₦airaland Forum

Thomasankara:
[/color]well done,its like u know much about her family [color=#770077]

Tell me what you know about her family.

I'm waiting

Gemma11:
She is from a poor home. Her mother still cooks with firewood in Abuja. Also during the press conference, the mother told about their humble beginnings where she was cooking in the bush when she started her food business.

And so, because of what you have just told us, you believe she must be a prostitute? Yes or know?


I don't think you know what it really means to come from a poor home.

There are rich people whose children are living almost as paupers, and vice versa.


And what's wrong in starting from an humble beginning?

Do you have evidence the mother is still cooking with fire wood in Abuja. She started cooking with fire doesn't mean she's still doing so.


I only expressed an opinion. You free to reject it and choose to believe what you want to believe.. I'm not stopping you.

AutoRedux:
Mugu.

Hilda na pure runs girl.

Your Papa.

Stupid generalisation from people who cannot think.


The young lady is not from a poor home. Morever, she has thriving business which doesn't give her enough time for herself , not to talk of other people

So why would she prostitute?,

Or do some persons assume prostitution is a hobby that girls go into just like that?

Some young ladies dress skimpily to draw attention to themselves and nothing more.

If you don't have close female friends, you wouldn't know this.

It's stupid to judge people by their appearance alone .

I call it 'SARS' mentality, If you carry bushy hair, iPhone, and laptop then, you must be an internet fraudstar.

if you don't know everything about a person what you conclude about them may not be the correct thing.

G00DHardDick:
All these ones ain't necessary.

She be prostitute abi she no be prostitute? Ur guess is as good as mine. She's just an olosho who needs world recognition.

You're confusing yourself.
You don't even know the meaning of the idiom, Your guess is as good as mine', if you knew, you wouldn't have used it and later conclude she's 'just an olosho'.

Be sure of the words you use to express yourself,,and also learn not to judge people by their appearance.

Myths are not annoying. It's the attitude of those who take them literal these days that is annoying.

The ancients who created the myths never meant for them to be taken literally


Myths were employed by our primitive forbears either to indirectly inculcate certain cultural values in the minds of children before they become adults, or used as stopgap explanation for natural phenomenon

Origin myths, for instance, were meant to teach that the world has a beginning.

In the sciences, we have 'myths' too. Scientists would sometimes come up with some explanation, which are not fully supported by facts, to temporarily explain a certain happening pending the time it would be fully understood and a more rational explanation provided



So, the focus when it comes to mythical stories should be on the lessons behind them or what they're meant for, and not just the surface meaning alone, if not ,we miss the point and end up not being different from those who take such fictional tale as true narrative of what actually happened in the past.


Modified. The 'myths' in the two popular Abrahamic religion ,Islam and Christianity are a misinterpretation of the mythical stories in Judaism. So one cannot really take them as myths in the true sense of the word

This is for the person who is ignorant of what's modern science

chieveboy:
You're still in the box I'm sorry. This tendency could be why Eckankar didn't work for you. It may be not. From the statement about having to "go through an academic setting" as requirement for belonging in your illusory 'body of science' or to be "trained to conduct research..." sums up the hight of this predilection to put it mildly.

Have you heard of the word 'autodidact' before? Have you heard of the man Nikola Tesla before? What about Thomas Edison? what about Einstein, do you know what age he taught himself algebra?

You don't need to bother yourself replying this. Your responses are now disordered due to your unnecessary prevarication and strawmaning. This reply will be in two parts, and after this ,no more from me. This is the first.


Your latest ranting above is another desperate attempt to blur the lines between trained scientists who have acquired ,from academic settings, the competence to conduct scientific research to advance knowledge, and individual self trained scientists who also have a role to play in the advancement of knowledge.

I have never said that the Teslas of this world should be disregarded or ignored as scientists because they have not acquired standard university education. I only tried to highlight the fact that ,unlike in the past, modern societies are structured to operate in a particular way. You must learn to fit in, no matter what you believe in or don't believe, or else you're on your own and find it difficult to survive. Even Paul Twitchell had to register Eckankar in keeping with US laws. So ,what are you talking about?


Trained scientists in academic settings are not the same as any other kind of scientists. The former currently enjoy certain support, privileges
and recognition whereverr they find themselves because it's believed they are serving humanity openly and not hiding.

