₦airaland Forum

Theknowledge:
There is this pride associated with the Igbo tribe which is not seen in other tribes- It takes more to be a Igbo man than to be from other tribes.

You can't afford to live the life of mediocre being Igbo and it comes with a lot of financial pressure- it is this status symbol that makes the lazy ones carry hard drugs to Asia and make the hard working ones being legitimately successful men.

I'm not saying that other tribes are not unique in their own ways.

this is how people like you get others to dislike Igbos

MaxInDHouse:
The two roads that one leads to life with just a lane against another that has many lanes is about individuals shey? Matt 7:13-14

The tree producing FRUIT that could be RECOGNIZED globally is about an individual shey? Matt 7:16-18

Those saying they worked for Jesus but he denied them are individuals shey? Matthew 7:21-23

Ọmọ stoo deceiving yourself!

As I told you the entire chapter are admonitions to people

15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them.

these are the few first verses of that chapter, he

7 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

6 “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

they are admonitions to people! and nothing there mentions religious organisations please stop doing violence to scripture just to claim so dominance for your group

The cramped road where you can't switch lanes means the one and only organization of Jesus Christ where you must submit to what is being taught so once you leave you're on the broad road (Christendom churches claiming denominations) where every lane is OK to deceitful people!


The one and only tree that it's FRUIT could be RECOGNIZED globally means Jesus' group unlike Christendom churches where different sects are claiming Christians. The deception is that you people are thinking that nice people in false religions will gain what God promised true Christians but that's a lie no matter how nice you're false religion will disqualified you. John 3:1-8
But no matter how bad you may be, with pure worship you still have a hope! Luke 23:41-43

If you're practicing FALSE RELIGION demons will perform signs through you as if you're with Jesus but you yourself will know that you're not submissive to any form of restraint binding on you with fellow believers. So Jesus will deny you because to him you are LAWLESS! Matthew 7:21-23

gaelllic:
Keep calling me half-baked.
You're going to end up fully baked in Hell if you continue in heresy.

I'll take out the rest of your trash after I've attended to other matters.

i see that when you lose and argument you go for threats instead.

I am happy that you are not God and you will not be my judge on the day of judgement. Christ is my judge. i pray you find the time to remove the boulder in you eyes maybe then you will be able to see the speck you think is in your brother's eyes.

I have countered every argument you have presented document for document and I have happily shown how the things you condemn have there roots in catholic teaching that were there even before Vatican II.

FIRST VATICAN COUNCIL

For no one can be in doubt, indeed it was known in every age that the holy and most blessed Peter, prince and head of the apostles, the pillar of faith and the foundation of the catholic church, received the keys of the kingdom from our lord Jesus Christ, the saviour and redeemer of the human race, and that to this day and for ever he lives and presides and exercises judgment in his successors the bishops of the holy Roman see, which he founded and consecrated with his blood [46] .
Therefore whoever succeeds to the chair of Peter obtains by the institution of Christ himself, the primacy of Peter over the whole church. So what the truth has ordained stands firm, and blessed Peter perseveres in the rock-like strength he was granted, and does not abandon that guidance of the church which he once received [47] .
For this reason it has always been necessary for every church–that is to say the faithful throughout the world–to be in agreement with the Roman church because of its more effective leadership. In consequence of being joined, as members to head, with that see, from which the rights of sacred communion flow to all, they will grow together into the structure of a single body [48] .
Therefore,
if anyone says that
it is not by the institution of Christ the lord himself (that is to say, by divine law) that blessed Peter should have perpetual successors in the primacy over the whole church; or that
the Roman pontiff is not the successor of blessed Peter in this primacy:
let him be anathema.




I will pray for you who have separated yourself from the Roman pontiff

gaelllic:
This would be laughable if it didn't represent pertinacious and gravely sinful bad will.



I have made no reference to 'universal law'.
I have made reference to dogma.

No soul may overturn dogma

You know this of course, and thus you desperately had to produce the following concoction:



The ruling on prayers with non-Catholics is not a discipline.

It is a dogma.

Stop lying.

By your standard of 'Catholicism', one could simply attend Friday mosque and offer prayers to Allah without committing mortal sin?

What a heretic.

it is clear you don't know the difference between a discipline and a dogma. which is a shame, because I would assume that someone who has the effrontery to accuse popes of heresy will know the basics of the Catholic faith

See who talks about half-baked knowledge.

(i.) That publication is not a dogma. It is a document from the Holy Office and therefore fallible.

That publication is not dogma but is immediately contradicted what you claimed was a dogma. That should tell you, if you had any knowledge of how the church works that it was a discipline which was cancelling another discipline.

in case you can't read this was before Vatican II, so you can't blame Vatican ii for this. A discipline is subject to change and the discipline on ecumenical gatherings set by pius xi was modify in thee reign of pius xii. Anyone who is intelligent in Catholic matters will know that this is a feature of disciplines, they can be modified and changed just as this one was. It was not a dogma

(ii.) The simple issuance by the Curia of a document does not confer the infallibility of the reigning Pope upon it. For that to happen the Pope in question would have to approve it in forma specifica (I hope you know what that means) and not just generally. This also applied to theological textbooks, Canon Law compilations etc

if you are talking about infallibility then even the earlier encyclicals you have been quoting to support your opinions are not infallible documents. So if you are going to claim something is dogma then you have to provide a papal ex cathedra declaration or the pronouncement of an ecumenical council

(iii.) All this notwithstanding, the very document you cite says:

“The Catholic Church, although she does not take part in congresses and other conventions called ‘ecumenical'..."

