₦airaland Forum

@morpheus24
I second that opinion for the fact that our own military cannot not even control the violence.

Goes to show what these attackers think of our security personnel,

I also suggest these villagers organize in arming themselves and training vigilante personnel to butcher these fools next time around


The security forces CANNOT control a full blown crisis in Nigeria
The Police has less than 500,000 men
We should be careful the way we call for war
The entity is not perfect
But it will be foolish to go to war and thereafter settle for a worse arrangement
Wars arise out of miscalculation
A party is cocksure about what the others would do - concede or lose
Otherwise people will discuss first rather than going to war

Self policing does not work if the other party is battle - hardened
You cannot compare the battle readiness of a city person, no matter who many war films he has watched, to a nomad's

@frosbel
You cannot conduct a credible argument with me by quoting from the Bible
That is your own book now!
Convince me from authentic sources of Islam plaese
It is like a socialist quoting Karl Marx to rebut Keynes

Tell me all the blood flowing in Somalia, Iraq, Nigeria, Sudan etc etc etc , is it not because of Islam

So Iraqis started fighting without any cause? - No, christians started it
You think that if a foreign power topple our government and start controlling the country
Nigerians would not fight back? - you can call them Resistance (France during WWII) or Insurgents (Iraq post Sadam)
Blood flowed in Nigerian during the civil war - was it because of Islam?
Oh, PDP primaries in the South have often been rocked by explosions - Are these Islamic
Now what about the blood that has flowed in Umuleri/Aguleri, Warri, Ife
Somalia problem was caused by Farah Aideed
Read it up - it was not different from what Sergeant Doe of Liberia tried to do
Blood flowed in Sierra Leone, Liberia, Sri Lanka too
Were these religious?
Indira Ghandhi was killed by a Sikh
Rajiv was killed by a Tamil - suicide bombing
Blood flowed during the first and second world wars - did Islam cause them


Look at medieval history, has christianity always been peaceful?
Was Ghenghis Khan a muslim?
Most wars are about resources
Look at those countries - they are all people
Rocked by strive the way Europe was when it was poor
Inspite of that, they still fought 2 wars in the last century


You have conveneiently sidestepped certain things
Are you really sure that the conflic in Jos is religious?

Are christians savage when they fight
Yes - unless there are no christians amongst the Jukuns, Ijaws, Modakekes, Ifes
Reverend king is a Christian - are his deeds of the christian religion
The exorcists of Nigeria are christians!
The inquisition is christian
Lesson - Every religion has renegades and extremist!

Christians routinely tell lies about Islam
They publish fake quran - yes I can prove it
Yet you are now calling me a liar
Since you insist that Jos is religious, can you please prove to me that Muslims cut off tongues?
And it would be useful if you tell me how christians fight wars

@asha 80

Yes it is said that tongues were cut off  

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100317/ap_on_re_af/af_nigeria_violence;_ylt=Aqrm6XXKSjAVoqUPSZz1c7P9xg8F;_ylu=X3oDMTM4Njhza2FmBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAwMzE3L2FmX25pZ2VyaWFfdmlvbGVuY2UEY2NvZGUDbW9zdHBvcHVsYXIEY3BvcwM3BHBvcwM3BHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcmllcwRzbGsDYXR0YWNrZXJza2ls

By JON GAMBRELL, Associated Press Writer Jon Gambrell, Associated Press Writer   – 1 hr 22 mins ago

LAGOS, Nigeria – Attackers killed 12 people in a small Christian village in central Nigeria on Wednesday, and witnesses said some of the victims' tongues had been cut out in a region where religious fighting already has killed hundreds this year.

Raiders entered the village of Byie around 2 a.m., setting fire to homes and driving frightened residents into waiting attackers' machete blades, said Mark Lipdo, leader of a regional Christian nonprofit group. Ten adults and two children were slain, he said.