You're comparing apples and oranges. They're both fruits, but not the same kind of fruit. You need to understand where I'm coming from so you don't continue to misrepresent me here.


I'm neither in support nor against any kind of scientists. I use what works very well from either because I know that there are alternative methods to validate truth, but this is not taught in regular schools.


How do you validate Eckankar truths?. You have been silent on that.


As for your assumption that it's because Eckankar failed me that's why I'm here on this thread, then you're mistaken. What would you say about a former living Eck master ,a former Eckankar president, RESA, and several other higher initiates from the fifth level and above ,who have all abandoned the path, is it because Eckankar failed them too? There's so much you still don't know about Eckankar. Ask questions from the right places, and compare it with what you are told . That's how to investigate anything to be sure.

The box you're thinking from is not allowing you see the paradox in how 'academic scientists' (who are your "main body of scientists" are organized to study what the other scientists who didn't go to school created. It's subtle, but not!

When was this your quasi statute made sef? Who did?

I'm not thinking from any box, and there's no paradox. What I explained above is clear enough .
You want to live in denial of the truth by pretending not to know what's currently happening around you so you can continue to believe.

What was invented in the past by the Teslas, Graham's, and others, have been greatly improved upon by modern scientists trained in universities. True or false?

You want to use what happened in a different era to judge what's obtainable in the present moment. It doesn't make sense.

Your statements are very revealing of your level of education.


The Wright brothers who succeeded in flying a plane for the first time never attended any university to study science. They were self trained. They succeeded because during their time in the US every kind of scientists had the freedom to experiment publicly , without much harassment from any regulating agency.

Imagine if it were now, would do you think would happen if the American government sees some persons experimenting with a flying object made of iron for the first time?

They will surely be arrested for trying to endanger their own lifes and those of the public.

You still live in the past and still think we're in the sixties.

You don't want anyone to investigate, question, or regulate what you present here, hence you have been trying to attack my personality and disparage well known scientific bodies or institutions that are set up to protect the public from pseudoscientist like you.

If you say, they're are your beliefs and not yet supported by science or scientifically proven, then no problem. Nobody will argue with you. But to lie it's exact science, is deceiving the public.

If Eckankar is true or exact science, why are you shielding it from public scrutiny?

You want people to take the risk, without proper investigation?

Science is science sir! Nothing like "main science" even if said metaphorically or otherwise. You only have a categorization and sub-categorizations of it as natural, social and so on, but of course!

No sir. 'Science is not science' There's pseudoscience and true science. Morever, Natural sciences( physics, chemistry and biology) are not the same as the social sciences. The former is more exacting than the later. A little Google search will confirm this for you.

Ok , forget the term,'main body of science', but at least you now understand what I have used it to refer to, and tell me what category will you place Eckankar science. Please be definite about this. If you say it's like physics ,or above it, then explain in detail how.

And,I hope you don't disappoint this time around because you haven't been able to directly answer to anything you have declared so far.

Stating that Eckankar is part of the natural sciences I repeat would be an understatement by me. It's actually the other way round. All natural sciences and others are actually parts of Eckankar, as in offshoots of Eckankar.

This is what I'm talking about. Empty words as usual.

I can paraphrase what you explained above and still come up with the same nonsense.

Here we go,

'All natural sciences and others are actually part of jugologu, as in offshoots of jugologu'

See what I mean?

You have actually been actually talking to yourself and your group members who only understand what you mean.

How exactly is physics and chemistry an offshoot of eckankar?

You haven't been able to correctly answer.

An understatement means I didn't make that statement glamorous enough, if 'selling' it as a natural science stirred the "defender of the realm" in you, where you would not have it simplified as that 'amiable' subject where people you "love" may fall for it, I am here saying all scientists are studying is Eckankar. I am saying Natural Sciences are Eckankar. I think this makes it juicier than before, so you may have more work at hand...

'defender of the realm' lol. It remains for you to use the other one, agent of Kal' or working for the Kal'

The irony in Eckankar is this , Eckankar will warn you of something other people can do to you, or label others as something bad to earn your trust to make you think they won't do it to you or they're not that thing they warned you of. And the next thing, they're doing to you what they warned you of , or they're actually the thing they call others.

Anyone who wants the public to use their head to investigate a path very well before they join it ,is not a 'defender of the realm', but a soul that seeks for the spiritual freedom of others.

