₦airaland Forum

Mcleo007: @op, life is made easy with google search. And how did this make the front page?

please be carefull about the net because everything you see is not alway correct. If you want to know abt the catholic church u may ask me or hear from the horse's mouth, the vatican web is www.vatican.va it is very reliable.

Hahaha, are you trying to insult catholics or what? It will interest you to know that both your church and the witnesses are breakaway from the catholic church. You cant compare the source to the tint breakaway so i think the right question is suppose to be about your church and the witness which one is better?

ijawkid: @unebedictus......

So Joseph was just a guardian,a fool who just followed mary up and down with having s*x with her(his own wife) till he grew old and died

wow so you dont know of the prophet that God told to marry a prostitute? It is not about foolishness, God has pass thru d gate and it must remain shut.

Please open d scriptures to proof that....
Enough is enough......
We have opened scriptu®es to show mary later gave birth to other children bt Ð catholic dogma won't let u see it.....

actually you didnt show me any proof, you simply showed me the greek word adelphos which does not mean biological brother. In the absence of a conclusive evidence that mary had another child it simply follows that she was a virgin. So i think the burden of proof still rests on you, so proof your point. In the absense of a conclusive biblical proof i would suggest that you check the writtings of the early christain.

So since it wouldn't open d scriptures to show me that joseph also died a virgin since he was a robot that God married to mary

it is you that said joseph is a robot, may God 4give u

Why won't d protestants break away from u guys with such crazy dogma.......

it is surprising that you cant proof that the dogma is crazx, i have 2000yrs of xtain believe u are talking about what started in the 19th century.

That is why d catholic church hid d bible from many,burnt them on a stake if they ever owned one......

this is a logical fallacy called ad hominem please desist form it because it shows how weak ur arguement is. I would like to tell you that you have been misinformed. The church didnt hid the bible, the church preserved the bible, u are suppose to be thanking the church that you have a bible. Those who were burnt were sentenced by the state law not church law for carrying a fake or wrongly translated bible it was part of the state laws. Go and research.

Show me from d scriptures where it says mary remained a virgin for allll eternity??
If we can't use d scriptures to convince u,then use ur bible to convince us...........
If mary stayed a virgin till death,then it means Joseph too died a virgin....

as i wrote earlier the burden of proof rest on you.

Or mayb he commited adultery to cope with d fact that he had a wife bt culdnt sleep with her again becos she carried Jesus........

it is you that say so. It is a pity that you think the world revolves around sex.

These dogma is whhy u guys worship mary,engage in idolatry.......
Rubbish!!!!!!

another ad hominem, two ad hominem in one post. Serious logical fallacy and an attempt to go off topic. It is a pity that you are overly misinformed catholic donot worships mary. If you dont know the difference between respect and worship ask me.

Ptolomeus: I understand that you are a virgin then. But even being a virgin, surely you masturbate ... is that the relief or pleasure you prefer.

sorry i dont masturbate, hope u are not surprise.

Although we were to accept the absurd, that Mary and Joseph did not have sex, no doubt, they masturbated, as you do for a physical issue.

you are speculating because i dont masturbate and the angel told mary as it is written in greek 'kecharitomene' usually translated as highly favoured, but the surprising thing is that charito comes from charitoo, meaning grace kecharitomen is grace in its pefect passive participle. It actually mean that she has already been endowed with complete permanent grace. This is a reason y she is a fully chaste virgin because God had already given he a complete permanent grace.

Then you're reviewing an issue not known.
There is no law that prohibits a Catholic to have sex with his wife. What you claim is ridiculous.
If you are married Catholics who do not have sex, will be for impotence, stupidity, or because they have sex outside of marriage, but not for religious reasons.
This confirms yet again, that Joseph and Mary had sex normally, like any marriage of the time.
Do not forget that Joseph and Mary were not married by the Christian law ... Christian marriage did not exist.

the problem is that you fail to grasp the full import of reality, the marriage of mary and joseph is not contemporary marriage it is preordain with a single purpose i.e Jesus the son of God

Ptolomeus: Sacred tradition.
It is also sacred tradition that there is fire in hell ...
"Sacred Tradition" according to your usage, means "we must believe this."
Mary was not a virgin ... had several children ... the Bible says it ...
You still cling to the theory of Joseph's homosexuality or impotence. That is very unlikely.
If the "sacred tradition" obliges you to believe that Joseph and Mary never had sex, that Mary was never masturbate, etc.. etc.
Be happy ... but do not pretend you that your claim is accepted by others ... because it generates laughter.

it is a pity that you dont even know the meaning of sacred tradition, well what can i expect from your 21 century church. If u want to know d meaning of sacred Tradition please feel free to ask

Ptolomeus: You speak of Bishops. Also (presumably) that Catholic priests do not have sex ... You mix the issues.
Joseph and Mary were married long before the supposed apparition of the angel ... There was no reason for celibacy. None.

where is it in the bible? My bible say that mary and Joseph were bethorted before the apparation, the were not married, they were not living together, an they couldnt have sex.

