Triplechoice's Posts
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MindHacker9009:Maybe it's because they know that the public would reject such information. or ask for proof, And if such a thing actually exist, I don't think those who are possession of it would want to publicly announce it. It would be kept secret . Even in the sciences, there are scientific secrets not reveal to the public. |
LordReed:Thanks for providing further information on the shooter's mental health. I didn't know that, and it's not even mentioned in the Op. People like himself shouldn't have access to guns of any kind. They should, instead, be locked up somewhere or closely monitored all the time. |
LordReed:Do you think there are no alternatives available, apart from guns, for someone who wants to carry out an hate crime? And if proliferation of guns are to be blamed, then why is the same kind of crime not being committed by others (everyone one of them) having a gun and facing the same kind of pyschological pressure from that society? |
StonesA:Then focus on explanaing how your higher self, subconscious mind ,has aided your healing. That's the only thing that would help to erase the confusion the title of your thread has caused in the minds of some of your followers. I don't see how you're a theist yet from all the things you have explained.. |
LordReed:I know. I think he has used the wrong descriptive term. I'm yet to see how a god or God should come in now based on what he has narrated about his personal experience. He has even refused to acknowledge any god, but only mentioned spirituality and higher frequency Those ones don't mean god . |
StonesA:I'm afraid your Op is not detailed enough for people to get your message. As you already can see, some persons are already misrepresenting you You make it seem a god helaed you from whatever was plaguing you at some point in the past, whereas from what I can deduce, from your story, you only used an alternative means to get cured and now describing it as spiritual. IEven though I'm not an atheist myself, I know there's nothing in atheism which says atheist shouldn't seek for alternative cure when medical science fails. Some atheist are known to meditate to manage depression or other health issues, and we know that is not something your regular doctor would recommend. |
Flamemignon1:Let him affirm himself that they were his own personal opinions and shouldn't be taken as facts. He once wanted me to educate myself on what doesn't exist; homosexuals were the first people to have anal sex which made the Yorubas to coin the word, adofuro,, to describe same sex relationship. That was what he asserted confidently. |
Flamemignon1:Why don't you allow the person my reply was meant for respond himself? And besides, where is the bigotry in my post? In your head anyone who challenges an atheist claim must be a bigot even in situations when it's reasonable to do so? The person you're defending had declared, without enough support, that homosexuality, same sex relationship, was widespread back then in Africa; our ancestors were all immersed in it ,and I said no way. I accept we had in some cultures sexual display or habits that parallels homosexuality, but not rife everywhere. That's my position. You should have understood that first, before jumping in with your emotional rant. The sources, your friend kept inundating me with , only contain few instances in some remote regions in Africa, where what can be likened to same sex relationship was observed Those few cases, I have maintained were not representative enough for the whole of Africa for anyone to generalise with. If you want to join him in such stupid generalisation, then provide figures, not just empty commentaries alone, of the actual number of cultures that same sex relationship was observed during those period. Provide accurate data or something much closer to it. That's what I ask for. A remote region in Lesotho where 'same sex relationship was observed, is not all of that country. The same with a remote part of Uganda, Nigeria and elsewhere mentioned in those articles. 10% of something or less than that figure, is not 90% of that same thing Anyone who says it's, need their heads examined. As for your "Massa's d**k", please next time ensure you don't skip your medications. |
jaephoenix:Calling someone ignorant doesn't make them that. The claims you originally made ,which you're now trying to deflect from are listed below; 1. Africans were 'immersed' in homosexuality. 2. Africa was a hotbed of homosexuality. 