A lot of persons are ensnared in different spiritual movements in the world today, and don't even know it because they're have been put to sleep.


I will stop for now so I don't give you much to read. I sense you don't take time to read everything hence your strawmans or misrepresentation of what I keep explaining.

Part two will come

And after then, I leave you. I'm not interested in opening a thread to discuss further.

Nigerians regard past leaders as 'past thieves'

JezB:
I keep seeing myself in the dream having a very long hair on my head. Sometimes the hair may be in thick locks like dreads or other times they may just be huge. I have been having this dream repeatedly and I don't know the meaning. I am a bit anxious because I want to know the meaning. I feel like it has a significant meaning that is why I keep dreaming about it. I have searched for the meaning on Google but they are different interpretations leaving me even more confused and worried.

PS: I don't imagine or fantasize about keeping dreads. I keep a low cut and I am comfortable with it.

You're the only one that can correctly decode the meaning of the dream.

Recurring dreams may be telling you that something you are currently involved in, or facing in life, has some similarity with what you have experienced in the past.

Your mind is reacting as if the current situation is the same as before. If you understand what the dream symbol (long hair or dreadlocks) mean personally for you, then you're closer to understanding the cause of the dream.



What do you associate dreadlocks with?


How do you regard or feel about people who carry long hair or dreads?

Answer the above question sincerely ,and don't be surprised that the next time you have the same dream you will wake up with the instinctive knowledge of what it means.

I'm tempted to interpret your dream because of the clue contained in your last statement, but won't do so since I don't know you personally.

And it's not good thing to allow strangers to interpret your dreams as they may use their own personal experience to do so and give you a wrong interpretation.

Kobojunkie:
1. Oh, I thought you meant you keep having dreams where you hear different lengths but the same dream. Check out what the dream foundation says about recurring dreams, and a recent scientific release on how recurring dreams have to do with fear of failure
https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/09/health/recurring-dreams-meaning-cause-wellness/index.html

The article never said recurring dream as to do with fear of failure alone.

The dreamer is the only person in a better position to understand why they have a recurring dream.

exotique1fy:
Truth is relative to the observer. We will both look at truth and see different things. Perspective and context matters in issues referred to as truth.

Just like the truth that you're the same person who typed the above . Is that also relative?

exotique1fy:
You are welcome. It was given out of love

Thanks.
Love should support what's true

exotique1fy:
Give it a rest will you

Thanks for your unsolicited advice.

chieveboy:
There is no such a thing as "main body of science". There is no "box" as it where. It is a 'free-for-all' towards breaking new frontiers of knowledge. The box way of doing things is an illusion animated by Interest Groups who you may be referring to as "main body of science".

The expression, 'main body of scientist' is not the name of a specific scientific body which scientists everywhere belong to.

It refers to all trained scientists in academic settings, who have acquired the competence to conduct scientific research in order to advance knowledge in any of the main branches of the natural sciences, such as, physical science, life science, and earth science, and not just any individual scientists who is self trained and working on his own.


Social sciences and the other branches of the sciences , unlike the natural sciences, are not exacting in their results and because of this, are not regarded as the main science. Social scientists don't belong to the main sciences, but can combine with those in the main science like neuroscientist to investigate natural phenomenon in order to arrive at a definite conclusion.

You obviously don't know the difference between trained scientists in the natural sciences and the other kinds of scientists that exist, or you know, but had blurred the lines initially to mislead your followers by declaring falsely that Eckankar is part of the natural sciences, such as physics or chemistry, which are more exacting in their results.

Later, you backtracked after realising it won't work, and declared you only made and understatement. That's not how to understate something.


Yes, anyone can be a scientists in a sense, but the modern definition of a scientist, is what I already explained. You must have undergone a course of study in any of the branches of the sciences in either a University or research institute.

There's a ' box' in the sciences, whether main or social science. For instance, for you to belong to the Nigeria Medical Association, you must have earned it through your training and qualification. It's not an all comers affairs as you insinuated.


Singing you HU, soul travelling and calling on your spiritual master, Harold, will not gain you entry into any scientific body. You must be a trained scientists with an academic degree.



Eckankar teachings is classified as religious science ,and is no where near the exacting sciences, like physics, which gives definite results. It's deception to equate Eckankar with any of the natural sciences. You want your followers to place all their trust on something that's not as reliable as you present it. That's not good enough especially coming from someone who mentions the word, truth all the time.