(iv.) All this notwithstanding, the very document you cite says:

"...if these meetings afford the desired opportunity to spread among non-Catholics the knowledge of Catholic doctrine..."

Obviously, it's talking about gatherings where non-Catholics may be proselytized and not joint prayer meetings.
So your attempt to defend JPII, Benedict and co. falls flat.

On the contrary, it shows that the discipline by Pius XI was modified by Pius XII proving clearly that it was a discipline and that discipline was further modified by Vatican II council.

v. The very document you cite puts the word 'union' in quote marks. As well as the word 'ecumenical' ('oecumenica'). Since the writer(s) did not intend to show quotations or dialogue or word-as-a-word identification, those quotation marks were obviously being used as scare quotes.

"Scare quotes are a pair of quotation marks put around a word or phrase to indicate that a writer believes a term is inappropriate..."
- www.thesaurus.com

I wouldn't have had to explain that if you're as smart as you think you are.



It is a defined dogma of the Roman Catholic Church that non-Catholics are not Christian.

"Therefore, the Holy Catholic Church condemns, reproves, anathematizes and declares to be outside the Body of Christ, which is the Church, whoever holds opposing or contrary views"
- Pope Eugene IV
Cantate Domino, 1441

Again you are shifting quotes around. that is not the full story.

(Rom. 2:13-16):

For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

Pius IX. Singulari Quidem. AD 1856.

‘This hope of salvation is placed in the Catholic Church which, in preserving the true worship, is the solid home of this faith and the temple of God. Outside of the Church, nobody can hope for life or salvation unless he is excused through ignorance beyond his control.'

Quanto Conficiamur Moerore Pope BI. Pius IX - 186

There are, of course, those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace. Because God knows, searches and clearly understands the minds, hearts, thoughts, and nature of all, his supreme kindness and clemency do not permit anyone at all who is not guilty of deliberate sin to suffer eternal punishments.


That is called the doctrine of Invincible ignorance and it works together with the doctrine of "outside the church there is no salvation" as stated by pope Eugene. The catholic church does not anathematize the invincibly ignorant even if he/she is a non-catholic holding contrary views to the church.

Don't you get it?
(i.) Non-Catholics are not brothers to Catholics in any religious context.
(ii.) There are no 'distinctive features' in faith within the Body of Christ.
(iii.) Prayer in common with heretics, pagans or schismatics is never allowed.
(iv.) There is no such thing as the 'pursuit of Christian unity'. All Christians are already united in the Catholic Church.

Of course you don't get it.
Because you don't have the Faith.
You're just pretending to be a Catholic.

i) Again you are wrong, unless you are God who is able to judge the heart and know for a fact who is or isnt invincibly ignorant then you can't make absolute statements. Pius XII is clear that non-catholics who are invincible ignorant receive divine light and grace. they may not share
all the sacraments or the fullness of the catholic faith, but they possess divine grace, that is how they are our brothers. by a sharing the the grace of God.

ii) Each of the ecclesia communities have its own distinctive features. even within the catholic church eastern catholicism has distinctive features from western catholicism, and even in western catholicism monasticism has distinctive features from the lay state. your comments is factually incorrect.
iii) the absoluteness of your statements always betray you. active communion in sacris is prohibited but that doesn't imply that every prayer with non-catholics is thereby prohibited.

yet the recitation in common of the Lord's Prayer or of some prayer approved by the Catholic Church, is not forbidden for opening or closing the said meetings. De Motione ‘Oecumenica

iv) According to papal documents you are wrong again, you were the one who first quoted the discipline noted by pope pius xi but it seems you didn't read his work the is such a thing as the promotion of union of christian

for the union of Christians can only be promoted by promoting the return to the one true Church of Christ of those who are separated from it, for in the past they have unhappily left it.
MORTALIUM ANIMO ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS XI

Hoping that the unity (not the population) of the Church continues to increase?
Therefore you hold that Christ's Church is not fully united.
How can you even say the Athanasian Creed then?
How then do you hold to the following dogmatic pronouncement?:

the same way i hold that the church is holy even though I know that her members sin. her holiness is found in Christ and his sacraments and graces. So too the church is one even though she is divided by schisms. Her oneness is found in Christ who is able to unite men to himself and his grace, even those whose invincible ignorance prevent them from fully accepting the catholic church.

"...Furthermore, the eminence of the Church arises from its unity, as the principle of its constitution - a unity surpassing all else, and having nothing like unto it or equal to it" (S. Clemens Alexandrinus,..."
- Pope Leo XIII
Satis Cognitum, 1896

Perhaps you will argue that Pope Leo's encyclical merely "put forth a discipline", and Vatican II repealed it...