Clearly, the so-called "virginity" of Mary is a myth.
Read also about the brothers of Jesus ...
You, without providing any evidence, try to cover everything with celibacy.
You could do so based on impotence, or homosexuality of Joseph ...
All assumptions ... in any way they want to invent the virginity of a married woman.
That is difficult.
Your comment was not anything happy.

have you read ezekiel 44:2 no one can enter through the gate God pass through. And the 'brothers of Jesus' can mean relative or just jews it doesnt necessary mean biological brother. Maybe you should ask for a greek class in ur university or you can simply check the internet

OLAADEGBU: I believe this is where your misconceptions originated from. You have to discover what the Bible means by The Church is the pillar and foundation of the truth. When you find out this truth then you will know who wrote all the books of the Bible and know that the Scriptures interpretes itself with no need from outside influences.

pls is that what ur pastor told u? Show me one verse that say 'scripture interprete itself with no external influence' if u cant that means u are simply following ur pastor. My bible says the church is the pillar and foundation of truth, sorry that u dont have that type of church because ur 'church' started in the 20th century.

OLAADEGBU: Am sorry to burst your bubble again. It will do you good to learn about biblical history. James, the son of zebedee who was one of the 3 disciples of our Lord Jesus Christ. His own sibling was John the beloved, and their mother was the one who came to Jesus and it was recorded that she lobbied for her sons to be seated on either sides of Jesus in His kingdom. Unfortunately for James, he became the first Martyr while John was the only disciple who never got martyred but wrote the last book of the NT while imprisoned on the Isle of Patmos.

James, who was the half brother of Jesus Christ must not be confused with James the son of Zebedee. James with the other siblings of our Lord Jesus Christ only became a disciple after the death and resurrection of Christ Jesus. He was one of the presiding elders at Jerusalem and he wrote the epistle of James. His other sibling wrote the epistle of Jude, and their mother is different from the mother of James and John the sons of Zebedee and they were not relatives.

the worst twist of bible passages i have ever seen. My friend u better stop this or u are asking for the curse in the last chapter of revelation.

ijawkid: @italo...I give ona catholics hand oooo..

I can't imagine u tryin to coÑvince d whole nairaland that Jesus was d only chÍld mary gave birth to....??
Hmmmmm....

It means after Jesus birth Joseph never had sex with mary

Ola even gave u d right scripture that hit d nail on d head still u try to dodge using logic and d catholics teaching to bortress ur own heretic point.....

actually if you had the slightest knowledge of christain history you would have known that it is your ideas that have been heretical for 2000yrs of christendom. Ignorance is not an excuse so go and make research.

Because in africa especially in nigeria we call elderly aunties mummy too...
Now if that explanation is not from ur own originality,can we say it agrees with d bible
[/qoute] pls dont display ignorance in the public the biblical culture is clear cousins, relatives or fellow jews are called 'brethren'. Go and research[quote]U wanna tell me d bible has never explained a family tree where cousins are involved
U wanna tell me that D bible doesn't knw hw to differentiate cousins from immediate siblings and sÓ it needs ur help??

i asked you before y does gen call lot abram brother? Tell me.

U see where this catholic church dey carry ona go??

this is a diversion. Your church is a break away of a breakaway of a breakaway...from the catholic church. Go and make research.

Even with clear evidence from d bible u still erroneously explain that verse....

What is there in agreeing that mary gave birth to other kids??

Will Ít kill catholics or they just wanna satisfy a dogma that is not biblical....

actually it is you dogma that is defective. Tell me why your dogma has been regarded as heresy for 2000yrs? Make research

@ola....nice job bro....

If mark 3:31-35 can't make italo understand then just let him be.....

The catholics automatically made joseph a pope who can't sleep with his wife,....

Since mary gave birth to Jesus then Joseph was starved of sex from his own wife for all eternity

you really didnt have a point, the purpose of marriage isnt sex. Joseph was necessary as a guardian and a adopted father, mary was the mother mother of Jesus. The purpose of the holy family Jesus the son of God not sex

italo: Thanks for the compliments. Though I'm not a Theologian per se, but I read the writings of Theologians and learn from them both on-line and off-line. I know that The Church is the pillar and foundation of the truth so any interpretation of scripture that is outside what the Church teaches is wrong. The Church canonized and validated the Bible, so how can we teach the Church what is contained in scripture.

yeah when people leave the pillar of truth they end up with a crumbling house it is a pity. The stupid thing these guys are saying never existed for the 1st 1500yrs of xtainity, for 1500yrs anyone who doubted the viginity of mary was clearly a heretic it is a pity that the protestants have left the truth and are now protest ants.