If Eckankar science is exact, then Eck initiates, especially those of the fifth level and the above will be competent in conscious soul travel. Several higher initiates in Eckankar have not seen the light or hear the sound , not to talk of conscious soul travelling in the waking state.

Dream travel is the focus in Eckankar and since it's easy for anyone to dream, Eckankar can boast that its teachings are working very well. You don't need any dream master to understand your dream.

Dreams, for those who know the truth, is not a reliable means for knowing truth , or to have a real spiritual experience and growth.. It takes conscious soul travel to do that.

Unfortunately, Eckist are being shortchanged, but don't know it because Eckankar has misled them into thinking its teachings is the highest around and that no other one surpasses it.

You need to look outside Eckankar ' box' to know the truth.

Create a thread today. This one is for the supermen of the universes of God!

You will get your references. Good luck understanding them.

Lol. Empty boast again. You have not been able to provide any evidence for your claims, but unverified stories and more wild claims yet, you want me to open another thread so you continue with wayward dribbles that doesn't bring any result.

Keep your imaginary reference that only you can understand. This is not the first time you promised to provide references and end up not providing any.

Karma is real, but not as it's understood or described in most rellgion.

Karma simply means the consequences,. not punishment, arising. from one's physical and mental activity.

There's no higher power or gods that dole out karma to anyone.

Everyone is responsible for his or her karma.
You reap what you sow ,whether good or bad

Nobody can take away one's karma or bear it for you. Religious people are misled into thinking another person can take away their sin or karma. It's not true, but a lie used for converting people

If you do something you experience the consequences yourself, if you don't do anything you also suffer the consequences if not doing anything yourself.

If you dwell on negative thoughts all the time, it won't be long before depression sets in. On the other hand,If you dwell on positive thoughts all the time,you also reap the benefits in the form of good mood, or happy feelings.

If you eat garlic and onions for some days and don't brush your mouth, the consequence is people not wanting to get close to you. If you deliberately offend another person all the time, it won't be long before the person start resenting you. You reap friendship or positive response when you do good to others.

The, depression, good mood, avoidance, friendship, and resentment are all karmic consequences that has come from some actions taken in the past. This is how karma works. It's not punishment from any God

However, most people only focus on the negative aspect of karma, without being aware that people also reap the good they have sown too, which helps to balance out bad karma and make it possible they don't get overwhelmed by it.

Nobody is completely bad and no one is completely good. The politicians some people use as excuse to dismiss the principle of karma are people who may have sown positive karma, which helps to balance out their negative karma. Too much of everything is bad. That's what they say.

Those who struggle to see the connection between the things they do and the consequences that naturally follow are for the most part operating from a very low level of awareness. They're not fully conscious of what's going on around them, hence they dismiss the principle of karma.

Karma is a fact of life.

MaxInDHouse:
So you know JWs do assist non-jws, shey?

That makes your comment useless because i never said JWs don't help non-jws!

If JW can assist non members, then why are you still mocking someone who openly asked for help here a very long time ago?

Is he still asking you or anyone else for help after that time?

Did he specifically ask for help from you and JW members alone?

are JWs the only ones on this board who could have assisted him at that time?

I remembered you and your friend, Tatime, were
behaving diabolicaly during that period, in order to prevent other people from assisting the person who abandoned ego to seek help from the public.

Not only that, your friend, with your support, even embarrassed the wife when she came out here, while still lying down on the hospital bed where she just put to birth, to confirm that the plea was a genuine one.

Now, after that show of shame from both of you, you still want to regard yourself as one of the JWs who assist non members.


Speak for yourself, and don't hide behind other kind hearted JWs.

And, Just imagine they way you keep bringing up something everyone else as long forgotten.

You keep reminding us, and still continue to talk about it as if it just happened yesterday.


Old man maximum, wey dey behave like small pikin

SMH

MaxInDHouse:
I remember an atheist on this forum who always speak against faith in God but when his wife was in the hospital needing financial support this guy came here on this same forum begging religionists for money with his wife who claims she's a born again Christian both begging for financial assistance to foot the hospital bill. Well trust religionists nah they were giving him in the name of their gods and the funny atheist thanking them in the name of their god!

You are on your own.

Poverty-stricken and very selfish JWs are the ones I know, who like to use JW doctrine as an excuse not to assist those outside their group.