3. King Mwaga 11, was the first prominent African to be openly gay. The first two, I said were very wild claims, while the last one is misleading. To be immersed in something, means to be engrossed in an activity without attention given to anything else ,nothing else matters. Unfortunately,you haven't succeeded in proving that Africans were fully focused in homosexuality before the coming of the whites or christianity. You made the mistake of using the wrong descriptive word to describe what happened back then. If it were true Africans were immersed in homosexuality in the past, then it would be readily observed everywhere and not just in some few remote locatons. What of your own community? Are you not an African, where you are from? Were your people not focused on homosexuality too? Why don't you start from there and let's see if someone from the same community as yours would not come to challenge you. A Yoruba person who's closer home and is well informed about the history and culture of his own people as come to say homosexuality is alien to the Yorubas. But you rejected it even when you're not Yoruba yourself or know much about their culture To the number 2, In the context in which you have used the word ,hotbed, you actually meant that before the coming of Christianity to Africa, our societies were a breeding ground for homosexuality, meaning our environment favours and encourages homosexual relationship. This claim of yours is from your imagination and it's simply because you don't know the actual meaning of the word , hotbed and the other one immersed., both which really means the same thing. Homosexuals, those in same sex relationship, don't procreate at all. Anal or lesbian sex doesn't lead to procreation. Heterosexuals, are the only ones capable of reproducing sexually in any human community. So, if it were true Africa was the hotbed of homosexuality and we were immersed in it, how come the population back then continue to increase to the extent slaves were being ' exported' to different parts of the word without a marked decrease in population size? Theory of Evolution says, if a group is not actively reproducing sexually the consequence will be a drastic reduction in its population size. You brought in modern day India as proof that a country whose citizens are mostly homosexual will not have its population reduced. But you failed to provide any data for those engaged in same sex relationship in that country to aid accurate interpretation of happenings there. It was another failed attempt to use deceptive argument to wriggle yourself out of the tight corner your lies has placed you in. There's no evidence India is a breeding ground for homosexuality or that they're immersed in it as you want people to believe. You continue to lie without shame Now to the final one, I reject the tag of king Mwaga 11 as the first prominent African who was 'openly gay'. That description is a product of gay propaganda. There are no evidences the King displayed that lifestyle openly . Mwanga 11 was married to different women who produced many children for him, yet you want people to believe he wasn't interested in women . I'm willing to accept, at this time he probably had anal sex with the boys, but it still doesn't make him openly gay. Gay men don't marry many women. The article you referenced says Mwanga was probably bisexual and was involved in anal sex. Homosexuality and bisexuality are not exactly the same kind of sexual orientation, but you continue to blur the lines deliberately. Two reasons I suspect you still continue to insist the king was openly homosexual ,despite the fact he was married to women are, 1. The false assumption that people are born gay. There's no adequate scientific support for that belief anywhere. My apologies if this offends you. Are you gay? So I can confirm from your own personal experience what it means to be really born gay. 2. Your mind has been taken over by gay propaganda and you can no longer think for yourself concerning the issue. Most of the site you reference are owned by people with vested interest. You failed to carry out adequate background check on those sites or corraborate from elsewhere what its contained there. As long as they support your claims, you just copy it and paste on Nairaland. Let's hear your own thoughts on the matter first, before providing support for them. You want me to educate myself because according to you 'your ignorance is cancerous' You made the claim that 'adofuro' in Yoruba was coined because homosexuals were they first to have anal sex. And without substantiating it yourself, you now want me to educate myself on something that doesn't exist ?I You made the claim and the onus lies on you to prove it beyond reasonable doubt. Not me. Take your advice and go and educate yourself first . You see how you have sadly shot yourself in the foot .You cannot provide evidence for your clams, but you derive pleasure on this board from taunting others for failure to prove their beliefs. It's said that, those who are truly knowledgeable are loath to call others ignorant, while those who are intoxicated with the little they know are quick to label others as ignorant. I'm done with you. I don't have time to read wayward copy and paste articles. |
jaephoenix:You keep lying all the time and boast you're educated Where is the evidence he was openly gay and that his wife knew he was gay. The focus should be on the king and not any other individual you think is pretending somewhere. You want to deflect. The other time you lied his father forced him to get married and now this. Please go away with your half education and lies. Homosexualsl were the first to have anal sex and because of that the word ,adofuro was coined. That's what you claimed on this thread without any evidence. You should hide your face in Shame |
jaephoenix: |
