₦airaland Forum

striktlymi: 'Left them to their fate without coming to their rescue'.

Allowing a child to grow-up involves allowing the child fall in the process of learning how to walk; but in a situation where the child is in danger of fallen down a flight of stairs, it would have been inappropriate to leave the child to him or herself.

Don't you think God should have come to the aid of our first parents at that critical hour of need?

not really,

man had to fall, for him to learn to walk. Man must chose what master he wants. He knew about the fall and he had a solution in hand.

Their fate was salvation through Jesus Christ. Though now it will be all different.

JMAN05: He offered a retraction:


“Saint Augustine,” at one time believed that Peter was the rock-mass but later changed his view. Lange’s Commentary on the Holy Scriptures (Mt 16:18, ftn, p. 296) quotes Augustine as saying: “The rock is not so named from Peter, but Peter from the rock (non enim a Petro petra, sed Petrus a petra), even as Christ is not so called after the Christian, but the Christian after Christ. For the reason why the Lord says, ‘On this rock I will build my church,’ is that Peter had said: ‘Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.’ On this rock, which thou hast confessed, says he, I will build my church. For Christ was the rock (petra enim erat Christus), upon which also Peter himself was built; for other foundation can no man lay, than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.”—Translated and edited by P. Schaff, 1976.

sorry dear, someone lied to you, augustine didn't retract his views....

You may study this one futher.

keypad1: if you can go to the deep northern community and know things about other tribes or religion and their stance on it. If you can do that and get feedbacks from them. Weigh it then return back to me to drop down my statement above. And i will do it.

Unless u r a core northern trying to play that game of deceit, which will never work here.

sorry dear,

i don't fall into your sterotype.

You need to stop your tribalism and religious fanatism, us vs them mentality will only put Nigeria in more trouble.

If leaders mess up, they should be called to order irrespective of their tribes or religion, whether or not they are southerner or Christian.

I am watching you because it seems you delibrately cherrypick bible passages

If i had an explanation for every story i hear from africa, i would be the wisest man alive.


Any way, since macof and folykaze are here, i have a question.

There are stories my mum told me about, dead people (usually those who died by accident) who go and live in some other places at times even fathering children.

What i your takes on that?

For those following the news channels, it seems card okogie just took a swipe at pres. Jonathan.

This brings me to my question.


What do you think is the churches role in the political process? Would you say the dear card exceeded his authority?

Hidentity: Good evening friends. This is my first time here... So, I guess I am a fresher.

hey dear,

you're welcome, feel free to drop in here anytime to drop questions, prayer, encouragement, or just join in the discussion.

This is your home, welcome.


Let me wait for the welcoming squad

PastorAIO: At noon Benedictus began to taunt jnrbayano. "Shout louder!" he said. "Surely he is pastorOlu! Perhaps he is deep in thought, or busy, or traveling. Maybe he is sleeping and must be awakened."
- 1Kings 18:27

certainly not my intention.

I just want the discussion to continue.

OLAADEGBU: Only Jesus had a miraculous conception and a virgin birth. This cannot be said about Mary who had to had to go for purification after the birth of Jesus. (Luke 2:22).

and yet according to you mary was saved before the birth of Christ.


If mary was already saved before the death of Christ as you claim, why does she undergo the purification?

OLAADEGBU: Why did they speak Greek in the first place?

greek was an alternate language in the roman empire. Most of those who didn't speak latin spoke greek.

Those who preach the gospel to rome, spoke greek, peter and paul... The next bishop was linus another who spoke greek... As such greek stuck as a liturgical language in the roman church.

Up till today you will still hear greek in every mass said in latin, the prayer that is used to ask for forgiveness of sins in a latin mass, i.e the "kyrie elesion", is still in greek.

rapins: More like the words used during Ordination of Catholic Priests. I just love the awesomeness that of those words.

awesome words, they also are a summary of what the catholic priesthood is.

striktlymi: Lol!

You answered, No!! with your heart but, Yes! with your head.

hehehe, how can you even assume to know what goes on in my head and my heart?


