₦airaland Forum

@budatuum this how they deceive you there with fake scientific prove . Open your eyes and free yourself

Brainwashed Amorc member who has deluded himself into thinking he is a trained scientist capable of carrying out proper scientific research that can pass the test

I should provide it for you to test .Go and test your head first . No more sense on it .

Your quoting of the Bible all the time is due to your Amorc brainwashing .

Question what you believe, before asking others to do so ,you hypocrite @budatuum.

Read the full story here
https://www.traditioninaction.org/Questions/B932_Crucian.html

budaatum:
Then simply present here the details of your tests instead of asking for anecdotes to be believed please. If one studys your evidence and finds what you found one might end up advertising it for you even if one finds no use for it oneself.

Those who care to listen to you will. I've been partially listening to you because I care too, and what I'm finding is unbelievable.

I never asked anyone to believe in anecdotes since I now they are not reliable

I only mentioned that when I used the analogy of herbal products for clarification .Analogies are never perfect . I expect you to know that .



But because you are seeking to score some cheap points , you deliberately misinterpreted all of it . You should be ashamed of your behaviour at your age .

The truth I know about my self and the human being doesn't rely on any anecdotes , and it's my prerogative to share it here or not

The information I already gave out is enough for you to work with if you really know what you are doing , but you don't .

I m not the only one who know what I know . Go search elsewhere online or even here to meet with such persons and ask for it .

You are not in a position to demand anything from me .

Morever ,you are not trained scientist who can carry out testing and experimentation under close control settings ,that is if you even know what that means because you are scientific illiterate .



And you know what , you are the greatest hypocrite and pretender right now on this furom , deceiving everyone ,not me ,that you are an atheist when you are just a zombie believer in Amorc teachings .

What you practice in your closet is what you come to deny in public to hide who you are .


Provide prove for your Rosicruciian pesudoscience .

You are in bondage and don't yet realise it. Go practice Ifa since you are Yoruba , and stop fooling yourself .

budaatum:
About The Rosicrucian Order, AMORC

THE ROSICRUCIAN TEACHINGS enable people to find themselves, turn their lives around, and influence the universe. We are educators, students and seekers devoted to exploring inner wisdom and the meaning of life. We offer an ancient time tested system of study and experimentation, which reveals the underlying principles of the universe. Our method offers practical tools applicable to all aspects of life.

The Rosicrucian teachings allow individuals to direct their own lives, experience inner peace and leave their mark on humanity. It is for this reason that we urge our members to remain committed to the investigation, study and practical application of all natural and spiritual laws for the attainment of Health, Happiness and Peace to the glory of God, the betterment of humanity and the evolution of the soul personality.

Download pdf copy of Mystery of Life
Nigeria Contact Details
Amorc near you

All of the above are empty claims whiich you cannot prove . You are in dangerous cult. Get out of it .

You started this nonsense by going to dig up something I said long ago which doesn't relate at all .

Since you want to have the last word ,I will teach you that no one wins a mud sllinging contest .

budaatum:
Well, you did ask me to 0r9ve to you that it was, do it wouldn't exactly be remise if me to assume you thought otherwise.



Your question is as senseless as asking what the source of the universe is. Hopefully, you are aware these things came into existence long before I did and any claim I may make about their source would be in the form of "dem say", which I have derided you for doing on here from the onset and so would not do so myself.

Fact however remains that consciousness, and mind, are inherent in living things which are matter, and thinking otherwise is to assume matter itself came out of thin air.

P.s. You might benefit from downloading and listening to Aristotle extensive writing on this subject.

https://archive.org/download/aristtl/Aristotle/Aristotle%20-%20Metaphysics.m4b

I sure would benefit if you do as it would bring you up to a level where you are competent to discuss the topic. Do note that more modern writings exist too, like Karl Popper for instance. Reading such books will reduce your belief in the rubbish you been spilling here, and give you insight into the relevant skills to help you determine if you think right or wrong.

Because you have a blind spot from viewing reality from a singular position alone ,you say the question is rubbish ..