The wealthy JWmembers have no qualms in assisting non members.

If you only help your fellow JW, how are you different from a Boko Haram terrorist who would also do the same?

thesicilian:
Now you're just being emotional. That's why I said at the beginning that you're not really that much of a freethinker. Freethinkers are logical, not sentimental. Maybe you're still at the baby stages of your so called atheism. Like those women who claim to be independent feminists but can't afford to go Dutch on a date.
1. It was the Bible that labelled you a fool, not me.
2. There is something called principle, you might have heard of it. Or maybe you should find out what it means. Some people would rather die than accept to do certain things.
3. Partial knowledge can more often than not be more damaging than no knowledge at all. Do you think that prostitute you alluded to would have remained a prostitute after meeting with the men of God? She was a sinner before meeting them, but not likely to have remained so after. Do you think they'd have been sent to her by God if she was an unrepentant prostitute/sinner/atheist? Even the sinners and tax collectors Jesus dined with, was for the purpose of converting them, not to prove to others that he was woke. When they turned, they were welcomed into the body of Christ. And when they refused the gospel, they were left alone. The relationship didn't continue after rejection. Christianity is not democracy, majority don't have to agree with something to make it accepted in Christianity, there are sets of rules that must be followed.

And since this conversation has started to circle, this will probably be my last response here.

Lol.

Let's assume I displayed some emotions ,does it mean there's no truth in what I have said?

Instead of critically responding to my response, you have reacted emotionally by deflecting to feminism, democracy and what nots.

And if you were really using logic as you claim you wouldn't be so quick to abel me an atheist . What do you know about me.?

Did I announce myself an atheist?

Ok, You are free to end the conversation God's right hand man who knows how everyone in the world would turn out to be in the future.

thesicilian:
Lol
That is one of the idiosyncrasies of the Christian faith. But I think it boils down more to personal hypocrisies really. I personally would not ask for nor be too eager to accept help from someone whose belief systems are polar opposites of mine. Mostly because one day I may be obligated to return the favour in a manner that may not conform to my beliefs.

What business do you have with anyone who has made up his mind that everything you stand for is pure foolishness?

Life doesn't operate the way you think.

You may find yourself one day in a life and death situation where the only person willing and available to help you is that person you have labelled a ', fool'.

What would you do then, refuse the help and stand the risk of losing your life, thereby sending your friends and love ones into mourning?

As long as you live amongst different kinds of people, believers and non believers, don't ever rule out the possiblity that a day may come when the only person that's truly ready to offer instant help is that you least expect.

Remember, in the Bible, it was a prostitute , a person not regarded as knowing God, that hid the spies from those seeking to kill them.

Common sense and the humanity we all share is what's needed to handle certain situations.

thesicilian:
It's not really about having different belief systems, it's more about not being too inclined to help those who go completely against your belief system. As a Christian myself I'll more than willing to help a Muslim, a Hindu, an African traditionalist than an atheist. These people believe in God in one way or the other, unlike the fool who says there's no God (according to my Bible).

And if that 'fool' is your brother who is a multi billionaire, you won't hesitate to run to him for help when you need to, not minding his non belief.

Christians are reluctant to help anyone outside their fath, but would quickly accept assistance from anyone that offers it, not minding who they person is, with the excuse that God can use anyone to help them, even if it's the devil.

thesicilian:
I sense sarcasm, but like I said, if you're a true freethinker, you'd see the reality. It's like telling a fisherman you don't believe in fishing yet asking him to share his catch with you.

It's selfish behaviour to share what we have with only those who believe in what we do.

Redoilbeta:
Thanks for you inputs. I understand, But honestly, I wasn't Being Rude or Engaged them in any Form of Arrogance, I'm not the type at all, Also I'm still trying to fathom how I have bitten them.

I never even relate with them bringing up a discussion about Religion at all ,They just discovered I wasn't following them to church Programs anymore, the weekly Activities, I use to be very Sound and Eloquent when it comes to Evangelism...

They asked me reason I wasn't joining them anymore and I Humbly told them my stand now.

So they became Wild and Annoyed.

Well as many gave rightly Said... There is no Problem, It's a Matter of time, I will gets something to do, After all I wasn't a Lazy Person right from time...

Not Specifically I would get a help from an Atheist too, I didn't becomes an atheist because I wanted help from any, If it comes fine,if not fine also.