Accept the truth:

Vatican II was not a Catholic Council.
It broke with 20 centuries of infallible Catholic doctrine and went in new direction.
It was the foundation ceremony of your Antichrist religion.

i think people like you fail to understand the vatican ii council that is why you would state that it isn't a catholic council.
Vatican ii was very conscious to keep every catholic dogma intact. On the issue of praying with no-Catholics it kept the prohibition on active communio in sacris like all other popes and councils. But it also kept passive prayer in common with non-Catholics which was already allowed before vatican ii by pope pius xii and extended that part. but everything that has to do with dogma and divine law is well preserved in Vatican ii which is why i will laugh at anyone who claims that Vatican ii is not a catholic council.

"Canon law" promulgated by Antipopes?
Don't tempt me to laughter.

YOu do not have authority to judge a pope. the first see is judged by no one.

What manner of blathering is this?

"...on the core of justification..."
"...in the core Luther..."

I will repeat Francis' words here (to prevent you from lying about them):

"And today Lutherans and Catholics, Protestants, all of us agree on the doctrine of justification. On this point, which is very important, he did not err."

Francis' said Luther did not err on the doctrine of justification.
He did not restrict his approval to the role of Faith.
By falsely pretending he did you're displaying again your habit of dishonest argumentation.

But guess what?
You are caught out in your lie because even if Francis restricted his agreement to the role of faith, its still heresy:

"According to Lutheran understanding, God justifies sinners in faith alone (sola fide)."

- Joint Declaration with the Lutherans on Justification, Section 26. 1999.

"You see that by works a man is justified, and not by faith alone (Jas 2:24)"

- Pope Paul III
Council of Trent, Session 6, Chapter 10

See?

maybe you can try quoting the full paragraph at least

25.We confess together that sinners are justified by faith in the saving action of God in Christ. By the action of the Holy Spirit in baptism, they are granted the gift of salvation, which lays the basis for the whole Christian life. They place their trust in God's gracious promise by justifying faith, which includes hope in God and love for him. Such a faith is active in love and thus the Christian cannot and should not remain without works. But whatever in the justified precedes or follows the free gift of faith is neither the basis of justification nor merits it.

26.According to Lutheran understanding, God justifies sinners in faith alone (sola fide). In faith they place their trust wholly in their Creator and Redeemer and thus live in communion with him. God himself effects faith as he brings forth such trust by his creative word. Because God's act is a new creation, it affects all dimensions of the person and leads to a life in hope and love. In the doctrine of "justification by faith alone," a distinction but not a separation is made between justification itself and the renewal of one's way of life that necessarily follows from justification and without which faith does not exist. Thereby the basis is indicated from which the renewal of life proceeds, for it comes forth from the love of God imparted to the person in justification. Justification and renewal are joined in Christ, who is present in faith.

27.The Catholic understanding also sees faith as fundamental in justification. For without faith, no justification can take place. Persons are justified through baptism as hearers of the word and believers in it. The justification of sinners is forgiveness of sins and being made righteous by justifying grace, which makes us children of God. In justification the righteous receive from Christ faith, hope, and love and are thereby taken into communion with him.[14] This new personal relation to God is grounded totally on God's graciousness and remains constantly dependent on the salvific and creative working of this gracious God, who remains true to himself, so that one can rely upon him. Thus justifying grace never becomes a human possession to which one could appeal over against God. While Catholic teaching emphasizes the renewal of life by justifying grace, this renewal in faith, hope, and love is always dependent on God's unfathomable grace and contributes nothing to justification about which one could boast before God (Rom 3:27)

But as I said, his approval wasn't limited to the role of faith, so let's check out some other heresies in the 'JDLJ':

"According to Lutheran teaching, human beings are incapable of cooperating in their salvation, because as sinners they actively oppose God and his saving action."
- JDLJ, Section 21,1999.

"If anyone shall say that man's free will moved and aroused by God does not cooperate by assenting to God Who rouses and calls...let him be anathema"
- Pope Paul III
Council of Trent, Session 6, Can 4

.When Catholics say that persons "cooperate" in preparing for and accepting justification by consenting to God's justifying action, they see such personal consent as itself an effect of grace, not as an action arising from innate human abilities.

21.According to Lutheran teaching, human beings are incapable of cooperating in their salvation, because as sinners they actively oppose God and his saving action. Lutherans do not deny that a person can reject the working of grace. When they emphasize that a person can only receive (mere passive) justification, they mean thereby to exclude any possibility of contributing to one's own justification, but do not deny that believers are fully involved personally in their faith, which is effected by God's Word.

Or how about:

"They (Lutherans) intend rather to express that justification remains free from human cooperation and is not dependent on the life-renewing effects of grace in human beings."
- JDLJ, Section 23

"If anyone shall say that man can be justified before God by his own works which are done either by his own natural powers, or by the teaching of the law, without Divine grace through Christ Jesus; let him be anathema"
- Pope Paul III
Council of Trent, Session 6, Can 1

lol, you think any kind of work, whether under grace or not strictly merits justification?



When Lutherans emphasize that the righteousness of Christ is our righteousness, their intention is above all to insist that the sinner is granted righteousness before God in Christ through the declaration of forgiveness and that only in union with Christ is one's life renewed. When they stress that God's grace is forgiving love ("the favor of God"[12]), they do not thereby deny the renewal of the Christian's life. They intend rather to express that justification remains free from human cooperation and is not dependent on the life-renewing effects of grace in human beings.

