₦airaland Forum

Ihedino: It was a hilarious video to watch. The guy's frustration at his last attempt with the repeated additions was very funny. But I learned one thing: do not argue with a fool if you don't want to appear one yourself.

Of course all their arguments were fallacious, but how do you expose fallacy to one who either does not know the laws of logic or completely disregards them? Both of you, Ubenedictus and Barristers can claim that you're the right one and the other's the fool and on one Bible. But only one can be right or else both are wrong.

As it is, that Jesus is God is without question. Submitting it to debate makes it less than the sacred cornerstone of life, Christianity and the Church that it is. I am fully convinced and have proved again and again that anyone can read anything they want into the Bible. The only way I know to prove that what is read is true is to see how it treats Jesus Christ. If it makes Him less than He truly is, then it is anti-Christ. It cannot make Him more, you cannot fill a full vessel.

I'm actually bothering because of you, Ubenedictus. It is no small matter to soil sacred things and continuing in this debate amounts to that.

You hinge your rejection of the Trinity more on the bad track record of the Roman Catholic Church than on anything else.

I simply refuse a rejection of the Bible as well simply because one tenet of it (the founding tenet in this case) is held by that denomination.

I pointed out a few questions for anyone holding contrary views to the Trinity to answer here on this thread and on a new one that I opened. Responses were intellectually bankrupt. I left the questions alone on my thread and simply asked how we are saved by Jesus's Death if He was not God.

I made a clear write-up stating what the Trinity is and why it is true and undefended in the Bible. The answers from those of your company to that write-up were very unworthy of people who claim superior knowledge. I'm sorry that I will not post the link here because I'm done with all that foolishness. Anyway, nobody bothered to dissect my write-up and pick it apart logically. All I got was derision and cheap attacks.

The Bible says that we will know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error or falsehood by testing them as to how they hold Jesus Christ. It says that only the Spirit of Truth will confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. What's the big deal with accepting that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh? It's just Who He is and how He came that bounded that Scripture.

Anti-christ is that which robs Jesus Christ of His Glory, that which seeks to supplant Him. It isn't only some powerful man that will rule the world in Satan's power at the time of the end. It is the spirit of falsehood.

tintingz: lol...this saints are dead I mean real dead for centuries you see you contraditing your bible

Timothy 2:5 declares, "For there is one
God and one mediator between God and men,
the man Christ Jesus." There is no one else that
can mediate with God for you exept your demi god Jesus. If Jesus is the
ONLY mediator, that indicates Mary and the
saints cannot be mediators. They cannot
mediate your prayer requests to God according to your bible. Further,
the Bible said that Jesus Christ Himself is
interceding for you before the Father:
"Therefore He is able to save completely those
who come to God through Him, because He
always lives to intercede for them" (Hebrews
7:25).

BARRISTERS: @Ubenedictus

YES ITS STILL TALKING ABOUT GOD'S QUALITIES HERE,NO MENTION OF JESUS,

...STILL WAITING FOR THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS ('' knowledge was not available to jesus human mind when he is God incarnate in human '')

YOU MADE ME LAUGH HERE......HE,HEE,HEEEE!!! ALL THESE YOUR EXPLANATION ABOVE CONCERNING HUMAN LIMITATION HAS BEEN KNOCKED OUT PATAPATA-POROGODO-YAN-AN-YAN-AN;MEANING;ALTOGETHER BY YOUR NOTION THAT
MY BRO,ARE YOU NOT THE ONE WHO SAYS THAT CHRIST IS GOD-INCARNATE?

THAT IS CHRIST IS GOD IN HUMAN FORM WHILE ON EARTH,THAT IS 'HE IS STILL THE SAME GOD IN FULNESS,WHILE IN BODILY FORM' SO HIS FULNESS TESTIFY TO THE FACT THAT HIS BODILY APPEARANCE DOES NOT ALTER HIS LIMITATIONS INCLUDING HIS KNOWLEDGE,THE ONLY CHANGES IS THAT OF APPEARANCE ONLY,IF YOU DONT KNOW.