Just play along with them until you can survive on your own.

They have refused to help you as before because they want to have you back to church That's all.

You shouldn't expect things to ever be the same again when you choose to live in disharmony with the people whom you depend on for your sustenance in life.

It's either you find a way to live in harmony with them, or you find a way to stand on your feet.

Religious people everywhere strongly believe their god is responsible for whatever they get from life. Your non belief is now a threat to this belief.

You can't bite the finger that feeds you and still expect to be fed by it.



You just need to play along until you're able to survive on your own , if not ,it may be difficult.

chieveboy:
Please do create a thread on this and invite me. Scientists have long done justice to the matter of NDEs or OBEs as far back as the 70s. These guys (AWARE11) are rather elementary comparably. Thanks.

Who are the scientists please?

What did they conclude after the study?

Any link to the study report to enable one confirm your latest claim?

Because from what I know, nothing has been concluded yet in the main body of the sciences.. Scientists don't yet accept that consciousness can be separated from the brain.

I hope you provide proof this time around so that this claim of yours doesn't go the way of the others none of which you have yet to substantiate .

chieveboy:
You're taking it too far, what objective call confirmation had their methods and tools delivered so far? What qualifies as "confirmation"? 2D images and and some texts? I don't think so




True, and all we would and accept as fact or "proven" would then be mostly some aftereffects of 'reality' and facts that we take home as reality.

It becomes more unrealizable especially how results rely 100% on the hypothesis or theory inspiring the manufacture of the scientific tools and methodologies. You will see why I said this:

Natural science as far as it relies on physical tools, theories and hypothesis is a science of the aftermath of reality in it's most nearest meta-physical (not the stereo "metaphysical" ) definition, this is premised on the fact that the building blocks of what earthlings term reality are entirely non-local to our space-time domain. Basically, we're saying all we deal with here are aftermaths of 'finer' if not, 'true' realities.

This introduces the premise of half-truths or half knowledge which in most cases is an outright lie. Take the example of seeing a half moon and reporting it (A moon) as a crescent, and then all scientists in that domain build machines and methodologies that deals with crescents--disaster or a lie at best.





It's possible to see images my friend, and it had been done elsewhere already. I am not disposed to state where and by whom and pleeeease, move on and don't dwell on this. Didn't we all say that there is more than meets the eye?

Meanwhile, that the 'aware' guys didn't see images, sights and sounds means there are in the premise of half truths and outright lies. An OBE is not an MRI scan image neither is it whatever any 2D electronic data scientists chose to accept as a confirmation for an OBE. And OBE is an OBE, anything short of SEEing, BEing and KNOWing is a spectating of effects, and yes, Scientists in this same world we dwell do this (seeing, being and knowing).

That we should go with AWARE2's report for confirmation of NDE or OBE is an invitation to accept a very misleading information. We would only be romancing a mirage brought about by the 'granduer' of saying "we're scientifically proving NDE" and the drama surrounding the venture. We humans do that, for instance, we sold our kidneys for iPhone 4s.



This sounds like there isn't much to go home with is there? No harm in trying though, they should keep trying.



It took me 1 minute to probe and grasp this.

I am not sure how this makes sense by the end of the day given the basic meaning of the term. Scientists are saying a 'Veridical perception' is when someone is seeing a plate of Akpu and describing the Akpu they all know.

Question is when one is having an OBE, supposing they hear sounds humans do not hear? Does this pass as veridical? It's simple, the dogs hear the dog whistle but we humans do not. When a human now hears this during an OBE, are we saying hearing sounds at ultrasound level is hallucinatory?

This question is if we do not extend it to seeing Buildings, people, etc during NDEs and OBEs that do not look anything like our conventions.



I want to guess the root word in "Veridical" is "Very" because veridical basically means 'truth' according to the internet.

You statement here negates the meaning of a veridical perception. If you leave me, the term means imagining or "seeing" things that we have on earth and nothing more. Perception is not only via OBE. We perceive the smell of food daily and it's veridical. If we perceive food however and no obvious or hidden food around, we're hallucinating?That's the meaning of the term and it's application.





The skepticism arises from the issue about natural sciences I have told you earlier--that of studying and experimenting after-effects of reality. The drugs, the microscopes, the machines, etc are all inspired by second-class information. Not entirely bad because we dwell in the domain of after-effects and we can 'create' more of such for our daily lives. Half truths can be outright lies however.



