₦airaland Forum

AkunnaTochi:
Don't fret. Very soon he'll call you the Pope.

lol, Pope ubenedictus

live4dgospel:
How then will you being part of the movement reject the heresies of Roman Catholic? Okay! If you are confident in yourself, answer these questions. Where is it written in the Bible that any one who tries to find the truth with the Bible on his own should be executed, as the Inquisition did in the past, if it was not an attempt to divert the attention of the true seekers from finding the faults in Catholicism? And show me where it is written in the Bible that Mary is divine and she can intercede for us in prayers, and show also where and when the apostles or the early church believed and did so, if it's not true that Roman Catholic corrupted the gospel?

I'll happily disperse your misconceptions above after you answer the questions I had earlier raised.



shifting my questions aside doesn't make for a honest discuss.

bloodofthelamb:
Jesus said not everyone that calls me Lord belongs to me and will enter the kingdom.

if you knew this why then were you busy crying about who called Jesus more?

is it bias abi prejudice

Emmanystone:
Hahahahahaha. Every Christian is the New covenant is a Priest. There's was no longer an Oder of priesthood. If there was, we will see it the Acts of the Apostle, pls point it out.


The Catholic priesthood is paganistic.

do you know every Israelite in the old covenant was a priest, yet they still had ministerial priests?

who told you that because we are a kingdom of priests then the ministerial priests disappeared?

ObservantFellow:
The path where using contraceptives was equated with terminating human life is where they got it wrong.
How can any sensible person not be in support of birth control in this time of population explosion.

the pill can abort a foetus in the first few days. that is the termination of human life

Ladyhippolyta88:
To each his own everybody to their kettle it's a free world and morality is subjective the church should mind it's business and in a free world they are free to air their views.

the church is minding her business, morality is the Church's business

Themandator:
It is the resort of many of your kinds to leave the substance to chase shadows.... Even a Muslim can do better..... Your church says Peter is the rock in which the church is founded. I ask and expect that anyone coming across my statement would educate me why it is so, from the scripture but no. It is nonsense because you have no sense to counter it.... Let me wait for father Ubenidictus, he has more knowledge than many of you who call as themselves Catholic without even an iota of scripture to defend their beliefs.


Why should anyone sing Christ is my solid rock the root of my soul recreation and still make the mistake of referring to Peter as a rock. Sing rocks of ages cleft for me let me hire myself in thee and comments sacrilege by referring to Peter as the rock. Is he sharing title with Jesus Christ?



This is the conversation in this thread even between Rev. Father Ubenidictus and myself if you care to make contribution. Sensible and scriptural contribution:





My mention:
Pentecostals were the first sets of Christians after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. .... Afterwards , the catholic religion came on board and then Martin chanced in the scripture and discovered a gap between the church doctrine and the scripture and turned a Protestant against those doctrines and traditions.

Catholics were first formerly Pentecostals until the persecution of the church by the Romans led to a compromise by some of the Christian leaders which became Catholic church.

Protestant s are former Catholics whereas , Pentecostals are original Christians


Another contributor asked me this question:



And I replied thus:

The great commission started after the death of Christ, with the release of the holy spirit on the day of Pentecost....Acts 1:8 ..., That was when Christianity was born as Pentecostals. ...People who have received the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
The statement of Jesus wasn't address to Peter as a prophecy hinge on him for the name Peter itself is not rock but stone. And there was no prophecy anywhere for telling of any Peter, being the bedrock of the church. ..... Everything about Jesus was preceded by prophecies from the prophets of old until John the Baptist.... Never was there a prophecy concerning Peter.


When Jesus made his statement about the rock , he was referring to himself as he is the only rock rejected that became the main rock


Then Ubenidictus mentioned with this question:



My response

If you know the meaning of the beginning word, AND in verse nineteen you would have unraveled the rock, the building and the key(mysteries of the kingdom)


The next mention below wasn't from him but a busy body




I replied him, Peter and he returned with this reply below:




And off course I wasn't going to let the fallacy go unchallenged:


And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it


If Jesus was referring to Peter ,he wouldn't say ...upon this rock but upon you since he,Peter ,was right there with him... He was talking about a distant rock Hut a very present one.


And then the next verse would not have read ....thus: And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.