AGAIN YOU ARE YET TO SUPPLY BIBLE VERSE THAT SAYS ('' knowledge was not available to jesus human mind when he is God incarnate in human '')

AS THE ONCE ABOVE ONLY POINTED TO HUMANS LIMITATIONS WHICH IS NOT AN ISSUE HERE,BUT WHERE THE BIBLE ACTUALLY SAYS THAT 'A PARTICULAR KNOWLEDGE THAT GOD-JESUS RECORDEDLY POSSESES BEFORE WAS'NT AVAILABLE TO HIS MIND WHILE THE FULLNESS OF GOD WAS WITH HIM' SHOW US JUST ONE VERSE PLS.

SOLOMON TOO INCREASED IN KNOWLEDGE,AND THAT DOES NOT SUPPORT YOUR ASSERTION OF 'DIVINITY IMFOMING HUMANITY' AND BESIDE,HE IS NOT GOD.

BARRISTERS: i earlier quoted rev 22:8 above, sorry it was prov,8:22;
Proverbs 8:22
New International Version (NIV)
22 “The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works,
before his deeds of old;
where jesus confirmed that he is one of his fathers first creations.

ijawkid: Oboy I don tell u...

Na ancestral worship be that.......

Leave mary alone and focus on those who are living...
Mary is dead....

Besides Jesus is there to intercede for us.....

Humans have spirit??

Where is it??

Ok we have spirit but we aint spirit ba?

Tell me where ur spirit is then we can talk.....lol

ijawkid: These are d scriptures u cited...

2 Thessalonians 3:1
English Standard Version (ESV)
Pray for Us
3 Finally, brothers,[a] pray for us, that the
word of the Lord may speed ahead and be
honored,[b] as happened among you,

Who was paul talking to there in that verse??dead saints??

or the living brothers and sisters.....oboy e be like u need googles to read that verse....

Colossians 4:3
Ubenidictus how do those verses support ur stance on u begging dead mary to intercede for u??

U seem not to even understand what ur doing....

U are praying thru the dead to intercede for u......that is called ancestral worship.....

Paul was talking to christians who were alive and not dead persons.....

I am alive so I can put u in my prayers......if I am dead I can't....get it??

There is no bible scripture that supports ur point on prayin thru mary....none...not even 1 scritpure.......

Oboy read those verses well again and don't tell me about spirit......

:-).....

Ubenedictus: very well d psamist asks d all in heaven to join in a prayer of praise just like i ask d angels and saints to join me in a prayer of thanksgiving each morning ps103:20-21, ps148:1-2, the next passage show an angel interceeding for israel zec 11:16. The elder (saints in authority) interceed for us (offer our prayers to God) rev5:8, an angel may also interceed rev8:2 and 3. So yes my bible shows me that d saint in heaven and angel can interceed (offer prayer to d most high) and my bible also shows me that men may ask d angels and saints to join in prayer. If u have dan3:58 and dan3:86 in ur bible then check them. Mat17:3, mk9:4, luk9:30 assures me that those wu have left dis earth are alive and 1pt tells me that Jesus preached to d spirits in prison. And christ say he who lives and blives shal neva die.luk20:38 tells me that 'all are alive to God'. So friend to God abraham moses elijah and even paul peter and mary are alive.
my bible didnt say that God was angry when d angels and saint of authority (elders) offered him our prayers. Where did u get this idea?

no my dear it would be intercession.

no my dear, to worship something, u have to ascribe divinity to dat thing, d saint arent God so they cant be worship.

my bible shows that those in christ fellow xtians on earth can interceed thru christ rm15:30, col4:3, 1thes5:25, 2thess3:1. My bible also shows that d saints and angel can do same thru christ. My bible also shows me that we can learn frm d saints heb12:1-2.
Peace

BARRISTERS: im not talking of 'same image' because humans too are said to be created in Gods image,but same in everything such that no one is greater than another

BARRISTERS: @ubenedictus,

i have answered your question about 'God's infinite knowledge' in my post above(first post of this page) so im waiting for yours,thanks

BARRISTERS: @Ubenedictus

Im not denying that God Almighty do have infinite knowledge pls;


and let me back it up now choosing one of numerous verses that i have;

isaiah 46:9-10;

9 Remember the former things of old,
For I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like Me,
10 Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things that are not yet done,
Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,
And I will do all My pleasure,’

this above quote support 'my own' assertion that God do have an infinite knowledge because i have back it up using our common constitution here;the bible,

so the same way that i expect you to back up your own claim and not mere verbal opinions,it has to rest on a bible verse,so give us bible verses that says that ;

.[size=14pt]'' knowledge was not available to jesus human mind when he is God incarnate in human ''
[/size]

waiting pls,at least i have answered yours.

truthislight: Jesus came to undo what Adam had course.
A befitting ransom.