24.When Catholics emphasize the renewal of the interior person through the reception of grace imparted as a gift to the believer,[13] they wish to insist that God's forgiving grace always brings with it a gift of new life, which in the Holy Spirit becomes effective in active love. They do not thereby deny that God's gift of grace in justification remains independent of human cooperation. -JDLJ


and the gratuitousness of justification is also held by the council of Trent. Nothing the precede justification, whether it is works done in grace or not, nothing that precede justification can merit the grace of justification, because justification is totally grace.

CHAPTER VIII:
HOW THE GRATUITOUS JUSTIFICATION OF THE SINNER BY FAITH IS TO BE UNDERSTOOD
But when the Apostle says that man is justified by faith and freely,[44] these words are to be understood in that sense in which the uninterrupted unanimity of the Catholic Church has held and expressed them, namely, that we are therefore said to be justified by faith, because faith is the beginning of human salvation, the foundation and root of all justification, without which it is impossible to please God and to come to the fellowship of His sons; and we are therefore said to be justified gratuitously, because none of those things that precede justification, whether faith or works, merit the grace of justification. For, if by grace, it is not now by works, otherwise, as the Apostle says, grace is no more grace.- Council of Trent.

See?

You're a liar.
You're lying.
You're simply lying.
Any honest person can see it.
And why? Why?
Why are you lying?

How does a person come to this?

May God preserve all honest men from such a fate.

here again you have shown you lack of understanding of basic text. this is why I always repeat that half knowledge is the most dangerous

phemmyfour:
They will derobe her... she's not wearing that white gown again

nobody is derobing her.

Osanoghodua1:
Some of them are school teachers, it's part of their social activities to the kids but She could have look for a Christian song since she's a custodian of church doctrine.

why would she need to choose a christian song? which law prohibit her from dancing to worldly music?

PappyScuti:
As a christened fellow It's not allowed to dance or vibe to any worldly music... Her vibing to Buga should be penalized

not for catholics. Maybe it is so for protestants, but dancing to worldly music is not a sin, certainly not for a catholic

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus is not talking about individuals here Sir rather he's talking about different religions.

Jesus explained that a tree symbolises religion initiated by someone just as he himself was a tree planted by his father {John 15:1-2} and his disciples are the branches {John 15:6} so each religion is the initiative of a certain spirit (God) and those taking the lead in each religion are the branches of the tree.

The FRUIT of each tree is the result of their teachings in the gathering of the worshipers practicing what is being taught in each religion.

So Jesus' question here means whenever you discover an organization or group of people practicing what everyone knows is good then you don't need to doubt that those taking the lead in such a religion are God's spokesmen!

the entire context on Matthew 7 refers to individual not just different religions.... that entire chapter is admonition to people not just religions. As much as you may like to apply it to groups and organisations, please to obsure the contextual meaning

It is a pity you are a sedesvacantist

gaelllic:
Don't be obtuse.
A Catholic is one who professes the true Faith.
By acknowledging Francis as Pope, the one who does so is declaration by action that he has the true Faith.
That's heresy.

If this is true please show me where those in communion with pope Honorius were excommunicated. In fact show me where Honorius who made heretical statements when alive was deprived of his see while he was alive. when you do that you would have successfully proven that whoever is in communion with a heretic pope ipso facto is a heretic.


in fact to even attempt to condemn a living pope of heresy is illicit according to pope Hadrian, the only person who can call Johnpaul a heretic is Benedict xvi, the only person that can call Benedict a heretic is Francis and so on. No catholic and no council according to pope Hadrian is allowed to convict a pope of heresy.


“Although we have read of the Roman pontiff having passed judgement on the bishops of all the churches, we have not read of anyone having passed judgement on him. For even though Honorius was anathematized after this death by the easterners, it should be known that he had been accused of heresy, which is the only offence where inferiors have the right to resist the initiatives of their superiors or are free to reject their false opinions, although even in this case no patriarch or other bishop has the right of passing any judgement on him unless the consent of the pontiff of the same first see has authorized it.” (from the Acts of Constantinople IV, ed. Leonardi, 238)

Francis' statements are not merely wrong. The are heretical.

you still haven't proved that Pope Francis commited a single heresy, you presented two disciplines which had been repealed by pope puis xii and canon law respectively. Then you brought the issue of justification where scholars are in agreement that the council of Trent and Luther are in agreement on the core of that doctrine.

He has made such statements much more than once. To suggest otherwise is to lie.

To say that a person needs to be canonically declared a heretics before he incurs Divine penalty is false:

"But if anyone has been excommunicated or stripped of Episcopal or clerical dignity by Bishop Nestorius or his followers after they began to preach such things (the Nestorian heresy) it is manifest that such a person continues in Our communion. Because...that man who had already shown that he should be removed was not able to remove anyone."

thank God your quote has nothing to do with a pope, put i have provided the teaching of Pope Hadrian that a pope cannot be judge for heresy by anyone.

now I will present the teaching of a council



“God wished the causes of other men to be decided by men; but He has reserved to His own tribunal, without question, the ruler of this see.” Synodus Palmaris, 502.

When you become Pope or God then you can sit in judgement over a pope. but so far you have failed to show a single instance where pope Francis said anything that looks close to heresy.

