₦airaland Forum

alutacontinua:
Bwuhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
it gets worse the moment she's old and smart enough to know that she's your biggest weakness
she'll sure take knowledge of the advantage at some point
and your wife? She just got her biggest competitor!
oedipus' complex is the cutest thing ever!

Confusion don cash me - was so expecting a boy. Now I'm in love with two girls and it's not illegal !
I need to set them against each other, so they don't join forces against me. I won't be a match for the two of them - with my mum on top sef?

alutacontinua:
pretty woman you got, TV! Still wishing to see your ugly face sometime
and that of our lil angel! Loads of love from my corner

Thanks - as you can see she's perfect except for a lil' eye trouble !

Oya, quickly, seeing as I'm in such a good mood.


TV

alutacontinua:
oops, my bad
and your son is oooooooooohhhhhh soooooo cute
*don't mind me, I just love pulling your daddy's legs*
Where is the pic of our lil angel?

I am actually not as confident as I would have been with another boy. I know I can't smack her for starters. My whole fatherhood model needs overhauling

Pix whens she's a lil' older. Let us enjoy her small first. Hoping she'll look like this;


TV

alutacontinua:
oh really?
congratulations! Best thing to ever happen to a man
I have no doubts that you'll be a wonderful dad....
The best thing that can happen to a girl is to have a wonderful dad.....nothing beats the feeling of knowing daddy got my back anytime anyday

Thanks very much Aluta.
Errr...Im already a wonderful dad !

TV

^{**Auntie Aluta, why did you diss my daddy?**}

Shollypopzz:
What are your thoughts?

I think one has to be a total slut to try and shame a virgin.
Although being one does not necessarily make you classy, it can certainly help.

Come, is this the piss-artiste formerly known as BananaBender? And if it is, have you recovered?


TV

coogar:
baby daughter?
congratulations a billion times. wow! it's always a good news to see the father of a newborn grinning from ear to ear.

Cheers bro, Wifey and I agreed that if it's a girl, it should look like her .


TV

coogar:
what about regular sėx?
if walking can make one healthier & fitter, then sėx should be up there too if it stretches past the 30-min mark.

It counts.
I just consider it more enjoyment than exercise. More pleasure than hard work. Use of cream, chocolate and ice cream + post prandial snacking negates all the calories burnt !


TV

^{**not sure I'll be getting it regularly for some time. I had a baby daughter earlier today. Will I have to become pro-feminist too ?**}

ihedinobi2:
Bro, I love your routine. The earlier oyibo was Greek to me. Honestly, the whole exercise thing is sounding so technical and involved that I just plain tuned out at first. But I can relate to this.

I wondered at first if I was getting that wrong. When I benchpress I like to do slow reps. But then I didn't find much material in support of it. Any, in fact. And the demos I found on the Web were all about fast reps and whatnot. I like heavy weights, short sets and slow reps.

How does it work out for you? You don't build much bulk, do you? How's your endurance? Why no aerobics? Do you run at all? Cycle? Skip? Do you bother about diet?

The key is too find what works for you. MAde somewhat easier by the wealth of information out there and the tried and tested regimes available.

Most important is understanding that keeping fit and healthy lends an edge to ones masculinity - and acting on that

ihedinobi2:
@TV01, diet, big bro. I like meat abeg. What could be so bad about meat? And, aren't there supplements that we need? Like some proteins?

Nothing wrong with red meat bro. I eat it all - white and red, beef, goat/lamb & even pork - it's just a relatively small part of my overall meat intake. It's probably about 60:30:10, fish:chicken:red meat. And whatever meat, try and go for quality, which I think is actually easier in Nigeria.

I think red meat gets a bad rap. I read a study which claimed the problem is really with the lack of overall variety of some red meat eaters - no veg or fruit, legumes or pulses etc - not so much the red meat.

Unless you are training heavily for competition or as a professional, I don't think supplementation should be required. In any event, with all the red meat, if any is, it's probably not protein !


TV

bellong:
On a lighter note, my exercise regimen is making sure I trek at least 2 km/day..

I am as fit as I can be...

Walking - the basic human exercise. A good workout, especially the power variant. I'd hazard you could be fitter, even if not much healthier.

Good to hear sha!


TV

chaircover:
Lets go there
Lots of good info
Thanks

No problemo.

chaircover:
Pls What are the greens in the picture beside the basil? . . . . also whats in the poly bag? Is it courgettes?

Cress in the small containers
Fresh mint leaves in the bag - my bad, even I can't tell looking at it - caught mint craze on holidays a while back. Had them as part of the salad selection.

chaircover:
I didnt quite get how you cut your tomatoes, but I like cherry toms anyway, so I can use that for the time being

No biggie - firmness is key. I slice them in half from top to bottom. Then slice length-ways with the flat side face down. Then half them if the slices are really big.

chaircover:
Do you do anything with the smoked salmon?or use as is. Some people say that you dont really need to cook salmon . .I am not a fan of raw fish

Sushi !
If it's just because I like it warm, I oven cook/grill it for about 8 mins - about 12 -15 if you like it crispy - like wifey - instead of slightly undercooked like I do.


TV

crackhaus:
And if eventually Nigeria does have more divorces, will that make the institution of marriage better and more respectable?

Abi?

carefreewannabe:
Yet, my grandmother will tell me to count myself lucky that I have more freedom and independence than her generation; not because my grandpa was a bad husband or her marriage unhappy, but because of all that she has seen in her life and how depressing and devastating the marriage institution became for some people.