The question I asked is both an existential and a little bit of a scientific one. ,a natural fallout from the conversation I was having with Reed

Theres nothing wrong or senseless in demanding to know the source of the product one is making use of . Your personal opinion is not fact .. You should know it ,and stop bluffing .

.There are no senseless questions when it comes to the issue of where life has come from and why .

But because you jumped into the conversation like a bot to enforce your nonsense opinions and usual craziness ,you could not see what you walked into , a trap ,that has now exposed you for who you are. A no nothing and half baked individual.


You need to expand your horizon so you stop thinking in black and white

Rosicruciian wrong interpretation of reality has really effected your thinking . Free yourself from that bondage . You mind is no longer yours .

Reading books is good ,but without the necessary practical experience to back them up , one's education is incomplete .

You only share links to books you have read ( II have read them too and even more ) to booster your ego ,but there's no evidence from your display here that they have helped to improve your person . You still behave like child seeking for attention .

LordReed:
There is a lot to unpack here so I might have to do it in bits. I am not really settled enough to respond to everything in one go.

This: As for the unconscious, not much is known of how it operates and what part of the brain controls what it does. Most people just assume it's the brain that controls it, and call it the non conscious part of the brain. That assumption is wrong as you shall come to see.

that seems to be the foundation of your response here might be wrong. There are findings that indicate that the subconscious is processed within the subcortical regions of the brain. You can see that here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3393600/
Admittedly that knowledge is still very far from complete, but it challenges the notion that we don't know where in the brain the subconscious is being processed.

The so called place in the brain where the subconscious is believed to be processed is simply the effects of what is going within it (,the unfathomable subconscious , )

I'm not saying it's not tied to the brain, or is it separate , but insist it has not emerged from it .

Correlation they say ,is not causation .

https://jonlieffmd.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/FEATURE-LIMITS-OF-iStock_000023595907XSmall.jpg

budaatum:
You should test your product before you bring it to market, Triple. Or you might arrive at the market and potential non-buyers call you fake.

I have done that and millions of others in the world who also subscribe to the same thing ,which they know is true, 'have also done the same before announcing it to whomever cares to listen .

I'm not selling anything tangible to you . If I were ,I would not ask anyone to accept or reject it .That would be self sabotage.

The herbal products analogy is not understood by you yet. Besides I put it in quotes .

You continue to forget that because you want to grasp at straws

budaatum:
Dude, I do not need to provide you with evidence that your mind is a part of your body since I am offering my subjective opinion and not some objective fact, and because it's perfectly okay with me if you don't think your mind is part of your body.

Besides, evidence is me educating you, and it's not like you paid school fees or deserve to be taught by me.

And where did I say my mind is not part of my body?

You are confused or something ?

The question is ,what is the source of the human consciousness? Matter or

Answer that if you know it, and stop twisting and turning .

budaatum:
I'm certain we can agree that you have not done anything that is described in the link you posted. And that's why we claim your so called evidence lacks credibility.

SMH. Why should I should I do so when I m not traned scientist .

I not surprised you will read the article and misinterprete it

Scientific evidence is information , but the question is ,what can of information is accepted as scientific evidence within the scientific community ,and the people capable of providing it , so one doesn't foolishly demand it from anyone .

The article provided a of set cretaria to enable one judge correctly what is scientific evidence different from any other kind of evidence that are still acceptable as valid prove of something .



I have always declared that the claims I make here are not fully supported by science ,but doesn't mean they are not true . And after saying so ,I usually provide information, evidence in support of my claims .

But because your mind cannot process them due to cognitive bias ,you erroneously think they are not valid ,and still insist I provide scientific evidence , as if you even know what that means . SMH.

Now that I have exposed your ignorance on the matter ,you are looking for where to hide your face as you usually do .

Pride and ego is why you will never accept that all along you have being mis using term by asking for scientific evidence for just about anything .

Only scientific illiterates pretending they are knowledgeable in the sciences behave
that way .