Jesus came to pay back what Adam lost.

Was Adam God? No.

So Jesus does not need to be God in other to do that.

Adam lost a perfect life that he had befor he sin so he did not have perfection or a perfect body/life to Give us his children.

So, to be able to redeem what was lost a perfect person sinless is what can do, to meet the standard of soul for soul that the allmighty that does not change operate.

No human can meet this condition of perfection to redeem us since all of us are Adams children as such has inherited sin from Adam as such all has sin and have fallen short of the glory of God.

That is why it was necessary for a sinless personage to come in the form of Adam and replace what Adam has lost so as to undo what Adam lost and give us what Adam should had given us had he not sin.

So, when satan and his followers killed an innocent man Jesus in dead (like Adam death) satan forfeited what he got from Adam

this is one of the reason why satan came to tempt Jesus to get him sin just like Adam did by obaying him, if Jesus had obeyed satan it will have been bad news.

Jesus also meet the standard being the first creation in heaven befor taking up the shape of man, just like Adam was also the first creation on earth.

So, he equals Adam and can buy back what Adam lost.

If he was God how can he be equal to Adam or the last Adam.

Just like Adam gave to his children imperfection also our new father like Adam give to us what he has = a clean slate wiping off Adam sin making forgives of sin for all men possible.

On this consideration we can approach the father without him looking or counting Adam sin against us.
Peace

BARRISTERS: @Ubenedictus


of couse tthere is victory here isn'nt it? because suddenly there are nomore bibleto quote from,and that signal the end,or you still have any bible verse to quote?then back up the last claim here again,im waiting;

''why knowledge was not available to jesus human mind when he is God incarnate in human ''

waiting for answer pls.

BARRISTERS: @Ubenedictus, ihedinobi should ignore this,i thought it was ihedinobi.
so,Ubenedictus,


i hate to use some words expecially when i have tried to give someone some respect, but how can i help this when you are sounding in this way in above quote,

pls hear me again in english language again,you even quoted it without understanding it,see the bolded blue letter below;



whats the meaning of lately,
from online dictionary

.lately.
adverb recently, of late, just now, in recent times, not long ago,

i used the word 'lately' before saying that 'you' joined the conversation between myself and olaadegbu,which also means that using any of the options above shows that im not saying that i started with the tread but that the latest posts on this particular page is where you actually joined yourself with olaadegbu and myself on a particular aspect of the issue concerning jesus saying 'that he and the father are one the same way that he said that christians will be one with him the way he is one with the father God'.

so if you dont consider what i said using the word 'lately' well there is nothing that i can do about it.

bright007: what will are u talking about here?
Å man is usually driven by his genetic make-up to make choices.He has already been determined by his make-up and as such,he is limited to the ability/properties what he is composed of.so where is d freewill?

Ihedinobi: In short, because I've talked so much already, we are saved by Jesus's Death because He was powerful enough to take on the full weight of the world's sin and compass the whole of eternity to suffer death for every man. And to conquer death and bring it under His dominions.

We are saved by His Death because He was God-become-man. He subjected Himself to all of man's weakness and limitation so that He could lift man out of it all. If He wasn't God, He couldn't do that.

Ptolomeus: You have a swastika on his forehead, and seeks to hide it with a crucifix. You are a coward, because he can not accept that it is a Nazi in disguise. You yourself have shown that Catholicism and Nazism go together. You have defined as a Nazi Catholic. You yourself have provided the necessary proof to his stupid comment. No more I try anything.
I thank you that you have cleared the doubts raised in the thread
Nazism = Catholicism (ok, are his own words).
Just I have a doubt ... The Nazis considered racially inferior blacks, a slag ... I guess you (which describes itself as a Nazi) also shares that.
Mr. Adolfo, Be happy!

BARRISTERS: @Ubenedictus

bros,

in a contest, there must be a winner,and a looser, a winner will not neccesarily always win while the looser will not always loose but will always win at times too, but only in africa we dont accept defeat easily until it drags one into the mud,thereby making recovery more difficult.