How does the "marriage institution" become depressing and devastating for some people?

carefreewannabe:
Neither my mum nor my grandmother, who have had a long lasting marriage, would want me to live the lives many women of their generation lived.

And what point are you making here? If you have more freedom and independence, shouldn't that enable you to make better choices? Is a "not bad" husband" and a "not unhappy" marriage less likely with more choice?

carefreewannabe:
To be honest, I am so happy that gender roles have become more flexible.
When I think of what I would have missed if I followed the traditional route, I feel that it is a depressing thought.

I would have been trained to be a mother and housewife and my life would revolve around cooking and house chores. What a boring life.

The way I was brought up, I was lucky to enjoy education, primary, secondary and tertiary. I was lucky enough to travel and study in different countries, learn about different cultures, meet interesting people and develop mentally.

I now have a job that I love, that fulfills me and that gives me the feeling that I am able to make a difference every day by helping people.

I am interested in politics, economics, sociology, music, different cultures, literature and able to understand the complexities of life.

I still cook and do my house chores but there is more to my life than that and I would never change with any woman who used to live in the past just because it would reduce the divorce rate.

And why do you presume that women cannot/did not or do not have/do all of the above and more and still be wives, mothers and homemakers/or housewives - and by choice

carefreewannabe:
I see the advantages of the progress we have made instead of focusing on the disadvantages.

Would an inquiring mind not at least weigh the two and come to some net position. And increased divorce is an advantage?

carefreewannabe:
I can imagine that the divorce rate equals the number of unhappy marriages in the past, the only difference is that people are not trapped in these marriages any longer, which, for me, is a good thing because I wouldn't want to sacrifice my precious life on an unhappy and unhealthy union.

And all your education and exposure tells you that marriages should end in divorce due to "unhappiness"? Or that being unhappy and married means trapped? Even if you can correlate the unhappiness to being married.

- Tell us please, how do we quantify unhappiness - especially as a metric for divorce? What level of happiness warrants divorce?
- Does your "imagination" tell you that what this generation would consider happy or unhappy is the same for past generations?
- If one wanted to strengthen something, would you consider ways to kill it to be the best way to do that?

Carefreewannabe, you continuously make great effort to insidiously deride marriage - something you have personally rejected. And weirdly, you take a compulsive interest in other peoples marriages and discussions about it?

If your "relationship" arrangement is better or even good, why not you spend your time extolling the virtues of what you practice, rather than denigrating something that others joyfully and successfully do?

I respond to your posts on this issue only because you could mislead many with your nice sounding and liberal - but totally lacking understanding - posts. And 5 people thought enough of your write-up to make the effort of liking it - that's worrying?


TV

chaircover:
Leave my Beko Fridge ooooooo
You want to get me into trouble
When oga wanted us to get a fridge from another manufacturer, I insisted on doing ijebu
I dare not go back to him now to complain about "weepy and soggy" salads

Use growing salad and bagged or fresh as fresh as possible. If rinsing fresh cut, use salt water. Airtight container in fridge. Decant only what you need about 2/3 hours before use.

chaircover:
Okay back to the salads
Pls list the veg and herbs that you use.
Do you cut your tomatoes or do you use cherry tomatoes
I find that tomatoes can be very naughty when they are cut . . .even in sandwiches.

Please check the first post with pictures of salad - ingredients in bold at the bottom

I prefer vine-ripened normal tomatoes, or even steak tomatoes - wifey prefers cherry - we used to make two separate containers as she doesn't like red onion either .

Slice off the top, cut down through the middle, lie on the flat side and then slice across. Then through the middle if they are really big. Always use firm tomatoes.

chaircover:
What do you do with your mackrel? Grilling?
I am assuming that you buy it fresh and prepare it yourself
Or do you buy the already prepped ones from the shops.

I get wet fish and the ready prepared ones (packaged). But the fishmonger always guts them for me. But only the best either way. Salmon, Tuna (never tinned|), trout, haddock and red bream all feature prominently. Wife makes soup with the bream. Wet ones are typically flash fries and then grilled. But not mackerel or sea bass as they are very oily fish - just grill no oil.

chaircover:
Have you considered opening a separate thread for this?
Cos us girls can benefit too and some of us dont like barging into your room
oh and thanks for the answers to my previous questions

No need, the men here all care about their diets and many turn their hands to cooking - Men make the best chefs ! And women are most welcome. Feminisation is not.


Marco Pierre White

BoboYekini:
Thanks boss. This is a fine thread. I hope money/finance issues are discussed soon.

No probs dude.

Just air the issue/topic and dem boyz go tackle am ! Truth is, many guys here are after a financial edge and are very keen to explore/discuss.


TV

netotse:
I plan to start doing renegade man makers, they are modified [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burpee_%28exercise%29]burpees[/url], I would recommend them. Try doing ten in a row and you would understand why...lol.

Watched the video, sort of a combo burpee. Really good complex move.

