₦airaland Forum

striktlymi: Learn to draw the line between Islam and terrorism.

deScifa: I believe other Apostles and i believe Jesus

deScifa: My Judgement is not bias and subjective my dear, If Paul has no witness and the Account of his miracles were by him and his secretary it only says one thing about Paul, Hes not nothing but a lair . 2. What you called Long Essay made sense or not? 3. I believe The other disciples not Paul and his Gospel. Believing in Jesus is another debate if u mean as told and described by someone who knew nothing about him NO.

1 John 1:6 - If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

deScifa: Who wrote Act of Apostle? Luke who is Pauls friend and Secretary. Tell me any where else in the Bible aside from Paul and his disciples scripts where Paul performed miracle? who were their witness(es)?

deScifa: Paul was persecuting the followers of Jesus.
Did he change? What lead to is supposed change is only known to him and only him. Cos Paul was preaching his own Gospel..
In what book did he perform his miracles? what were the miracles?
Spiritual backing from where?

truthman2012: You have only repeated here all you have once said.

I have some questions for you, which I expect you to honestly answer:

Was Paul persecuting the church before?

What made him to change and become persecuted?

Paul was killed for the course of the gospel, he never denied Christ. Would a man afford to die for the course he took to deceive?

Could Paul perform miracles before his conversion? What or who empowered him to do so (with proof) after his claimed conversion?

Can a man perform miracles without spiritual backing? What was his spiritual backing (with proof)?

Can a man speak against the plan of God (gospel) and still empowered with signs and wonders as a proof of his calling by God?

I believe you will discover your errors if you correctly and honestly answer the questions.

deScifa: Isn't it funny that you expect anyone to be appointed a judge over Paul, The facts are there for everyone to see and i know you are running away from one obvious fact. Theirs no point playing Tantrum, you are only crying in futility my dear. If everything about Pauls Gospel is built on falsehood then a lot of question need to be asked about present day Christianity. When we read the epistles attributed to Paul or even the book of Acts many red flags seem to appear. For starters, Paul began by arresting/persecuting Christians. In the book of Acts we are told Paul was present at the murder of a Stephen who was a known Christian. Acts goes on to tell us Paul experienced a conversion on his way to Damascus to further persecute Christians. This account is mentioned in 9:1-31, 22: 1-22, and 26: 9-24. This whole story is suspicious for a number of reasons. First, the way Jesus appears to Paul in the story is not biblical. Jesus always appeared in the flesh, not as a light as specified in Paul's supposed account. Second, the account given is contradictory. Verse 9:7 tells us the individuals traveling with Paul heard Jesus' voice but saw no one. Verse 22:9 tells us instead the individuals with Paul saw a light but did not hear Jesus' voice. Third, is the improbable claim that Paul was on his way to Damascus to round up Christians. This is very unlikely considering Damsacus was a predominantly pagan territory at the time under Nabataean control. Paul would have had no authority to round any one up. Fourth, where are those individuals that were with Paul to verify this incident? It surely would make it more believeable if there were witnesses.

In the New Testament Paul is referred to as an apostle 22 times. Only twice is this done by someone other than Paul himself. It is not from Jesus, or any of the original apostles(disciples), but from Paul's friend and personal press secretary Luke. It is obvious from reading the accounts of Paul, Acts for instance, that the disciples did not believe him to be one of them. There was obviously no love loss between the disciples and Paul.

Another area of contradiction is in Paul's teachings. Paul was a stout supporter of faith. This in itself is not a bad thing. The problem is Paul emphasized faith over everything else; including action. Paul's teachings on salvation apart from works contradicts other clear teachings in the New Testament such as Matthew 5:19, Matthew 25:31-46, John 15:10, James 1:22-25, and James 2:24. Other than Paul, the New Testament teachings are predominantly works based. Another area of difference in Paul's teachings and the rest of the New Testament are his views in the Jewish Law. Paul's letters contain a substantial amount of criticism of the Law. This view would not have held well with the Jewish Jesus and his Jewish disciples.

Many people over the centuries have doubted Paul. Many considered themselves Christian (followers of Jesus).

Ebionites (possibly the first Christians) believed him to be a false apostle.

These men (Ebionites), moreover, thought that it was necessary to reject all the epistles of the apostle [Paul], whom they called an apostate from the law
— Eusebius 325 AD
Some significant early church fathers had issues with Paul.

Macarius Magnes (early church theologian) found Paul to be contradictory.

[Paul] says, ‘As many as are under the Law are under a curse’ (Gal 3:10). The man who writes to the Romans, ‘The Law is spiritual’ (7:14), and again, ‘The Law is holy and the commandment holy and just’ (7:12), places under a curse those who obey that which is holy!... In his Epistles … he praises virginity (I-Tim 4:1, I-Cor 7:25), and then turns round and writes, ‘In the latter times some shall depart from the faith,... forbidding to marry’ (I-Tim 4:1-3).... And in the Epistle to the Corinthians he says, ‘But concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord’
— (I-Cor 7:25). ca. 300
Augustine (early church theologian) accused Paul of being a liar.

