₦airaland Forum

ilyasmuy:
ABOUT THE AUTHOR Rev. Dr. Ian Mevorach holds a B.A. in Philosophy from Middlebury College, an M.Div. from Boston University School of Theology (BUSTH), and a Ph.D. in Theological Ethics and Constructive Theology from BUSTH. He is the co-founder and spiritual leader of the Common Street Spiritual Center in Natick, MA (www.commonstreet.org), which is an inclusive, love-centered community, rooted in a Christian faith that is open to all faiths. He is the co-founder of the American Baptist Churches Creation Justice Network and represents the American Baptist Churches USA on the board of Creation Justice Ministries, a national, multi-denominational environmental justice coalition. He is active in the movement for peace, justice, and the integrity of creation that includes people of conscience from all cultures, spiritualities, and generations. Jewish-Christian-Muslim dialogue, and interfaith dialogue in general, is one of his major passions. Please feel free to reach out to Ian by e-mail at ian@commonstreet.org

The falsehood in this is clearly noticeable. If the writer believes Muhammad is a prophet of God, why did he found a Church ? Why didn't he convert to islam ?

This is one of the tricks from the pit of hell to deceive ignorant Christians.

Was Muhammad a Spirit ?

Do human spirit referred to in capital "s" ?

Muhammad encouraged lie telling, is that the Spirit of Truth ? We read of Muhammad telling lies to deceive, is that the Spirit of Truth?

Bukhari (52:269) - "The Prophet said, 'War is deceit.'" The context of this is thought to be the murder of Usayr ibn Zarim and his thirty unarmed men by Muhammad's men after he "guaranteed" them safe passage.

Bukhari (49:857) - "He who makes peace between the people[b] by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar."[/b] Lying is permitted when the end justifies the means.

Bukhari (84:64-65) - Speaking from a position of power at the time, Ali confirms that lying is permitted in order to deceive an "enemy."

The Spirit of Truth is the Holy Spirit that descended on the disciples on the Day of Pentecost. He is still descending on Christ believers till today.

I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will put my words in the mouth of the prophet, who shall speak to them everything that I command.(Deut 18:18-19, NRSV)

This passage is self explanatory. " from among their own people" This was an address to the Israelites by Moses when he was leading them to Cannan. Moses faced the Israelites and prophesied to them that God would raise a prophet like him among their own people. It was the Israelites Moses was
prophesying to and not Arabians. Muhammad's race was not among the people to whom Moses prophesied.

QueenSalewa:
[i]

It seems you can't formulate an argument without resorting to petty insults, which is a shame. Stop wasting your precious time responding then. Lmao

Insult? Do you remember how many times you have called me "silly" ?

When I said you are ignorant I was only describing your knowledge of islam. And when I talk about your intelligence I expected you to reason better. No insult intended please.

I think I have taught you some Islamic lessons. Keep pondering on them.

QueenSalewa

Say : O ye that reject Faith!
I worship not that which ye worship,
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
Nor will I worship those whom you have worshipped;,
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
To you be your Way, and to me mine.

Historical context: this verse was sent to distinguish Muslims from the rituals, beliefs and gods that the Qurayish associated themselves with.

It's quite self explanatory.
The chapter is addressed to people who reject faith - atheists, and people who have heard the message of the Qur'an but choose to ignore it.

Give proof to the historical context from authoritative source (s). You always like expressing your personal, ignorant and false opinions.

Are Jews and Christians believers in Muhammad's Allah ?

Do you know the meaning of atheist ? Are Jews and Christians, the people of the Book atheists?

Readers can now see why I shouldn't continue with somebody of your intelligence.


(

The only) reference to Mecca - Qur'an 48:24: It is He who restrained their hands from you, and your hands from them, in the hollow of Mecca, after that He made you victors over them. And God sees the things you do

.

After you have said the quran doesn't mention Mecca but Bakkah only. You are soooo ignorant that you can afford to say just any trash. You are not worth my time.

Prophet Mohammed was a man. Not a God, not a demi-God. He was born naturally and died naturally. There is speculation on whether he died as a result of poisoning, or fevers. But, regardless of how he died, what does this prove or disprove? Are all prophets supposed to die by God taking them by a whirlwind or are prophets immortal to you? I don't understand what you're trying to show here. That he should never have died? You don't like the way he died? It should have been more majestic? What exactly?