Tuesday workout (which was on Wednesday, but moved as I had runz with wifey for a while, now back to Wednesdays - done 2 days ago)

Mixed Kettlebell and circuit routine

2 Kettlebells 12kg & 16Kg. Ten kettlebell exercises. Single handed and 10 each side, or 20 if double handed. Use 16 kg for 1 & 6, as follows;

1 Kettlebell swing (good for warming up)
2 High pulls
3 Snatch
4 Clean to rack
5 Halo/Round the world
6 Reverse Lunges
7 Figure 8
8 Rows
9 Squat press
10 Double hand overhead raise

The rub is between each kettle bell exercise, perform 10 press ups, after the first 10 KB exercises, do another set of 10 with 10 burpees in between, after the second set, a third set with 10 tuck jumps interspersed – 55 mins

So in total, thats, 100 burpees, 100 press ups and 100 tuck jumps, as well as the 300 moves with the bells. It's just me myself and I, so I'm looking to improve timewise. It's a tough workout with just two sets of 10 let alone 3 - I'm typically knackered and slow by the 3rd set.

Alternatives KB exercises are;
Side lunge
Press
Lunge press
Deadlift
Goblet squat
Russian Twist
Turkish get up – more advanced
Nigerian grab - no one has ever successfully completed this

Some of the kettlebell exercises can be replicated with dumbells - I started at x3 sets of 7 and worked my way up - find your level/experiment.

I also do an intense spin class on Fridays and a body pump class - both instructor led - on Sundays. The body pump is modified - a combination of high reps with weights and circuit type exercises like burpees, press ups etc. - a bit like my Wednesday session. I also have alternative sessions like skipping, shadow boxing, aqua aerobics, Insanity etc, and I'm planning to get back into my running.

Just back from spin, it's intense, always leave like a litre of sweat on the floor! Salmon and salad with a small tub of vanilla yoghurt.

Beddy byes - will sleep like a log!


TV

chaircover:
TV doesnt your salad go "funny" after a day or two?

Nope - even before I perfected it, it was good for 5 or 6 days before it got whiffy.

I used to incorporate steamed broccoli, but it goes off quite quickly. Eliminated beetroot and beansprouts after experimenting. Make sure the peppers, onions, tomatoes and cucumber are all firm - they usually are except for the tomatoes anyway - one quickly expiring component will "off" the whole thing.

chaircover:
Maybe my fridge is too cold
I need to make salad as I go and so need to be in ASDA every few days and that gan gan is the issue.

I use an airtight container to store - see 3rd pic - and keep it refrigerated. Swap your Beko for Bosch biko !

Lets say for some reason it's a short week. I'll prepare for 4 days - no matter how bad it has to last for 4 days, maybe try that? It's not a must I have it everyday. I'm typically satisfied with about 4 times a week min. But usually have it 5-6.

chaircover:
There is always rice in the cupboard but not always decent eatable lettuce
Whats the trick pls?

Do you just make the sald up when you need it? Lettuce tends to have a short expiry date. I use a lot of growing salad, growing cress and potted herbs (Basil). I also use mint leaves.

Any help?

TV

BoboYekini:
bros, flywheel wey I dey talk na engine plate wey I dey fix for the barbell as weight o. Nor mind my nonsense grammar.
Yes, I get intensity, basically because I do the reps per set to failure( depending on your goal, but low to medium reps of 10-15 work for bulk and definition. I adjust the weights to achieve failure within this rep range) and also keep the rest time between sets to 1min. And, that slow controlled lifting and lowering is critical for me.
Especially the lowering phase.
The 3 exercises because they are compound target the whole body. Squats, pullups and presses are the standard compound movements. I don't need to isolate my biceps, triceps, e.t.c. They still get plenty of work from the compound movements.
P.S. I stopped for 3months because I was working in an inconvenient location.

Capeesh re flywheel

To be honest your take has given me a new perspective. I've always considered most weight based programs to be about bulk/size and not all round fitness - neither have I really seen evidence of how it helps stamina.

The guys I typically see at the gym always seem to be checking their phones and yakking between sets - never sewating ! My workouts give no leave for that. And too be honest, I feel like I have much better musculature and proportion, I'm just not huge - and I don't want to be

As for the location, is it so bad that you can't do bodyweight exercises or avail yourself of a few dumbbells or kettlebells? All the best sha, and I'm sure having been there, you'll want to get back.


TV

BoboYekini:
My routine is alternating the exercises below for different days, sundays off.
barbell squats,
Seated military press or weighted pushups,
Shrugs or pullups.
3 major compound movements using slow cadence reps. 4 seconds concentric/up, 4 seconds eccentric/down or so. 5 sets to failure( usually at about 12-15 reps per set). Rest between sets 1-2min.
At the end it takes me 30minutes average per session. The only time I do isometrics is the odd wristcurl now and then.
The only equipment I use is two - four flywheels and a bar( same bar I fix in the doorway for pullups).
I never do aerobics, I find that squats get me racing quite fast as well.

BoboYekini:
It does. For all of the above lol. Actually, it took me a while to settle on this routine. Trust me, its golden I was looking for maximum benefits with shortest time per session. And not hurting myself too badly in the process. Its kinda loosely based on Project Kratos by Drew Baye.
All those sets are to failure, mind. I've not trained for about 3months now so I'm off course but will get back on.

I do barbell squats in my body pump class - We do squats for about 4 mins - so huge reps - I'm good for about 40 - 50% bodyweight
Don't do the military press, but we do incorporate the bench press and variations - again high reps
We also do a lot of press ups - Interspersed with the weights
Have been ruminating for a while now on how to incorporate pull-ups into to my routine. I've even watched "Barmaster videos" - fear cash me !

I know Project Kratos is high intensity - do you get that from your variation? Does the "to failure" ensure this, and with just 3 exercises? And why have you stopped for 3 months?