- Pope St Celestine
Letter to John of Antioch, 430

(Note he says "from the time they began to preach such things" to show that loss of jurisdiction occurs from the time heresy is manifest)

Heretics may be notorious in fact or notorious in law. The latter refers to those upon whom canonical judgement has been passed.
The former refers to those whose heresy is publicly known and whose sinful character (imputability) cannot be excused by any excuse accepted in law. It refers to Francis.

If you hold that Francis' flood of heretical statements do not represent obstinacy, you're simply not of the truth.
The man himself said in an address on May 23, 2015:

"I feel like saying something that may sound controversial, or even heretical, perhaps."

He knows exactly what he's doing.

And if you can't see that, you're headed for the Pit.

Conclusion in my next pos

[/quote]you still haven't presented a single heresy from Pope Francis, the best you have done is show you misunderstanding of what constituite discipline and what is a dogma

Again i must reiterate that half knowledge is more dangerous than ignorance.

There is a difference between dogma and discipline. Jesus is the saviour of the universe is a dogma, Friday fast is a discipline. One pope can change the discipline of another and a bishop may overturn universal law if the salvation of souls is involved.

so i will help you differentiate what is a discipline from what is dogma, then i will show you the document that repealed the disciplines you are alluding to

gaelllic:
Yes, JPII and Benedict XVI were both heretics.

Catholics may not pray with non-Catholics:

"So, Venerable Brethren, it is clear why this Apostolic See has never allowed its subjects to take part in the meetings (conventibus) of non-Catholics..."
- Pope Pius XI
Mortalium Animos, 1928

This is a discipline and it was immediately repealed by the pope after puis xi

"With regard especially to <mixed assemblies and conferences of Catholics with non-Catholics>, which in recent times have begun to be held in many places to promote "union" in the faith, there is need of quite peculiar vigilance and control on the part of Ordinaries. For if on the one hand these meetings afford the desired opportunity to spread among non-Catholics the knowledge of Catholic doctrine, which is generally not sufficiently known to them, yet on the other hand they easily involve no slight danger of indifferentism for Catholics. In cases where there seems to be some hope of good results, the Ordinary shall see that the thing is properly managed, designating for these meetings priests who are as well qualified as possible to explain and defend Catholic doctrine properly and appropriately." De Motione ‘Oecumenica. Published in the Papacy of Pope Pius XII
This shows you that catholic priest, much more a catholic bishop may attend ecumenical meetings with non-Catholics according to the authority of Pope Pius XII, which thereby repealed the discipline of Pius XI. By this we know it is a discipline and one pope may modify the discipline set forth by a previous pope.

Moreso this discipline was further discussed by the Vatican II council and the discipline of Puis XII was adopted and allowed catholics under the authority of their bishops to take part in meetings with non-catholics.

"4. Today, in many parts of the world, under the inspiring grace of the Holy Spirit, many efforts are being made in prayer, word and action to attain that fullness of unity which Jesus Christ desires. The Sacred Council exhorts all the Catholic faithful to recognize the signs of the times and to take an active and intelligent part in the work of ecumenism.

The term "ecumenical movement" indicates the initiatives and activities planned and undertaken, according to the various needs of the Church and as opportunities offer, to promote Christian unity. These are: first, every effort to avoid expressions, judgments and actions which do not represent the condition of our separated brethren with truth and fairness and so make mutual relations with them more difficult; then, "dialogue" between competent experts from different Churches and Communities. At these meetings, which are organized in a religious spirit, each explains the teaching of his Communion in greater depth and brings out clearly its distinctive features. In such dialogue, everyone gains a truer knowledge and more just appreciation of the teaching and religious life of both Communions. In addition, the way is prepared for cooperation between them in the duties for the common good of humanity which are demanded by every Christian conscience; and, wherever this is allowed, there is prayer in common. Finally, all are led to examine their own faithfulness to Christ's will for the Church and accordingly to undertake with vigor the task of renewal and reform.

When such actions are undertaken prudently and patiently by the Catholic faithful, with the attentive guidance of their bishops, they promote justice and truth, concord and collaboration, as well as the spirit of brotherly love and unity. This is the way that, when the obstacles to perfect ecclesiastical communion have been gradually overcome, all Christians will at last, in a common celebration of the Eucharist, be gathered into the one and only Church in that unity which Christ bestowed on His Church from the beginning. We believe that this unity subsists in the Catholic Church as something she can never lose, and we hope that it will continue to increase until the end of time." UNITATIS REDINTEGRATIO

catholics may not pray for those who die outside the Church:

“And this is now the reason for holy men not praying for unbelieving and ungodly men who are dead; for they are unwilling that the merit of their prayer should be set aside, in that presence of the righteous Judge, in behalf of those whom they know to be already consigned to eternal punishment.”
-Pope St. Gregory the Great
Moralia, Book 34

Who a catholic may or may not pray for is itself a matter of discipline.

And canon law tell us that any death can be prayed for even at mass, thus repealing that discipline

“A priest is free to apply the Mass for anyone, living or dead” (Canon 901).

I didn't say he agreed with Luther on "certain issues".
I said he agreed with Luther on Justification

Don't be dishonest. That's sinful.

Francis said:

"And today Lutherans and Catholics, Protestants, all of us agree on the doctrine of justification. On this point, which is very important, he did not err."

That's what he said and it is heresy.

Do you agree or not?