And you are one of such persons . I'm not the only one who have told you that .

Go get further education in the sciences if you like to use it all the time to interprete the worid around you so you stop fooling yourself ..

budaatum:
There's different sorts of anecdotal evidence. I've used 2 stories from my past so far as anecdotal evidence of my claim, and I don't expect you to believe nor accept my anecdotal evidence as scientific evidence for my claim because it isn't.

There is so much "scientifically proven" out there to try before you get to "proven anecdotally", Triple, though I confess that depends on the environment one is in. If one were poor and healthcare cost tons, one would need to consider the financial cost of a cure and thereby go for alternatives than more expensive proven cures for instance. I have a friend who tried alternatives. She had breast cancer and refused the scientifically proven treatments, preferring the alternative herbal treatments. She died in 3 years while a neighbour of mine survived for 25 years of the same breast cancer because she went to hospital.

"Scientifically proven" does not necessarily mean a thing has to be investigated by scientist, since any individual can investigate if a thing works themselves. We do it with all medications we take be they herbal or more rigourously tested medicines. We take them, and if we survive, they've worked. And that's us doing science, as in, using our own senses to judge a thing. If I then recommend that cure to someone else, the least I could do, if I'm the honest educated sort, is keep records of the outcomes, which is just more science, as it gives me data that I can objectively consider. That's the sort of "science" the TB Joshuas of this world don't do that makes us skeptical of their claims. At best they present anecdotal evidence. In reality they are scammers.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTfKpAWkgJY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZbR5DMksDE

Nonsense .

I explained how I tried othordox medicine first , in and outside Nigeria for years . Why did you miss that part . Do you know where I went to and the money I spent ?

As for scientific proven you don't know what it really means in the sciences ,just like you don' also know what is scientific theory.

I saw how you displayed your ignorance in another thread concerning that .

Meet with a real scientist to teach you, one on one, what both really means ,and stop depending on what you read on Wikipedia.

What is scientific evidence ,

https://theconversation.com/scientific-evidence-what-is-it-and-how-can-we-trust-it-14716

budaatum:
Yes, Triple, if matter means physical substance in general, which occupies space and possesses rest mass, and despite my hesitance at the word, "emerge".

Mind and consciousness are inherent in living things (as opposed to your "emerged" ), which are matter because they have physical substance which occupies space and possesses rest mass.

That is not to say all physical substance which occupies space and possesses rest mass has a mind and or consciousness as one would note from observing a rock.

[url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind%E2%80%93body_problem]Here's a link[/url] to some reading explaining how the mind and body (matter) are interlinked. It should get you up to speed.

Good .
Then provide evidence in support of your ,yes,

It must be peer reviewed ,not wikipedia articles which contains soeculatory theories .

triplechoice:
[b]So once again ,tell us ,based on what you know, has mind or consciousness emerged from matter ? Yes or no.

The last time you refused to answer and I hope you don't do so again.

And if you don't answer directly this time ,then it means you are engaged in deceptive arguments .


You cannot argue strongly for and against something at the same time . Only a confused person would act that way and end up contradicting himself along the way .

. [/b



You cant deceive me Buda.. Tell us where you stand and stop hiding behind Lordreed .Use your own brain to think and share your own thoughts first, before sharing wikipedia articles in support .

That's how it's done .

@ budaatum, you have started to deflect again . Just answer the question first ,then will gladly respond to you mentions .

Where do you stand . Has mind emerged from matter .? Yes or no

Lordreed and others have stood for something and been defendiing it .

You cannot deceive me with your chameleonic antics

budaatum:
Triple, let us not rely on guess work. Gods forbid, but if you fall ill I am guessing you will not go to a herbalist for a herbal remedy that is not scientifically proven unless you are broke and poor. Tell me you wouldn't go to a scientifically trained medical doctor instead.

I admit it's anecdotal evidence and not reliable, and that is why added until scientifically proven , to make you understand my position on it. .