I believe we all read the story...the senario was set and God went up (where ever that is), to eat his popcorn and watch man fail at the simpliest of tests, he didn't intervene. He left man to use that which he had.

When i was young i thought liberty was the ability to do whatever i wanted, as i grew older i learnt that liberty is the gift God gave us which enables us to act according to reason, when we refuse to act according to true reason we are not using our liberty we are abusing it.

God wanted man to be at liberty, if he is to experience it then he should first excercise it. God left man what he already had. I wouldn't consider that to be abandonment. I would call that a chance to growth.



Besides this will be easier if the word "abandon" was defined.

striktlymi: Yes, you are right. I am not a Relativist in the sense that the Church is against.

Your question is a bit difficult to answer directly because it seems more like a 'trick question'. A Muslim would argue that their source of truth is Allah who I accept to be the God I worship.

If indeed that is their source of truth, then my answer to your question would be in the affirmative. However, if your question had been on whether I accept all that they hold currently as truth revealed by Allah, then I would disagree.

I hold that God reveals his truth through his Church via the Holy Father whenever he teaches in his capacity as the heir to the Holy see of Peter and when such matters bother on Faith and Morals.

here we reach an understanding.


I'm sure you enjoyed stressing me.

keypad1: if buhari or atiku or kwankwaso wins the presidential election next year then the islamization of nigeria will come immediately.

Muslims cleric doesnt talk down their fellow leaders like this. They have agenda. But christians cleric, na to open mouth wide and talk rubbish.

When another sects of islamists emerge, then our eyes will be clearer.

I no dey hide my own. It was buhari that said muslims should vote muslims and christians should vote christians.

Christians be warn.

this is the us vs them mentality that ensures Nigeria will never move forward.

Can you drop your christian-muslim, northerner-southerner sterotype long enough to consider thing objectively?

OLAADEGBU: Why did it stop speaking Greek?

Read up on the Great Schism below:

https://www.nairaland.com/1902548/what-great-schism

it stopped speaking greek because greek wasn't the language of the people.


Your link is off point.

The church stopped speaking liturgical greek in the 3rd century, the schism happened in the 11th century. The schism isn't the reason why greek was stopped.

OLAADEGBU: Mary was a sinner who needed a Saviour. Simples.

and according to you, she was saved before the birth and death of Jesus.

jnrbayano: Is PastorOlu on sabatical?

i really don't know

Also read up on Blessed Bernhard Lichtenberg.

striktlymi: Did God abandon Adam and Eve at the Garden of Eden?


Think critically and review the story in Genesis before answering.



cc: ubenedictus, italo, syncan.

i had the question in mind, it seems you beat me to it.


My response is no.

He stood and watch man, watch him fail, gave him his punishment and a promise.

striktlymi: That is where it becomes very problematic. For Catholics truth is defined by whatever God chooses to reveal via his Church. For the protestant it may be what they believe God to have revealed through the instrumentality of Sacred scriptures.

Muslims may choose to see truth in the light of what they believe God to have revealed through the Quran and the Hadith. Pagans still, may choose a whole set of framework as the objective basis for truth. The Atheist and other irreligious folks may want to see truth only in terms of whatever can be experienced and proven scientifically.

For me as an individual I choose to subject myself to whatever God chooses to reveal through his Church, even though it is most times difficult to swallow. Thus, my thoughts on the matter would be that the objective base for which truth should be defined would be God but this cannot be so until everything is revealed and we all see God as he truly is on the last day.

But before then my guy, I think the objective base of truth is relative and very subjective. That's my thought for now. If you have any super duper logic or argument to sway me off that line of thought, I would very much want to read it.

i don't even think you are a real relativist.

You simply hold that each man sees things differently....i don't think i really need to prepare a sermon.
I have a question though.

Do you think, the muslims source of truth is the right one?

[quote author=Juvante][/quote]read up on alfred delph, he was a german priest, killed by the hitler regim.