The question here is not what killed Muhammad but how he was so spiritually powerless that he couldn't heal any sickness other than to behead innocent people. His jihadits ate poison, he couldn't heal them. When he was sick, Jubril prayed for him and also promised allah would heal him but he was not healed, he eventually died. Jubril lied allah would heal him. The same Jubril (a liar) brought Quranic revelations, how do you believe the revelation of a liar ?

I know you don't have an idea of all those because you are an ignorant muslim and that is why I don't have to waste my time on you.

It's not so much the revelation alone that Muslims assert is a miracle, it's the revelation paired with the prophet's apparent illiteracy. But that notion is mainly based on sunni texts and since I'm not a sunni, I won't use those anyway.
Miracles attributed to him in the Qur'an are the splitting of the moon, the night travel to Jerusalem and the ascension.

Was Muhammad the only illiterate 'prophet' ? What was the educational qualification of other prophets before him ? Why didn't others call their revelations miracle ? Smh !!!

Tell me the Quranic verse that says Muhammad split the moon. What Allah said in the quran is that Muhammad was not given power for miracle (Quran 13:7).

Muhammad had a dream that he went to heaven. His physical body was lying on his bed. Is it a miracle to dream ? I'm yet to find a Muslim that reasons fine.

Saturn's great festival, the Saturnalia, became the most popular of Roman festivals, and its influence is still felt in the celebration of Christmas and the Western world's New Year. The Saturnalia was originally celebrated on December 17, but it was later extended to seven days.
[Source, http://www.britannica.com/topic/Saturnalia-Roman-festival]

Lies !!!

How did you relate Roman Saturnalia to Christmas ? That Roman pagans celebrate a festival does not mean Christians celebrate same. Saturnalia is not the same as Christmas even if they are celebrated on the same date.

Interesting, but that's not from the Qur'an.

So I have given you education on islam, which you have been ignorant of. Your prophet, Muhammad said a woman's intelligence is deficient and this is actually reflecting in your posts. Or don't you believe your prophet?

You don't know islam is practiced using both quran and hadiths? Your allah said muslims should obey him and his sole prophet, Muhammad. It is in hadiths you can find the words and deed of Muhammad. As a Muslim woman, you are bound to believe the saying of your prophet that your intelligence is deficient and that why I shouldn't continue with you.

OK, if you'd like to end the debate then please say, so I can stop responding.

It's actually possible to formulate an argument without ending each of your posts with unnecessary, patronising, anecdotal "nuggets of advice" that nobody asked for. If you'd like to end it, just say.

Trash !!!

Congrats to that lady.

She has been delivered from the chain of allahh.

.

aminusanti:
Guy, I advised u many time but u are still refusing to use it.!! You are wasting your time by spreading ignorance here on NL thinking u are making sense. Copy n paste from anti islam sites will take u no where without further reading I swear...nothing will make sense to you if u lack basic knowledge of anything. Seek proper knowledge b4 is too late my friend and stop wasting your, if u don't know something or not sure of it you ask politely not trying hard to make people to believe what you saying here..

I understand islam far better than you. What you think you know is FALSEHOOD. I pity you.

najib632:
How dare you call the Lord of the universe satan are u out of mind. Muslims start reciting the Qur'an by saying "I seek protection from God against
the Devil" don't let your ignorance lead you to blasphemy.

Deception !!!

That statement is to make you believe you are against Satan. The truth is, since allah is not Yahweh who had been God before islam, he is no other than Satan.

najib632:
The chapter you qouted me with was refering to pagans
Qur'an 9:29 says:
Fight against those who believe not in Allah, [/b]or in the last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad S.A.W.) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth ([b] i.e. Islam among the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah ( they become vasals ) with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
So where is it in this verse that Allah calls people of the Scripture unbelievers?

I didn't want to answer you before but if I don't you will think you are making sense.

Quran 9:29 Pickthal] Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah or the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.

Look up at the bold. It says "those who believe not in allah" . Who are those people? The Jews and the Christians.

Now, are Jews and Christians believers or disbelievers in allah ?

QueenSalewa

You haven't proven anything. Instead you've just displayed a willfulness to remain ignorant. Let me ask you something then. What do you think "God" is in Arabic?

Let me start questioning you.

What does Quran 109:1-6 say, interpret it and supporting it with evidence (s).

What I'm saying is that the verse you made reference to, "a house of God and resort for all mankind" is named in the Qur'an as a place in Bakkah, not Makkah, but translators insert Makkah in brackets. They aren't the same place.
The verse: The first House established for the people was that at Bakkah, a place holy, and a guidance to all beings.

Where is Bakkah ?