The discussion lately was between myself and bro OLAADEGBU, maybe he could not sustain it or whatever,by not replying my demanding posts consecutively, you joined yourself to the issue perfectly,and i was expecting your well analysed bible quotes to defend and counter defend points until we get to a point where 'the chaff would have been all removed so as to remain only grains'.

you should know by now that if any gospel does not or cannot be reconcilled with the main ideas available in all the verses contained in the sacred scriptures also know as the bible,then it is to be rejected and abandoned in whole,irrespective of who pronounced such gospel;maybe pastor,bishop,pope even an angel,...we are to reject it;

Galatians 1:8-9

8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

we received Gods words through (holy writtings), and not based on an individual opinions (verbal) more so, the scripture has already been completed so addition and no subtraction the according to book of revelation.

again,we are to test all spirits wheather they are of God,or originate from God or from false prophet who misinterprete Gods word;

1 John 4:1-6
New King James Version (NKJV)
4 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

so you can understand what i mean now that you should back up your last claim here which you term 'divinity informing humanity' you need to expecially highlight with scriptures someone whose divinity status could not communicate with his humanity status, so that we can be very sure that the concept or the assertion is from the bible and also a sound and acceptable bible teaching that has passed the test expected of it, so it is not a fight,...just look at it this way;

in an English language comprehension test,you are given a paragraph to deliberate on,and answers must be drawn from the supplied paragraph and not outside it, any answer outside the paragraph supplied or outside the boundary will not be entertained,so also is our debate, the bible is our 'constitution' here and any notion formulated outside the bible standard that cannot be backed by the bible is unacceptable,it may be hard,but that is just thetruth, this is to safeguard true christians from false teachings.
your post below is going ridiculous,as it is evident here that your sustaining the argument is without any substance,how can you prove what you said below;

failure to quote just one bible verse to back up [b[size=18pt]]''why knowledge was'nt available to jesus human mind when he is God incarnate in human is contradictory''[/size][/b] and further cross examinations will expose you to something that i wouldnt like,its laughable anyway,but if you read my discussion with olaadegbu very well i even went extra mile into hebrew/greek translations used then to translate the old and new testaments respectively to draw out meanings used in a particular context and which he did not or have not yet argued.

so my brother we agree to disagree or disagree to agree, we are friends,you have lost this argument unless you supply the bible verse to back up your claim above,thanks and God bless you in all your ways.

BARRISTERS: @Ubenedictus

bros,

in a contest, there must be a winner,and a looser, a winner will not neccesarily always win while the looser will not always loose but will always win at times too, but only in africa we dont accept defeat easily until it drags one into the mud,thereby making recovery more difficult.

The discussion lately was between myself and bro OLAADEGBU, maybe he could not sustain it or whatever,by not replying my demanding posts consecutively, you joined yourself to the issue perfectly,and i was expecting your well analysed bible quotes to defend and counter defend points until we get to a point where 'the chaff would have been all removed so as to remain only grains'.

you should know by now that if any gospel does not or cannot be reconcilled with the main ideas available in all the verses contained in the sacred scriptures also know as the bible,then it is to be rejected and abandoned in whole,irrespective of who pronounced such gospel;maybe pastor,bishop,pope even an angel,...we are to reject it;

Galatians 1:8-9

8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

we received Gods words through (holy writtings), and not based on an individual opinions (verbal) more so, the scripture has already been completed so addition and no subtraction the according to book of revelation.

again,we are to test all spirits wheather they are of God,or originate from God or from false prophet who misinterprete Gods word;

1 John 4:1-6
New King James Version (NKJV)
4 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

so you can understand what i mean now that you should back up your last claim here which you term 'divinity informing humanity' you need to expecially highlight with scriptures someone whose divinity status could not communicate with his humanity status, so that we can be very sure that the concept or the assertion is from the bible and also a sound and acceptable bible teaching that has passed the test expected of it, so it is not a fight,...just look at it this way;

in an English language comprehension test,you are given a paragraph to deliberate on,and answers must be drawn from the supplied paragraph and not outside it, any answer outside the paragraph supplied or outside the boundary will not be entertained,so also is our debate, the bible is our 'constitution' here and any notion formulated outside the bible standard that cannot be backed by the bible is unacceptable,it may be hard,but that is just thetruth, this is to safeguard true christians from false teachings.
your post below is going ridiculous,as it is evident here that your sustaining the argument is without any substance,how can you prove what you said below;

failure to quote just one bible verse to back up [b[size=18pt]]''why knowledge was'nt available to jesus human mind when he is God incarnate in human is contradictory''[/size][/b] and further cross examinations will expose you to something that i wouldnt like,its laughable anyway,but if you read my discussion with olaadegbu very well i even went extra mile into hebrew/greek translations used then to translate the old and new testaments respectively to draw out meanings used in a particular context and which he did not or have not yet argued.

so my brother we agree to disagree or disagree to agree, we are friends,you have lost this argument unless you supply the bible verse to back up your claim above,thanks and God bless you in all your ways.