Don't dodge the issue.

may be you need to do your research but there is a joint agreement between catholics and lutherans that on the core of justification, Luther and the council of trent are in agreement. We are justified by Grace through faith in christ Jesus, in baptism irrespective of our work, we are justified that we may do good works. So yes in the core of luther on justification he was right and was in agreement with the Catholic church, but his polemical nature did not allow him to see that.

Miracle2020:
what of bishop kukah? Is the church sleeping?

first of all, Bishop Kukah is a bishop not a priest like Mbaka. In Catholicism a bishop is the fullness of the priesthood, equal in dignity to the pope, that is just to put it in context. Between +Kukah and Mbaka there is a wide difference.

secondly, Kukah addresses government policies just like any priest and particularly bishops are allowed to do. He can criticize government and their bad policies, but never will you see kukah commenting on partisan politics from the pulpit, he will never tell you who will win an election, which candidate God is against or go into person attacks and start cursing people like Mbaka has no.

CAtholic priests may attack different government policies if they wish to, in fact they can support mr. a if they like when discussing with their friends, but they are not allowed to go into partisan politics and using the pulpit to attack mr. b, curse him or stop him from winning an election.

Bishop Kukah is actually doing well attacking evil policies and government failures, Mbaka is attacking person who are candidates of political parties during an election season

Miracle2020:
Foolish bishop, so mbaka don't have any right to say his mind?
When Mbaka was abusing buhari,why didn't the bishops order for closure of the ministry?

He has a right to say his mind, the church has a right to say what kinds of things can be preached from it pulpit and the church has a right to enforce discipline when its rules and not obeyed

nicho450:
I love the fact that he submitted to a higher authority.

The way the Catholic church is run, he didn't have a lot of options

Nedum1979:
But Bishop get it wrong . He would have punish only Rev Fr Mbaka not the worshipers. Closing Adoration ministry is not the answer why can't he appoint another Rev Fr to celebrate mass for the thousands of people that come for church service.. Rev Fr Mbaka is not the owner of ADORATION MINISTRY but only a spiritual director it is own by catholic church. And Bishop receive all the offering collected during mass . Weather on Sundays, Wednesday and Friday night...
I want to tell you that what Bishop did for closing Adoration ministry is worst than what Rev Fr Mbaka did ...
Mbaka offend one man Mr Peter Obi and later apologize and Bishop Onaga stand on Mbaka's error and commit sacrilege...

there is a parish close to that place they don't want to attend mass they want their adoration with Mbaka. if they want to worship there are many catholic churches around that same area.

Fr. Mbaka actually runs the place and decides what happens with the offering, it is his ministry not the diocese's
there is no sacrilege there. a bishop can close up a parish recognized by canon law, what is a ministry which isn't even recognized by canon law that he isnt justified in closing

paxonel:
but the catholic started the rapture teaching and handed it to Protestants so many years ago?

As I said earlier make your research. The catholic church has its own eschatology. it is not rapture. Rapture is a uniquely protestant idea, nobody handed it to them, they created the doctrine on their own.

Shikena:
It is time for the Catholic Church to act. The current Pope should act like one and end this madness. Gentlemanism won't solve some problems, everyone knows no one mess with that church talk less these bunch of devilish subhumans wrecking havoc and spreading sorrow and fear across Nigeria.

act by doing what exactly?

megacity:
Mbaka is ordained in the Catholic Church and that ordination is not cancellable because "the gifts and callings of God is without repentance " - Romans 11:29

Another thing is the Holy Catholic Church belongs to God and no man has the authority to ask Mbaka or his followers to leave

No one asked Mbaka or his followers to leave but +Onaga has the power to do all that he has done and much more

9jaHustler:
You are correct, the Bishop did not close the Adoration ground but Fr. Mbaka suspended activites until further notice. I hope Fr. Mbaka will comeout to address the rampaging villagers.

Usually it will go both ways, Just as the catholics received a letter saying not to attend adoration ministry, Mbaka probably received a letter telling him to cease all activities

Amplifiedking:
Protests erupted at Father Mbaka’s Adoration Ministry today, as members demanded the sacking of the Catholic Bishop of Enugu diocese, for daring to suspend the controversial ministry.
Religion (the opium of the masses), can as well be a tool of manipulation of the poor.
Watch.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z800kYJCin4

These ones are only making it harder for Mbaka

paxonel:
There is no rapture in the bible.
It is all together a cooked doctrine of the ancient Roman catholic, geared at enslaving and impoverishing the mind

Atleast make research before you start condemning people and using the Catholic church as the scapegoat of everything you dislike.

The Catholic Church does not teach rapture. It is a protestant doctrine

gaelllic:
I quoted a relevant dogma, which you can't dispute.
That shows I know what I'm talking about.



Onaga is a heretic many times over.

However, the most straightforward charge is that he is in communion with a manifest, notorious heretic in the shape of Jorge Bergoglio, whom you call Francis.
You know Francis is a heretic, right? I hope we don't have to waste time arguing about that.

He prays with Jews,...

https://www.voanews.com/a/pope-francis-rome-synagogue/3150671.html

prays for dead Jews,...

https://apnews.com/article/pope-francis-ap-top-news-international-news-prayer-pa-state-wire-9b338ca5b24c4b02904ff450211b5056

agrees with MARTIN LUTHER on Justification,...