Kayouzka:The same people( white Christian colonialists) who erected the monument for the boys were the same people that accuse him, without any evidence, of sleeping with the boys and displaying the lifestyle openly. Even if it were true he slept with the boys, it still doesn't make sense to describe him as an openly gay man. He was married to several women. Gay men don't marry women. Why do you prefer the tag ,openly gay , for him Instead of the more correct description bisexual? |
FOLYKAZE:Thanks |
LordReed:Ok. I will wait |
Kayouzka:It's not a fact he was gay. What you just regurgitate is gay propoganda which has been debunked at different times. We have several images of the king, but not one to show where he flaunted that lifestyle. It was a false accusationhe was gay by people who wanted to take over his kingdom . If you insist he was openly gay, then provide a reliable source detailing how he displayed that lifestyle openly.Make sure you don't bring where he was labelled gay without any evidence. I'm not interested in reading propaganda. |
jaephoenix:The above is a joke. So homosexuals were the first people to have anal sex in Yoruba land and because of that the word "adofuro" was coined? Where did you get that from? Where are the Yorubas on Nairaland to confirm this. @Folykaze and @Deepsight and @Lordreed ( not sure if you're Yoruba ,Reed, but need to hear from you too.) ,How true is it that homosexuals where the first people to have anal sex in Yoruba land which resulted in the descriptive word ,"adofuro" @Jaephonix I think you're just imagining things ,and it's proof for me that you're only interested in winning an argument ,and don't care how you achieve that. Even if it were true that homosexuals were the first to have anal sex, it still doesn't support your any of wild claims. Homosexuality and bisexuality are two different things. It's either you don't know the difference between the two, or you're deliberately trying to blur the lines in order to find support for your false assertions. You cannot confuse me with such deceptive argument. I'm very good at spotting that The first link you shared below doesn't show how homosexuals were the first to have anal sex nor does it prove Africa was a hotbed of homosexuality. I think you need to check again the meaning of the qualifiers, "hotbed and immersed", you're using. They don't accurately describe what happened back then in Africa. Nobody is denying the fact that we had effeminate men who could marry and have sex with other men in certain parts of Africa , but the culture wasn't widespread . What was common back then, was bisexuality not homosexuality The links you shared showed nothing much. Just isolated cases here and there in some remote parts of Africa, and not everywhere. What of your own community? Are you not an African? Get closer to your own people , listen to what they have to say and know the truth first-hand from them. I'm afraid you're being misled by what you read on some gay propoganda website. Relationships with those effeminate shouldn't be equated with the culture of homosexuality as it's currently practiced in the western world, where it's one man to one man, one woman to one woman alone. The effeminate men if they marry at all, were married to men who were also married to women and that's not same sex relationship, homosexuality as we currently understand it to mean. In most cases, if not all, such marriages with effeminate men are usually hidden from the public. If same sex relationship was the norm and widespread back then in Africa, then the consequence of that would easily be seen; a marked decrease in the general population, since those who engage in same sex relationship don't procreate. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudoko_dakoIf such relationships didn't mirror homosexual relationship as it's understood in the west, then why continue to use the inappropriate expression , same sex relationship, to describe it? Why not describe it as it's? .They way it was understood and practiced back then in Africa.,so we get a clearer picture for comparison with what we see now If you don't reply to the above question then don't expect me to continue with the conversation. Same-sex relationships in Africa were far more complex than what the champions of the “un-African” myth would have us believe. Apart from erotic same-sex desire, in precolonial Africa, several other activities were involved in same-sex (or what the colonialists branded “unnatural”) sexuality. For example, the Ndebele and Shona in Zimbabwe, the Azande in Sudan and Congo, the Nupe in Nigeria and the Tutsi in Rwanda and Burundi all engaged in same-sex acts for spiritual rearmament — i.e., as a source of fresh power for their territories. It was also used for ritual purposes. Among various communities in South Africa, sex education among adolescent peers allowed them to experiment through acts such as “thigh sex” (“hlobonga” among the Zulu, “ukumetsha” among the Xhosa and “gangisa” among the Shangaan).If you had the above information before now, why withholding it?You already misled your readers into believing that those artworks you discussed in your previous reply represents evidence of homosexuality.. You never considered anything else. 3. Im not saying some of the homosexual intimacy wasn't for any other purpose. Of course they were thought to give power. But in the end, its still homo sex, whether for power, initiation or pleasure.There's nothing like