₦airaland Forum

frosbel2:
I AM LOST ? So says the religious BIGOT

I am not defending African tradition even though they had better morals in those days compared to these days, the era of your HOLY Christianity.

The bottom line is that there is ONE GOD and only him deserves worship, as Jesus said.

"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one " - Deuteronomy 6:4

"They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things ( JESUS included ) rather than the Creator ( ALMIGHTY GOD ) --who is forever praised. Amen" - Romans 1:25

Besides ;

-Your CROSS is PAGAN
-The Virgin birth is PAGAN
-Your holidays are all PAGAN ( Sunday, Christmas, Easter etc )
-The Trinity is PAGAN
-Your communion is PAGAN
-The Concept of a temple where you go to worship every SUNday is PAGAM

PAGAN religion, that's what Christianity is.

frosbel I'll like a discussion with you... a discussion not an argument... even if we all agree to disagree.

do you still believe in God, what about Jesus? do you still hold to the new testament books? I saw you quoted Romans, are you now a Jew or just jew-ish?


I know once said you'll lose your earlier Protestant faith and go toward agnosticism and for that reason you may not wish to discuss with me...if that is the case it's alright... but I'll be happy if you did decide to have the discussion.

zeusdgrt:
Sorry I attend to one mumu at a time,just stay for line ur turn go reach.pls be patientnAgbaya!

oga calm down, you are getting such response because your post didn't even address the topic you just went off attacking the messenger and forgot the message.

solite3:
I had to bring in Ephesians to clear up what Paul really meant.

2 Corinthians 3:6[b] Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament;[/b] not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Did Paul mean that only few Christians are ministers of new covenant or all Christians are ministers of the new covenant? That is not the case.

1 Corinthians 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 1 Corinthians 7:20 Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.


2 Corinthians 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;


These verses reveals that All Christians are called into the ministry but in different ways.
But which ministry that of the old covenant or new? 2 for 3:6 certainly answers that.

Of cos there are leaders in the church but everyone is a minister. Not every minister is a leader but all are priests and ministers.

you can argue this all you like, that doesn't disturb my point.


Paul never calls every Christian a ἱερουργοῦντα which is one who officiate worship as a priest.

your argument above doesn't even address my point.


all Christians render diakonia I.e service but not all render hierourgeo

zeusdgrt:
Make the pope go site own for toilet,I Dont even know y dem dey give dis man relevance and see as e dey form spiritual and holy with towel wen e take cover e head.If u Dont believe in Jesus as the only way not tru Mary then u are on ur own,is clearly stated in the bible "those comes to the father must come tru me"

that is not a towel on his head, that is his cassock, the wind blew the cassock and the cape of the cassock flew over his head.

there is nothing wrong with breeze blowing a cloth and even if it were a towel which it isn't, there is nothing wrong with that.


the Pope isn't given relevance, he has relevance, he is in an office that is relevant.

do you think it is easy to be Bishop to 1.2 billion Catholics, head of state of the Vatican, in fact his office the papacy is pretty much the single most important contributor to Western civilization. his church is the single largest religious provider of education, health care, orphanage, and charity in general...

he doesn't need to form spiritual, or relevance, these are just there.

brocab:
[color=#000099]We are on different roads here, because the apostles quoted scripture, now written in what we call the bible, you believe these are unwritten Words?

if you think they quoted scriptures all you need to do is show me where st Paul quoted from

1 Cor 2:9,
"but just as it is written,'THINGS WHICH EYE
HAS NOT SEEN AND EAR HAS NOT HEARD, AND
which HAVE NOT ENTERED THE HEART OF MAN,
ALL THAT GOD HAS PREPARED FOR THOSE WHO
LOVE HIM.'
do you know anywhere where that was written?
do you know anywhere the name James and jambre
quoted in 2tim 3:8 where given?

These Words didn't come from man, they came from God-this is why we call it the Word of God.
[color=#000099]So you are saying it was the Catholic Church that was built upon the Judaism's, the same Pharisees that Jesus argued against, every time the Pharisees followed the traditions of men, rather then they followed the traditions of God.

you seem confused

nobody is talking about thing that came from men, we are talking about the word of God which the Bible says is given to us through written from and unwritten form.

no sir I didn't say the Catholic Church was built on Judaism, I said it was began when Jesus died, commissioned at his ascension and empowered at Pentecost

Now I understand-and the Church stays the same, and because the Pharisees had crucified Jesus on Roman soil, the Church stood its ground claiming your Church is the foundation of Christ..Am I right?

sorry but this is gibberish.

solite3:
really Paul wasn't calling the whole church fellow ministers? I read it in context. Paul wasn't implying what you wrote .
The church where not 'merely' epistles you were erroneously taught.