Three people were wounded in the overnight raid and taken to a local hospital, Lipdo said. He said attackers burned down 15 homes during the violence.

More than 200 people — mostly Christians — died last week in massacres in villages outside of the central Nigerian city of Jos. In January, more than 300 people, mostly Muslims, were slain.

Nigeria, a country of 150 million people, is almost evenly split between Muslims in the north and the predominantly Christian south. The recent bloodshed has been happening in central Nigeria, in Nigeria's "middle belt," where dozens of ethnic groups vie for control of fertile lands.

The violence, though fractured across religious lines, often has more to do with local politics, economics and rights to grazing lands.

The latest killings add to the tally of thousands who already have perished in Africa's most populous country in the last decade over religious and political frictions. Rioting in September 2001 killed more than 1,000 people. Muslim-Christian battles killed up to 700 people in 2004. More than 300 residents died during a similar uprising in 2008.

(This version CORRECTS village name to Byie instead of Dyie.)

@tpia.

I have said that what is going in JOS is NOT Religious
I have heard a version of the Jos night attack that said people were spoken to in Fulani before being attacked
Since Fulani is not common language of muslims, I do not see it as religious
I do not speak fulani
Even Arabic is not spoken by every muslim

Even when there is awar, a muslim must abide by certain rules
You do not mutilate
You do not kill children
You do not kill women ( There is a story by a Fulani on Sahara Reporters that said he, like the Biroms, was proved wrong on this ocassion. It had always been assumed that Fulanis don't kill children and women. That was why the Birom men stayed back and sent their children and men forward)
You stop fighting when people surrender

I cannot speak about the reasons behind the Jos fighting
I can only say it is not based on Islamic rules of engagement

Of course, people may want to throw up some refutation
- please, please do so with credible evidence, Not hearsay
Of course there are renegades in Islam
You cannot find evidence in Islam for suicide bombing
Let ANYONE who has evidence to the contrary challenge me on this

@Onye-egbu
Comparing those fightings with what is happening in Jos is quite deceiving to someone who has no idea what those crisis are really for.

Go ahead and compare gangster wars in US.

Can you confirm that you witnessed all the fightings in Ife/Modakeke and Ijaw/Itsekiri
One way of knowing what people will do is look at
- what cult members do in schools
- touts fighting at motor parks
- atrocities committed by armed robbers (eg that pregnant lady banker shot dead without need last year at Ketu)
- people fighting over land even in our cities
- and check on youtube - those Nigerians exorcising spirits from children by burning and stabbing
   etc

These will tell you about the potential savagery of man

@Smartgal
We must divide,  Again Islam is not a religion - its just some group of fanatical lunatics following the BEAST CALLED ALLAH OR MOHAMMED OR WHAT EVER THE PERSON'S FOOLISH NAME IS

I am a Muslim. I have no apologies whatsoever about it
I am just surprised that people comment about Islam without knowing so much about it

Like I have said elsewhere, Muslims do not take kindly the abuse of Allah and the Prophet (may Allah's blessing be upon him)
That is the reason why you will NEVER EVER see a muslim who knows what he is doing abuse Jesus Christ (may Allah's peace be upon him)

There are misguided muslims. There are misguided christians
Stress, invasion, conflicts bring out worst in us
I do not judge christians by the actions of Reverend King

However, I am not so sure if you will remain so cool if I hurl at your father the insults you have posted here
Yet Muslims do not even compare Allah to their parents. Their is no basis. Allah is divine

Try and understand history of both muslims and chrsitians - recent and medieval - before you post

@OMO IBO
I have never advocated for any sort of split but if these religious loons see human lives as nothing and the Govt of Nigeria take a 'sidon look' approach then Nigeria can go on split into whatever form.

What people are saying is that people who are fighting (Ife/Modakeke, Ijaw/Itsekiri, Umuleri/Agwuleri, Birom/Fulani) see human lives as nothing. It is not peculiar to a tribe.