I did, I was surprised to find that the research depends 90% on the experiences of people (see screenshot). People where made to identify pictures and events while outside their bodies. I recall you faulted this scientific method. How people come from no where and identify the ECK Masters like even me.

All the while, I was thinking AWARE2 'gets inside the head' of the Subjects with some special device, probe and send brain wave or activity scans as 2D images or frequencies.

Veridical perception lastly dismisses hallucinations", further on what I said earlier. It is a big mistake arising from too much romance with half knowledge and half truths which are lies mostly. If anything, hallucinations stretches the human sensoria to extents where further realities are observed comfortably or uncomfortably. Thanks

I will come back to respond to this later.

In the meantime you still don't understand what's veridical perception during NDE.

That's why you struggle to understand the article . Please do some further readings on the subject.

Finally ,nobody was made to identify pictures. as you put it. It's not possible to make an unconscious person during cardiac arrest to do such.a thing. They were only ask what they experienced during that period to see if it comes confirms with what was going on in that environment during that unconscious state when they are not supposed to have any kind of awareness.

Read what you wrote again and ask yourself, how is it possible for the researchers to make people identify pictures while outside their bodies? How can they see they're outside their bodies to start asking them that?

Read the article again.

chieveboy:
Firstly, merely judging by how in-your-face I had been with you, never could you have mistaken any of it as some (fake) humility.

In my outer life, I have taken on a certain group of 'giants' who further have potent juju...

Perhaps you didn't notice me until when you introduced whatever led to you getting it without unnecessary filters. It was an honest mistake on your path to mistake me for some meek Eckist as requested.


Secondly, I have consumed too many of such before requesting Eckankar membership. Too many. Some of the questions and comments you may find some of these anti-Eckankar forums may be mine. Some are even off the internet. I further saw when a new group left Eckankar creating their own path.

Attached is a screenshots that may pass as a de-marketing of Paul to you written by Harold Klemp himself.

How does it concern or affect me if you're a meek eckist or not. I cannot know everything about you from Nairaland. My reaction is from what you have displayed here on this board.

Concerning your so call demarketing of Paul by Harold, you surely don't know the complete story of why he did that.

chieveboy:
I can bet you $1 that whatever the report, all you're getting is 2D data as "confirmation". Since you know about the report, kindly summarize here. It will be nothing to go home with.

Brain effect of OBE experiences can be perfectly replicated with some of the fantastic drugs and herbs out there if you don't know. Alpha, Delta and theta states of the brain are just what the scanners wil be able to capture. Nothing more.

If you employ advanced means like Soul Travel however, you get the main thing like the scientist I told you of earlier whose report you're not getting online. So for science to properly investigate mere Supra physical event, they need better machines than 2D-reporting ones.

My question is, what do you know about the methods they're employing?

Scientists don't always see directly the things they're dealing with, but through the use of certain methods they're able to confirm if a particular element, not visible to the naked eye or instrumentation, is present somewhere. True or false?

AWARE11 researchers haven't gotten to the stage where they can see images( don't think that would ever be possible) in people's head.

They research is still at its elementary stage so nothing is completely confirmed yet.

At the moment,they're only concentrating on the veridical aspect of NDE in order to verify if the experience is hallucinatory or not. I admit they have some limitations, but it's not as you think.

So far, they have only succeeded in confirming just one case .Its not an easy task when you consider the nature of the experience.

If you don't know what's veridical perception during NDE, you won't understand what I'm talking about.



It's not possible to have veridical perception without an OBE.

However, skeptics have argued that it's not even possible to have an OBE in the first place.

So whom do we believe?

Do you know what veridical perception is during NDE and how it's confirmed?


It won't make sense to share a link about something you may not understand.

Go through the below

https://neuroskoki.pl/en/awareness-during-resuscitation-results-of-the-study/

chieveboy:
You will recall you used the AWAKE 2 as reference for a confirmation or verification of people having NDEs, and I reminded you that the AWAKE 2 if it merely focuses on the MRI image scans (I called it "brain dance images" and "brain postures" earlier) of people's brains, still does not pass a confirmation of anything EXCEPT if scientist are able to view in real-time the experience of the OBE subjects.