OLAADEGBU: "But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother" (Galatians 1:19)

Lets see the Defenders Bible Notes on Galatians 1:19 written by respectable bible scholars.

wow are you so dull or do u not understand the bible? James is the son of zebede not joseph, james mother is mary clopas not d moda of Jesus. I thought u even had a little knowledge of the bible, the parent of James d apostle are listed in the bible.
They are not siblings. Go and learn about jewish culture.

This is a very bad move, i am a catholic and wont take it if someone demolish my church. He is supposed to beef up security or suspend all worship from the mosque till the boko haram crisis is over. It is against the law for a government to demolish a house of worship, unless d worshipper consent or request it. You have to respect the faith of other.

italo: Reading further, verse 11 says:

"When I put on sackcloth, people make sport of me."

The "sackcloth" signifies repentance. Jesus did not wear sackcloth literally and he could not have worn it figuratively because he never sinned so he didn't need repentance.

Verses 27, 28: ...do not let them share in your salvation. May they be blotted out of the book of life and not be listed with the righteous."

The same Jesus who came for the salvation of the world, who said "...Father, forgive them..." could not have said the above.

Think!

wow another good explanation. Think!!!

italo: The New Testament does not say that Elizabeth is Mary's cousin, the Greek word for which is "anepsios." The word used in Luke 1:36 to describe Elizabeth is "suggenes" (pronounced su-gen-ace), which simply means "kinswoman" or "relative". It tells us nothing about her exact relation within the extended family. All we can tell from the word "suggenes" is that Elizabeth was some kind of female relative of Mary's. But whether she was an aunt, a cousin, or a more distant relation cannot be determined from the word. It was inaccurate and unwarranted for KJV to translate the word as "cousin."

Because neither Hebrew nor Aramaic (the language spoken by Christ and his disciples) had a special word meaning "cousin," speakers of those languages could use either the word for "brother" or a circumlocution, such as "the son of my uncle." But circumlocutions are clumsy, so the Jews often used "brother."

The writers of the New Testament were brought up using the Aramaic equivalent of "brothers" to mean both cousins and sons of the same father—plus other relatives and even non-relatives. When they wrote in Greek, they did the same thing the translators of the Septuagint did. (The Septuagint was the Greek version of the Hebrew Bible; it was translated by Hellenistic Jews a century or two before Christ’s birth and was the version of the Bible from which most of the Old Testament quotations found in the New Testament are taken.)

In the Septuagint the Hebrew word that includes both brothers and cousins was translated as "adelphos", which in Greek usually has the narrow meaning that the English "brother" has. Unlike Hebrew or Aramaic, Greek has a separate word for cousin, "anepsios", but the translators of the Septuagint used adelphos, even for true cousins.

the Greek has a word for cousin, but even in the Septuagint they did not use this Greek word for cousins whenever cousins came up.

this is a beautiful explanation, wow u are gud. You put everything in the right place. Im wondering, are you a theologian or just very knowledgable?

italo: Only two of Jesus' apostles were named James.

James the brother of John, whose parents are Zebedee and Salome...and James whose mother is Mary of Clopas.

Clearly, none of these is a sibling of Jesus.

please tell him again.

OLAADEGBU: There are many people with the names Mary, James and Joses but the Scriptures made it clear who His brothers and sisters were.

"For neither did his brethren believe in him" (John 7:5).

And if you've been misled into believing that this means relative see the above verse was the fulfillment of a Messianic prophecy below:

"I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother’s children" (Psalm 69:8.)

And that's if the Scriptures mean much to you than your church dogma.

it is a pity that you cant even understand jn 7, jn7:3 says 'his brethren therefore said unto him', his brethren refered to are his apostles the same wit verse 5 and 10. And the psalm was actually a song of david about himself. James and john are sons of zebede also called clopas, their moda is mary of clopas wu is different mary d moda of Jesus. Mary d moda of james and joses can b seen in matt27:56,mk15:40,47,16:1,luk24:10,jn18:25

OLAADEGBU: What stopped the writers of the Scriptures from using the word cousin instead of brothers? Afterall Elizabeth was referred to as a cousin of Mary. Don't tell me what you think the Bible means so as to suit your own church tradition and dogma.

y does gen 13:8 call lot nd abram brethern? The answer is simple because close relatives are call adolphus/brethern like africans.