If it be possible for men to say and believe that, after introducing his narrative with these words, ‘The things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not’, the apostle (Paul) lied when he said of Peter and Barnabas, ‘I saw that they walked not uprightly, according to the truth of the gospel’,... [then] if they did walk uprightly, Paul wrote what was false; and if he wrote what was false here, when did he say what was true?
— 397 AD
Jerome (early church theologian) accused Paul of hypocrisy.

Porphyry ... accuses Paul of presumption because he dared to reprove Peter and rebuke him to his face, and by reasoning convict him of having done wrong; that is to say, of being in the very fault which he himself, who blamed another for transgressing, had committed.... Oh blessed Apostle Paul— who had rebuked Peter for hypocrisy, because he withdrew himself from the Gentiles through fear of the Jews who came from James—why are you, notwithstanding your own doctrine, compelled to circumcise Timothy (Acts 16:3), the son of a Gentile, nay more, a Gentile himself?
— 404 AD
Jerome's continued criticism of Paul.

Paul does not know how to develop a hyperbaton [i.e., a change of normal word order for emphasis], nor to conclude a sentence; and having to do with rude people, he has employed the conceptions, which, if, at the outset, he had not taken care to announce as spoken after the manner of men, would have shocked men of good sense.
— 411 AD

Lilimax: You may think you've read the Bible in and out but NOT.
I want to tell you that you're just reading the letter but have not contacted the Spirit behind the Word of God.

The letter kills but the spirit gives life (2 Corinthians 3:6)

thorpido: Jesus said,'ye err not knowing the scriptures'.
People who are ignorant of scriptures always try to discredit what they don't understand.
In 2 Peter 3:15-16,Peter said,'And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation;even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;As also in all his epistles,speaking in them of these things;in which are some things hard to be understood,which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest,as they do also the other scriptures,unto their own destruction'.Peter was a disciple and not just a disciple but a close one to Jesus.He spoke of Paul and called him a BELOVED BROTHER and AGREED with his doctrines.Why in your ignorance did you conclude no-one recognised Jesus as an apostle?
Vs 16,also indicts you.Peter said many who are UNLEARNED wrestle with Paul's doctrines even as they do with other scriptures.
This is exactly what you are doing with this thread.

deScifa: Take a chill pill and stop branding everything beyond your delusion as "Anti Christ".....do u have any fact against what i have presented? Bring it forward and lets deliberate on it.

"And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars." Revelation 2:2

malvisguy212: you don't even know what you are talkin,the land isreal possessed now, is it not the land of the cannanitie? Where is there iron chriote, why they did not use it to fight the present israelites? God preserve the israelites but destroyed the cannanitie. If you meet a cannanitie, ask him about his land.

macof: My point is outside the mountain/hill. Valley or plain lands what difference does it make? As long as it is outside the jurisdiction of Yahweh

Pls get out of here with shame if you can't answer a simply question.
Wat nonsense, I should answer u when you are not ready to play the game

you see how frustrated u are ur stupidity, hatred and lack of knowledge has made u put those words I bolded.
Unpopular and good for nothing you say? Yet it beat Yahweh in the canaanite valley
yet it provides weapons for all including Israel
Yet it discriminates not against sons or nations but hates only the unjust
Yet it molded ur bones
Yet it structured ur bloodcells
Yet it improves ur immune system

this guy. If you can't answer my questions say it and save me time instead of throwing insults to Ogun Lakaye Osinmole

macof: Why should I answer you first when I asked first?

The bold is the only answer you have given
Which is that the Holy spirit isn't involved in the old testament

I would keep this in mind

Now pls answer my other question:
Show us where Yahweh drove out inhabitants of the valley in the Bible

truthman2012: Spirit-beings, angels and demons are higher than man in power and knowledge. If they enter into anybody, educated or illiterate, the person will begin to foretell or say some hidden things by their influence. But because they are not omniscience, they too are limited in power and knowledge. This accounts for the reason the Quran has some accurate scientific contents but because the author, Allah is not the Omniscience God, it also contains many scientific and historical errors.

Muhammad, the prophet of Islam was able to receive the contents of the Quran from a spirit who introduced himself as Gabriel. Each time Muhammad wanted to receive quranic revelations, he would fall down unconscious, meaning he was possessed of Gabriel and so he was able to receive some things mysterious. Like I said earlier, because that spirit was limited in power and knowledge, his words contain a lot of errors.