BARRISTERS: @Ubenedictus

bros,

in a contest, there must be a winner,and a looser, a winner will not neccesarily always win while the looser will not always loose but will always win at times too, but only in africa we dont accept defeat easily until it drags one into the mud,thereby making recovery more difficult.

The discussion lately was between myself and bro OLAADEGBU, maybe he could not sustain it or whatever,by not replying my demanding posts consecutively, you joined yourself to the issue perfectly,and i was expecting your well analysed bible quotes to defend and counter defend points until we get to a point where 'the chaff would have been all removed so as to remain only grains'.

you should know by now that if any gospel does not or cannot be reconcilled with the main ideas available in all the verses contained in the sacred scriptures also know as the bible,then it is to be rejected and abandoned in whole,irrespective of who pronounced such gospel;maybe pastor,bishop,pope even an angel,...we are to reject it;

Galatians 1:8-9

8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

we received Gods words through (holy writtings), and not based on an individual opinions (verbal) more so, the scripture has already been completed so addition and no subtraction the according to book of revelation.

again,we are to test all spirits wheather they are of God,or originate from God or from false prophet who misinterprete Gods word;

1 John 4:1-6
New King James Version (NKJV)
4 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

so you can understand what i mean now that you should back up your last claim here which you term 'divinity informing humanity' you need to expecially highlight with scriptures someone whose divinity status could not communicate with his humanity status, so that we can be very sure that the concept or the assertion is from the bible and also a sound and acceptable bible teaching that has passed the test expected of it, so it is not a fight,...just look at it this way;

in an English language comprehension test,you are given a paragraph to deliberate on,and answers must be drawn from the supplied paragraph and not outside it, any answer outside the paragraph supplied or outside the boundary will not be entertained,so also is our debate, the bible is our 'constitution' here and any notion formulated outside the bible standard that cannot be backed by the bible is unacceptable,it may be hard,but that is just thetruth, this is to safeguard true christians from false teachings.
your post below is going ridiculous,as it is evident here that your sustaining the argument is without any substance,how can you prove what you said below;



failure to quote just one bible verse to back up [b[size=18pt]]''why knowledge was'nt available to jesus human mind when he is God incarnate in human is contradictory''[/size][/b] and further cross examinations will expose you to something that i wouldnt like,its laughable anyway,but if you read my discussion with olaadegbu very well i even went extra mile into hebrew/greek translations used then to translate the old and new testaments respectively to draw out meanings used in a particular context and which he did not or have not yet argued.

so my brother we agree to disagree or disagree to agree, we are friends,you have lost this argument unless you supply the bible verse to back up your claim above,thanks and God bless you in all your ways.

BARRISTERS: @Ubenedictus
and if you dont accept defeat here in the sense that what you wrote below were mere formulations;

can you quote a bible verse to back it that ''unless his humanity is informed by his divinity''.

ijawkid: This explanation I could say is one of the most lame explanations trinitarians have ever given to back up there claims ......

Even Jesus will be shaking his head to this explanation in heaven.....its so lame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But u were the one who said even as @ when Jesus was 2years old he was fully GOD....

Now ur giving us a lame reason why his knowledge on when the world wuld end diminished or dwindled drastically even after being annointed by the holy spirit @ age 30.......

My brother it doesn't make any sense.....

It doesn't make 1 sense,,,,,,,,,...........

Jesus didn't know the date because he did not know......Jesus was telling the truth.......

BARRISTERS: @ubenedictus



so being a human makes jesus not to share the same knowledge of 'the day and hour?' please explain it well,dont just breeze through it like that, explain why jesus in humans form would know that he is one with God but would not share same knowledge.

ijawkid: @ ihedinobi my bro....

U can look up john 10:18 from these other 2 translations....