Quote the verse and let people see it, I will quote many verses in the quran that speaks about Kaaba. Maybe you will tell me Kaaba is in Ghana.

First of all, the rest of the verse continues as follows:
it becomes a bird by permission of God. And I cure the blind and the leper, and I give life to the dead - by permission of God
Not of his own will or power, but by God's.

Why was allahh's greatest prophet, Muhammad, not given permission to do any miracle ? He couldn't heal an ordinary headache. When his jihadists ate poison he couldn't do anything. He was watching them till they died. He too tasted the poison and spewed it out but died later of the poison.

Do true prophets have to taste food before they could detect poison in it?


Quran is supposed to be a revelation and not a miracle because I know you will tell me Muhammad's miracle was the quran. He wasn't the first to receive revelation and others didn't call their revelations miracle.

Secondly, whatever Jesus did, as your own scripture says, "God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man that he should change his mind".

What is the relevance of this ?

I'm getting sick of typing this now, honestly. Until you realise and fully comprehend that God translated into Arabic is Allah, then we really won't get anywhere in this discussion. If you like, give me an alternative word for God in Arabic, then we will proceed. Because you keep returning to this futile argument.

There are two Spirits being talked about here, Yahweh and allah.The Arabs Muslims can call anything their own allah but are they referring to Yahweh ? Muslims allah is the idol Mutaleb, Muhammad's grandfather was serving. They have been worshiping allah as an idol in Muhammad's family before he was born.

God didn't concede to paganism. All images and idols in the Kaaba were destroyed, it is no longer linked to them. When people are at Hajj and pray, they call out to God, not to the idols that used to be worshiped there.

You don't know what you are saying. It was you who said allah took to pagan worship to draw the Qurayish to islam. Have you forgotten you said so ? I know every Muslim is a liar but your own is too silly.

I didn't say that pagans celebrate the type of festivals you do. But Christian festivals adopted pagan rituals in order to gain converts, that's my point. For example Christmas was influenced by the holiday of Saturnalia, this was only done to take the roman pagan masses along with Christianity.

Give proof to your assertion.

Again, was it God who said Christians should do so in the Bible? It is unlike allah who gave express permission for Muslim to worship him the say way they worship idols. It is found in the quran and hadiths.

My intelligence is half of a man's? Very interesting. Provide proof from the Qur'an please?

Yes, your intelligence is half of a man's as a Muslim woman. See what your prophet said about it:

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
Once Allah's Apostle went out to
the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o
'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then
he passed by the women and said,
"O women! Give alms, as I have
seen that the majority of the
dwellers of Hell-fire were you
(women)." They asked, "Why is it
so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied,
"You curse frequently and are
ungrateful to your husbands. I
have not seen anyone more
DEFICIENT in INTELLIGENCE and
religion than you. A cautious
sensible man could be led astray
by some of you." The women
asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is
deficient in our intelligence and
religion?" He said, "Is not the
evidence of two women equal to
the witness of one man?" They
replied in the affirmative. He said,
"This is the DEFICIENCY in her
INTELLIGENCE. Isn't it true that a
woman can neither pray nor fast
during her menses?" The women
replied in the affirmative. He said,
"This is the deficiency in her
religion."
Sahih Bukhari 1:6:301

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri
The Prophet said, "Isn't the
witness of a woman equal to half
of that of a man?" The women
said, "Yes." He said, "This is
because of the DEFICIENCY of a
woman's mind."
Sahih Bukhari 3:48:826

You know so little about islam, no wonder you are spewing out ignorance. I will advise you to withdraw from nairaland as you are not qualified to debate here.

najib632:
You are wrong the Qur'an refers to jews and christians as the people of the book or yahood(Jews) and Nasarah (Christians) that chapter was revealed while prophet Muhammad S.A.W. was still in makkah it was when he went to medina that he had encountered Jews and because they were expecting him that's why they accepted Islam quickly.

What are you saying ?

Was it not the same allah who said the Jews and Christians didn't believe in Muhammad's allah (Quran 9:29)?

QueenSalewa

God doesn't command Muslims to travel to Mecca, actually. Unfortunately, translators of the Qur'an paint Makkah in Saudi Arabia as the place that Abraham built the Kaaba when Makkah is actually mentioned in the Qur'an only once. The Qur'an makes reference to Bakkah, however, as the location where Abraham built the structure. This is why Makkah is always put in brackets, because it doesn't actually say that.

Don't say God, say allah as I have proven to you from Quran 109:1-6 that allah is not Yahweh. Yahweh was the God the Israelites were having dealings. Muhammad's allah, his fathers' idol surfaced as Muslims God centuries after Jesus had come and gone.