If you cannot find what is scientifically proven , you can try the one's proven anecdotally ,to work ,pending the time it will properly investigated by scientist who may end up after all confirming it's good . If they say it's not good or toixc ,then abandoned it.

Even in the sciences ,people are sometimes adviced to stop using a particular medication once further test proves it's harmful or can cause adverse side effects .



Most discoveries in the sciences are inspired by anecdotal evidence .

I know you don't know this , hence the reason you have regurgitated what you read online about anecdotal evidence , without giving a thought to at all to how it can be helpful .

I'm afraid you are displaying extremist thinking , Buda.

budaatum:
Triple, let us not rely on guess work. Gods forbid, but if you fall ill I am guessing you will not go to a herbalist for a herbal remedy that is not scientifically proven unless you are broke and poor. Tell me you wouldn't go to a scientifically trained medical doctor instead.

If orthodox medicine cant treat it ,you look for a good alternative to save your life if you value it .

Some people who find themselves in a situation like that have done so and got cured .

I once found my self ,in such a situation .

And after four years within and outside Nigeria meeting with different doctors running tests of different kinds ,medications ,in both tablets and injections ,It was easily cured using an alternative ,not yet proven scientifically , at a cost of only 2 thousand naira .

I went for text after and nothing is showing again .

It has been over 8 years now ,not repeat of those hellish times .

So I learnt something , if I exhaust all the things main stream science can provide for me through doctors and nurses ,and don't find solution ,then I look elsewhere . It has simple that.

This is what I do now . How you choose to live your life depends on you . I can only share my experiences for others to learn from . It's your prerogative to accept or reject . .



All of that aside ,what we are currently discussing is a deviation from the actual conversation I was having with Reed , and it's because you went off on a tangent .


The main focus is , did consciousness or mind emerged from brain or matter , I said no, and
have given my own reasons, which some other people around the world also accept and agree to.

But you , have never for once answered the question to enable one know where you stand on the matter .

So once again ,tell us ,based on what you know, has mind or consciousness emerged from matter ? Yes or no.

The last time you refused to answer and I hope you don't do so again.

And if you don't answer directly this time ,then it means you are engaged in deceptive arguments .


You cannot argue strongly for and against something at the same time . Only a confused person would act that way and end up contradicting himself along the way .

And that's what has happened to you when you suggested ignorantly that the brain is what causes precognition .

No neuroscientist has ever affirmed that the brain is responsible for precognition .What they normally say is either we don't know or it's concindence or chance .

The reason they say so is because of the knowledge of the natural laws which controls the functioning of the human brain ;

mind, according to science ,cannot separate from the brain to make one have an external visual awareness of something A.K.A OBE..

Mind should not be confused for consciousness ,the real person, inhabiting a physical body and using it to experience live materially .

Precognition is a kind of OBE where the individuals consciousness expand beyond the confines of the physical body and the brain, to perceive events in the future time track to know what is to come . It can happen in the dream or waking state . Most people only know of the latter and conclude based on that, it's just a dream . One can experince precognition with one' s eyes wide open ,with what is seen, viewed in one's inner mental screen like a movie ..

The brain cannot make this happen due to its limitations . There's a limit to which it can preceives anything . The knowledge of how the brain works is why neuroscience says precognition is not possible from a scientific point of view, and have been coming up with all manner of speculatory theories to explain it away,yet everyday in different parts of the world people continue to have the experience. It's a case of seeing the evidence and denying it.

But however ,the honest one's who are not in denial ,will simply say we don't know, or it can't be explained . That ends the matter .

But you buda, who is ignorant of all of the science behind how the human brain works has suggested ignorantly and naively, it's the brain . Just go and prove it then ,and earn a nobel prize in the sciences . Goodluck

If you going to reply to this ,first of all state your position ,without which the conversation has ended .

I don't have the time to discuss with someone who maintains an ambivalent position on something being discussed . That's the typical behaviour of a deceptive and dishonesty argumentator who wants to talk frolm both sides of the mouth to avoid being pinned down on anything he cannot defend .