My point is:

1: Monks have been scanned when they are in high meditative state. The scans showed unbelievable brain activity. I suppose they'll be similar to those in AWAKE 2. Exception of course if AWAKE gives us video feedback of what the OBEd guy sees, smells, and feels.

2: If you would accept 2d images (MRI reports) as confirmation of a more grander occasion and experience, fine. Know however that in the case of similar scientific study and discipline like 'Past Life Regression', the experience of the subjects is the primary data for confirmation. Brain scan images are not used.

3: So personal experience even in Law is admissible if logical enough.

The only missing thing here is for scientists to develop interest to decide to converge and focus on the reports of Eckists on the Eck Masters.



Hundreds of thousands if not millions infact. In your romance with Eckankar, you must have come across how they often do not always market a religion or point people to any immediately. Also how these masters work with groups in diverse fields of study if it suits their mission. Rebazar Tarz and a particular Master not mentioned at all in the Eckankar literature is said to romance Hollywood resulting in movies that stretch the consciousness of man.

You have them Agriculture, Tech especially, Medicine and, Mysticism and so in. If you must know, Nigerians are part of what we call Eck Masters too.



Many:

1: Past Life relationships
2: Soul's readiness for Truth
3: Love
4: Divine Intervention



I must have made an understatement if at all I ever equated Eckankar with Natural sciences. Based on your antecedence l, what I can tell you is that what we call Natural sciences today are elementary mysticism or religion in advanced climes.

Science is even admitting to this--"The best of technology being equal or indistinguishable to magic".

Is this a joke or what?

Where are the advanced climes located where the natural sciences is being refer to as religion or mysticism currently?

Your final submission is only made by those who cannot distinguish between magic and the rational sciences

.[/quote]

chieveboy:
You will recall you used the AWAKE 2 as reference for a confirmation or verification of people having NDEs, and I reminded you that the AWAKE 2 if it merely focuses on the MRI image scans (I called it "brain dance images" and "brain postures" earlier) of people's brains, still does not pass a confirmation of anything EXCEPT if scientist are able to view in real-time the experience of the OBE subjects.

My point is:

1: Monks have been scanned when they are in high meditative state. The scans showed unbelievable brain activity. I suppose they'll be similar to those in AWAKE 2. Exception of course if AWAKE gives us video feedback of what the OBEd guy sees, smells, and feels.

2: If you would accept 2d images (MRI reports) as confirmation of a more grander occasion and experience, fine. Know however that in the case of similar scientific study and discipline like 'Past Life Regression', the experience of the subjects is the primary data for confirmation. Brain scan images are not used.

3: So personal experience even in Law is admissible if logical enough.

The only missing thing here is for scientists to develop interest to decide to converge and focus on the reports of Eckists on the Eck Masters.



Hundreds of thousands if not millions infact. In your romance with Eckankar, you must have come across how they often do not always market a religion or point people to any immediately. Also how these masters work with groups in diverse fields of study if it suits their mission. Rebazar Tarz and a particular Master not mentioned at all in the Eckankar literature is said to romance Hollywood resulting in movies that stretch the consciousness of man.

You have them Agriculture, Tech especially, Medicine and, Mysticism and so in. If you must know, Nigerians are part of what we call Eck Masters too.



Many:

1: Past Life relationships
2: Soul's readiness for Truth
3: Love
4: Divine Intervention



I must have made an understatement if at all I ever equated Eckankar with Natural sciences. Based on your antecedence l, what I can tell you is that what we call Natural sciences today are elementary mysticism or religion in advanced climes.

Science is even admitting to this--"The best of technology being equal or indistinguishable to magic"



I will let you have whatever arises from this assertion.

Eckankar however is not a belief path.

Anyone who believes anything from Eckankar without making effort to confirm is suffering from Social engineering of religion. Eckankar is not made for that.

These posts as you have been told are to inspire the spirit of adventure and exploration for one to know that perhaps, there may be more to the boundaries of religion.

But you have not been able to show how it's not based on a set of beliefs.

For instance, how is it not a belief that the living Eck master is God's only true representative on earth?
As for AWARE 11 , please stop mentioning anything about it because you have shown that you have no knowledge about what they're doing. They have no means to confirm or see what people experience subjectively, but have devise a means to verify what people report during NDE.

Go and read the report first before passing judgement. What you continue to say about AWARE 11 is completely off the mark and it's annoying you keep repeating it with the confidence of someone who's abreast with what is being done