₦airaland Forum

AgentOfAllah: Are its decisions also predestined?

his decisions are his. Sovereign and true

AgentOfAllah: So what does it do with all that knowledge?

whatever he likes!

hifaif: SENSELESS.

so this is what you say when you go clueless.

OLAADEGBU: You asked for the Nicene Creed, here it is:

i didn't ask you for the nicean creed, i asked you to research on the council of nicea and council of constantinople.

That was where the doctrine of the trinity was proclaimed, that was where u got that creed above.


And nobody asked you to define the word "apostolic" and "catholic", those word were defined by those who wrote the creed. You lying explanation holds no water.

SalC: Welcome and God bless you dear brother, Please if you don't mind I plead with you to take another date, for now I want us to book the dates singly before considering pairing name and Woky already chose 9th

The available dates are...

6th
10th-12th
14th-22nd
24th-26th
29th-30th

Thanks.

i'll take 20th.

Which dates are still open?

striktlymi: You are not missing too much I guess.

God did not create humans and abandon them. He blessed them immediately after creation. This is very much unlike what he did to His other creatures.

God's blessings come in the form of graces. Our first parents were given the necessary grace to act in line with whatever God may command.

The order was for them not to eat from the tree that takes one out of the state of innocence. That state before one attains the age of reasoning.

Before that humongous responsibility was given to them, God has already factored in their weaknesses and likelihood to fall, hence He blessed them before hand.

It is expected that with that blessing, keeping the 'regulation' should be a 'walk in the park'. This is similar to s parent buying a 'walker' and a 'baby chord' for his child.

Those are expected to make the child's learning experience both easier and safe. The fear of falling down a flight of stairs doesn't come in here because the environment is enabling enough for the child.

That is what God's blessing was supposed to do for our first parents. If God had done more than that, then Adam & Eve would have been mere toys or puppets.

Like you mentioned, God refused to micro manage Adam and Eve. This in itself is good because it doesn't get in the way of the learning process.

Every good parent try's hard not to stand in the way of a child and his learning. This was exactly what God did by making himself scarce on some occasions.

The question remains: Why then did he put that 'blasted' tree in there if indeed he loves us?

I have my thoughts on that but it may take us a bit off the present discourse.

In any case, the Genesis story holds so many truths that we often over look due to habit. Ever wondered why we share similar genes with apes? The answer is right there in Genesis.

now this is interesting.

Let me milk you futher

go on...

hifaif: I am not mixing up things. You can't tell me that God planned everything right from the beginning and still want me to believe that man has free will.

Jesus' death was part of God's plans too? Whose script wasJudas following? God's or is own?

it is an infallible prescience.

He knows what will happen, he doesn't need to cause it, but he knows it. He is aware of all possible possibilities and the outcome of them all. In it all, among those possible posibilities and choices, he has patterned his timetable to allow for them all.

In the end, he will still win.

hifaif: I am not mixing up things. You can't tell me that God planned everything right from the beginning and still want me to believe that man has free will.

Jesus' death was part of God's plans too? Whose script wasJudas following? God's or is own?

if is an infallible prescience.

He knows what will happen, he doesn't need to cause it, but he knows it. He is aware of all possible possibilities and the outcome of them all. In it all, among those possible posibilities and choices, he has patterned his timetable to allow for them all.

In the end, he will still win.

hifaif: A God of justice indeed. Killed Bathseba's innocent baby to punish king David, the murderer. Some justice indeed.

Killed thousands of Egyptian firstborns to teach Pharaoh (who was clearly following God's script) a lesson.

Killed thousands of Egyptian soldiers and their harmless horses (as a vegetarian, I find it repulsive)

Utterly destroyed the Amalakites (Including their innocent babies). Even got angry when Saul spared some people.

Killed Achan and his entire family (including the household babies and children and harmless women) simply because Achan kept some booty for himself.

Some God of justice indeed. What sort of justice includes killing babies for the crimes their parents committed?

What is the difference between Jehovah and ISIS? Aren't they both bloodsuckers and cradle robbers?

under what penial code will you judge God. He created all those life, they are all his. What is your headache that he decided to take what is his.

PastorAIO: It didn't say that Jesus death was planned at the beginning. It says that it happened at the beginning.

i remember you brought this passage up in our discussion some time ago.

Now am a bit interested... How exactly do you interprete that passage especially in the light that the said death only occured in time about 2000yrs ago?

Xcapist: I always believed that God is perfect - almighty and all knowing, and He neither lies nor errs. He is perfect and his word is true and final. But I struggled for a long time with some scriptures in the old Testament, especially ones that seem to portray God's ethical failings and the sickening gory details of some of the rites and rituals. The new Testament, though, seem to fix a lot of these initial issues.

But my question is if God is perfect, why do we need two testaments - one to fix fulfill the other?

God is perfect, always.


The covenants are his "pacts" with men, each covenant was to brin man closer to himself.


