Some persons are aware that the limitations of the human language sometimes makes it difficult to make full sense if what we read or have explained to us by others.

Sometimes ,If what we read is not something we have
directly experienced ourselves ,no amount of reading or explanation will make us understand it exactly the way it should be understood .

For instance , if you have never had sex before or masturbated , no amount of reading , watching YouTube videos or any kind of explanation will make you know how it feels directly to experience an orgasm. You will only be making conjectures in your head of what it feels like which are far from the real thing . It's only when you directly experienced it yourself ,you then exclaim 'oh ! Is this how it really feels ! I didn't know '

Most of the things explained by some scientist on the phenomenon found on the net are inaccurate or not complete info .But of course , It's to be expected . They don't teach OBE in science classes and the scientist themselves don't have a direct experience of what they are trying to explain. So what are they relying on for their speculations ? Nothing reasonable ,and not even a direct experience of it . People don't bother to question what get read as long it's coming from an expert they just swallow it unthinkingly and regurgicate it anywhere .

But there is an ongoing research by scientist in order to unravel OBE so we understand what is really causing it from a scientific point of view ,backed with facts and evidence and not conjectures or personal opinion of an expert scientist somewhere .


Skepticks , atheist in particular , erroneously reject OBE with the assumption it's a religous claim just because some uninformed religious groups like to use it as a validation of heaven ,hell or God . Everyone has had an OBE, if you have not had it then ,you are just a soulless bot ,and not human .

Not every OBE is dramatic like the NDEs we read or watch on YouTube .Some occur so subtly that you don't even know you just experienced it. NDE is a type of OBE, that's triggered differently . Most people are confused about the two terms here and have been using it anyhow not caring if they are making sense or not .



In any case ,I found a solution to explain this in a way to make it very clear for anyone following who is interested in what I have to say concerning the phenomenon. Even thought everything I will explain is not fully supported by science ,it doesn't mean they not true . You are free to reject or accept . I'm not here to convince anyone one to join me to worship anything , or join any religion .

I don't claim to know it all ,but I think I know enough about the subject since I started having spontaneous OBE of a different kind from an early age ,without first reading about it anywhere untill I got to understand why I was having them .

Those experiences were the catalyst which actually pushed me into looking for answers everywhere .Some of the things I learnt on the way ,( I'm still learning and still sceptical ) and a few of my personal experiences, as illustration will be used in my explanations that I will present tomorrow .




Thank you

TenQ:
LordReed, Budaatum, UnknownUnknown, triplechoice and Co.

See your people!
This is exactly what happens when humans decide to set their own standard of morality outside God.

You don't have any moral right to criticise this behaviour, do you!?

Is something wrong with you ?

FYI, I'm not atheist, so please stop directing your hatred for atheist towards me.

JohnBullMySon:
Ok let me tell you how this things work in reality. Hardly is there any school in the US is UK that sits to teach these things to young children. There's simply no school that teaches young children sex acts.

These are books that are mostly targeted at late teens but are kept in school libraries where kindergarten may be able to access technically.

Conservatives will find these books in the libraries and begin to spin silly narratives. Their number one weapon is fear mongering, telling us that things are getting destroyed while in reality nothing ever gets destroyed. The guy that told us that he's the only one who can save America is the same person that almost destroyed the Independence of American institutions.

Where's the evidence they don't teach them yet in schools ?

The source from which the Op got it from says they are .

A child is not an adult . It seems some persons no longer know the difference ,or know, but pretend not to know for the agenda they are pursuing .


There are certain topics children should not be taught since they cannot handle it at that age.

Will children get sick if they don't masturbate?

No!

So why exposing them to an highly addictive behaviour that can create huge physiological problems later in life .


What of anal sex and MouthAction?

I Hope they teach them the health risks and not only that it's pleasurable .

I suspect they may not be willing to do that so they can create a new generation of individuals whose major focus in life would be to seek for sexual pleasure like a zombie.

Hello

Here is a link to the results of the study on NDE . It's the first phase of the study. The second phase of the study has also ended but no results has been released yet.

https://neuroskoki.pl/en/awareness-during-resuscitation-results-of-the-study/

LordReed:
I said the brain scan images are similar across individuals with similar thought patterns. I never said thought patterns are the same in individuals.

Here's one article to buttress the point: https://www.sciencenews.org/article/neuroscientists-decoded-thoughts-brain-scans



I've not seen where you answered it.

Not really a mystery since we know it is interactions that are causing these subjective experiences and these interactions are not precisely repeated in every body.

What of scientific studies which counters what you have shown me?

Are you saying you have not seen those ?

If you have ,what are your thoughts on those ones and why do you ignore them ?

All the evidences you presented ,I have seen them before,and it's why I had something to say against them base on the conclusion reached by others investigating the same thing .
I will read the link and respond later

TenQ:
Then respond to yourself.

You were preaching church doctrine as fact and wanted me to swallow it just like a religious zombie .

You just found a way to run away . I understand . Thanks for your time.

This is gettting interesting , but let me watch the video first before sharing my thoughts .later.

Before then ,current studies in the sciences says it's true people have the subjective experiences they report ,but it's not proof of heaven ,hell or an afterlife . No evidence yet that consciousness continue to exist in some form after the death of the physical body .

They also say it's not hallucination or dream since the brain of a clinically dead person cannot generate the vivid imageries associated with the experience. It's a phenomenon whose cause is not yet known .No part of the brain has been identified as the cause of NDE.



Infact since 2020 or thereabout, neuroscientist and other scientist investigating the phenomenon, on a massive scale , have rechristened NDE as EVA ; External visual awareness .So if at the moment ,you still call it NDE, or not aware of what has been discovered since then, you are not current and well informed about what is going on in the sciences, and not in a position to confidently argue for , or against NDE or OBE .


One should not jump into conclusion yet untill they have all the facts .Despite what I believe about the experience ,I still keep my mind open to new information incase.

LordReed:
Your mention was buried amongst others so didn't see it early

I thought so and knew you will respond once you see it.

1. Drugs, alcohol and other chemicals alteration of the emotional and mind states.

But not everyone is affected. Some people are not affected at all or affected exactly the same way like others . Why ?
[quote]2. Brain imaging showing thought patterns which are consistent across individuals, meaning it doesn't matter who is being subjected to brain imaging similar thought patterns produce similar images.

This is not completely true . You have depended on studies with few sample sizes to conclude .Thought patterns are not consistent across individuals. They may appear similar but not exactly the same .The minor differences is why no two persons behave or perceive things exactly the same way . You need to revisit where you got that from or let me see it to judge for myself.
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3. Behavioural changes stemming from brain trauma of various sorts eg. surgery, brain tumors/cancer, stroke, brain injury, etc.[quote]The behavioural changes is sometimes due to how the person has responded to what has happened them. Neuroscientist have also observed persons with brain defects that did not lead to behavioural changes and behavioural changes not traceable to the brain . Why? They say it's a puzzle .. It appears you focus only on reading what supports what you want to accept and ignore the one's that don't . I read everything concerning any matter to help me judge correctly . To know the truth one needs to read everything.
[quote]4. Behavioural changes stemming from various bodily or organ dysfunction.

I think I already answered this. It doesn't happen to everyone with the same problem . That is the mystery .

These are the ones I can muster off the tip of my finger tips.

And those are my responses to the ones you brought . Thank you