When there is a war, human beings descend to a level of savagery that would have baffled the perpetrators if before their own war, they were told that some people did similar inhuman acts

Look at this link in the Guardian

http://www.ngrguardiannews.com/editorial_opinion/article04/indexn2_html?pdate=150310&ptitle=Like%20Jos,%20like%20Rwanda

This part of that article is very relevant
I will return again to a quote from Gil Courtemanche book where he writes that "We can all turn into killers, Valcourt had often maintained, even the most generous of us. All it takes is a certain circumstance, something that clicks, a failing, a patient conditioning, rage, and disappointment. The prehistoric predator and the primitive warrior are still alive beneath the successive varnishings that civilization has applied to mankind."

During the Bosnian wars, the atrocities committed in Europe shocked other Europeans
In Sierra Leone, school boys were amputating legs and arms of people. Some of them killed their OWN parents
Fela said "this uprising will bring out the beast in us"

So we should not wish for war if we ourselves do not want to be pushed into a state where we start treating human lives as nothing!

@9jaganja[b]
topic ban religion but first make people see the fallacy called religion for what it truly is[/b]

Given the way people, esp you and Ezeuche, have been carrying on the ethic animosity is more fearsome than that posed by religion. maybe I can actually appeal to religious leaders to try and call people to others
But ethnic leaders do not exist or do in name only and are not listened to

So when Nigeria's problem of religion is dealt with, people will now see that ethnicity is a far, far greater and insidious threat

@honeric01
Actually the quote button does not appear
I am on another forum that uses the same SMF as Nairaland and I can see the quote button
I actually want to report this matter but I don't know how to report it
I cannot even send or receive PM

On the market issue, people buying shops are not likely to know that a local government does not have the right to set up a market
As far as they are concerned, government is government, LG or SG
Furthermore, they will assume that the LG will have cleared the matter with the SG
Otherwise the Sg would have stopped it

@eleshin
i realy dont know d problem of pple,the market belongs to govt not individual,the same govt served them notice of demolition just to develope d place.

So it is not an ILLEGAL market. Then is the government paying compensation? In the original post, the people said they BOUGHT the shops. And of course, we ahould be honest enough to admit that the people displaced will NOT own shops there again. The new shops will be priced above what they can afford

@honeric01
I am sorry
This is a problem I have on this forum. I never see the "quote" button. So I have to manually copy and enbolden posts I want to respond to
Sorry

@honeric01
Mr man, stop encouraging indiscipline,
I do not think that Ajelogo was put up there illegally! The place is just too big to have come up without some approval

i bet if you were a governor, you won't do Nada for 16 terms because you won't be able to do anything out of being too sentimental about issues.
Actually, life is about sentiments. Otherwise Nigeria, a developing country, would not be making donations to Haiti. Life is about compassion, caring etc

it's not the governor that's going to feed those who think they are hungry,
Nor is it for a governor to take away means of livelihood

what he can only do is provide enabling environment  you can never satisfy everyone
we are saying let us have the enabling environment for the poor too and not satisfy only the rich which your explanation further confirms. I wish he had mentioned that he would have catered only to the rich if he was elected.
We are saying that the same people are buying shops all over - New Oshodi, New Tejuosho, New Ajelogo etc
They are priced out of the reach of the original people displaced

do you know that alot of people have no business in Lagos but they won't leave because of shame,
those who can't stand the change should relocate to where they can be more comfortable doing business and living life the old way

Actually, the rest of the world should also believe that Africa has no business being in the world. Africa brings to the world only news of war, disease, poverty, etc
Coming back home - I know that what you are advocating is a beggar-my-neighbour policy
And what should happen to indigenous Lagosians who don't make the cut - we uproot them from their ancestral homes?
and of course dump them on those "foolish" states who become the waste dump for this new Lagos
The per capita GDP of Nigeria is about $1,500 @ N150:$1 = N225,000 or N18,750 monthly
Given that we have one of the highest income inequalities in the world, only a very few Nigerians will be living in those dream cities
What is the difference between that and apartheid? Just imagine what you would say if colonial masters were doing that? Good intentions, but evil outcome

