₦airaland Forum

mkmyers45: Unto what logical premise is this definition based or is it because its Aristotle?

mkmyers45: Fundamental principal of all life is a soul? Plants have souls?

mkmyers45: I will attempt to oversee the fact that you clearly avoided my question....Please how do you define soul and substance of life?

Let's take it from there sir

Deep Sight: On a serious note, one of the most prominent christian intellectuals on this forum, viaro, once argued extensively that indeed, christ went into heaven, and still dwells in the spiritual heaven, in his physical body and that he is GOD.

When I pointed out to him that he was saying that God lives in heaven in a physical human body, he went beserk and shortly after that abandoned the forum.

https://www.nairaland.com/429593/physcical-bodies-dwelling-spiritual-heavens

Rossikk: In other words it was his ghost that people saw? That is what a ghost is - a rare manifestation of the spirit body of a deceased person. In which case you have to ask, why was 'Jesus'' actual physical dead body not found in the tomb? A ghost does not use the dead physical body. It adopts a new spiritual body. The bible tale suggests it was the actual physical body that rose from the dead and left the tomb, and also ascended into heaven before onlookers.

Ihedinobi: Wrong, my brother. But since you said that the Bible is not your final authority, I won't pursue it. I'll only say that your interpretation of 1 Cor 3:15 is terribly wrong.

MacDaddy01: So Jesus told them that he will flog them and they ran away?

And the destruction of private property?

tintingz: ^^^ if the bible is not an history book then why do we read the activities accounts of diffdrent people @all am not asking of mary history to be in bible...i only want to kno why mary account of Jesus does not appear in the bible. . .we have mathew, luke, john,mark reports about Jesus where is Mary's own?

mkmyers45: @First Bolded:Please define 'soul' and 'substance of life'

@Second Bolded: Please answer bolded one first...

@Third Bolded: Ok, you have your own definition of transcend? hmm...the dictionary thinks otherwise

@Fourth Bolded: Are you insinuating that indeed religion is faith and not logic?

But when did pope john paul become a christian! i thought he was a catholic! Is christianity and catholicism the same!

Many many christians distance themslves from catholicism.

The fact the catholic faith is at variance with evangelical faith speaks volumes about the inconsistency, the fluidity and the non-reliability of faith, compared to the universality of reason.

Freksy: You should rather commend Ijawkid for his ability to put up with your arrogance and insults.

Your lengthy, but empty write up, is a reflection of your arrogance and overblown sense of self-importance and knowledge.

You raised false expectations by making your trinitarian brothers think you have something solid to offer. I am sure many of them are disappointed somehow.

Do you remember the saying about an empty sac?

I am glad you appreciate the effort made by Mr Anony at readjusting you. Many would have done the same, perhaps they doubt your type admits mistakes and takes corrections.

Among other things, your unchristlike attributes belie your claim of having divine calling

ijawkid: I aint cutting out truths my bro u are....

U 1st of all denied that Jesus isn't Yahwehs slave....

U know when and how.......

U'll have to resort to using roman doctrines to support ur stand.........

He can't be talking to himself or degenerating himself to a lower person when he is still that same person...

omnipotence can even mean we are GOD just in existing in the fleshy form....after all GOD is omnipotent and can be anything....

For example GOD cannot say he does not know when the world would come to an end but @ d same time know when it will end....

Your definition of omnipotence is not rational my bro.....

The john 1:1 ur holding on to does not in any way negate d fact that Jesus didn't have a beginning......


the question u shuld be asking is which beginning........

I quoted 1 corinthians 8:5 $ 6 to show u d difference btw Yahweh and his son as regards if 1 was b4 the other bt u failed to see it.....

New International Version (©1984)
6.yet for us there is but one God, the Father,
FROM WHOM all things came and for whom we
live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ,
THROUGH WHOM all things came and through
whom we live.....

Have u sat down to analyze those 2 expressions. ""FROM WHOM"" and "" THROUGH WHOM""

I want ur explanation on it....

Secondly I quoted this scripture to support the 1 corinthians I just quoted...

John 6:57 which reads...

New International
Version (NIV)
57 Just as the living
Father sent me and I
live because of the
Father, so the one
who feeds on me will
live because of me.....

Jesus's existence lies on the Father his GOD...

**##Jesus does have a life source,just as we humans do.....

That is why he could confidently and truthfully tell his disciples and d women who were present b4 his ascension @ john 20:17...

We all as humans including Jesus share d same GOD ,life giver and life source...

I leave u to ur pagan triangle formular......
Thanks.....

Ihedinobi: Thank you, Ubenedictus.

truthislight: you catholics have a creed that state and defines your trinity and i believe that it is what you are defending?
Is it?

Is this your catholic trinity or it is the name that is deceiving you?

Dont you have a standard?

You want to defend the word trinity as though it is a bible word.
My sympathy.