But how can you tell this flaring lie ? How did you get the gut to say allah didn't command Muslims to go to Kaaba? In several passages of the quran we find allah mentioning Kaaba as the house of Allah and the resort for all mankind. In fact, going to Mecca is one of the five pillars of islam. So you have resorted to telling lies because your argument doesn't hold water. Or is it because you are ignorant ?

If that's your criteria for God then surely Elijah who raised the widow's son from the dead is God too?

Nonsense !

Did Elijah create any life ? He revived a dead person, whose life was already created. Did you hear of any prophet who created life by himself? No prophet could create even an ant. It takes only God to create life, which Jesus did.

How is this relevant?

Look up, you asked for it.

What Mohammed's grandfather named his son is irrelevant. Allah means God in Arabic. Lobatan. Are you going to tell Arabic speaking Christians and Jews to stop speaking their language? You're literally debating semantics.

You are making some assertions that am almost tempted to say your reasoning ability is on the low side. How can you say what Muhammad's grandfather named his son is irrelevant? Why do muslims name their children Islamic names and not Sango worshipers name? If you hear somebody name his son Sangotola, what do you think is the father's religion? When Mutaleb named his son Abdullai (Abduallah), meaning servant of allah, a reasonable person should know that it was allah he was worshipping. It shows Allah was his idol as an idolater. You need deliverance if you cannot understand this simple thing !!!

The Qur'an allowed the continuation of the pagan practices of the Qurayish in order to make the message of Islam more appealing to the people it was conveyed to. Just like just about every one of the Christian holidays also fall on ancient pagan festivals.

So, to make islam appealing to Qurayish, allah had to concede to paganism? What a statement. It would have been better you are silent instead of saying this trash. So allah had to succumb to satanic practices in order to draw the Qurayish, I'm sure other Muslims following this thread must be ashamed of you. Islam is equal to paganism because allah wanted the Qurayish at cost.

For Christian festivals, it is not in the Christian Scripture to celebrate those festivals and besides, no pagans celebrate the type of festivals Christians celebrate.


Since about my four years on nairaland, I have never met any Muslim with your own type of opinion, probably because you are a Muslim woman. A woman's intelligence in islam is half that of a man.

proudkafir:
QueenSalewa, you need to pay for this information. You cannot get this in any mosque or madrassas.

truthman2012 please give QueenSalewa your bill.

Thanks bro.

QueenSalewa needs real knowledge of Islam, not the lies she was previously taught.

QueenSalewa

Truly, I don't know why Moses and Jesus didn't recognise the Kaaba.

Here you come. I put it to you that Moses and Jesus didn't talk about Kaaba or visit it because it wasn't built by Abraham. If it was actually built by Abraham as a house of God and resort for ALL MANKIND, all Bibe prophets would have recognized it. It was built by Meccan idolaters for their 360 idols. That allahh said Muslims should continue doing what idolaters were doing annually in Mecca shows allahh is the Devil in disguise as the true God couldn't have directed His people to continue the ways of idolaters, never.

So I pose the same question to you, from where did Jesus surface to become the god of the Christians when the Mosaic laws were to be applied forever? Why did Paul, a Christian, call Yahweh's "true", "righteous" commandments a curse in the NT?

Jesus had been in existence before the foundation of the world. "In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God and the Word was God" ( John 1:1). Jesus is the Word. Quran says Jesus made a clay bird and the bird became real and flew. Meaning Jesus gave life to a lifeless bird. Who has the power to create life if not God ?

Your questioning here is so flawed. It's like asking "who was God to the French when Moses represented Yahweh" (what's my concern with that anyway? or "Does Allah represent Yahweh or Dieu or Olorun" Silly, really.

When did the French come into existence?

Allah was one of the Meccan idols and the idol they worshiped in Muhammad's family. Muhammad's grandfather was Mutaleb, who named his son Abdullai after his idol. Abdullai means servant of allahh, showing that allahh was the idol (god) they worshiped in Muhammad's family. Or which allahh was Mutaleb serving as an idolater ?

It was this same allahh the so-called Jubril directed Muhammad to lift up to the status of the true God and that is why you worship allahh today like idolaters worship their idols before islam. The quran confirms this and hadiths also confirm same:

Quran 2:158 Pickthall] Lo! (the mountains) As-Safa and Al-Marwah are among the indications of Allah. It is therefore no sin for him who is on pilgrimage to the House (of Allah) or visiteth it, to go around them (as the pagan custom is). And he who doeth good of his own accord, (for him) lo! Allah is Responsive, Aware.
So you can see how islamic worship is the custom of pagans.