You cant deceive me Buda.. Tell us where you stand and stop hiding behind Lordreed .Use your own brain to think and share your own thoughts first, before sharing wikipedia articles in support .

That's how it's done .

budaatum:
You should at least be sufficiently "properly trained to carry out scientific research concerning the things" you plan to sell to the public don't you think? Most societies have their NAFDAC to ensure not properly trained you don't sell your untested snake skin oil to the public.

See d kind person I dey argue with . Chai.

Not everyone can do so doesn't mean some people aren't doing that or have done so in their own way . People can use a product base on anecdotal evidence pending the time it would be scientifically proven .

And how do you know if I have not done my own reseaech concerning the things I know?

These are natural abilities people are born with ,and can be also developed if you know how . So don't get it twisted with something external to the individual . I have put herbal products in quotes, in my recent reply ,and again you were blind to it .

. Scientist use the placebo effects in drug trials ,even when they don't yet know why the brain makes it work . Why dont you go ask them to stop using it since it's not yet scientifically proven .

Not everything people use and consume has been validated by main stream scientists . Some of it would probably be investigated later, others not ever

And as they usually say around here , know that ,and know peace .

If you want to know how to have precognitive dreams , learn to meditate and write down dreams . Do this stop and stop being an extremely cynical person who doubts everything unless proven to them .

With that ,you will have your own prove and stop bothering me .

Too much of everything is bad . It's good to be sceptical , but too much of it according to trained pyschologist is bad for ones mental health which may lead to poor decision making .

There are studies on this if you check the net


Good day .

budaatum:
This is just utter nonsense. If a remedy effects a cure, it has worked. And that work is the evidence of its efficacy. And scientist will search to discover why it works because that's what scientists do, they find causes for effects, and effects for causes.

You are yapping nonsense because you don't know the difference between anecdotal evidence and scientific evidence . And why did you not specify what remedy this time .

You want to deceive yourself . We are talking about herbal remedy which sometimes is not scientifically proven and not any other kind . Stick with that .

And if one scientist ignores that effect or cause, many others wouldn't so science can not ignore. But who goes looking for "no evidence it can effect a cure" just because "people are already using it everywhere to treat themselves with perfect results"? Hasn't research shown numerous so called cures that have had no effect despite the user claiming they have? Should objective evidence of a cure not be ascertained before you claim it works?

I guess its to do with how your brain works. But I would however leave you with some wise words once uttered.
https://www.nairaland.com/6589774/sandra-ezekwesili-prophet-tb-joshua/6#102467464

Gibberish and irrelevant nonsense you brought in.

I'm not interested in guess work to know how my consciousness work. If you depend on that ,goodluck .i

People don't have cognitive dreams because they believe in it
It has nothing to do with believe It's a natural phenomenon . Even atheist have such dreams that come to pass .

budaatum:
Of course there's a difference in cause and effect, but you only find out what makes a thing work after you have ascertained sufficiently that it works, and both require detail records of the method used for both which is what science is.

Not everyone is properly trained to carry out scientific research concerning the things they use or consume . You didnt make any sense here.

Of course "not so"! You first have to have competence in the chosen field and your research has to show significant improvements on previous research for anyone to bother, and the reason they would bother is because there's money in doing so. And it's not true you can't fund your own scrutiny. Companies do it all the time, and even pay to have results fiddled, though they are usually rumbled in the end.

You answered your previous comments here . There must be competence in carrying out research . Not everyone can do it .

The local woman who sells local herbal remedies lack competence to scientifically explain how what she sells work .

As long as it's not toxic, please allow her to sell her products in peace . Look elsewhere for your cure .

At least you see the sense why products manufactures should not do so .

budaatum:
Coming from a home shared by a medical professional, I can't possibly be that stupid and ignorant.

Cure for temperature amongst many is to cover the shivering person in lots of clothing which rises their temperature even further. Some don't have fits but many do and die, but ask those who live and they'd claim it works.