Ihedinobi: As for a hierarchy in the Trinity, you are nuts, my friend. I spoke of a circle of love, not a ladder. When people are in a circle, you don't ask who is greater, stronger or higher than who. Jesus was in the flesh when He said that His Father was greater than Himself. He was also in the flesh when He said that He and His Father are one for which statement the Jews took up stones to kill Him justifying their action by saying that He made Himself equal to God.

There is no hierarchy in the Trinity. Love is a relationship of submission. The lover always serves the loved. And when the loved loves as well, service is mutual. The Lord of the Church washes the feet of the Church, dies for her, gains God's blessings for her. She also travails for His children, spreads His News, longs for His Day and prays for it. Is He greater or less? He is the same as much the same as your head = your body. What is your head without your body? Or your body without your head?

That is the last time I will deal with a foolish question from you, ijawkid.

Ihedinobi: Thank you, my dear brother, for helping me. I have to get off the thread for a bit now to cool off. I have no doubts regarding your ability to answer for the position that I have presented because I'm sure that it is yours as well. Perhaps I will be brought back here by the Lord but for now, I must leave.

@ijawkid, I assure you that you weary me and annoy me with your roundabout arguments. But I will accommodate you one last time and leave you to my brother from now until I see that coming back will not harm you.

Jesus Christ was Man.

Jesus Christ was God.

As Man, of course, He was not equal to God. That which is created is never equal to that which created it.

His humanity, His form as a man, was a created thing, therefore in that form, He was lower than, not just God, but the angels as well,

until God exalted Him to His Right Hand above all other creatures.

This was in His form as man. But in His form and nature as God, He is equal to God.

He cannot be lower than God in that form. Some things written about Him are written of Him as a Man, others as a God. It is an intellect under the government of the Spirit of God that sees the total unity of the two in one Person.

Also, I have never said that Jesus and the Father are one Person. I said that the Father is one Person and Jesus is Another and they both are God individually and together. I explained why there are not multiple Gods even though there are three People with the God-Nature.

You cannot effectively refute my argument if you create it yourself. My argument is that there are three People each having the God-Nature and Ability, but their love for One Another binds them together so powerfully that they are essentially One and never disagree. If they loved one another less, we would have been created in a chaotic multiverse and been characterized by war. And if we had a Gospel at all, it would not be one of loving one another and bearing one another, but fighting one another and proving greater strength than the next person. That is my position. It is Frosbel who says that God is one Person with different manifestations, not I. Address my own arguments, not your twisting of them. Read them as I have written them and answer them according to them.

@all, I beg you all excuse me. This debate has grown too frustrating for me. My objective was to explain the Christian's true nature in the light of his Progenitor. If God is something other than Love, then the Christian cannot claim a Nature of Love. And if God is Love, then there must be fellowship in God in which this Love is expressed and to which the Christian has been added because of the Nature he received at the New Birth. The Trinity of God is crucial to the Christian's understanding of what he is and what he isn't. It was no mere talk that the Bible said that the test of truth in any man or spirit is in what light they hold Christ. The Christian holds that Christ is God-become-man because that putting on of flesh by the Son of God was in order to give the Christian what God intended for Adam's race when He created Adam but which Adam failed of attaining to: fellowship with the Most High. It is then necessary to understand what this fellowship is that we who have become Christians and those who will yet be added are called to. Had it not been so, I would not make this thread. I have, but continuing the wrangle with some of the commenters here will corrupt the meanings that I was commissioned to deliver, therefore I leave right now that those meanings may be preserved.

truthislight: @Ihedinobi

why do YOU even closely IMAGINE that those your lengthy narative closely explain trinity?

1. You said that "christ came to resolve a problem he is fully responsible for"

2. That the holy spirit is a God

3. That they are 3 seperat, person( is the holy spirit a person?)

4. that the holy spirit DECIDED to empower Jesus (not the father sending the holy spirit to Jesus)

infact, there are too many assumption that you have made that made me to wander if you have the fear of God at all.

You have the face to state that Jesus christ is the cause of the rebelion in the garden of eden, since he was the one responsible for this whole mess and that is why he can rightly be the one that can fully be the one to fixe it?

So Jesus is the root problem of all the suffering of man in the whole of man history?

And he came to earth to deceive us?

You have the gut to lay aside all that the bible said is the course of mans fall and put the blame on Jesus?

So all this things the bible said was a deceit to us all along?

It is to you that this your spirit has reveal the truth to abi?

My advice to you is for you to run far far far from this you spirit cus it is you head it is looking for.
All you have written is CRAP, i dont know why a guy like Anony that has conscience though on the wrong side can be sticking with a no conscience fellow like you.
jesus is the almighty God then satan was tempting him on earth to fall? What CRAP.
Since the bible is not your final authority but that your spirit that reveal this CRAP to you is your authority, i dont know why i am discussing with you any further on this thread.

If other trinitarian should read what you just wrote they will Behead you since that is what trinitarians do to people that contradict them, and you want to do same to Ijawkid if not that its an internet Forum.

Some people want to defend trinity so that they can open a church and collect tith, cus they will not let to register a church if they dont accept trinity.

If you dont accept the standard trinity what are you still doing with the word trinity but for selfish reason.