And please, which one is flywheel? I only know it as a variation on spin - which I'm doing tonight incidentally !

TV

coogar:
i can't skip for shyte.....
after the 12th swing, the rope gets tangled with my legs. my attention is always all over the place.

i just do my normal aerobics and bench-press 200lbs up when i am up to it.....after 1-2 hrs, i am already missing my decor. it's time to go home.

It's whatever works for you and gives you the gains (helps you reach the targets) you set for yourself.

I couldn't imagine working out for more than an hour. I don't even do back to back sessions/classes anymore. One single high intensity session at a time.


It's good to hear you are on it - in whatever way.


TV

BoboYekini:
My routine is alternating the exercises below for different days, sundays off.
barbell squats,
Seated military press or weighted pushups,
Shrugs or pullups.

3 major compound movements using slow cadence reps. 4 seconds concentric/up, 4 seconds eccentric/down or so. 5 sets to failure( usually at about 12-15 reps per set). Rest between sets 1-2min.
At the end it takes me 30minutes average per session. The only time I do isometrics is the odd wristcurl now and then.
The only equipment I use is two - four flywheels and a bar( same bar I fix in the doorway for pullups).
I never do aerobics, I find that squats get me racing quite fast as well.

Holá, do you find this works for you? As in gives you the body - and health fitness - you want (or the girls want - if that's a motivator )


TV

netotse:
10 mins ke? 40mins was more like it o, even that is optimistic, will time it today. You're right about the variants thing though. It will prolly start to get boring at some point. I'm now wondering why I chose 100 days instead of 30...The Lord is my strength sha.

How far with the video on the skipping technique and all? dropbox, youtube etc would suffice if NL can't take the video.

Another thinh about varying it, is the ability to do more.

So for example, do 10 burpees, followed by 10 press-ups, then 10 star jumps, then 10 single leg squat thrusts etc. This means you are using a different body part and varying the pace; you can therefore keep going and keep your pace high. You can also mix the cardio with weights. Overall better in terms of how much and how many parts you work. View things like "Insanity" for tips.

I planned to post my Tuesday workout. But didn't want to do so, until I actually did it. To follow.


TV

^{**I think NL allows bigger files now, so I'll try and post my skipping one in full at some point.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZX-NdILjBWY**}

netotse:
@TV and the other's
speaking from a naija perspective, what are those things that shouldn't be in our diets since they say changing your diet is an important part of getting fit.

Diet is a very wide ranging issue, and it really depends on how deep one wants to go - and achieve. You can look at all kinds of types - personality, body, blood etc. - and diets vegan, paleo etc. - but as ever, I found it best to start small and progressively make changes whilst figuring out what works for you.

Firstly, I don't use any protein supplements, creatine, or stuff like that. Not to say there is no benefit, I just have a cost (low) and convenience mantra. Plus I'm pretty happy with my current state.

Things like steroids or really hardcore stuff are do not even get a mention. I have recently started taking liquid iron at the behest of my wife and will use fish oil and a multivitamin when I remember.

If I buy a packet of biscuits I find really moreish, I'll scoff the lot (personality type). My brother will have one every other day or so and they'll last a month. I'm getting better, but long since adopted a spartan approach . All the bad stuff out - then I relax on occassions - like on holiday or at christmas, and indulge sometimes.

My standard diet is porridge/correct brown bread/or sometimes cereal for breakfast. I try for a wholesome lunch and for dinner, but work can lay waste to the best intentions - brown bagging? I have salad and fish or chicken 4 - 7 times a week (makes things easier for wifey). I snack on fruits and nuts all day.

We literally do not buy red meat - although if we are entertaining wifey may lay on a goat-meat stew or the occassional lamb joint. If we eat out, I always give serious considertaion to the steak/red meat options. I will eat proper bred/organic pork, but tend not to so as not to cause offense.

The salad makes a diffence - a huge one. And I always feel one kind if I go without for to long. I tend to make a huge container at the weekend and prepare the fish or chicken on the day. It's haddock tonight, chicken yesterday and I had red bream earlier in the week. I'll have salmon on Friday and I have mackeral on standby.

Abstemiousness is a plus. For a long time I more or less skipped brekkie and would only have fruit before midday. There are many a day when I only have 2 meals. I know the prevailing thought on brekkie and the king-prince-pauper paradigm, but I had my reasons - making weight as a boxer etc. - and this is not advice, just sharing. Controlling our appetites, bodies is a good thing.


TV

^{**the salad is lettuce, including growing salad and cress, fresh mint & basil leaves, then tomatoes, red onion, cucumber & peppers. I store avocados and usually slice one in. Sprinkle with pumpkin seeds, linseeds, sunflower seeds and raisins &/or cranberries. Dress with olive oil and red or white wine vinegar, sometimes lemon. tiny amounts of sea salt and coarse ground black pepper to season**}

netotse:
Boss...no be only you
I happened to come across something called the 100burpees for 100 days challenge yesterday and I now said let me fall in...my mistake.

After doing like 20 I was cursing whoever invented the darn exercise. Eventually completed the hundred (with several breaks in betweeen), after I was done, my trajectory was fridge (to get the coldest drink possible), shower and then bed, I kid you not!

My left hamstring was throbbing mennnn...Cant remember the last time I perspired that much. Nice feeling though, the journey to fitness isn't easy.