From the hadith:

Doing Tawaf between Safa and Marwa is an Islamic ritual associated with the pilgrimage to Mecca. Safa and Marwa are two mounts, located at Mecca. This ritual entails Muslims walking frantically between the two mounts, seven times. This was originally a pagan pre-Islamic practice. Muhammad retained it for Islam, sanctioning it with yet another Qur'anic revelation.

Narrated 'Asim: I asked Anas bin Malik: "Did you use to dislike to perform Tawaf between Safa and Marwa?" He said, "Yes, as it was of the ceremonies of the days of the Pre-lslamic period of ignorance, till Allah revealed:'Verily! (The two mountains) As-Safa and Al-Marwa are among the symbols of Allah. It is therefore no sin for him who performs the pilgrimage to the Ka'ba, or performs 'Umra, to perform Tawaf between them.' " (2.158)
Sahih Bukhari 2:26:710

Now, tell me, why would the true God tell Muslims to continue the ways of the idolaters? This is one of the many reasons why allahh is the Devil in disguise who is pitching muslims against the true God.

Implying meaning ≠ unintelligent errors. Where did you learn that? Rather, implying meaning would be as a result of ambiguity, and I'm ready to accept that

I didn't say implying means unintelligent error. What I said is, you seem to know better than allahh for trying to imply for the quran to clear its error. Besides this omission of ",among his people", for which reason you are implying for the quran, there are so many other unintelligent errors that are found in the quran. I will show them to you on request.

QueenSalewa:
Lol. Why do you group the Christian god with the Jewish god? Repeat what you've just said to any Torah following Jew and they'd call it blasphemy.
Jews reject the concept of the trinity.
Jews reject the concept of incarnation.
Jews reject Jesus as messiah.
Jews reject Jesus as any type of divine figure.


...So which "Jewish and Christian Yahweh" are you talking about exactly?

The same Yahweh Jesus represented only that some Jews didn't believe him. He referred to Yahweh severally as his Father. All of Jesus disciples were once Jews and many of their converts were once Jews. The Old Testament was the operation of Jewish religion, which is still recognized by the Christians till date. They have a common God, Yahweh who they believe differently.

Is that all you have to say? What about Moses and Jesus not recognizing Kaaba? Would they not recognize it if it was truly built by their father Abraham?

What about allah declaring himself as a different deity from Yahweh the true God (Quran 109:1-6)? From where did allahh surface to become the God of the muslims when the Bible said only Jesus Gospel was to be preached till the end of the world (Mat. 24:14) ?

Which God did Moses the quran fraudulently called Muslim represent, Yahweh or allah ?

Who is allah who declared himself as not Yahweh ?

Who was God to the Arabs when Moses represented Yahweh and led Israelites on their way to Cannan ?

On who was the first Muslim, you have to imply that almost all the known prophets were first muslims "among their people". I don't think today's muslims are in the position to imply for the quran, which you claim is complete and perfect. It shows that it is muslims that are now perfecting the quran by implying some meanings and not the quran perfecting them. It means muslims can formulate anything for the quran to make sense.Please note that apart from the ommision of "among his people" which you are now implying, a number of unintelligent errors have been discovered in the quran that faults it as the word of God.

QueenSalewa:
Lol. Why do you group the Christian god with the Jewish god? Repeat what you've just said to any Torah following Jew and they'd call it blasphemy.
Jews reject the concept of the trinity.
Jews reject the concept of incarnation.
Jews reject Jesus as messiah.
Jews reject Jesus as any type of divine figure.


...So which "Jewish and Christian Yahweh" are you talking about exactly?

The same Yahweh Jesus represented only that some Jews didn't believe him. All of Jesus disciples were once Jews and many of their converts were once Jews. The Old Testament was the operation of Jewish religion, which is still recognized by the Christians till date.

Is that all you have to say? What about Moses and Jesus not recognizing Kaaba? Would they not recognize it if it was truly built by their father Abraham?

What about allah declaring himself as a different deity from Yahweh the true God (Quran 109:1-6)? From where did allahh surface to become the God of the muslims when the Bible said only Jesus Gospel was to be preached till the end of the world (Mat. 24:14) ?

Which God did Moses the quran fraudulently called Muslim represent, Yahweh or allah ?

Who is allah who declared himself as not Yahweh ?