The ground can't have the key to what is built on it for it useless to it because it is immovable, unshakable and has access as a foundation to every secret in the house. The ground owns the house. See through it like a naked cadaver and correct whatever it wants corrects and withdraws support whenever, leading to the collapse of the house


access to the kingdom was granted Peter but the founder and base remains in Christ . ...the church is the kingdom of God on the Earth and the sure rock is Jesus not Peter .mysteries or revelation for accessing the kingdom ...the secret was given to Peter and the apostles with him


Here are cross references to this rock matter ....

1, Psa 118:22 ....2 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner


2, Isa 28:16 .... Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste

3, Isa 33:20......Look upon Zion, the city of our solemnities: thine eyes shall see Jerusalem a quiet habitation, a tabernacle that shall not be taken down; not one of the stakes thereof shall ever be removed, neither shall any of the cords thereof be broken


4, Joh 1:42 ...

5, 1Co 3:11 And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone........this is your rock assertion ..... Matthews was written in Hebrews, a sister language to Aramaic .... Peter is stone not rock.

6, [Eph 2:20] ........ And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;



Help me with a supportive biblical proof of peterr being the rock ... In the mouth of two is a thing confirmed


NB: of you are not convinced about who the rock is and on who the church if Christ is founded then I doubt if any discussion of the keys would make any sense to you.




If I am replying the same person, I ask you what baptism of the Catholic Church should be opened to pentecostals and what and who is a pentecostal?

Therfore this Communion reply is neither answer or an attempt to reply or explain Catholic baptism that should be made open to pentecostals.






Saint canonization is a tradition of your church not scriptural injunction. By the way, Saint is not a title for dead men and women. Christians are called and referred to as saints of God.
Declaring a dead person a saint adds no value to his standing before God... It won't lead to his or her promotion to PA to God.

It is nothing but earthly busy body activities without no value to the living or the dead, whatsoever. Even praying to him is a waste of precious time.




Now make sensible contribution. Don't hope to reply or bulletin.i was once involved .. I have gone past that level of cut and join knowledge by the help of the Holy Spirit.

please avoid given me titles I do not use

Themandator:
The church of Christ did not get to Rome,as the Roman Catholic Church but simply as witnesses of Christ who the Roman authority took little interest in until they started turning many away from pagan worship through proofs. Then the authorities went on clampdown and persecuted the church which had no central authority but just an assembly of believers for years, confiscating the scriptures and making it illegal to own it.... The scripture was already in circulation around Asia..... Daniel had the book of Jeremiah and was studying already while in prison.....It wasn't in the hands of Catholic Church authority. The old testament was a requirement, more like a catechism amongst the israelites as they were required to mediate upon it, day and night.

It wasn't until Constantine, a war time general became the emperor that a dramatic change occurred in the relationship between the state and the Christian community. He firstly put a stop to the persecution of Christians and then declared citizens right for them. Then they started coming out openly to profess their faith but the emperor had other designs.

He afterwards summoned the different groups to a meeting....the beginning of organised Christianity. Historians tell you that from records, there was no Bishop of Bishops until Constantine introduced it. Constantine demanded as head of government and the pagan culture to have a title equal to his title in his pagan religion....the birth of vicar.... Meaning indirect Christ


When the outcome of this meeting got out to the larger companies of believers, some rejected it the idea that a man who was yet to renounce his pagan worship would assume such title........the return of persecution.... Those who accepted became an arm of the state and were empowered by the state to go after the other believers...... Persecution and inquisition....

The Roman empire, the United States of America of that era did sponsor the spread of catholicism to other parts of the world....that was how the domination came by....state sponsored.... It was not scriptural that led to protest but the content of the scripture which Martin came in contact as a Catholic...... Martin was in Germany protected against at the Catholic wish by the German Princes and elite...... Martin didn't champion pentecostalism for pentecostals are not protesting anything like Martin. What he championed was protestanism.... A church in his honour today is Lutheran church.


Pentecostals are saints who have received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as recorded in Acts 2..... They received it on the day of pentecost, hence the name pentecostals. What you are meaning to say is the revival. When they became emboldened after the fall of the Roman empire to once again come out publicly to profess their faith.
Currently, in China, there are lots of underground pentecostals movement who refused state regulation of their belive and what and what not to teach in church. Articles have it, that they are more in numbers than the once regulated by government.

you have just made lot of unsubstantiated statements,

can u show us any ancient historic writer that tells us Church in Rome had no leaders.


can you tell us when the "real church disappeared and the Catholic Church took over?

ejikemeuwa:
i appologise. i retract my statement

no wahala oga

Emmanystone:
Was paul a priest? did he bexome celibate because there was an order of priesthood which practiced Celibacy? No. Is celibacy in the Priestly Oder Christian? No. Is it Hellenistic? Yes.