And to consign people to near perpetual poverty is unfair and perhaps "unGodly"

@ayettymama
It would have been much more useful if you read my post
I responded to Asha80's post that lions do not exist in Southern Nigeria
And you later posted to confirm what I was saying about "seeing is basis of naming"

The only part of your post I commented on is about Yoruba not being updated
I mentioned those words because I found that I had to go and ask people the meaning of some new words

However since you mentioned it, "Kiniun" cannot be a leopard becauseit has it own name: "Amotekun"
Of course the real "Ekun" is Tiger

@Dr Kitaun
these people were told over 20 times in d past and the show owners and tenants were invited to Alausa few days to d exercise, what more do u want Govt to do

Can you really prove this? And how can you treat Fashola like an illiterate by implying that he is not capable of greater ingenuity? For instance, he could have enforced the removal of goods from those those shops under police order. This can take 2 days (because of logistics). Would that cost him anything

@mr.official
Where is the mega city if they re not demolished?

Sometimes I have misgivings when we begin to dignify actions of human beings with near-divine qualities
Is the mega city a divine decree
And where are the people who will live in mega city if their means of livelihood has been demolished - foreigners I suppose, not the masses who voted for the governor
Is it not in this mega city that Nigerians are shipped to construction sites in container-like vehicles
Fix economic problems and people will stop putting up slums

@honeric01
but Lagosians love free things, none would want to rent a shop, rather they prefer to build shanties because it cost next to nothing. if you do the right thing, you won't have to suffer when the wrong things are being corrected.

These lagosians who love free things are not different from you and other people all over the world
As human beings, we all have unlimited wants and need to minimise costs to satisy as many of those wants as possible
If they can have things free, they would go for it
But the shops that were demolished were paid for - read the story again

In addition, why do we believe that Nigerians are so rich that they only don't want to spend?
If we assume that the daily cost of feeding an individual is N200, that is N6,000 monthlly
I hope you realise that the minimum wage is less than N10,000
Yet a lot of Nigerians do not have jobs
Why do you think people risk their lives to leave Nigeria - look at the number of people who have perished trying to cross the Mediterranean
And yet, a lot of those abroad do not have solid jobs

@asha80
There are no lions in southern nigeria forests let alone the thick forests in calabar.There is also an igbo word for lions but lions never existed there.I am sure what the meant to write was leopards.


I am not that sure that assertion is correct. If you have ever listened to hunters in southern Nigeria, you would believe that lions must have existed there. They would tell you about lions, tigers, buffalos, hyenna etc I am not sure that those people just plucked the stories from thin air.


@Ayetty mama
True, Yoruba is old but is being rapidly updated
Egunje came into the lexicon in the 90s
Jeun Soke after 1999
E jesu e mumi came from Kolington in the 80s

@tpia
you dont know some nigerians go to south africa on vacation?

Oh, I am sorry.
I am really happy that some people can go to South Africa on vacation

I want more Nigerians to have the opportunities to make more money and go on vacation to UK, US etc
and come back within 3weeks and not sleep at foreign embassies in search of visas
I seriously believe that the more hands we can keep at legal work, no matter how lowly paid
the better for our society
The more the number that would turn their backs on those desperate voyages - eg across the meditteranean in rickety boats

@udezue
It would be helpful if we respect ourselves
We can disagree without being abusive
Like I said, will this discussion persist if I abuse your dad,
No matter how much wrong is done in his name by one of your siblings?

Why is it that Christians circulate fake information about Islam?
And also publish fake Quran

Do you think that will actually encourage me to believe that my salvation lies in Christianity?