homosexual intimacy or gay sex. Sex is sex Intimacy is intimacy.Anal sex is not only for homosexuals? People who aren't gays are sometimes forced by circumstances to engage in anal sex.; Male students in an only male hostel, some sex starved soldiers with POW, and Sex starved prisoners with other inmates during their period of incarceration. . Once the situation changes, the above group of persons usually revert back to the usual lifestyle. What I see, is that you seem hell bent in seeing homosexuality in everything around you. So, I wonder why you're yet to describe as homosexuals ,male footballers who warmly embrace each other, and roll together on the field of play, during a game of football once a goal is scored.. Til now some female cults in nigeria initiate their members with sex orgies. I guess its the White Men that taught them that, right?Apart from you not providing any evidence for the above, I struggle to see its relevance to the ongoing discussion. The discussion is not centered on who taught anyone anything ,but on the false claim that the culture of homosexuality currently practiced in the western world is the same as we had back then in Africa and that it was also widespread 4. Mwanga 2 had wives to comply with his father's wishes, but it didn't stop him from engaging in homosexuality. There are African sites(not American or European) that labelled him as such. Its well known.It's your own imagination that Mwaga 11 had wives to "comply with his father's wishes" share your source if you're not lying. An African male king refusing to get married? You're telling tales by moonlight. African sites labelling the king homosexual doesn't make it true. What makes something true is when it's supported by facts. There are no evidence from the link you shared below , which I retained in my reply, to confirm the king was openly gay. I have already explained the source of the false story.It was from the false accusation placed on him by the white colonialists. None of his own people confirmed he was gay and we don't have any images to support that he actually displayed that lifestyle openly. The annoying thing you have done now, is that you shared exactly the same link which I already shared ,without even bothering to read it yourself You only read the headline and quickly attached it to your post or read it without understanding it. If you had actually read it , you would have seen that what it contains debunked your claim that the King was openly gay. Go back to the thread and see where I shared the same thing showing where it was stated clearly that there's no evidence the King was openly gay. Someone married to sixteen women is not homosexual. It doesn't matter if the person sometimes has sex with other men. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://theafricanroyalfamilies.com/2022/06/04/kabaka-king-mwanga-ii-of-buganda-gay-bisexual-or-queer/&ved=2ahUKEwip1NyZ2O_9AhUGgv0HHdYcDv8QFnoECGgQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0H1QrHzWl8LJnGEjzpJWr1 https://face2faceafrica.com/article/king-mwanga-ii-of-buganda-the-19th-century-ugandan-king-who-was-gay[/quote] |
Maynman:Gerald, himself, never confirmed the story to be true. I said he reacted ,either assuming it were true ,or he never got to know all of the facts as at the time . It should not be judged as nonsense if someone were to react reasonable to a question based on a hypothetical situation. We all have done that at different times. Besides, everyone now knows the story is not true, even Gerald at the moment. So, I think you should rather focused more on his logical response , and not trying to desperately tie him to something he never started in order to condemn what he said. It's pointless. One thing is clear from the Op. It was meant to present to the Christian community ,the informed and more reasonable position of respected Christian leader concerning the fake story or anything similar to it, hence the timeless advice, that 'correlation is not causation' in that particular instance. This is what I see and I believe others who may have read it Good day. |
Maynman:How is Gerald's reaction nonsense? He debunked the claim a god caused the flood assuming it were true |
Maynman:I have modified my last reply. My attention is on Gerald's reaction to the story and not the fake content. |
Maynman:Within the context of the article,the time and location is not relevant to the author's argument that correlation is not causation He is not the person who created the false story. You make it seem he is responsible for it. He has only reacted to it assuming it were true The original content creator should be blamed for the misinformation What's relevant here, is that he didn't foolishly believe, like other gullible Christians, that a god or God has punished a county with flood, whether the story is true or not. Modified. I am focused on the reaction of Gerald in the article and not everything in it. He is not the author of the article as we can see |
Maynman:You missed this part below "Correlation is not causation" used by the author of the article was meant to drive home the point that theirs no connection between the carnival and the flood that happened the next day; The former wasn't the cause of the latter