Paul was celibate some other apostles were married.

those who were already married kept their wives those who weren't like Paul learnt the preferability of the celibate life.


there are still married priest in my Church but as scriptures say the celibate life is preferable.

and yes priestly celibacy is Christian as early Christian writing bear witness.

live4dgospel:
Studying it alone is not safe either, in fact that's the easiest way cults are formed. Someone can just wake up one morning and brings out his own understanding of the Bible and establishes his doctrine and church, it is the reason why we have many denominational churches and leaders. That's why predecessor of faith is very important. What do you say about Abraham, Isaac and Jacob etc? Of course, Abraham passed his faith down to his descendants even before the Scriptures were written down. In the New Testament, the same thing happened, Paul taught Timothy, Titus, Galatians etc. In a nutshell, without the predecessors of faith the gospel may not be easily preached to the the whole world, then the Great Commission will not be possible, thanks to apostles and the early church. Even though some part of the gospel was corrupted through the devil agents like Roman Catholic.

do you even know what the early Christians believed or you think the transmission of the faith ended with Titus and Timothy?

who told you the Roman Catholics corrupted the Gospel.

Themandator:
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it


If Jesus was referring to Peter ,he wouldn't say ...upon this rock but upon you since he,Peter ,was right there with him


And then the nest verse would not have read ....thus: And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.


The ground can't have the key to what is built on it for it useless to it because it is immovable, unshakable


access to the kingdom was granted Peter but the founder and base remains in Christ . ...the church is the kingdom of God on the Earth and the sure rock is Jesus not Peter .mysteries or revelation for accessing the kingdom ...the secret was given to Peter and the apostles with him


Here are cross references to this rock matter ....

1, Psa 118:22 ....2 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner


2, Isa 28:16 .... Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste

3, Isa 33:20......Look upon Zion, the city of our solemnities: thine eyes shall see Jerusalem a quiet habitation, a tabernacle that shall not be taken down; not one of the stakes thereof shall ever be removed, neither shall any of the cords thereof be broken


4, Joh 1:42 ...

5, 1Co 3:11 And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone........this is your rock assertion ..... Matthews was written in Hebrews, a sister language to Aramaic .... Peter is stone not rock.

6, [Eph 2:20] ........ And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;



Help me with a supportive biblical proof of peterr being the rock ... In the mouth of two is a thing confirmed


NB: of you are not convinced about who the rock is and on who the church if Christ is founded then I doubt if any discussion of the keys would make any sense to you.

I'm sorry dear but it seem you don't understand scriptures at all.


the Bible says"out of his fullness have we received grace upon grace".


Jesus is the good Shepherd but when he was going to heaven he gave that office to Peter when he said "feed my lambs, tend my sheep". does that mean Jesus is no longer the good Shepherd? no he is still the good Shepherd but he is now shepherding his sheep through the ministry he gave to Peter.
so am I wrong when I say the Lord is my Shepherd?

Jesus said all power has been given to him and the gave his apostles similar powers does that mean he no longer has the power? no! the apostles are exercising their received grace in his name.

in fact revelation tells us that Jesus holds the keys but matt 16 tells us he gave it to Peter, does that mean Jesus has lost the keys and cannot open the door or close it? no Peter has the keys and exercise it through Jesus... so I can teach that Jesus holds the keys and can open and close and yet I still believe he gave it to Peter.
in the same way Jesus is the everlasting Rock and that clearly in matt 16 he gave that office to Peter to exercise... there is nothing wrong with that, that isn't the first or only time Jesus gave someone an office that explicitly belongs to him.... there is no contradiction unless you are ignorant of scriptures and how Jesus delegates offices.

the text is pretty clear, you are cephas and on this cephas I'll build my Church, Paul goes on to teach in Ephesians how the apostles are the foundation of the Church and Jesus is the corner stone.


but even if you totally disagree that still doesn't affect my point.... the main issue for me isn't whether or not you agree about the Rock the main issue is the keys....


what do you know about the biblical imagery of giving keys.

ejikemeuwa:
the guy on the right look lyk those pharisees that planned Jesus' crucifixion.see as im face strong

take am easy, he is an eastern Orthodox priest and Monk... he is somebody's pastor no cause e-war here

Emmanystone:
You didn't get it. Celibacy is not wrong, but who or where in Scriptures are you basing your clerical celibacy because it was never practiced whether by the Jews or early Christians, but by Hellenists.

my dear, apart from the writers of the Bible how many early Christians do you know who wrote works?


should I take this to mean you disagree with Paul who teaches that celibacy is the preferred state for service to God?