Ephesians 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:


You see that every believer is given grace according to their gift for the work of the ministry.

you have jumped from Corinthians to Ephesians

and he gave some, apostles; and some,
prophets; and some, evangelists; and some,
pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work
of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of
Christ:


this is talking about the different gifts found in the body of Christ these gift which must be used in perfecting the saints, in ministry and for edification


these are the list of gifts in the Church and where they should be channeled into. this nowhere teaches that everybody is now a minister. and certainly does not say everyone is a ἱερουργοῦντα ministerial priest.


in case you still don't know those who minister over the Church. then read up.



therefore, I exhort the elders among you, as your
fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ,
and a partaker also of the glory that is to be
revealed, shepherd the flock of God among you,
exercising oversight not under compulsion, but
voluntarily, according to the will of God; and not for
sordid gain, but with eagerness; nor yet as lording
it over those allotted to your charge, but proving to
be examples to the flock.
1 Peter 5:1...

these are the people who exercise authority and ministry over the kingdom of priests.

Syncan:
This isn't simple to agree with on face value. It looks more like an opening statement, am sure there'll be questions...especially in our days with so much "disorderliness" in nature.

yeah, it looks difficult to believe but I can actually take it. everything is under the power of the Almighty even though it all seem scattered.

Syncan:
Amen Amen. I guess that's why the question "Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and yet you still don't know ..."

exactly, Jesus is pretty much the icon of his father, the very son of his father.... that is why the question of Philip sounded funny and Jesus had to ask how come you have been with me and you are still asking about my dad?

the last 3 popes have been on repeat about this topic in almost all their encyclical... it is like an underlying theme in their works.

babestell:
I am sure there is a simpler way to write this. I think i have joined the low attention span generation

don't mind me oh, I am very lazy to summarize.... besides these are great spiritual classics, they are somehow wholesome.


don't worry I'll try to summarize the next one, if just for you.

brocab:
[r=#000099]Where was the Catholic Church found in the Old Testament? I am sure it was part of a pagan temple, and still is to my knowledge.

in case you don't know the old testament is Judaism, the Church of Jesus that is the Catholic Church was founded on the death of Jesus, commissioned at his ascension and empowered at Pentecost. it is the new testament Church we are talking about.

Trusting in the reliable people is trusting in God-these people didn't preach the traditions of men, they preached Jesus..
Don't you understand? The Word of God is all about Jesus, man didn't preach other then Him-Peter said: silver and Gold I do not have, but in the name of Jesus stand up and walk-and how do I know this-its written in the bible, Jesus quoted scriptures, when He had to deal with the Pharisees, and the people in genal.

and that Very word of God is contained in the unwritten tradition given to the Church

The Torah is foundational to Judaism, and Jesus quoted it often. The first examples below come from the story of Jesus being tempted by Satan out in the desert. Jesus responds to each temptation by quoting from the Torah, showing the supreme value he placed on it for life, thought and behavior.
[color=#006600]{Have you noticed Jesus quoted scripture-from the Torah which of cause is written in the bible-Each time Jesus begins “You have heard that it was said…” and contrasts it with “…but I say.” He is not contradicting the Torah, about which he would have said, “It is written.” The phrase “You have heard that it was said” referred to popular understandings of the Torah—the way it was understood and applied, the way people learned it from their parents and teachers, the way it was repeated at the watering trough and the back alleys and the shoemaker’s shop; He quoted the Torah just it is written in the bible}
(Matthew 4:4, Luke 4:4) But he answered, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”
(Deuteronomy 8:3) And he humbled you and let you hunger and fed you with manna, which you did not know, nor did your fathers know, that he might make you know that man does not live by bread alone, but man lives by every word that comes from the mouth of the Lord.

that that same Bible showed us that the apostles referred to non biblical tradition of the Jews.

1 Cor 2:9,
"but just as it is written,'THINGS WHICH EYE
HAS NOT SEEN AND EAR HAS NOT HEARD, AND
which HAVE NOT ENTERED THE HEART OF MAN,
ALL THAT GOD HAS PREPARED FOR THOSE WHO
LOVE HIM.'

do you know anywhere where that was written?



do you know anywhere the name James and jambre quoted in 2tim 3:8 where given?


the the passages alluded to here?
Jude 4,6,13,14–15, 2 Peter 2:4;
3:13,

but that doesn't even concern my point.


the issue is clear the new testament expressly commands Christians to hold on firmly to the unwritten traditions.

brocab:
To be honest-If this wisdom you say is not in the bible alone, then it isn't God's wisdom.

the Bible doesn't teach that the word of God is confined to the Bible alone. that is a tradition of men invented by Martin Luther.

the Bible says the word of God comes down to us in two form, the written word AKA the Bible and the unwritten apostolic tradition, both are given to and preserved in the Church.