Morning after, my thighs feel like lead(expected), I now had to park at one end of the office complex and walk 1km to the other...that burpee fella cannot be a child of God o

I'm thinking of starting the first 10 and last 10 of the 100 burpees as man makers until I can do a lot more. Will replace lifting with inclined pressups (I want to be able to do a handstand.
I'm also going to do a 30days plank challenge to improve my core strength (them abs must come by fire by force). When I was in uni I used to jogo(capoeira) and my cartwheels where lousy, I just realised it was because I've always lacked core strength .

will see if I have enough juice left to skip after the two (burpees and planking) today.

100 burpees non-stop !

Actually, good to prove a point or as part of a wider session - even with breaks or at a slow pace, 100 burpees can't take more than 5 - 10 minutes depending.

But it is an impressive feat either way. I don't think I coul do 100 non-stop. Rarely do more than 20-25 at a stretch. I'd probably be looking at 5 or 6 sets with breaks.

Also worth noting that it won't work the whole body - and certainly not equally - per my first point. But burpees - or variants - remain a great exercise and part of any regime - more on this in a later post.

netotse:
@TV and the other's
speaking from a naija perspective, what are those things that shouldn't be in our diets since they say changing your diet is an important part of getting fit.

Will post seperately on this - I'm very big on diet.

netotse:
P.S.
All those sexy ladies making exercise videos on youtube ehn...God is watching them...smh

I've come across Cross-fit lady videos occassionally and though..."hmmm impressive"...I have no problem with a sculpted look on women .


TV

alutacontinua:
you're just very allergic to change

Not really, but always like to be informed and give pause for thought were there are moral considerations. I woul dimagine most people would do the same - unless they had no moral concenrs about it.

alutacontinua:
I believe they'll not go on a mass scale at first, probably start with about 4 or 5 amd watch them over the years for any issues. if everything goes well, then..............

I kind doubt that for a number of reasons;
1. One's legislated for it moves into tthe domain of regulated medical practice. Anyone qualified can carry it out.
2. The demand may be relatively low - women who suffer from the problem - but time is of the essence; some don't have that kind of time.
3. There has been no such suggestion in the reports

alutacontinua:
I hope for everything to go well though, but if care is not taken, sounds like a breeding ground for mutations

I understand that some believe that mutations are not always a bad thing - and without them, we wouldn't be here !


TV

^{**morals & mutations**}

5minsmadness:
Good evening one and all.

After days of meditating on this topic and the ensuing responses that came after it, I decided to get with the program and pick up my skipping ropes from where I had put them. I am proud to say that two days after picking up the skipping ropes I actually skipped 100counts this morning after which I promptly lapsed into a coma. Upon recovery I felt good about it and went on to complete another 400reps. I felt good. Really good. I hope to do another 500 before I go to sleep and then make it a daily affair, God willing. Thanks for the inspiration.

Great to hear 5mins. I am gladdened. Lets encourage each ther with progress updates and tips etc. It may be an idea to translate your effort into time and aim to increase the sessions. Thirty minutes with good technique is a solid workout - even if it's x2 15 minute sessions to start.


TV

carefreewannabe:
Dear TV01,

Most felicitous Carefreewannabe

carefreewannabe:
who told you that I support or oppose gay marriages?

Carefree by repeatedly claiming you are not a homophobe, you have to support "gay marriage". Non-support makes you a de-facto (see what I did there ) homophobe. One who by definition opposes "gay rights". Please make engaging you a little more challenging.

carefreewannabe:
In case you have forgotten, the thread was not about same se*x marriages but about homes*exuality in general.

If it's about "homosexuality in general", then it's prima facie about SSM. Duh?
And opposition - or otherwise - to SSM was introduced as an example of something used as a litmus test for homophobia.

carefreewannabe:
You were the one who brought marriage into the discussion and I challenged your arguments. That's all.

Actually, you didn't challenge my arguments, you merely made a string of assertions that did not get into the ring, lace up gloves, or even call my argument out !

carefreewannabe:
You can call me whatever you want but first make sure you get what I am saying right instead of reading meaning into it. Thanks

What is required is that you clearly grasp what is being discussed and understand the implication of any assertions you make !

No to "gay marriage", "no to gay adoption"


Teefee

pickabeau1:
You got it right
Nothing beyond the average is ever simple.
The degenerative diseases caused by mitochondrial issues are terrible
One woman in the bbc article i read a while back lost all her kids and will soon lose the last one

its a chance for families like this

And who wouldn't want to show compassion - but is it the only chance?

pickabeau1:
Yes no one knows the uncharted areas this could lead to

I'm no geneticist - by a long shot, can't even claim much elementary science knowledge , but all sorts of scenarios come to mind. I hope they are mostly mute or they have them covered off.


TV

pickabeau1:
a chance to remove untreatable diseases via mitochondrial transplant

I am not sure it's that simple, or the process as described.

The nucleus of the embryo with the mitochondrial problems is removed and placed in ann embryo with issue free mitochondria.
Essentially, you have 2 embryos to start with and only one at the end. One is in a sense "killed", hence the ethical opposition by some.

The other question I have is how we know that there are no other consequences?


TV

carefreewannabe:
I never said so and because you are twisting my words, I will ignore the rest and we will talk again when you quote me accurately.

Good night TV. Have a good rest.

I slept well thanks . Hope liekwise?

So it's the usual Carefree. A mix of groundless assertions, pointless diversions and ruses. Characterising everything as simplistic and asking pointless qurestions.

You make no points are provide any solid reasons why we should have "gay marriage". The best you can muster is to say it's happened in the past?