Themandator:
Peter

so Jesus said

Simon bar Jonah flesh and blood didn't reveal this to you but my father in heaven----- to Peter.

Jesus said

you shall be called cephas (Rock in Aramaic) ------ to Peter

then he suddenly jumps and start talking about himself.

and on this cephas I'll build my ecclesia.

then he jumps back to Peter and says

I will give you the keys of the kingdom.


sorry that doesn't make sense unless you are already biased, how come Jesus shift from peter to himself and back to Peter without indicating within the same sentence.



but If you wish to continue with such untrue exegesis just to proof your point OK, it doesn't affect what Catholics believe.



this is the important stuff

what do you understand by the biblical phrase"keys of the kingdom".?

remember to place precept on precept

bloodofthelamb:
Ok, yes.

how many times did you hear Jesus or Lord or Christ...?

Crystalvivi:
Congratulations... It's a shame that here in imo state we can't accept a bishop from anambra yet an igbo man is a not just a bishop but Archbishop in Benin...

don't praise Benin people oh...

they have had 3 successive non-benin bishops, ekpu from esan, Burke a white man and akubueze... but they didn't allow akubueze to have peace they have been on him since.


the only difference is that Benin priest have supported akubueze and condemned any ethnic discrimination against him

bloodofthelamb:
What then is the highest prayer?

the mass, have you ever been in one?

bloodofthelamb:
What then is the highest prayer?

the mass, have you ever been in one?

Originaligboman:
Nigerian Catholic bishops elect new president

https://www.nairaland.com/4363487/nigerian-catholic-bishops-elect-new

wow, I didn't follow the news...


let us pray for our bishops, and the new head of cbcn.


I was a bit surprised, didn't see bishop Obiora assuming that position so quickly... I remember when he was made bishop and less than 6 yrs later he was archbishop now he is President of cbcn...may his tenure be greatly blessed, may God grant him wisdom to lead ijn.

Originaligboman:
Very soon we will hear one Bishop complaining about rigging.... Lol

that doesn't happen in Bishop election in the Catholic Church.... it isn't rigged

myproperty:
The good thing is that you agree on the murder orchestrated by the catholic church. For the ones by protestants please tells us about it if any. I have talked about the catholic own. Be bold and truthful enough to talk about the protestant own if you are not lying.

sorry dear I never agreed the Catholic Church killed anyone, in fact you provided two names one was killed by the state the other was murdered by Protestants.


have you read how you Protestants murdered sir Thomas More and Bishop Fisher?

rickyrex:
be proud of what you have. Even thou my church will not take me to heaven. Am proud to be a catholic

I am Catholic, my Church was founded by Christ as his mystical body and bride, it is the means he uses to take me to heaven

I'm surprised you think the Church won't take you to heaven

Themandator:
The great commission started after the death of Christ, with the release of the holy spirit on the day of Pentecost....Acts 1:8 ..., That was when Christianity was born as Pentecostals. ...People who have received the baptism of the Holy Spirit.


The statement of Jesus wasn't address to Peter as a prophecy hinge on him for the name Peter itself is not rock but stone. And there was no prophecy anywhere for telling of any Peter, being the bedrock of the church. ..... Everything about Jesus was preceded by prophecies from the prophets of old until John the Baptist.... Never was there a prophecy concerning Peter.


When Jesus made his statement about the rock , he was referring to himself as he is the only rock rejected that became the main rock

so who was given the keys in Matthew 16?
a. Jesus
b.Peter

bloodofthelamb:
An organisation that has lead many astray through another gospel for 2000yrs. Thank God for Martin Luther, whom He used to bring back the true gospel of grace.

and yet you are not a Lutheran, you are among those who Luther condemned with anathema, and excommunicated and declared to be the enemies of Christ.