##Weymouth New Testament
No one is taking it away from me, but I myself
am laying it down. I am authorized to lay it
down, and I am authorized to receive it back
again. This is the command I received from my
Father."


##Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
“No man takes it from me; I am laying it down
of my own will, for I am authorized to lay it
down, and I am authorized to receive it again;
this commandment I have received from my
Father.”
....

Jesus willingly did surrender himself to do Yahwehs will by dying,and then he also had d power to receive it.(Reward for his obedience)........

Let me requote hebrews 5:7-9

7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had
offered up prayers and supplications with
strong crying and tears unto HIM that was ABLE
to save him from DEATH, and was heard in that
he FEARED;
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he
OBEDIENCE by the things which he suffered;
9 And being MADE PERFECT, he became the
author of eternal salvation unto all them that
obey him;
Those scriptures are lucid ........

They show how Jesus's obedience bought him all the priviledges and power he has being bestowed with.....

Thank u bro.....
Its like ur from rivers state.....

truthislight: Good,
a little additions.

if Jesus is the new high priest is he a high priest for himself? Heb7:8-12

Was melchizedech a high priest for himself? Heb7;1-7

Was Aron a high priest for himself?

Is it not to God? Revelation 20:6

This argument is sickening

ijawkid: So in all ur trying to prove to me that Yahweh can die(not immortal) and infact did die??

Like I said and I've always said,Jesus indeed was bestowed with power from a higher source(Yahweh).......

Jesus choosing to lay down his life or take it does not prove d fact that he is BOTH fully man and GOD....

It only proved he was a free moral agent who could make his own personal decisions,not been goaded.....

Jesus chose to die for mankind in obedience to his Fathers will........

After all ,when he died,3days later it was his Father who ressurected him..........

Jesus got a reward for his obedience.....
He took his life and he got it back from the source of life Yahweh..
John 6:57

Jesus was rewarded with immortality in that he was never to taste death again,but annointed and elevated to a lofty position by Yahweh.....he is now sitting @ d right hand of Yahweh until all his enemies are put under his feet........

Let's also read hebrews 5:4-10 to see d results of Jesus being obedient and willing to take his life so as to gain it back...

4 And no one takes this
honor on himself, but he receives it when
called by God, just as Aaron was.
5 In the same way, Christ did not take on
himself the glory of becoming a high priest.
But God said to him,
“You are my Son;
today I have become your Father.”[a]
6 And he says in another place,
“You are a priest forever,
in the order of Melchizedek. ”[b]
7 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he
offered up prayers and petitions with fervent
cries and tears to the one who could save him
from death, and he was heard because of his
reverent submission. 8 Son though he was, he
learned obedience from what he suffered
9 and, once made perfect, he became the
source of eternal salvation for all who obey
him 10 and was designated by God to be high
priest in the order of Melchizedek....

Its all Yahwehs doing........

Let's re-consider the whole of john 10:17 $ 18 u quoted....

New International Version (NIV)
17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay
down my life —only to take it up again. 18 No
one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my
own accord. I have authority to lay it down and
authority to take it up again. This command I
received from my Father.”

....The Father loved Jesus for his willingness and obedience to die according to Yahwehs arrangement to save mankind......

Jesus ofcus accepted d divine will to come and die willingly .....

Meaning that though he layed down his life out of his own initiative,he was @ d same time doing his Fathers will and not his own will.........

Hebrews 10:7 tells us that.....
New International Version (NIV)
7 Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about
me in the scroll —
I have come to do your will, my God.’”....


Those words found @ john 10:17 $ 18 does nt in anyway prove that Jesus is both GOD and man,it only shows how obedient Jesus was and the reward he was to attain and which he did attain........

The Almighty cannot and does not die and no one,I repeat no one has ever seen HIM...........
Thanks,......

ijawkid: The ""kenotic"" doctrine is just a term like trinity used by trinity adherents to describe Jesus emptying his GODhood to live on earth....that's what it says.....

And so when verses are read where Jesus worshipped the Father,or when he said he don't know when the end will come but only the Father,or when he said only the Father is good ,many including u say its because he was just living within the boundaries of his humanity......

But @ d same time the trinity dogma says Jesus while on earth was fully man and fully GOD....how do u reconcile those 2 concepts??

That's why I said that those 2 concepts are totally contradictory.....

I don't know if ur getting my point??