And then you hightail it. You have form. When you can show why or how redefining marriage will benefit society or improve on what we have, I'll be all ears.

Finally, did you know that redefining marriage to fully incorporate the notion of same-sex unions means the particulars of consummation and adultery no longer apply?

Essentially marriage then becomes a union of two people which is not necessarily faithful or lifelong. It basically reduces it to just any type of relationship. Kind of like what you have - congrats, you are "gay married" and you didn't even realise !


TV

As ever, you have no substantive position. Gay marriage should be allowed because;

1. It happened in the historical past
2. Because abuse happens in care homes & among priests/in churches
3. Because some hets make a mess of marriage
4. Because identifying as homosexual is like being black
5. Becuse people should be able to define marriage as they choose

Nothing about what marriage is, why it came into being, what it does, or most of all what re-defining it says. Absurdly simplistic !

carefreewannabe:
If you first show me how it prevents a society from flourishing.

1. Marriage ceases to be legally or socially endorsed as our way of raising children - it merely becomes the acknowledgement of desire.
2. The norms of the homosexual lifestyle become embedded in marriage - concepts such as adultery, consummation, fidelity etc, all disappear.
3. Legitimising what is an aberrant and unhealthy lifestyle, will see it proliferate and generate a huge health cost to society
4. And of course there's the problems faced by those who do not buy into it being victimised by legal fiat....to mention a few
5. Gay unions demand legitimisation and benefits from a society they add no value to.

carefreewannabe:
Should, would, could. You can champion whatever you want, the reality is that we live in a world, in which a great number of traditional marriages end up in failure, if not in divorce then in homes where arguments, domestic abuse, lack of love are the order of the day. Welcome to the real world TV!

And this is a cogent argument for gay unions because...?

carefreewannabe:
Who said churches were the major player?
Who said abuse is ALWAYS magnified in care home situations?

You tried to smear church in order to justify gay unions. You also made the false bait and switch of care homes being the only alternative for orphans. It is true however that abuse is more likely in a care home.

carefreewannabe:
Not necessarily, if I had to choose between you and the gay couple I know, I would choose them. I mean it.

And like I said, that is more indicative of your shallow thinking and warped ideology. And immersion in your own selfish desires. You'd risk your childs future to prove a misplaced ideological point?

No surprise, as you argue for gay marriage and gay adoption, whilst neither understanding or having the wherewithal to marry yourself and lacking the ability to make a childs welfare paramount over your desires - quite gay really !

carefreewannabe:
That's your problem, not mine, am not homophobic.

Parroting the word homophobic - which is actually meaningless - does not an argument make. I believe marriage is a distinctively male/female relationship and is best for the welfare of any resulting children. Label that belief as you please.

carefreewannabe:
Let those whom it serves so well, endorse it. The small % should not have any considerable impact on this beautiful institution that breeds so many children and future adults with all sorts of psychological issues.

As much as it delights me to expose the paucity of your arguments, it saddens me that you make them.

Redefining marriage changes it for everyone and restates it purpose to civilisation. We are not just expanding it - lets say for example allowing 1st cousin marriage (and I know that happens in some places) - we are changing it's very essence. It is not about the numbers, it's about what we state as it's definition and purpose.

carefreewannabe:
Thanks to gay people it is not YET overpopulated.

The non-existent breeding ability of gay couples is statistically insignificant to the worlds population

carefreewannabe:
They don't increase them like heaters*exual couples. See Nigeria.

Nigeria is not overpopulated - it suffers poor management and resource utilisation

carefreewannabe:
For you. Once again, the concept is not universal. I don't feel like going round in circles.
And the societal concept of marriage in the West is NOW not only male / female but also male / male and female / female.

Nope, society never made that call - a few elitists in Governments did - and in time when society sees the fallout, nature will take it's course.

carefreewannabe:
So for you to define marriage the way you do, everyone has to define it the same way?

I don't define marriage my way. It's what it is and always has been. If marriage is individually defined it becomes meaningless.

carefreewannabe:
So anal s*ex is now a mental disorder?

Along with tribadism,fisting, felching, docking and anilingus, the use of small furry animals and copious amounts of chemicals, amongst others.

carefreewannabe:
If you think that gay marriages will prevent Western societies from flourishing, you are free to move back to Nigeria.

I am free to move to Nigeria regardless !

carefreewannabe:
Saying that homos*exuals are mentally ill is not discrimination
It is as scientifically proven as the statement that black people are less intelligent.

No. That was the prevailing scientific thinking until the 70's and it was never systematically refuted, it was overturned using ideological pressure.

As to black people being less intelligent or not, that is neither here nor there. If it's the case, does it make them less human or demand they be given special rights. Is intelligence the sum of a person or even the main or most desired quality?

You're on a long run of poor form Carefree . Up your game or face the prospect of relegation to the romance board.


TV

carefreewannabe:
Says who?

Simplistic

carefreewannabe:
Wrong, group marriage takes place between males and females.

Show us where this practice is extant and of itself leads to a flourishing community? It's one of the exceptions that proves the rule of marriage as defined. As ever, your shoddy ideology precludes you seeing the big picture.

carefreewannabe:
And there were gay marriages in ancient times. Free education for all.