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/34103/full-text-pope-francis-in-flight-press-conference-from-armenia

endorses sodomites...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-5462762

...and so on and so forth ad nauseam.

The man is an obvious heretic.
A manifest and notorious heretic.
And a heretic cannot be Pope.

See the following dogmatic declarations:

“By heart we believe and by mouth confess the one Church, not of heretics..."
Pope Innocent III
Euis Exemplo, 1208


"St. Augustine notes that other heresies may spring up, to a single one of which, should any one give his assent, he is by the very fact cut off from Catholic unity.
"No one who merely disbelieves in all (these heresies) can for that reason regard himself as a Catholic or call himself one. For there may be or may arise some other heresies, which are not set out in this work of ours, and, if any one holds to one single one of these he is not a Catholic"

- Pope Leo XIii
Satis Cognitum, 1896

Heretics are outside the Catholic Church.
Bergoglio is a
manifest and notorious heretic.
Onaga is in communion with him;
Onaga is a heretic too.

This is why they say half baked knowledge is worst than ignorance.

A man does not become a heretic simply by being in communion with another supposed heretic. POpe Honorius was condemned as a heretic by a council and approved by another pope, yet all who were in communion with him were not ipso facto heretics and consequently excommunicated. In 1054 the latin church excommunicated the patriarch of constantinople but that doesnt automatically mean that the Patriachs of the church of Antioch, Jerusalem and Alexandria who were in communion with him were ipso facto excommunicated. Heresy is an individual thing and its punishment only applies to individuals.

secondly heresy is an OBSTINATE denial of revealed truth or dogma. It does not suffice to show that the person made a wrong statement once, you need to prove that he was corrected by the relevant authority and that he persisted obstinately in his errors. this is something you cannot prove in any of the cases you proposed above. As such no penalty has been incurred since we cannot proof an OBTINATE denial.

that said, let us examine the cases you brought up to claim POpe Francis is a heretic

you claimed he prayed with jews.... That is not a heresy. the is no catholic dogma that say a catholic must never pray with a jew. In fact Jesus christ himself prayed with jews in their synagogue. If pope Francis is a heretic for praying with Jews that means St. peter is a heretic, St paul is a heretic, pope St John Paul ii, Benedict xvi and even Jesus Christ himself is a heretic. Are you serious?

Then you say he prayed for dead jews as if there is a dogma preventing catholics from praying for a dead jew. Are you joking man?

Lastly you said he agreed with Luther on certain issues.
Well if you had bothered to study the council of trent you would have known that the catholic church agreed with luther on many issues, we agreed that the stupid priest who were selling indulgences and abusing the sacraments and sacramentals were totally wrong and the council made sure to outlaw those practices just like luther demanded. so yes there were many issues in with the catholic church agreed with luther, there were also many issues were they disgreed and Pope francis noted both realities.

so sorry you cant prove that onaga is a heretic, nor have you proven that Francis is a heretic, and one heretic does not automatically make all in communion with him heretics.

learn well before you mislead people with half baked knowledge

gaelllic:
1. One becomes Catholic at baptism.
One remains Catholic by adhering to every single point of the Faith.

That's why heretics are automatically separated from the Church.

"Actually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have received the laver of regeneration and profess the true faith, ... "
- Pope Pius XII
Mystici Corporis,1943



2. Don't be arrogant. I know it far better than you.

you think you know which is even worst than ignorance.

you have proof that +Onaga has rejected the catholic faith?

gaelllic:
No, I'm not.

The qualifications for being referred to as Catholic have been dogmatically declared (I hope you know what that means), and he and his ilk fall woefully
short.

dogmatically you become catholic at baptism... you seem not to know the catholic faith

gaelllic:
Onaga is no Catholic. He (and his followers) just pretend to be Catholic.

On the subject of the Blessed Virgin Mary, however...
you need to watch this, and educate yourself:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTVyptxPQ04

so in your mind bishop onaga is not catholic. are you dreaming

decub:
No, Peter Obi didn't go to him. Obi is a Catholic and it's not out of place for Catholics and non Catholics to visit the adoration ground for worship.

Besides, there was no pre announcement that fund raising would be made that particular day. You can search for the video and watch yourself.

Mbaka only wanted to leverage on the presence of dignitaries to raise funds which is against what Obi stands for.

For the records, Mbaka misinterpreted Obi's prudence and proper management of public funds for stinginess.

actually the even was for fund raising. it was the Baazar for the adoration ministry and Obi and a few other politicians were invited

just to set the record straight

Kobojunkie:
I am sorry, what?,

Why am I not surprised that you lack understanding yet you are quick to condemn what you don't understand?