Things you cant proof from the bible you have the audacity to dump scriptures you know you cant relate with what you where vomiting but you want to deceive people that your stand is from the bible, are you so bend?

Imagine, Jesus kept this world the way it is that is why justice demand that he comes and clear the problem.
He takes the responsibly! What an insult.

In Isaiah the prophesy said that there was silence in heaven when the questions was ask "who shall i send and Jesus said here i am send me"
but you said he own up to the responsibility of what he started.
Started what? Satan and Adam rebelion?

The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, since you dont have it look at what it has turned you into.

truthislight: confusion.
Is the holy spirit a person?

Have you change, is God now distinct?

The athenasian creed says they are not
"seperat, none greater than each other, they are in one mold" etc etc.

Now you are saying they are distinct.

Confusion headquarters.

mkmyers45: @Ubenedictus im mobile nw but we will continue our discuss soon

truthislight: i thought you dont believe in the scriptures (bible) as the word of God?
or do you fall back to it only when it suite you?

Cant you tradition help you out?

So when human die they dont go to heaven again as you people say, ok i see, lazarus case is making you to think and it is the bible that can help you make sense.

Catholics with traditions!

OLAADEGBU: Thanks for agreeing with me but aren't you stretching the truth a little bit here? was it not you that agreed with me in the thread below?

https://www.nairaland.com/945805/christ-solid-foundation

Rossikk: What do you mean by a glorified body?

plaetton: Contradiction.

But ofcourse, faith transcends reason.
Faith that the universe was created in six earth days transcends and opposes the known fact that the earth is 4.7 billion yrs old and that the universe is more than 14 billion yrs old.

Faith in a talking snake transcends and opposes the known fact that snakes do not have the ability to talk.

Faith in hoy spirit having physical sex with a virgin and impregnating her with physical seed transcends and opposes the nagging question of how spirit turns to flesh inside a virgin bosom.

Faith in the blood sacrifice of Jesus transcends and opposes the nagging questions of how blood sacrifice is supposed to save the world and what exactly is the world being saved from, and did the world fare any better after the supposed sacrifice ?

I can go on and on till next year on this.
Faith means, I dont know, I accept.
It is not conviction, it is not truth.

My Anony mentioned earlier that there was only one truth.
If so,does the fact that we have thousands of different sects and denominations of christianity not a testament to the fluidity of faith?.
Since faith is supposed to be grounded on conviction, how does conviction of one truth lead to tens of thousands of sects and denominations?

The very fact that we have different versions and characters of faith is simply because faith is synthesized in the mind. Unfortunately for humankind, it refuses to confine itself in that realm. It violently seeks expression in our reality, and in so doing, greatly distorts it.

mkmyers45: And what evidence have you given to that effect? Logic?



A satisfaction that you believe things a logical thinker can't?



Definition of TRANSCEND

: to triumph over the negative or restrictive aspects of
: overcome : to be prior to, beyond, and above
: to outstrip or outdo in some attribute, quality, or power

su·pe·ri·or (s-pîr-r)
adj.
1. Higher than another in rank, station, or authority.
2. Situated above or directed upward.
3. Situated nearer the top of the head.


Ok, then wherein does never understanding spiritual matters come in?



How are you certain i don't believe in the meta-physical? I will read through later and give my thoughts...

mkmyers45: And what evidence have you given to that effect? Logic?

A satisfaction that you believe things a logical thinker can't?

Definition of TRANSCEND

: to triumph over the negative or restrictive aspects of
: overcome : to be prior to, beyond, and above
: to outstrip or outdo in some attribute, quality, or power
su·pe·ri·or (s-pîr-r)
adj.
1. Higher than another in rank, station, or authority.
2. Situated above or directed upward.
3. Situated nearer the top of the head.

Ok, then wherein does never understanding spiritual matters come in?

How are you certain i don't believe in the meta-physical? I will read through later and give my thoughts...

claremont: Religion and science/logic are radically incompatible and have been proven to be so. There have been noble attempts in the past to harmonize both via a series of basic scientific evaluations of religious claims, the conclusions have unanimously been that these claims have been entirely false.

Science/logic works on the basis of proof, the existence of this proof validates or invalidates an initial hypothesis. In other words, the absence of evidence is clearly the evidence of absence. Religion on the other hand works on the basis of the faith of its adherents, it is a misnomer to have faith and still believe in the rigours of scientific evaluations. A clear example of this is the fact of human evolution, yet religion still upholds the archaic view that a deity created the world in 7 days, this is besides the plethora of evidence that prove the contrary.

This is the reason why most scientists consider religious belief as a tell-tale sign of mental illness. People who choose to disbelieve clear scientific evidence, but believe tales inscribed in a 2000 year old book, are surely mental.

mkmyers45: Wow...Nice of you to make conclusions?

@First Bolded: Can you explain this experience?

@Second Bolded: Please is there a difference between transcendent and superiority?

Is conviction not a spiritual matter?

Ok, so what is the aim of your posts if its not to educate? to ridicule the damned?