Once, ma got called by a parent in the neighbourhood. Her daughter was burning hot, please help. On arrival, ma took child's temperature, quickly took child's clothes and blanket coverings off child and dunked (I exaggerate small), child in the woman's Coca-Cola cooler. Minutes later the child's temperature dropped and after being treated for malaria the child was well a few days later.

That's why we do science, as in keep objective records of the tests we do that prove a thing works or not. This objective evidence we record is what shows whether a thing worked or not, and if it works, we do more science to find out what makes it work.


Your subjective truth, you mean, which you are trying very hard but failing to present as some sort of objective truth?

Seriously, I am surprised you'd think your claims would not be scrutinised here. You'd think your time here would have thought you it would, but I guess you might have failed to consider the feedback you been getting.

The alternative, which I am very certain many others get here is, use your senses to check all spirits. It's even in a book read by many, though I don't expect you to see it in that context.

You failed already and just grasping at straws .

How can you scrutinize what you are clueless about ?

What do you know about most of the things I have mentioned . Nothing.

Do they teach them in regular schools? . No

Do you have any direct experience on any of these things. No .

So tell me, what have you been depending on to examine them ?

Can t you see you have been acting irrationally with your failed attempts to make mockery of what I have so far presented ?

I have advised you before ,Stick to what you know so you don't continue to overreach yourself . You have fumbled already ,and without shame still want to continue .

You don't know the difference between precognition and premonition .

You don't know what a 'third eye ' refers to . You think it's a real third eye in the middle of ones head .Lol . I Shared a link to educate you ,but won't read it because you think you know everything .

You don't know the technical meaning of NDE ,nor do you know the difference between OBE and NDE,.

The worst part you don't know what constitute a valid scientific research ,or what scientific evidence really means amongs scientist who use that technical expression all the time .

Despite not understanding any of these ,you want to believe you are in a position to advise me to use my senses , when you have learnt how to use yours very well? I think something is really wrong with you .You need help

The only thing you are good at is clowning yourself with you other fiend


BTW none of the things I have mentioned are my subjective truths ,but truths about the human being and the world we live iñ ,which most people are not aware of.

They have become my own truths because I have earned them from some of the understanding I have gotten from how my consciousness operates . Are you aware of how yours. You should channel your attention there ?

Please just ignore me if what I present here is causing you cognitive dissonance . Both of us cannot have the same life experiences . Look to yours and learn from it .

Sages of old have advised ,'man know thyseif ' what do you know of yourself ?

What are you ?

You like to use the Bible , and it says , 'the kingdom of God is within you . What does this mean ?


I replied Lordreed, not you .Give him the space to respond if he wants to and don't derail my conversation with him.

If you think my claims are not scientifically proven, ( you don't even know what that means ) then don't buy my 'herbal products '

But as long as I have issued a disclaimer , I acted responsibly and so free to 'sell'. Please look elsewhere for your cure . I don't have what you are looking for .

Thank you .

Maynmann:
Most pharmaceutical drugs are “herbal”.

A person coming up with a herbal drink that’s medicinal is practicing Science already.

Is “science” synonymous with “white” people?


All these people selling herbs in the market know how fermentation and other scientific method works and its effects to produce it. They know what leaves contain which and which vitamins, all these are part of “science”.

I agree with you mayman ,but your observation is not the bone of contention here .

I have advised you before to go back and read how it all started so you don't misconstrue me again and again .

And where did I say science is synonymous with white people ?

In 1946, a man called John Godley – then a student at Oxford University – dreamt he was reading a list of horse race winners in a newspaper and saw the names Bindal and Juladdin. The following day he checked a newspaper and found that two horses with those names were running that day. He risked a bet with a group of friends; both horses won, and the group won large sums of money.

article continues after advertisement
Godley had the same experience several times over the following years. The fourth time he had such a dream, he made a written statement of his predictions (again involving two horses), which was witnessed by several people, sealed in an envelope, stamped by a post office official, and locked away until the day of the race. When this prediction came true, Godley became famous.