Jude 1;10

But these people scoff at things they do not understand. Like unthinking animals, they do whatever their instincts tell them, and so they bring about their own destruction.

chidonez:
I find it very strange that an ordinary bishop with a newly created diocese is made a cardinal...I use to think the Cardinalate is for important diocese around the world
How come ekulobia diocese is more important than
Lagos(metropolitan dioceses)
Onitsha(that has the highest percentage of catholics in Nigeria
Abuja(I thought he(bishop kaigama)will be the next Cardinal cos bishop of Abuja and Lagos are normally made Cardinals)
Maybe it may be the fact that both Cardinal onayeikan and okogie both emeritus of the above named diocese aren't dead yet cos you can't have 2 Cardinals in a diocese
But even if he is to pick a Cardinal from anambra state why didn't he choose bishop varlerian okeke the most senior bishop in the east

The story no clear at all

Maybe bishop okpaleke will be called to work in the Vatican cos I find it hard to believe that a whole Cardinal with pastor a sufforgan diocese and not a archdiocese

Please correct me if I'm wrong...I may have made some mistakes but due to my limited understanding of the catholic church that's the way I see it

Pachuwudi44 what do you think??

It is a bit strange and this rarely ever happens. I believe his superior is Valarian Okeke and that is the archbishop Onitcha.

but the list for cardinals is a bit interesting because, the cardinal chosen from the United States is just like bishop Okpaleke. he isnt an archbishop, his archbishop was overlook and a suffragan elevated.

Kobojunkie:
Again... Scripture does not refer me to what you claim apostolic times, instead my focus is on Jesus Christ, God's New Covenant and Law by which we are meant to exist in the Kingdom of God.

Jesus Christ, new covenant, the gospel all happened in the apostolic times. Next time don't scream condemnation when you don't even know what you are condemning

Kobojunkie:
Scripture does not refer me to what you claim apostolic times, instead my focus is on Jesus Christ, God's New Covenant and Law by which we are meant to exist in the Kingdom of God.

If you don't know please research or ask. stop making a mockery of yourself

and yet you read a bible that refers to apostolic times. if God no send you apostolic times oya remove the new testament from your bible.


dey there make english dey wear you.

Kobojunkie:
God no send you apostolic times.

Pray4meJC:
For privacy reasons, I'm an old nairaland member.

About 22 / 23 years ago, a classmate in secondary school lured us into the act of masturbation. Few days later, I started practicing the act and eventually ejaculated after tough stimulation lasting almost two hours. It got to a point I was almost getting addicted doing the unclean act.

Thereafter I graduated to pornography when internet was just starting in Nigeria.
I went further to committing adultery and fornication in the heart rather than with the body by peeping on girls and women having their bathe all to fulfill my lustful eyes. I even watched couple have sex by peeping.

Even though I have stopped and repented from these like 12 years back, I still find myself struggling with other bigger problems called wet dreams, unusual erections and wormlike vibrations in my body and sometimes body freezing at night for 30 seconds to 1 minute.

These wet dreams occurred 2 - 3 times in a week and repeat same in like manner every week compulsorily throughout the year and go on and on the following year. I have gone for several dry fasting and prayer deliverance to no avail.

I don't see myself having sex in the dream when these wet dreams occurred. Sometimes, when the wet dream is about happening I'm conscious and try screaming the name or blood of Jesus but it seems am just very powerless and before I know it, semen has spilled out and I will remain like that. Sleep is distorted and all efforts to sleep is impossible.

Sometimes, when I go to bed early by 8PM and I get caught up by wet dreams by 9:30PM, it means sleep for that night is gone completely. I sleep maximum 2 hours daily because this stuff has messed my mind and life up.

Whenever I lie down to sleep, different uninvited thoughts start forcing themselves on my brain both those that happened today and the ones of years ago. I always try deflecting them by replacing them with bible quote or singing praise to God in my head.

I woke up since 2:30 am today with a wet burser soaked in semen and started typing this because I couldn't no longer sleep. Afternoon sleep is very impossible for me as it has never worked for even 1 minute

I'm greatly troubled and worried because I read my bible and pray before going to bed. I dream about my former schools etc.

As I speak, this stuff has rendered me financially devastated with millions in debt. Could not obtain university admission 19 years ago, brain can't simulate, not married, no kids. Very recently this year my health (details withheld due to family members who might find this posts) is suffering as I can't do anything to earn a living as I easily sored tired in the heart.

PS: At night, every day for all these years, uncontrollable strong erections will suddenly start building up whether I put up underwear or not and I think this is more than the 'morning erections ' science talks about. This is pure spiritual manipulation for me. Same thing happens when I get close to some females whether matured or underage, stupid uncontrollable strong erections suddenly pop up without any sexual thoughts whatsoever to these innocent females. Unfortunately, these arousal is also a problem because it inhibits low self esteem, shame and quick withdrawal from whatever discuss I'm having to avoid the bulge being noticed.

Lastly, a year before I got myself ensnared in all these evil activities, I was already developing memory loss and a single headache that almost took my life prior to all these. The headache can be best described as "sawchain and hammer " tearing the skull to pieces and lasted for hours and resistance to drugs. That was the first and last time I experienced such and any other for that matter.

Where do I go from here? Depression is real when solutions are being defiled.

The only problem you have is guilt and lustful thought. that is all

both of those thing together are puting your subconscious in constant sex related strain.


Wet dreams is not a sin, it is the way your subconscious is reacting to the fact that you think about sex alot. if you are able to keep guard over your thought, the wet dreams will normalise.

next time you have a wet dreaam please dont beat yourself up over it. the guilt you have in your mind is compounding your problem.

it is not my fault that you do not know the meaning of apostolic times. if you think your ignorance means you are been fooled sorry.

Kobojunkie:
You think by fooling yourself, you fools others, I see.