Who was God to the Arabs when Moses represented Yahweh and led Israelites on their way to Cannan ?

lexiconkabir:
QueenSalewa its better you leave this old man, he has made it his sunnah to always ask the same questions in different ways when he is replied he will become ignorant deliberately, by Allah! all the issues he raised here on this thread has been refuted countless times.. as you've seen, your discussion with him has been futile, i advice you forget him!

You are a liar !!!

What did you say to refute it ? Paste it here and let's see.

If you are not a liar you cannot be a muslim.

What can you refute?

That the quran doesn't say allah is not Yahweh?

That Kaaba was not recognized by Bible prophets?

QueenSalewa:
Like I have said, first muslim *of their time* is implied. BUT... I accept that the prophets should have said "I am the first submitter of my time" to avoid confusion.

Why are you being purposely obtuse? Did you not read what I said about title not organised religion? Yes, Moses was Jewish AND muslim. They weren't mutually exclusive. Everybody that followed Moses was a submitter at that time too. Now that there is a new revelation, CURRENT Jews aren't submitters anymore, but they are People of The Book. It's not rocket science.

I'm thankful you posted the whole verse and not just one sentence. The verse says "believe not in God nor the Last Day".... Do Christians believe in God? Yes. Do they believe in the last day? Yes. So obviously that verse is calling out a very specific type of Christian/Jew who despite claiming to be people of the book, did bit actually believe in God or the last day. What the verse isn't saying is "Christians and Jews do not believe in God". What the verse IS saying is "fight the people of the book who do not believe in God and the last day".

People who do not/did not believe in God are obviously not muslims, if that's what you're asking. Next.

You are mixing things up here. Where did you find the Jews and Christians who didn't believe in God? That they believe in God is what made them Jews and Christians. The point is: Which God did they believe in? Note that the Jews and Christians believed in Yahweh not allah. It is because they believed in Yahweh and not allah that made Allah to command Muhammad to fight them.

Allah himself made it clear that he is not the same as Yahweh. But it was Yahweh that was God to the Jews and Christians before Muhammad's islam.

[Quran109:1-6]
1.Say: O disbelievers! (i.e the Jews and Christians who believed not in Allah as in Qur'an 9:29)

2. I worship not that which ye worship;

3. Nor worship ye that which I worship.

4. And I shall not worship that which ye worship.

5. Nor will ye worship that which I worship.

6. Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.

In those verses, there is no ambiguity about Allah differentiating himself from the God of the Jews and Christians and that is the reason they didn't believe in Allah as a strange god. The Jews and Christians knew their God and the ways of their God, but when Allah through Muhammad was introducing the ways of idol worshipers in the name of islam, the Jews and Christians knew Muhammad was not representing their God.

Besides, the Bible makes it clear that the world was not expecting islam:

Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

It is the Gospel of Jesus God expected people to preach till the end of the world, Muhammad's islam has no place in God's plan of salvation to mankind. Therefore the Jews and Christians had no reason to believe in Muhammad's allah.

Kaaba was claimed by Muslims to have been built by Abraham and Ishmael, meaning it had been existing in the time of Moses and Jesus. But neither Moses nor Jesus nor any of Bible prophets visited and venerated it because it was truly built by idolaters for their gods. Allah pretending to be God, cunningly introduced idol worship to people as the worship of God. The way they worship allah in Mecca annually is the say way idolaters worship their idols before Muhammad's islam. How can you worship God and idols the same way?


Now tell me, if Abraham truly built Kaaba as a house of God and resort for mankind, why did Moses and Jesus not talk about it or visit the place?

Click this link to read more:

www.nairaland.com/2644778/islam-meccans-religions-before-it

I brought all the analysis to prove to you allah is not the true God and that was why the people of the Book didn't believe in him. The Jews and Christians who submitted to God didn't do so in islamic sense.

Demmzy15:
Your problem is that you flex too much muscle, the lady didn't abuse anyone, she answered all with respect but because you're pained, you wrote up this garbage. A times I think you're a robot because a human being ought to possess sense especially when you claim you're educated, but no, you have nothing upstairs. Better go and join your other brothers in carrying that thing, at least you'll be useful!

What a mess you are saying as usual.

Do you believe the contents of those references?

Is this the explanation you could come up with to defend the atrocities of Muhammad and his jihadists?

Islam is about immoralities of all kinds and the height of wickedness. Raping women in the presence of their husband's before the poor men were beheaded.