While you are at it read up on the dachau camp, at least over 1000 polish priests were imprisioned there, over 400 germaan priests were imprisioned ther and over 90 of those german priest died there. That is just two nationalities in one camp alone.

Juvante: Who is the liar here? Kolbe was not killed because he was a Priest. He made a deal with the Nazis to die in place of someone else! True or false? stop spreading lies.

oh, can you tell us why he was arrested in the first place.

What was he doing in concentration camp? Playing there?

Juvante: @ Ubenedictus, a treaty is a collection of agreements. The Lateran Treaty of 1929 has a section called the Concordat. It contains deals between Mussolini and the Church. The Church was made a State religion,and Fascism was given a free hand to operate! I dare you to post the contents of the Concordat in the treaty,if there is a single mention of land!
It is on record that no Nazi was excommunicated by the Church.
I am really sorry for making you to be on Wikipaedia,burning your precious megabytes. When you are free to visit Europe, pm me and I will direct you to the nearest Holocaust Centre for more information.

the part of the lateran treaty called the concordat, reaffirmed that catholicism is the official religion in italy.... Among other things the concordat made sure rome was politically nuetral (a position the vatican maintains to this day).

But certainly dear "facism was given a free hand to operate" is an exageration.

The pope had already been dispossessed of the papal states, all of italy was already under facism...whether or not the treaty was sign facism was the form of government in italy and there was nothing the vatican could do about that.



Lastly i noticed the stench of pride and a certain air of intellectual superiority about this post.

You do not know me, you do not know where i have been, nor do you know where i am, so stop making silly supremacist comments.

Juvante: @ ubenedictus, I dare you to name a single Catholic priest that was killed by the Nazis in Germany! Only two "stubborn" bishops were arrested and reinstated due to public protest!
I told you to search for transcripts of the Nuremberg trials of the Nazi criminals and read first hand of what happened.
Go and read first hand account by Pope John Paul of his experience in Poland. You have conveniently forgotten the ruckus that was raised about Pope Benedict's role in the war,and his subsequent explanation!
I dare you to paste the exact apology by Pope John Paul for all to read,and then,all can judge if you are more catholic than the Pope!

oh please!

It seems you certainly having been reading, at least 1,200 priest died and were used for experiments in the very first camp hitler made.... Do you even know the story of st. Maximilan kolbe?

Juvante: @ Ubenedictus, since you believe the hands of the Church is blood free, just Google the role of catholic priests in the rise of anti-semitism starting from Russia,France to Germany!
Excommunication was an option that was never followed,even when it was public knowledge that Hitler was a firm believer of Aryan Christianity and Volkism.
Instead of relying on Wikipaedia,
Visit Europe and read in real libraries,not the glorified "bookshops" in Nigeria!

this again shows your lack of historical knowledge, do you remember what happened the last time the pope excommunicated a head of state?

Think...think..., it backfired on the church and got many catholics killed,

king henry....

I believe also elizabeth 1...

Forgetten the last one....

But each time the excommunication had an adverse effect over 3000 priest were arrested by hitler, an excommunication will be a good reason for retailation.

Do you know what happened after the bishops of poland with the blessing of the pope went against hitler? You can read it up.


Are you even aware that there were many jews begging the pope not to say anything inflamatory as it was more likely to get them killed than improve their situation,...

Juvante: @ ubenedictus, Martin Luther was excommunicated by Pope on what grounds? He challenged the Pope to a debate and pasted 99 questions on his Church gate. The Pope ordered the sale of indulgence, forgiveness of sin by payment of money! I dare you to answer true or false? Is it different from Pastors who deceive their members to "sow seeds"?

this again shows your ignorance.

Indulgence isn't equal to forgiveness of sins. Indulgences are gotten after sins have been forgiven.

The pope never ordered the sale of indulgence, this is what i call historical amaturism. Go get you facts right.

Martin luther didn't challenge the pope to a debate, the 99 thesis was to be discussed in his own school, it was the practice then to paste issues for debate before the debate.