The rites and rituals of the old testament ARE STILL THERE, THEY DIDN'T DISAPPEAR. The sole different is that they were replaced with a new rite and a new ritual, and everlasting rite, an eternal ritual, that is Christ died on the cross once and for all times.

The rite and rituals of the old were replaced by a more "gory" rite and ritual, the the previous ones animals died, in the new one a human being is killed.


The covenant, i.e our pact with God was made perfect, that doesn't mean God became perfect.

God was always perfect, but in time he brings to perfection our relationship with him.

That is what happened in the new testament, the old pact with God was brought to completion, perfected, made whole and effective for our salvation.

vest: #exhales# This Is Kwaite Intresting

hehehehehe....

Over interesting, i refused to even touch those posts.

moski5: u r a curious fellow I'm watching yu tu

i am watching you too,

you are cherry pickin scriptures.

FOLYKAZE: Guy I heard about this but have not seen one. . . .

what explanation do you have for it?

OLAADEGBU: It is rather the other way round. Check the OP for details:

your op has no "details" and your cartoons aren't proof.

OLAADEGBU: What's the point in conducting Mass in a language you don't understand? This is the more reason why the gospel should be preached in languages understood by the hearers, that way they would be able to worship God in spirit and in truth instead of just following rituals and dogmas.

who says we don't understand what is been said?


Whether in greek (as in the east) or in latin (as in the west), those who use another language in liturgy usually understands what they are saying.

OLAADEGBU: Did Mary believe God for her salvation? The fact that Mary believed God for her salvation and that she also went for purification should tell you that your church tradition that says she was born without sin is faulty.

This is what Jesus said of such practise:

"Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition..." (Mark 7:13).

Apostle Paul said this:

"For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ" (2 Cor 2:17).

You should listen to Apostle Peter who said:

"...We ought to obey God rather than men" (Acts 5:29).

you didn't answer my question.


If mary was saved already before the birth of CHRIST (as you say), then why did she undergo the purification?

striktlymi: I would have enjoyed it had you put up spirited effort. I did most of the work.

hehehe,

i didn't need to be spirited, you seemed just fine.

striktlymi: Hmmm...

I think God did help them.

I think there is more to the Genesis story than meets the eyes.

this should be interesting...

Go on...

How did he help? What am I missing?

shdemidemi: Even when Job was swearing, even Peter that brought up the idea of walking away after Jesus was arrested, even Paul that delivered a man to devil, even the curses in books like Isaiah et al.. Are these all doctrines we should pick up as well?

so mary overshadowed by the holy spirit is equal to Job swearing?

Great piece of music.


I set my house on a Solid foundation, Christ is my Rock.

If we build on him we shall never be shaken.


Thanks for sharing.

JMAN05: You ve never shown any prove that he didnt make a retraction. You just made a statement that you want me to believe by faith. Sorry. case closed till you tender your evidence.

actually dear,
i believe the onus is on you to prove that he made a retraction.


If you say he retracted provide it.

OLAADEGBU: The onus is on you to prove that traditions posted above is inaccurate and that your church introduced the doctrine of the Godhead.

sorry dear, you are the one makin unsubstatiated claims, the onus is on you to prove your unsubstantiated claim beyond reasonable doubt.


As for proof on the doctrine of the Godhead, do well to read up on the council of nicea and constantinople.

Am bullet poof, nothing to lose fire away, fire away....

I hope you are aware that your statement condemns all Christian who lived between 150-1600...to hell.


I wonder if your "God" is the real God.


On the last day, you may have to run away from heaven after you see Catholics there

JMAN05: I gave you a commentary on that, and you want me to believe you by faith when I have a prove?

sorry dear, your commentary got it wrong!

The writtings of augustine are there if you want to read them, he didn't reject anything.

But ofcourse, i guess you prefer to read your incorrect "commentary" on augustine instead of reading what augustine himself wrote.

OLAADEGBU: Here are just a few examples of the continual evolution of pagan practices brought into the Roman Catholic Church, starting in 310 A.D.:

Prayers for the dead were introduced in 310
The lighting of candles in 320
The worship of saints about 375
The mass was adopted in 394
The worship of Mary began to develop about 432
Priests began to assume distinctive robes in 500
The doctrine of purgatory was introduced in 593
Worship in Latin (since repealed) was mandated in 600
Claims to Papal Supremacy took firm foot in 606
Feasts in honor of the Virgin Mary began in 650
The custom of kissing the Pope's foot was introduced in 709
The worship of images and relics was authorized in 788
The invention of holy water was about 850
The canonization of saints was formalized in 993
Feasts for the dead were introduced in 1003
The celibacy of the priesthood was declared in 1074
The dogma of Papal infallibility was announced in 1076
Prayer beads were introduced in 1090
The doctrine that there are seven sacraments was introduced in 1140
The sale of indulgences began in 1190
The wafer was substituted for the loaf in 1200
The dogma of transubstantiation was adopted in 1215
Confession was instituted in 1215
The adoration of the Wafer began in 1220
The Ave Maria was introduced in 1316
The cup was taken from the laity in 1415
Purgatory was officially decreed in 1439
Roman tradition was placed on the same level as Scripture in 1546
The Apocrypha was received into the Canon in 1546
The immaculate conception of the Virgin Mary was announced in 1854
The doctrine of the papal infallibility was proclaimed in 1864
The personal corporeal presence of the Virgin in heaven in 1950

your list is totally inaccurate.