Jesus being refferd to as the son of GOD simply shows and means he is the son of GOD......like we and all d angels are(I'm not saying we or the angels are equal to JESUS)

That word ""son of GOD"" does not in anyway mean that Jesus was fully GOD here on earth........

Then he won't have to be called SON of MAN....

Jesus was flesh and blood.....he was fully human and not fully GOD....

If Jesus still had to be fully GOD here on earth then his death and sacrifice would have to be invalid....

That's why I said its either we choose 1 or leave the other.....

And may I please add this ,that even as a human Jesus knew quite well were he came from and he knew about what he was b4 descending.....

If Jesus culd say that only the Father knew when d end will come,and neither him nor the angels knew,he was simply just saying the truth..............

He didn't know!!!!!!!!!!.....@ that point in time only Yahweh knew.....if Jesus was fully GOD @ that particular time no reason what so ever wuld make Jesus not know when d end will come........except if he suffered from memory loss or amnesia.......

ijawkid: If he laid down his Godhood to be man,then it simply means he aint Yahweh or the almighty....

The almighty doesn't do that.......

The trinity says Jesus is both GOD and MAn @ the same time,but what we've read from the bible says otherwise......

Jesus was a perfect man on earth.....

Jesus didn't just choose to abandon his Godhood,he was infact running an errand for some1 higher than him and was a human on earth(perfect human).......

he was flesh and blood on earth

If not he wouldn't die nor have forgotten when the end will come.......

That's why he was called the son of man........

That phrase'""son of man"" contradicts whatever doctrine that says Jesus was fully the almighty and man @ d same time.......

This mistake and contradictions many have made is what has made d trinity dogma more spurious than ever........

I want u to read more about the kenotic doctrine and compare it with the trinity doctrine and then finally come back to the bible and see how they all contradict each other......

A lil question...:: would u have said Jesus was fully GOD and MAN @ d same time when he was 2 years old......??

ijawkid: If he laid down his Godhood to be man,then it simply means he aint Yahweh or the almighty....

The almighty doesn't do that.......

The trinity says Jesus is both GOD and MAn @ the same time,but what we've read from the bible says otherwise......

Jesus was a perfect man on earth.....

Jesus didn't just choose to abandon his Godhood,he was infact running an errand for some1 higher than him and was a human on earth(perfect human).......

he was flesh and blood on earth

If not he wouldn't die nor have forgotten when the end will come.......

That's why he was called the son of man........

That phrase'""son of man"" contradicts whatever doctrine that says Jesus was fully the almighty and man @ d same time.......

This mistake and contradictions many have made is what has made d trinity dogma more spurious than ever........

I want u to read more about the kenotic doctrine and compare it with the trinity doctrine and then finally come back to the bible and see how they all contradict each other......

A lil question...:: would u have said Jesus was fully GOD and MAN @ d same time when he was 2 years old......??

ijawkid: Those christians that paul asked to make intercessions in behalf of there fellow brothers were they already dead??

Was paul asking brothers and sisters to make dead people there intercessors??

Or was paul asking christian folks who were already dead to pray for kings and all those needing prayers??



Imams and pastors are persons who are alive who d bible. Or quaran as d case mayb had given mandate to take d lead.....james 5:14 $ 15

Those verses apply to persons who are alive....

Mary is dead oooooo....

How can d dead intercede for others??

Where in d bible did u hear that Gods people prayed thru d dead to intercede for them??

Please mention just 1 verse and I'll quit this discuss....

That would totally go against Yahwehs arrangement.....

That wuld be ancestral worship my bro...

Only pagans expected d dead to intercede for them.......


That shuld be tantamount to ancestral worship....

The only person who died, was ressurected and has d right to intercede for us is JESUS and only Jesus......

tintingz: yeah ofcuz I dont even expect you to beliv in d Quran cuz u re brainwashed...and yes imams are God creation they are still alive not dead they asists us in prayers...but catholics create statures of Mary and the saints they kneel and bow before it as if they are gods...Jesus ur god even said you shall pray to the father only through him? or did he mention Mary or his followers?...catholics are pagans including all christians cus y'all worship the jew cross.

MacDaddy01: Sorry then. Thanks for explaining your position

manmustwac: What has that got to do with the point. Is it not the same Nigerians who pray for safe journeys. good leadership, for constant power for their sick relatives etc. Do us people living in atheist Great Britain have to pray for any of the above i just mentioned?