OLAADEGBU: If Apostle Paul calls him the Lord's brother no "sacred tradition" could nullify that

i really cant believe that u cant read. He calls him adolphus which is simply a relative. It is a pity you dont know and u dont want to know. Person like you will never learn. Is lot a step brother of abram? Then y are they called brethern/adolphus? It is a pity.

Ptolomeus: Joseph was a virgin? Mary a consecrated virgin?
You have any proof of that? A biblical passage stating that?
Or is it just something you say you crave?
We return to the theory that Joseph was gay and Mary lesbian ... That also would explain it.
Serious!

have you ever heard of the phase 'sacred tradition'?

OLAADEGBU: The siblings of our Lord Jesus Christ are clearly stated in the Bible if you read it.

"Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him." (Mark 6:3)

you just dont get it do u? Is lot abram sibling? Why is he called brethren/adolphus? You need some research.

Ptolomeus: Good joke ... I can not stop laughing!
Excellent sense of humor!

laugh out loud, but the joke is fact.

Ptolomeus: I already have explained to you, but you you worried for my English.
You have a problem of analysis?
You ask why?
possibilities:
1. Joseph was g.ay, did not like women and therefore did not have se.x with Mary.
2. Mary was fri.gid and did not want to have se.x with a man.
3. Mary was a les.bian, did not like men.
I rule out other possibilities such as lack of love and desire, as ultimately married.
Married then what? To watch cartoons on TV?
Use you brain a bit and you'll upgrade your analytical performance.

@Logicboy Thank you very much for supporting my English.
A hug!

you need to read history, there were married eastern bishops who didnt consumate their marriages, both husband and wife were celebate. Make some research, wat seem impossible to u is not imposible for other. Sorry marriage is not for sex but for companionship.

OLAADEGBU: "Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him[/b]." (Mark 6:3)

Only if folks have been allowed to read their Bibles instead of being indoctrinated by their priests with dogma that has no place in the Holy Scriptures.

it is a pity that you dont understand d bible dat u rid, nor do u even try to learn d original languages it was written nor d context or culture. Friend your knowledge is really defective. You read to ur distruction im sorry to say.

OLAADEGBU: I may have to spoil your lovely dogma here. James as referred to in James 1:1 is the Lord's step brother as other verses confirm. James is called "the Lord’s brother" (Galatians 1:19), and is apparently the one mentioned in Mark 6:3 and Matthew 13:55 as the first of four "brethren" of Jesus who were sons of Mary. There is nowhere mentioned that he was a relative or cousin as you have been indoctrinated.

sorry my dear friend but jm1:1 say 'james a servant of God and of d lord Jesus christ to d 12 tribes which are gathered abroad greeting' that passage does not have the word 'step broda' im sorry dat u didnt see it. The 'adonai adolphus' in gal means doesnt imply a biological brodo ur pastor would have been able to tell u this how wish he had d slightest knowledge of greek and the culture, im sorry dat greek is not taught in your bible skull. Mtt13:55 said 'adolphus' it didnot say that they are sons of mary d moda of Jesus if ur bible is not a gud translation den change it.
How i wish you were a biblical scholar in any way or ur pastor was trained in d bibo u guy would have noticed dat d same word adolphus is us in gen13:8 and d word brethren was used 4 cousins. It is a pity dat u didnt know dat d word brethren is used for relative.

OLAADEGBU: I am referring to James, the Lord's step brother.

im very sorry to burst your bubble but Jesus didnt have step brodas, james and is the son of clopas who is called alphaeus and mary of clopas wu is not the moda of Jesus. Im very sorry to tell you this but your idea cant be found in holy scripture nor sacred tradition of the apostles.

lafile: This is what i meant. A person is only the mother of what originates inside of her. The human Jesus Originated in Mary's womb. Not God. Same reason we know that though Jesus was called the Son of David (Luke 1:32: He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David), David most definitely cannot be called the Father of God.

your logic has a big problem, wen i was born my genetic and material body came from my parent but my spirit was from God, does that mean that my moda is not really my moda? When Jesus was born a material body from mary a spiritual soul and his divinity all came together as one person in d womb of mary, so wen mary gave birth she gave birth to Jesus God and man, so she is the moda of Jesus she is d moda of God d son

OLAADEGBU: Are you sure that it wasn't consumated?

"But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother." (Galatians 1:19)

Here one of Jesus' siblings sired by the union of Joseph and Mary.

i think you got it totally wrong, the word there is a greek word aldophus it does not imply biological sibling it simply means a relative. The jews are like african and they call their relatives 'brother'. Pls get it right