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Maynman:I don't think the article is nonsense. It actually debunked the claim that the devastating flood was due to the carnival. Take your time to read it again. |
About king Mwaga 11
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jaephoenix:What you copied directly from the article written by the gay rights activist, Bisi Alimi, are gay propoganda; false narratives. None of it supports your wild claims that in the past Africa was a hotbed of homosexuality and that we were also immersed in it. In the first place, the Yoruba word, adofuro, only describes anal sex and not homosexuality. Homosexuals are not the only ones to engage anal sex. Some men who aren't gays also have anal sex with either a male or female partner. The author of the article has placed the word,homosexual, in quotes because he is not certain if the word , adofuro, actually describes that. He Just gave his own subjective interpretation of it. Secondly, the fact we had few effeminate men in the northern part of Nigeria who could marry is still not enough for your generalisation. There's no evidence whatsoever of such men living together with any man as "husband and wife" similar to the culture of homosexuality currently practiced in the Western world.The men were open to have sex with anybody, married and unmarried men ,and not cohabiting with anyone. Furthermore, the claim that king Mwaga 11 was openly gay is one of those false narratives meant to deceive the gullible public. The King never at anytime declared he was gay. There's no evidence he flaunted that lifestyle . None of his subjects confirmed he was having sex with any man. So, where did the rumor that he was openly gay emanate from? It came from the false accusation placed on him by white Christian colonialists . He was accused , without any evidence, of sleeping with some young men whom he had actually executed for converting to Christianity. The King put up a strong resistance against colonial rule and Christianity, and for that , they set him up in order to remove him and have their way. It was a case of giving a dog a bad name in order to hang it. The information being withheld from the public is the fact that the king was married to sixteen different women who produced many children for him. Why then would anyone in their right senses describe such a man as openly gay is something very difficult to understand. Even if it was true he slept with other men, that still doesn't make him homosexual. He was married to women. https://theafricanroyalfamilies.com/ Finally, artworks depicting men having sex with other men doesn't confirm anything. Artworks are produced for a number of reasons which are usually not known except by the person who actually produced them. If we don't know the actual reason for which an artwork was created, we can't just speculate using our personal experiences or from our own view point, and then try to force what we arrived at on others as evidence of something. In certain parts of Africa, especially in sub Saharan Africa, it's believed that male members of some secret cults engaged in anal sex with other men either for acquiring mystical powers or as part of initiatory rites into such societies. So, it's possible those art depictions represents such beliefs or something else we don't even know. I'm not against homosexuals. Why should I? I don't subscribe to any religious text that instruct its readers to condemn them. What I'm against are the misinformation , half truths and outright lies being dished out concerning the issue. It's insulting to our collective intelligence as Africans to sit down and watch, without reacting, while some outsiders, in conjunction with our own people, are trying desperately to rewrite our own history. King Mwaga 11 was the first prominent African to come out as gay? Oh! Exactly the same tactics being used by some individuals and Christian groups; Jesus was a black man, he was from Africa, infact the Bible was written by the Yorubas, there's a word for the devil in Yoruba and blah blah blah. Not everyone is fooled. Below is where you directly copied from. https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/09/being-gay-african-history-homosexuality-christianity
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tctrills:I believe the Op actually meant pseudoscience and not bad science. |
jaephoenix:I never said theist are not homophobic. Please take your time to read what I posted once again and understand it very well before replying. What you highlighted, in case you don't understand it, simply means religion is not the main reason why most people are homophobic. My argument is that. ignorant and intolerant people hide behind it to express hatred for others. Modified. When I mentioned China and Russia,, I was focused mainly on both government's attitude towards the LGBT community and not those of their citizens. Please try to know the difference Also, there's no evidence that Africa was, according to you, "immersed"in homosexuality before the coming of the whites. There may have been few instances of individuals involved in that,. but not enough to conclude it was common. The large population we have everywhere in Africa does not support what you declared. Homosexuals don't procreate. I hope you know what that means? Finally, please provide the source for the stats that only 1% of atheists are not pro gay. I'm much interested in that.one. You must realise that atheists. are not the only ones who. are pro gay. Some religious people are even pro gay too. So, there's nothing special or unique about it. Anyone can get involve https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rferl.org/amp/russia-parliament-law-banning-lgbt-propaganda-adults/32146774.html |