Check out for some of the scientific errors in the Quran here: https://www.nairaland.com/1814257/quranic-statements-under-review

macof: You didn't answer my questions
here they are again
1. where in the Bible did Yahweh win against people of the plains during the Israel/Canaanite wars?
2. Was judges 1:19 an error of the holy spirit?

Let's get plain and direct answers to this so we can move forward stop all this twisting and running
We'll get back to all ur questions later

macof: Pls show us this truth.
You can start by answering my questions TRUTHFULLY
Rather than jst call me a liar and run away

malvisguy212: you may defend your allah, MY GOD IS MIGHTY IN BATTLE. Even my christian brethren know that God defend is children.

macof: pls this thread is not about Sango
Why is This guy talking about Sango??

I don't have time to teach you Yoruba history.
This here is Ogun lakaye Osinmole vs Yahweh El shaddai




Prove Yahweh had power over the inhabitants of the valley and plains by showing us a passage where Yahweh's strength was at display

All you doing are claims that can't be backed by even ur Bible
Ur Bible gives enough evidence that Yahweh's strengthened only on mountains

Yahweh didn't create everything, neither did he create the canaanites that he so hated and discriminated against


pls show us the reason Judah could not drive out the people??
Wait! Lemme show everybody as the Bible puts it in clear words

Judges 1:19 - And Yahweh was with Judah and he drove out the inhabitants of the mountain but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley because they had chariots of iron.


Keys words : COULD NOT, BECAUSE
Judah could not, meaning they didn't have the power, why didn't they have the power?.because the Canaanite tribes of the valley had chariots of Iron

This is common sense here
Even in modern times you mr truthman dare not attack an army with superior technology, if you like pray and even sacrifice to ur Yahweh, it wouldn't change your story



every God is almighty to those devoted to it.
Yahweh's case ain't different


Ogun created all metallic elements, your bones and blood cells.

Ogun is Yoruba as Gu is in Akan, even Ares and Hephaestus of the Greeks represent the same force
So the spirit called Ogun isn't just Yorubaland but the entire known universe.

Just as we know Yahweh as Orisha Oke in Yoruba



Lol look at this man making a fool of himself.

Ogun is the force of Metal, Metallic elements existed long before humanity probably even before the earth

Your problem is lack of knowledge and I see how Muslim and Christians frown at knowledge every time.
You don't know what Ogun is and you don't want to learn


Wat falsehood and errors

satan? The satan that doesn't exist or the satan that is your father Paul?

I would never go against my creator, it is actually impossible.
It is you who goes against your Ori by rejecting knowledge and a chance to grow in consciousness

macof: Pls address all of my posts.
1. Show us where Yahweh drove out inhabitants of the plains
2. is Judges 1:19 an error from the holy spirit??

So we can move forward, it's all on you now to defend the Christian claims


Smh.
you are only ignorant, it's more than clear as you don't know difference between Ogun and Sango yet you come.talking about who Sango is as if you know anything about that Name and what it represents

@bold. You are a hypocrite. Your Lord and master Jesus was born a man like every other man and you compare him to God...no! No! You call him God
And you here having a problem with calling a man a God(which I never did) when you do exactly that


So your father Satan/Devil doesn't exist

macof: I know more about the Bible than you think, once devoted my life to that

here's another verse proving Yahweh is only strong on hills and mountain

Joshua 13:6 all inhabitants of the hill country from Lebanon to Misrephoth-maim and all Sidonia will I drive out..“
Show us where in the old testament did Yahweh drive out any of the inhabitants of the plains

Here's Judges 1:32-33
Asher dwelt among the Canaanites, the inhabitants of the land for they didn't drive them out. Neither did Naphtali drive out the Canaanites of Beth-shemesh and Beth-anath, rather they left them as tributary states

Here we can see Each verse talks about a battle between one tribe of Israel and a tribe from the canaanites, each failure to drive the canaanites out was given a reason.
Verse 19 gave it's reason in clear words BECAUSE THEY HAD CHARIOTS OF IRON
Indicating how more advanced they were in technology by the grace of Ogun

I don't know wat u mean by the bold but are you trying to say Judges 1;19 isn't given by the inspiration of the holy spirit or the holy spirit erroneously reported

that

macof: Yahweh, the god of Israel who in Semitic spirituality is the spirit of mountains and hills(if you doubt, challenge me to this)

Ogun, the spirit of all metallic elements particularly Iron. In yorubaland, Ire-Ekiti, Saki Oyo and Idanre are his patron cities.

Here we would see how the Bible records a battle between these two spirits

Judges 1:19 - And the Lord was with Judah, and he drove out the inhabitants of the mountain but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley because they had chariots of Iron

There's two things in this verse
1. Yahweh's strength lays in the mountain
2. Judah with the grace of Yahweh couldn't defeat an army with the grace of iron(Ogun)

tijjanioyan: ur faculty of reasoning is under slippers,go shower &sleep