Luther was excommunicated for heresy... Very many of them which i do not care to recount.

macof: Ten different ways maybe but they all would be describing the same thing won't they?

it will be the same experience, they won't see it exactly the same way.

striktlymi: I think, in that regard, the objectivity of truth largely depends on what we agree to be the reference point. It would be difficult to say how objective truth is without defining the basis on which whatever we hold as true is established.

I can say, it is true that a man commits murder when he kills another wrongfully. If we do not define what we consider as 'wrongful killing' then I think it may be a bit cumbersome to say what is true in this case.

If we look at a set of Integers 'Z' such that 'x' is a member of Z where Z contains the values -3,-2,-1,0,1,2,3 on the real number line. Would it be true to conclude that 'x' = 1 is contained in that set?

Of course it would be true because the parameters are well defined. If on the other hand, I did not define the parameters and just gave a closed set of (1,2) and asked the same question; I am almost sure that everyone may argue that 'x' = 1 is contained in the set.

If I go on to define my set as (4-3,2) that may influence the various answers and opinions. Note that (4-3,2) is not necessarily the same as (1,2).

The point I am trying to make here is that truth may not be objective if it is not properly defined.

i'll agree with you that the truth should be defined if it is to be considered objective...most time it should obey a set of rules.


If we can agree that truth can be objective but needs to be defined, I think the question is :

who defines what is objectively true?
What do u think?

I don't think you belong to any congregation that is as rigid as some of the mendicant orders. I presume you would be somewhere in between. A congregation that allows some degree of flexibility. Somewhere in between MSP or SPS and the Vocationist. Not strictly missionary and not 'too religious'.

then maybe you don't know me that well.

IF (and that is a very big if) i were a religious, i wouldn't want something in the middle, i'll go for a congregation with a dynamic contemplative life, practical ascetism, powerful pastorial work(evangelisation), culture of heavy theological thought and enviable charity....

I will be interested in doing everything, doing everything to its allowed extreme....

striktlymi: What would you say truth is in relation to human interactions? I am not asking with respect to God's nature.

i could easily say that "truth" in human interaction is what is true, but that statement is counter productive.

Each individual sees truth according to his or her lenses...but i believe that even in those cases there still remains an objective truth. What do u think?

I am now 98% sure that you are a Religious.

Probably not a Jesuit or some other missionary congregation.

You don't sound Diocesan too.

the jesuits will cherish a long philosophical argument, the missionaries will be "missionary" and the older congregation with their own intellectual and theological strians will be more rigid.

So you are puting me in the rigid category?

What if you are wrong on all counts?

SalC: Lol Uben looking for trouble since 1672

Yes I thank God too.

Hmm don't offer me that baba blue abi na baba green, just answer the question.

Are you a religious?

Don't let me start dishing out informations and don't even try to cut corners

heheehee.

Those informations you have been keeping since 1900

SalC: Hmm this is becoming interesting

Babestell accused Ubenedictus of stealing the position that supposedly belonged to her

Ubenedictus accused babestell of hacking Nairaland just to wipe away his deserved victory

SalC spreads mat to observe the unfolding of events

salc taking note since 8 BC...

I didn't accuse yet... I just have a feeling....

striktlymi: Ubenedictus

Yesterday was a real life case of what I believe Relativism should be about. People see things from very different and unique perspective due to their socio-cultural exposure; which also affects their unique view of what is true and real.

I have seen a lot of arguments put forth by some 'Christian scholars' here on nairaland from both Catholics and protestants, postulating that absolute truth exists and is a given. From their viewpoint absolute truth is dependent on what God says it is.

The bold is where the argument of absolute truth falls apart in my opinion. Truth now becomes relative to God.

...i don't think the exact thing to say is truth is relative to God. God by his very nature is truth. Our different perspectives not withstanding, there is still absolute truth.

If an absolute truth doesn't exist then i can calmly say nothing is true.

An aside:

I figured you are a Religious. I am 95% certain. Your thought process, the books you are interested in and your area of research proves it for me.

my thought process

Are you sure you've figured out that one, my thoughts are wonderfully complicated.


Besides, i may very well just be a young man who loves reading old boring books.