As above, never in any significant way. And certainly not as the mainstay of a flourishing community. They would never have been anything other than a parody or expression degeneracy. Afterall one Emperor married his horse, why not champion that as a form of marriage. Or your sister that married herself the other day ! Abberations and perversions are exceptions that prove the rule.

carefreewannabe:
http://www.reformation.org/perverted-marriage-of-nero.html And an orphanage is "as close an environment as possible" or better one run by the Catholic church, in which children are forced to se*xually satisfy the priest or the nun.

Strawman - who is championing orphanages? Children should be placed in a replica of the normal biological arrangement. Governments should incentivise it to ensure all have this possibility. Orphanages are not something I champion, neither is gay adoption.

Double strawman - churches are not the only one or the major player in orphanages.
Triple strawman - abuse is always magnified in care home situations

carefreewannabe:
Welcome to the real world! In the best interest of kids.

You've been served here

carefreewannabe:
I would rather give my kids to a homes*exual couple (friends I know very well) if I was about to die than to a holy orphanage.

Are you a farm animal? What's with the straw?
It would be best for your kids to be placed within a natural parenting sdituation with relatives as close to you as possible, followed by those culturally similar, then at least a male/female union.

Your ideological lockjaw will not permit you to do what is in the best interest of your kids. Is it the same pathos preventing you marrying, whilst championing it for the ineligible. Shame and confusion

carefreewannabe:
You don't have to celebrate anything. I have never been asked to celebrate homes*exuality, have you?

That happens merely by legally codifying it and giving it societal endorsement. It's furthered by making those that don't agree keep silent or actively participate.

carefreewannabe:
And gay marriages are the outcome of same s*ex unions, so?

I like to give you a little credence - perhaps it's unmerited?
There is no such thing as "gay marriage" - they are redefining marriage so it captures same-sex couples. There's a difference

carefreewannabe:
I don't understand how the relatively small percentage of gays in a society hinder societies from flourishing but I can see how they are useful, keyword overpopulation.

1. I don't understand why we need to redefine something that has served so many, so well, for so long just to legitimise this small %.
2. Another Ideological blind spot - who told you the world had an overpopulation problem?
3. And how do homosexual unions change population numbers - as they don't actually procreate - am I oversetimating you?

carefreewannabe:
Like I have already told you, your concept of marriage is not universal and has never been.

It's not my concept - it's a societal concept, marriage as defined. Male/female.

carefreewannabe:
How exactly do they re-define the rights of others?

If they redefine it, what I am left with, is not what I entered into. What marriage was for is now changed, and what it does is done away with.

carefreewannabe:
Nobody can force you to endorse anything and nobody is trying to. Last time I checked, you still have the freedom of opinion and speech.

Legally codifying marriage as a homosexual institution means socieltal endorsement. Most people don't want to - it's been forced on populaces around the world. And in the West, you cannot have a negative opinion about it without being labelled homophobe or bigot.

carefreewannabe:
Define psychological disorder.

In this case an wrongly ordered desire and use of bodily organs in a physcally dissonant way.

carefreewannabe:
Wrong! This is ONLY true for some parts of ancient Greece. In some other parts gay marriages were accepted, not only in Greece but in other parts of the world too.

I have schooled you at length about abberations, exceptions, flourishing societies and proving the rule. If they were started and died away, there was a reason for that. An unworkable , unvaluable or deleterious novation.

Why do you argue against polygamy?

carefreewannabe:
Are you implying that it was permitted but that some / all / most people still considered it abnormal?

Smoking is permitted - and healthwise less dangerous than homosexuality - is it normal?

carefreewannabe:
If it was permitted but some people considered it abnormal, then nothing has changed. For a conservative person like you, it must be good news.

The Gospel is the only good news !

carefreewannabe:
Wrong!

Evidence exists that same-sex marriages were tolerated in parts of Mesopotamia and ancient Egypt. Artifacts from Egypt, for example, show that same-sex relationships not only existed, but the discovery of a pharaonic tomb for such a couple shows their union was recognized by the kingdom. Meanwhile, accounts of the Israelites’ departure for Canaan include their condemnation of Egyptian acceptance of same-sex practice. In actuality, same-sex marital practices and rituals are less known in Egypt compared to Mesopotamia, where documents exist for a variety of marital practices, including male lovers of kings and polyandry. None of the recorded laws of Mesopotamia, including the Code of Hammurabi, contain restrictions against same-sex unions despite the fact that marriages are otherwise well regulated (Eskridge).
http://www.randomhistory.com/history-of-gay-marriage.html

And what has this shown except that it was at times "tolerated", "existed" and not "legislated for as opposed to actively legislated against". I have spoken at length about abberations, ill thought out novation, rules and exceptions.

Are you saying just because a practice was at one time historically extant, it legitimises it? What of slavery? or public beheadings?
http://www.reformation.org/perverted-marriage-of-nero.html

carefreewannabe:
You can refuse to publicly declare your approval, in the same way people refuse to publicly declare their approval for black or Muslim people even though discrimination based on gender, skin color or religious affiliation is forbidden.

It's not the same thing. In any event I have not championed dioscrtimination against homosexuals. Don't appeal to emotion, sentiment or your lunch


TV

carefreewannabe:
There is a difference between simple and simplistic and also between an accusation and an observation.

Please try and figure these differences out - holla if you require assistance !

carefreewannabe:
Wrong. It is not a right that is exclusive to gay people. You have the right too.

No one and no group has the right to redefine the societal artefact that is marriage.

carefreewannabe:
And besides there are monogamous, polygamous, polyandrous, endogamous, arranged, spirit, group marriages ....... I could go on and on.