The standard scientific reaction would be to explain this story in terms of coincidence, exaggeration, or fraud. Many scientists are convinced that psi phenomena such as precognition do not exist. However, I am open to the existence of such phenomena. This is partly because, on occasion, I have experienced them myself. I have also had a few precognitive dreams related to sport. It’s not as though I dream about sports matches regularly. I can only recall a few such dreams. But on most of these occasions, the details of my dreams have been correct.

Continue here,



https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/out-the-darkness/202107/the-possibility-precognition%3famp

Is precognition a possibilty and are there benefits for possessing this ability

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/out-the-darkness/202107/the-possibility-precognition%3famp

budaatum:
If you found a way to ascertain it works, nothing is wrong with that at all. Just that we will ask you to provide us with the tests and studies you did to ascertain it works, and we will perform those tests ourselves to ascertain it works too. We wouldn't just take your word for it.

"Herbal products in the market comes with this disclaimer" because it has not been proven to cure what they claim. Its like if you found a way to ascertain it works but refuse to provide evidence of your claim for scrutiny or scrutiny of your tests failed to ascertain what you claim you ascertained, when you bottle it to sell, we will insist you label it with "the claims of cure in this product is not yet proven", and that's provided you prove it's not toxic, in which case we shall not let you sell it all. Snake oil would come under that label except those who sell it leave it off to deceive.

You don't still get it.

There's a difference between ,'it works ' and 'what makes it to work .

There are herbal remedies in the market , right now,which are very effective in curing some ailments that main stream scientist have yet to find a cure for .

Most people, who use them, know they work , not because they carried out any scientific studies or test of their own before usage ,but because it has helped them personally to treat a particular ailment they once sufferred from ,and also know of millions of others who have also benefited in the same way .

The product manufacturer may have carried out scientific research on his own to know why it works and is sure about that ,but not yet confirmed by other scientist .


Scientific analysis or study done by others in the main body of sciences to determine if an herbal product , or claim ,can effect a cure goes through a very strict and rigorous process.. In most cases ,it usually takes time and huge amount of funding to conduct .

Scientists and regulatory agencies , don't always have all the funds available each time to ascertain all claims of cure ,or any other kinds of claims ,made by anyone, or group of persons . Different claims keep coming up every now and then .



Another another thing you need to know is that , the person who is making the herbal claim is not allowed to provide the funding for such confirmation in order not to unduly influence what other scientist will be doing to validate it.



It's because you are unaware of what goes on within the scientific community ,you just assume that if an individual scientist or group of scientist present their own research findings for just about anything for verification, then it will be investigated immediately . Not so.

You have used to personal pronoun ,we' as if you are a trained scientist and so know better when infact you are clueless about some of those things .Don't pretend what you are not to win argument . Be yourself .

Everything is not investigated and not everthing will be investigated . You as an individual will sometimes need to do that yourself instead of waiting lazily all the time for scientist to come up with something before you start taking advantage of it.



Those in the main body of the sciences are not too keen to validate herbal claims ,especially if there's already an orthodox cure available . We all saw that during the covid 19 pandemic .

There's politics in the sciences too. Morever ,Scientist are also humans with their own
personal bias which sometimes influences their decision making .

I'm not against scientist or science ,far from it ,but only follow it with common sense, and not just swallow everything and end up being used as a guinea pig , or start acting irrationally based on wrong conclusion arrived at in the sciences which will be later abandoned for another .

However ,there are enough reasons to trust scientists more than pastors ,but one should always apply common sense .



People are always coming up with different claims of cure ,some very good ,others empty claims .

So in the absence of scientific validation by the 'we' ,how do we know which claim is true or false ?

It's by verifying it ourselves , and using it ,if not toxic, while waiting waiting for confirmation from the ' we'


. If it's not toxic and works ,without scientific validation, use it. .



This is my position .

And why are you against this and don't want me to speak my truth which others who don't know about it could benefit from ?