But if i were playing your silly games i would add.


Trinity
Bible

both 4th century.

shdemidemi: Glorifying Mary in our assembly is now equated as sound doctrine!

Ok

the scriptures does say "from henceforth of generations shall call me blessed".

Glorifying mary seems to be a pretty good part of Christianity, it even appears in scripture. It is sound doctrine.

texanomaly: The arrogance I refer to is the fact that you claim your interpretation is the "right" one, while you claim his is "fallible". You go so far as to say he didn't study well, and his interpretation is due to his prejudices.

So basically, you are right and he is wrong. I think this is the "arrogance" you were trying to get at in that thread.

It is the the thing that bugs me most about all religions. The attitude that, "We know the truth, and everyone else has it wrong." Maybe it's not arrogance. Perhaps impudence is a better word.

I didn't make the claim you accuse me of making, someone says he can't be wrong, i simply pointed out the fallibility of human opinion.


I'm sure you didn't see the "i can't be wrong" claim but you gladly think it is "imprudent" to say fallibility is within human power.



I believe that it is possible we have the truth, i certainly believe I do, but i didn't make the "i am right, you are wrong" point because most times, I am happy to listen and discuss.

Syncan: Anonymous fits for now. Do you disagree with it?

it is actually a good quote, almost sounds familiar.

Syncan: "...Why did I not perish at birth,come forth from the womb and expire? Or why was I not buried away like an untimely birth, like babes that have never seen the light? Wherefore did the knees receive me? or why did I suck at the breasts? For then I should have lain down and been tranquil;had I slept, I should then have been at rest...." Job 3:1-3,11-17,20-23.

How many times have we felt like, "Ah, I cannot die now; God knows I am still building up this group, family, company, or... God cannot take me now; I am just entering the university and He knows papa and mama hopes on me, or... death cannot come now that I am preparing for my wedding, etc". In recent times, how many deaths around you could you say the people were ready for it, were they not people with unfinished business, unrealized dreams, unaccomplished visions? hmm...but they died all the same, and life goes on without them.

Death. The surest of all things, yet the least talked about. Why am I afraid of death, eh, why? This life where I hussle for pomo; when some others are feeding their dogs with turkey, I dreamed of studying nuclear physics; yet all i could get was industrial welding, my childhood friend is now a cardinal; yet I am still here in a local parish as a priest, From morning till night, through the year, I barely have time to say hi to my brethren in the catholic thread due to work, yet some others just have holidaying for a vocation. "How can a life be loved that is filled with so much bitterness, that is subject to so many calamities and miseries? How can it be called life when it gives birth to so many deadly and disastrous things"...Thomas a'kempis.

Why am I afraid of death? Uncertainty. What am I not certain of? That there is no heaven? No. I believe all that Jesus said. What am I not certain of then? That I will make heaven. Aha, so what am I doing about it, wishing the day never comes? Isn't that like drowning my problems in alcohol? The scripture assures us thus: “Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord henceforth.Yeah, says the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours, for their deeds follow them’” (Rev 14:13). Isn't this what I really need, after this vale of tears...a well deserved rest. Shouldn't I be ready to "die in the lord" at all times? What is it that will prevent me from dying in the lord now? Is it worth the sacrifice of my eternal rest? "Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or unclothedness, or peril, or sword?" says St. Paul. Again I say who? A fiance/fiancee, a benefactor, a ward/child, a parent, a boy/girlfriend, are these worth the sacrifice of my eternal rest, who would go on living if i die now.

"The death of the just man is good because it brings him peace: it is better still for the new joy it gives to him, and best of all because the peace and joy that death brings are never-ending"...... St. Bernard

And I live in hope of so high a form of life, that I die because I do not die”.... St. Teresa of Avila

What will be my lot, If death comes today?

Good morning brethren, a splendid day ahead to all

1000 like.

Syncan: You are right sis, especially to anyone who the words below speaks to:

"...The road from light into darkness begins slowly. It is like a twilight. The person still believes, still practices their faith, but in certain areas of life they begin to leave God’s law behind. Attractions grow that were never tolerated before. Religious practices become secondary and routine. The flower is cut off from its deep roots of faith and no longer draws nourishment from the soil.


The person can no longer fight the culture and soon becomes one with it. The joys found in religious practices fade and the heart is consumed with worldly goals. The soul becomes powerless in the face of temptations and more and more succumbs to a lifestyle that it would previously have rejected.

The soul has not yet fallen into darkness but it skirts the edges, stumbles often, rises slowly and is greatly weakened while Satan waits for his moment, ready to claim a soul that had lived in the light...".

who did you just quote?