And the marriage is always between a male and a female - or else it's simply not marriage as defined

carefreewannabe:
How is this right exclusive to homo*sexuals?

1. It's not true
2. No other paraphilia is being embedded in our culture

carefreewannabe:
How is this right exclusive to homo*sexuals?

Children have a right to their natural birth parents. Or in the event of loss, the rightg to be raised in as close an environment as possible. Homosexuals forcibly deny children this right - to satisfy their own vanity and desire for legitimacy. Are homosexual rights more important than childrens?

carefreewannabe:
Homophobia at its peak.
Show me one homosexual that demands the right to force others to participate in any homosexual practice.

It's not to engage in the acts, it's to participate in the celebration of the act. It's forced assent and participation. Tyranny

carefreewannabe:
I have never been forced to participate in any sexual act that involved homo*sexuals, have you?

As above

carefreewannabe:
You asked me "In as much as our sexual practice are a part of the human experience, what rational person views the whole of life experience through that practice?" and I wrote homophobic people and then you wrote the line above. Does it makes sense? Anyway.

The point is it's homosexuals who insist that homosexuality colour all our social institutions - to normalis/legitimise it.

Marriage is not a heterosexual institution. It came about as a direct result of the outcome of the male/female union. That outcome has implications for society' flourishing. So we publically celebrate, endorse and support it.

No one asks if you are gay or straight or if you love your spouse. Gay people have the exact same right as everyone else to marry a member of the opposite sex for that reason. Marriage was not an attempt to discriminate against gays or due to animus against them.

They don't want that right, or an equivalent right which captures their unions. They wan tto re-define the rights of others - and children - to feel good about themselves.

carefreewannabe:
It is a lie to say that they are accepted like everyone else, a big lie, and you know it.

It's not acceptance they are seeking, it's endorsement and celebration - by force!

carefreewannabe:
Now explain how they want to "re-configure" culture and society.

I've explained above

carefreewannabe:
How is it unnatural?

The biological and psychological disorder that it is can be researched quite easily. The health implications and pathologies of the practice are well documented.

carefreewannabe:
Yes, in some parts of ancient Greece and ancient Rome, possibly also ancient Egypt, and I am sure even more cultures that I am not aware of now.

In ancient Greece, it was accepted as a phase men went through (funnily enough it was old men and a young mentor - pederasty) marriage was still expected. It was in no way elvated or formalised or considered anything like marriage. Why should it be?

carefreewannabe:
OOOOOoooo, so now a few cultures allowed it? Didn't you say the following before?

Whether it was permitted and how it was considered are two different things - as I explained re Greece above.

carefreewannabe:
Before I teach you again, in some cultures gay marriages were allowed long before Christ was born. Do your research.

Nope. The practice may have been overlooked or allowed. It may even have been ritualised to a degree, but it was never considered as marriage.

carefreewannabe:
Have you got a problem with homo*sexuality or with gay marriages or both?

Homosexuality is morally repugnant and sinful. I do not foreclose on peoples choice to practice it or deny them rights as a result. Just like fornicators and adulterers.

Gay marriage is an oxymoron. The distinctive of marriage is of it being a formalised male/female union. It arose due to the procreative possibilty of same. Non-existent in a gay union.

carefreewannabe:
How are you persecuted for sharing your views?

One cannot preach a negative view of homosexuality or refuse to publicly declare approval for it without sanctions in the climate that prevails in the West. You can lose your job, business or livelihood and be socially ostracised.


TV

carefreewannabe:
It is a real answer. Very straight and simple.

No utterly simplistic - what you are fond of accusing others of !

carefreewannabe:
Which rights do homo*sexuals demand that are exclusive to them?

Not just exclusive to them, but also forced upon others;
- Redefinition of marriage
- Right to teach children that homosexual pracice is normal & healthy
- Right to procure children
- Right to force others to endorse and participate in their perversion

carefreewannabe:
Homophobic people.

Are basically people who do not unquestioningly accede to the demands of homosexuals - Proudly !

carefreewannabe:
They want to enjoy the same acceptance that you and I do despite their se*xual preference which is, as you rightly put it, part of their human experience and not their entire existence.

They are accepted like everyone else - what they want is for us to re-configure society and culture around their sexual preference. No!

carefreewannabe:
Why NOT?

Because it's unnatural and unhealthy - but their choice - not something to be forced onto wider society

carefreewannabe:
Are you sure that homo*sexuality has been considered aberrant all through history? Are you 100% sure?

Yes! It is abberant, by it's very nature. It's an abnormal practice. Was there ever a time it was considered 100% normal everywhere?

Even the few cultures that allowed it, knew to keep it peripheral at best, and did not confuse or conflate it with marriage. Most cultures rightly considered it morally repugnant. It adds no value and is deleterious.

Was everyone up until 20 years ago a bigot/homophobe. How recently did Obama "evolve" on the issue? Was he a bigot before his evolution? And if there are some who haven't or won't evolve to accepting/celebrating it, why are they persecuted.


TV

carefreewannabe:
Despite!

Exactly, no real answer.

Why do a set of people demand a whole set of rights exclusive to them based purely on their sexual preference?

In as much as our sexual practice are a part of the human experience, what rational person views the whole of life experience through that practice?

Why do they demand the social endorsement and legal codification and cultural celebration of that preference?

Why is something that through history and across civilisation been considered aberrant at best, all of a sudden become something that must be embedded into the social fabric?


TV