The worst part you have not provided any reasonable alternative .

budaatum:
This is just utter nonsense. If a remedy effects a cure, it has worked. And that work is the evidence of its efficacy. And scientist will search to discover why it works because that's what scientists do, they find causes for effects, and effects for causes. And if one scientist ignores that effect or cause, many others wouldn't so science can not ignore. But who goes looking for "no evidence it can effect a cure" just because "people are already using it everywhere to treat themselves with perfect results"? Hasn't research shown numerous so called cures that have had no effect despite the user claiming they have? Should objective evidence of a cure not be ascertained before you claim it works?

I guess its to do with how your brain works. But I would however leave you with some wise words once uttered.
https://www.nairaland.com/6589774/sandra-ezekwesili-prophet-tb-joshua/6#102467464

If I found a way to ascertain it works , what is wrong with that ?

Do you know the reason why some herbal products in the market comes with this disclaimer , 'the claims of cure in this product is not yet proven '

budaatum:
You will teach me through the wall with your third eyes no doubt.

You are very predicted . I know you will respond this way to avoid dealing with the embarrassment your stupidity has caused you .

Look for someone else to teach you , or teach yourself .old fool who doesn't know the difference between precognition and premonition .

What is third. eye and where did I say I have a third eye .

Third eye is in quotes .Werey who doesn't know that if an expression is in quote it doesn't mean it literally. Dumbo

Maynmann:
No, scientists can’t explain it not science.

One of the characteristics of a monotheistic deity is “omni’science”, science is the only way to know and understand the universe.

The better we get at science the better it is for everyone .

You jumped into something you didnt even bothered to check what has gone on before now .

The discussion is not centered on any monotheistic deity or any kind of deity whatsoever . I'm not a theist .


You don't know the issue under contention . It's as simple as that .


Read first so you understand why I made that comment you have responded to . It has nothing to do with what you think .

Who here has listened to Davido's hit jamb, already topping the charts in 17 countries and still counting

Dem go feel it ' !

Honestly this is the first I time have liked his music , and have been playing it on repeat as I type all of this .

Dem go feel it , dem go

I'm sure someone is feeling it here

Some blind followers of science here don't understand what it really means to say something doesn't find scientific support yet ,but it's truth.

Some herbal remedies which are far effective than the orthodox ones sometimes don't find supported yet , . The truth here, is that it works ,but since scientist have not been able to identify the active constituents in the plant which gives it its healing property ,they will declare before they know it , that there is no evidence it can effect a cure ,even when people are already using it everywhere to treat themselves with perfect results .

Some ignoramous here dont understand this ,and carry this lack of understanding into every discussion , ' if it's not scientific proven it's not true ' or it can work who says

Go and educated yourself properly what is scientific evidence or scientific proven in the sciences , and how it's used .

Don't use your layman understanding to interpret technical terms in the sciences . You will only end up making a fool of yourself .




There are alternative methods to knowing truth in the world we live in , before main stream scientist could validate it.



Scientist only validate truths already existing nature , they don't create them and don't yet know everyone of the truths in this physical universe we collectively share as humans .

And anyone can stumble on this truths themselves if they know how , without having to wait for trained scientists which we all trust to do so before we know and accept them .

Half education is dangerous .

budaatum:
I will quote you as much as I want actually and subjectively.

And I will continue to expose your ignorance each time you do so ,and I just did that . Lol

You don't yet know what you into , or the person you are discussing with, if not ,you would have avoided me.

You are about to learn the hard way

I

Very embarrassing for someone who claimed to have schooled in England not to know the difference between precognition and premonition .

Here
Truths in the world science still can't explain.

https://www.sciencealert.com/9-phenomena-that-science-still-can-t-explain

Is there a ' third eye' . What actually is it.

https://www.verywellmind.com/opening-your-third-eye-7501747

I have maintained that some of the things I present here are not fully supported by science ,but it doesnt mean they are not true , people have experienced them and these experiences ,scientist says, happen ,but can't be explained

There are truths not yet supported by science . Blind followers of science are ignorant of this fact .

The placebo effect is one of the truths science cannot explain, that is they still don't know the cause ,but know it works ,hence it's used in drug trials .