@babapupa
So state policy will be dictated by rumours of fetish activities?
Will Governor Fashola tar my street if vanguard tell him that we have been killing rams to aid his 2nd term?

@tpia
Fashola did not introduce suffering
Neither did he promise in 2007 (during the campaign) to aggravate it

People are going to South Africa because of opportunities, not because of its beauty

@texazzpete
How can some of you people be insisting that Government compensates people who have been selling from such illegal markets?


A market that big cannot be really illegal
Who gave out the land in the first place - must have been governor?
People said they bought shops
I am not even talking about compensation
And the idea is that government should provide alternative market that the poor can afford before sending them away
Not all those underage hawkers chasing speeding cars on 3rd mainland bridge love it or are criminals
I have read articles where prominent people said they hawked in their childhood
I get angry when such people no longer remember the opportunity that such lowly activities provided them - to be able to go to school
And they only talk about mega city as if it is a divine revelation

The per capita GDP of UK where than once-a week street market is is over $35,000
Nigeria's is less than $2,000

Look at this thread
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-411339.0.html
People are really suffering

I support WIRINET

If they were given notice, what were they expected to do?
Just go home and sleep

Even Nigeria as a country lives on foreign aid
Why do we just think that demolishing things is evidence of deep thinking
A leaders thinks hard and come up with innovative solutions
Sincerely the illiterate Raji Rasaki and the "No-Bitumen" Oyinlola could demolish a marketer
It is a no brainer - it is the simplest things military administration could do

But when we are donating $1m to Haitian, we recognise that people need help to pull themselves back up from their low position

People are saying the city must be modernised - for whom?
Will the demolish add to our GDP? No
A lot of people will be without income for a while and some nearly permanently

Are we saying an Obama will initiate a painful policy measure without thinking of how to help the victims get their life back?
And that is a society that has a social security system

People who are talking about Ajelogo's miscreants should also address the same problem on 3rd mainland bridge, and all those
places that the police call hotspots

I do not see armed robbers evaporating simply because of a demolition
Actually their survival skills are better than those of the traders

Come to think of it, what is the economic benefit to society of actually destroying stock of wealth - goods?

Even if we must demolish, can we not plan it?
Let us say those people are really stubborn, can we not wear them out with patience

week 1 - announce on radio and paste posters that demolition will commence in 2 weeks
2 weeks after, send Mopol to the market with KAI, instruction is to monitor (with the market leaders) the evacuation of goods
Devote 3 days, say, to this


I understand that there are street traders in London
By the way, I don't need to know Ajelogo to determine that NIGERIANS are trading there and have been displaced
And where are the people displaced from Oshodi?

People first should be our watchword
Infrastructure is for MAN, not the other way round

And as for the governor, he is a human being and can make mistakes
People's defence of his actions should not be a reflex action
Rather we should reflect first
Voting is not done on the internet yet - please remember that if you really love the governor

@Afam
So, it is wrong to defame Jesus Christ or Christains but right to kill Christians or burn down their churches? Can you explain this contradictory position please?

There is no contradiction.
No muslim who knows what he is doing will EVER defame Jesus. Of course if a christian criticises Islam, the Muslim will also point out the shotcomings of christainity to him

As regards killing christians, I am not so sure that it is that simple.
Will a muslim just go around and look for christians to kill?
They must have been some cause for animosity between them
Afterall, muslims do fight themselves and I if 1 kills the other, religion is not really the issue, but the emotion of human beings
Christians kill themselves too afterall, otherwise there would be no case of murder in igboland!
Come to think of it, christains feel free to abuse our Prophet and Allah
But I can never NEVER abuse Jesus Christ. It is actually a sin for me to do that
Muslims feel offended when christians go about abusing Allah and the Prophet

Imagine how you would feel if somebody abuses your father
What muslims feel is stronger than that

By the way, no knowledgeable muslim will kill a woman or a child
I am not sure if chrsitians have that restraint when they have cause to fight