QueenSalewa:
Ah. Yes. Reminder that the areas in the Qur'an which say that these people were the first Muslim are narratives of events that have happened. So, in context, when Mohammed said "I am the first of the muslims" the earlier verse begins with "Say (to the people he was addressing, The Qurayish, who were idolaters)"

"first muslim" is relative.

Abraham was the first submitter among his people.
Moses was the first submitter among his people.
Mohammed was the first submitter among his people.


Technically, the first muslim ever was the first human, Adam.

You really don't know what you are saying. So to you everybody is the first muslim, abi ? Do you know the meaning of "first" ? There is nowhere the quran says "among his people", that is just the formulation of Islamic apologists to justify Qur'an's error.

Moses was a Jew, yes or no ?

Was it Moses alone as a Jew that had the title "muslim" or did all Jews who followed him who submitted to God also have it? If yes, it means by implication, all Jews are muslims. Why then did the quran still say "Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low" (Qur'an 9:29).

The people who have been given the Scripture were the Jews and Christians, who the quran says they believed not in Allah. Do you still call those who believed not Allah Muslims?

cc: Demmzy15

QueenSalewa:
A muslim is anyone who submits to the One God, and believed in the monotheistic religion of their time. So at those times, those people were Muslims as they responded to the messenger of their time.

So yes, all those people you mentioned were muslims (the title, not the religion!)

Let me remind you that the question is not "who is a Muslim but who is the first Muslim.

Qur'an say Abraham was the first Muslim.

The same Qur'an says Moses was the first muslim.

The quran again says Muhammad is the first Muslim.

Now, who is the first muslim ?

I hope you will not abandon your argument.

QueenSalewa:
A muslim is anyone who submits to the One God, and believed in the monotheistic religion of their time. So at those times, those people were Muslims as they responded to the messenger of their time.

So yes, all those people you mentioned were muslims (the title, not the religion!)

Were Jesus Disciples monotheists ?

These same Disciples baptized their people in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Surely they were not monotheists. Then why did the quran call them muslims?

QueenSalewa:
Hello, I am a Muslim.

Firstly, you need to understand what is meant by the word "Muslim" as used in the Qur'an..
In the Qur'an "Muslim" is often used as a title for "submitter", rather than what it has come to mean today e.g. "follower of the organised religion of Islam".

I'm not sure which Muslim has claimed that Ishmael was the first Muslim. The Qur'an alludes to Abraham as the first Muslim and calls upon mankind to follow the path of Abraham.

Quran 3:95
"Say:God has spoken the truth: follow, then, the creed of Abraham, who turned away from all that is false, and was not of those who ascribe divinity to aught beside God."


and

Qur'an 3:67

"Abraham in truth was not a Jew, neither yet a Christian; but he was a muslim and one pure of faith"

Hope that helped.

The Qur'an also claims Moses who led the Jews was a Muslim. Moses as a Jew, was he a muslim because he submitted to God? Are Jews muslims ?

The Quran also claims Jesus was a Muslim. Jesus was a Jew, are Jews muslims because he submitted to God?

The quran also claims Jesus Disciples were muslims. The disciples were called Christians and they built Churches in their lifetime. Were they muslims because they submitted to God? Do muslims build Churches?

Honest answers to those questions will show lack of integrity of the quran.

mustymatic:
K

Exhausted !!!

UyiIredia:
U don call Muslims how many times na. Dem no gree come.

truthman2012: 1 - Muslims: 0

Don't mind them joh !

Jesus is winning o

Islam will soon die off on nairaland.

No Muslim has been able to tell the difference between Muhammad's jihad and today's terrorism. Why na ?

.

mustymatic:
hahahaha....I understand your pastors didn't show u that. read ya bible dude,
According to 2nd Corinthians 4:4, Satan is the god of this evil world...
“In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. ”
I understand you don't know the bible. take a medal. hahaha

The god of this world is Satan aka Allah and those he has blinded are the muslims. They have been blinded to see the truth of God's words and embrace satanic religion, islam.

Qpetz:
Oya go and hang yourself..

The truth angers you ? Am I the writer of the quran that testifies that Jesus followers are superior ?

I would not wish you to hang yourself, I would rather wish you to get life through Jesus Christ. But why is the spirit of islam about killing and death? That shows islam is from the Devil. As long as that spirit (jinns) remains in you, you will always want non-muslims dead. Like god like his slaves.

PHAYOL81:
There's something they say about change and time or need I stress on that? Yes there was a bible at Muhammad's time bt could you possibly tell me which of the series present today is actually the right version? Can you possibly point to one today with the original chapters, verses and textual arrangement? If so many changes could come up these length of time, what could possibly stop me from believing the right version is kept in one unreachable chamber somewhere to cover-up some secret ... and still, with the series of translation from the original Latin, I bet its corrupted.