read up Luther and Zwingli

sirlop:
Oga, your point doesn’t hold water. I don’t even know how to make you understand. Catholic Church follows the Canon law and it stipulates (as amended) that a priest can only be ordained Bishop of a particular diocese if he (the priest) has served in one way or the other in that Ecclesiastical province of which the diocese is under. Okpaleke never served in the OWERRI Ecclesiastical province in any capacity. Y then should he be picked? Had it been they even brought a Yoruba man or an Hausa man that has served, nobody would have objected. We have like 6 Bishop’s from Awka Diocese. Does it not ring a bell? Pls no insults try to be civil. I rest my case.

that is a lie, canon law doesn't state that, I have a copy of the code of canon law and it gives the pope the total freedom in the decision... in fact to reject the Popes choice or ordain who he didn't chose are grave canonical crimes.

your priests can forget about ever been ordained bishops... they have smeared themselves with poo.

sirlop:
They had to appoint someone that hasn’t served in the OWERRI Ecclesiastical province?

yes they can appoint from any province, the past bishop of Enugu was from Benin ecclesiastical province,.

bloodofthelamb:
It is a known truth that the Catholic faithful's pray to Mary more than God and his Son...

Your rosary contain more hail Mary than hail Jesus.
The organisation is built around Mary

and in your misinformation you think the rosary is the highest prayer of the Catholic Church abi?

bloodofthelamb:
An organisation that has lead many astray through another gospel for 2000yrs. Thank God for Martin Luther, whom He used to bring back the true gospel of grace.

and yet you are not a Lutheran, you are among those who Luther condemned with anathema, and excommunicated and declared to be the enemies of Christ.

read up Luther and Zwingli

mrvitalis:
You can't get to vertican without cardinal arinze

He decides who goes and who stays he is the pope eye in Nigeria

So the only option left was the media and protest

this is a lie
Arinze has long resigned from the Vatican, he is in retirement, the eye of the pope is the papal nuncio.


Arinze didn't even have a hand in this shit he had retired before all this wahala

osusuallstars:
after resigning, will he go back to his former diocese? or no longer a catholic priest/

he is a Bishop not just a priest, his resignation will be interpreted as maturity, I think he'll get a new diocese for now he is still a Bishop not going back to his old diocese

sirlop:
Appointment of okpalaeke as bishop of my diocese followed an unprecedented error of the first order. First n foremost, the canon law which stipulates the process of appointment of bishops was recklessly abandoned by the awka link in the vatican as against the normal process. Our late bishop Most Rev Dr Victor Adibe Chikwe submitted names of three people which was a norm all Catholic bishop follow every yr. It is from this list that is submitted that The vatican chooses one person incase by virtue of death or retirement of a substantive bishop. In this list, a new yr list nullifies that submitted the previous yrs. Okpalaeke's name was never in the list, it took Vatican 2yrs n two months to smuggle okpalaeke's name into the list. Before this, Okpalaeke had never worked in ahiara dioces either as a seminarian or as a priest. He had never worked in owerri ecclesiastical province where ahiara diocese falls in, the canon law stipulates that a bishop should come within the province or the person must have worked within the province as a seminarian or as a priest. The question is, who smuggled okpalaeke’? Ahiara priests n lay faithful are saying anybody within the province of owerri cud be our bishop but not somebody from far away awka province. Owerri province is made up of Abia state n imo state. Imo has 4dioceses n abia two dioceses which add up to 6dioceses within owerri ecclesiatical province. Due process was not folllowed in okpalaeke's appointment. This has being going in many dioceses. It happened in benin awka province was appointed as bishop, it happened in aba diocese when it was created out of umuahia dioces awka man was appointed bishop, it happened in okigwe dioces, awka man was appointed bishop, it happened in niger state, awka man was appointed. The question is wat is in awka province that other provinces don’t have? The ahiara hypocrisy of appointment has exposed the rot in the system over the yrs n It has oppened the eyes of the Vatican on the politics in the church over the yrs. Ahiara has the highest number of priests in Nigeria n africa if numerical strength is measured diocese by dioces. It is on record that 2 in every 3families in ahiara has one priest. I hav a friend whose two brothers r priests. Ahiara has over 200 priests who are phd holders in canon laws, some are professors in many universities. Two professors in futo are rev fathers from ahiara diocese. Why should some forces play games thinkn ahiara priests and laity r fools

there was no errors.

the list is usually submitted and the Vatican can chose to use it or not, depending on how qualified the listed people are, the papal nuncio recommendations and if those priest have petitions against them already.

this are reasons they got dropped and someone else appointed in their place.