HUMANIIST:I believe you brought this here because you assume religion is the real reason most people are homophobic. But that's not true The Russian and especially the Chinese government strongly reject the LGBT community, and we know it's not because of religious beliefs. The truth of the matter is that most humans are hardwired to reject anything that's against the norm and would react negatively without thinking when faced with what they don't expect to see ,or something they cannot make sense of. Ignorant and intolerant people are found amomgs all groups. We have the irreligious who are bitterly homophobic. Some atheist are also included and guilty of the same So, Instead of blaming religion for the current discrimination against gay people, you and others on the same path of promoting the same thing, which I'm not against and at the same time not in support of, should focus more on enlightening the general public on why we have homosexuals in our midst and the reason we should tolerate them . The public need to know the whole truth and not half truths and propoganda to make them change their minds. But remember not everyone would listen to you or want to change their attitude. It's not easy to change human behaviour especially those of an adult. Attacking a particular group or any other group can only make things worse for those in the LGBT community as it would cause these other groups to take it as fight or competition which they must win. Unfortunately, gay people are a minority group that's not expected to win this battle. Most gay people, if you ask them, Just want to live their lifes quietly without the unnecessary attention being placed on them. Putting them in the spotlight may have increased the pyschological pressure coming from others around them and also from within themselves. This can affect their mental health in ways they may not be fully conscious of. Most people are more comfortable and relax to live their lives without much stress when others are not focused on them. Traditional African societies of the past were very good at managing this kind of situation better than those in the western world are currently doing. Our forefathers never made much of an issue out of the situation . They maintained a silence that came from sincere concern and understanding which gave those with gay tendencies the mental freedom and physical space to live their lifes quietly and happily without any harrassment. My advice is that you sheathe the sword and use other methods that can achieve better results. If you insist religion is the problem then, what do you have to say about atheist who are homophobic? |
Flamemignon1:You didn't answer my question. I wanted you to provide the scientific evidence you said you have for homosexuality being normal. Your final statement up there as nothing do with me. I never mentioned that quirks of nature are unnatural, but a deviation from the norm. |
Flamemignon1:I'm not going to contest the naturalness of homosexual behaviour, but only want you to educate me on why you have asserted it's a normal sexual orientation. For me,I think it's an abnormal sexual orientation, but which I personally don't judge as a product of insanity . I see it as a quirk of nature, a deviation from the norm which is not enough reason to discriminate against those who engage in it ,as most of them cannot help to be that way. As you reply me, please ensure that the scientific support you would provide is peer reviewed. If it's not, then don't just bother. |
jaephoenix:Clown. See who's talking. "Nigerians are notoriously poor in grammar". After saying so, the next thing is to confirm for everyone through what comes out from you that you're part of those Nigerians. Another headache causing reply from you again. Chai. I don see something for Nairaland.Pot calling kettle black Go and employ a private English language teacher. You don't know the grammar rules behind what you're correcting. I have friends who are medical doctors and Nairalanders too. Unlike you, they don't always have the time to be on Nairaland 24/7 due to the nature of their job. But you're always here probably because you're either not whom you claim to be or not very good in what you do. Besides you're not too familiar with the regular medical jargons doctors use in describing some of the things they do. How do you expect people to believe your claim then? "Legit" prescriptions. Mofo Like a lawyer calling his clients, customers. You have betrayed who you're already. Stop acting! Go and help yourself with those "legit" medications you prescribe for your patients. . |
jaephoenix:Go and take your "legit" prescriptions. How often do you find other nairalanders correcting the spelling mistakes of others or drawing attention to it. You have failed woefully |
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