I wonder what you guys say about Bible versions. It is only the English Bible that have versions and that is because there is new and old English and there is British and American English. You cannot find versions in Bible with local languages like Yoruba, Igbo or Hausa. Even the English versions are saying the same thing in different expressions. The intention is not to change the original messages.

Even the quran has serious differences in translations that change the original meaning. I know you will say the Arabic remains the same but what is the intention trying to confuse non-Arab readers?

Read: www.nairaland.com/2933766/bible-versions-better-than-quranic

mustymatic:
now for your info...wariduha means over it. that's all.. twist all you can, this is my last response insha Allah

Everyone will be brought to Hell, then the Righteous will be saved

Ibn Jarir reported from `Abdullah that he said concerning Allah's statement,

(There is not one of you but will pass over it.) "The bridge over Hell is like the sharp edge of a sword. The first group to cross it will pass like a flash of lightning. The second group will pass like the wind. The third group will pass like the fastest horse. The fourth group will pass like the fastest cow. Then, the rest will pass while the angels will be saying, `O Allah save them, save them.' '' This narration has supporting narrations similar to it from the Prophet in the Two Sahihs and other collections as well. These narrations have been related by Anas, Abu Sa`id, Abu Hurayrah, Jabir and other Companions, may Allah be pleased with them all. Ahmad also recorded that Umm Mubashshar, the wife of Zayd bin Harithah, said, "The Messenger of Allah was in the house of Hafsah when he said,

(No one who was present at the battles of Badr and Hudaybiyyah (of the Muslims) will enter into the Hellfire.) Then, Hafsah said, "Doesn't Allah say,

(There is not one of you but will pass over it (Hell) The Messenger of Allah replied by reciting,

(Then We shall save those who had Taqwa.) In the Two Sahihs there is a Hadith reported from Az-Zuhri, from Sa`id from Abu Hurayrah that the Messenger of Allah said,

(No one of the Muslims who has had three children, who all died, will be touched by the Hellfire, except for an oath that must be fulfilled.) `Abdur-Rahman bin Zayd bin Aslam commented on Allah's statement,

(There is not one of you but will pass over it "The passing of the Muslims (over the Hellfire) means their passing over a bridge that is over it. But the passing of the idolators over the Hellfire refers to their admission to the Fire.'' As-Suddi reported from Murrah, from Ibn Mas`ud, that he said concerning Allah's statement,

(this is with your Lord; a Hatman decree.) "An oath that must be fulfilled.'' Mujahid said, "Hatman means preordainment.'' Ibn Jurayj said the same. Concerning Allah's statement,

(Then We shall save those who had Taqwa. ) When all of the creatures passed over the Hellfire, and those disbelievers and the disobedient people who are destined to fall into it because of their disobedience, Allah will save the believers and the righteous people from it because of their deeds. Therefore, their passing over the bridge and their speed will be based upon their deeds that they did in this life. Then, the believers who performed major sins will be allowed intercession. The angels, the Prophets and the believers will all intercede. Thus, a large number of the sinners will be allowed to come out of Hell. The fire will have devoured much of their bodies, except the places of prostration on their faces. Their removal from the Hellfire will be due to the faith in their hearts. The first to come out will be he who has the weight of a Dinar of faith in his heart. Then, whoever has the next least amount after him. Then, whoever is next to that after him, and so forth. This will continue until the one who has the tiniest hint of faith in his heart, equal to the weight of an atom. Then, Allah will take out of the Fire whoever said "La ilaha illallah,'' even one day of his entire life, even if he never performed any good deed. After this, no one will remain in the Hellfire, except those it is obligatory upon to remain in the Hellfire forever. This has been reported in many authentic Hadiths from the Messenger of Allah . This is why Allah says,

(Then We shall save those who had Taqwa. And We shall leave the wrongdoers in it, Jithyya.)

You guys have quoted Ibn Kathir's Tafsir extensively on this thread to support your argument but refused to believe the same man because the truth he told about muslims going to hell didn't go down well with you. Why must you be deceiving yourselves?

You don't even believe Quran 3:85 that says all muslims will go to hell at death and some to be removed on the Day of Resurrection. So you only believe what your brain tells you and not what your god told you. Smh !!!

mustymatic:
Yes I want the names of the writers

Tell me the name of the particular person who wrote Qur'an 8:12 (with proof). Afteral men wrote the quran, not allahh himself.