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions
which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our
epistle.


And the things you have heard me say in the
presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable
people
who will also be qualified to teach others. 2 Tim 2:2.

And also I have never had God speak to me, through another way, other then the written Word of God..

that is because you have confined him to the written word even though the Bible says you must also hold the unwritten tradition.

When I preach, I preach doctrine, preaching without the Word of God isn't preaching Him. The righteousness of God is His Word-Jesus said give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, which is the coin, and give back to God what belongs to God-which is His Word-I preach His Word..
It would be bible bashing-if I didn't know the Word of God..I would be a dead branch without the living vine..

Jesus is the Word AKA logos in Greek of God. and the revelation he gave us AKA rhema is found in the written Bible and the unwritten tradition.

I know the word because I have received it fully just as the Bible says I should from both the written word and the unwritten tradition, and when I teach doctrine, I happily quote the Bible and also quote the testimony of the early Christians who received the unwritten tradition and what has always been held in the Church and they don't contradict, they complement.

brocab:
[=#000099]Than this proves you haven't received the Holy spirit to know the Word of God full hearten-theirs no such thing as a lukewarm Christian, these other unwritten words you claim to hold-are the traditions of men-more then they are of God, this is clearly seen throughout the Catholic Church.

see how you have side stepped the clear words of scripture just because you want to follow sola scriptura a doctrine of men invented by Martin Luther?

the Bible says the apostolic unwritten tradition are to be held and informed us that it is passed down in the Church. but of course you prefer the sola Bible that isn't taught in the Bible but invented by Martin Luther.

{2 Timothy 2:2}[/color] Is about teaching the traditions of God, not the traditions of men, you are not sure about-everything we preach is written in the Word of God-Jesus said: test the Spirit.
{2 Timothy 3:16} All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness..
We preach what we read-If it isn't written in the Word of God-then it's a sinners lie..
{2 Corinthians 11:3-4} I am afraid, however, that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may be led astray from your simple and pure devotion to Christ.
For if someone comes and proclaims a Jesus other than the One we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit than the One you received, or a different gospel than the one you accepted, you put up with it way too easily.
Meaning if someone comes to me and preaches another gospel that doesn't line up with the Word of God, Uben then it's a lie..

the Bible says the apostolic unwritten tradition are there given to the Church, you are the one who claims that they don't line up with scripture and that isn't correct.


the apostolic unwritten tradition and the written tradition comes from the same source that is-the apostles and both are preserved and rightly taught in the Church the apostles established, they don't contradict each other, they complement each other.

brocab:
"Why? What can you learn from pdozie-when you know you have all the answers? I was only protecting someone I enjoy so much, I actually admire your understanding? Uben we have been having our disagreements forever, and if it takes forevermore, then let it be forever..
And I am sure you feel the same way about me..

I have never claimed to be all knowing, I don't have answers for everything.


brocab, I am not interested in disagreements that take forever, I don't enjoy people who scoff... I am only interested in people who want to truly get the truth of a disagreement not someone who copies and paste, side step and then all what not just so as not to face the truth. Most times I discuss here on nairaland because of those who years from now may come across this thread.

AkunnaTochi:
Oga, he doesn't claim to know all the answers and I sincerely think that is the difference between you and him.
Nobody is so knowledgeable that he needs knowledge no more.
You are obviously unhappy with Pdozie for applauding Uben and Jolliano and so you resorted to claiming a relationship that doesn't even exist to mask your displeasure.
You lost the argument, bro.
It ended even before it started.
Give it up.

Uben, you remain a true child of our Holy Mother - the Church. Pax vobis.

et cum spiritu tuo

PastorOluT:
Hmm, quoting me after almost 4years? I left the thread then cos I know u guys are a lost case and would not disturb n waste my time over nothing.

NB Tho I might oblige u if u open a new thread and we thrash one question at a time, I mean one question at a time. This thread had long lost its course. If not please don't quote me again

actually you promised on the thread that you'll be back to answer those questions, that is why you were given time.... only now you have changed your story.


no wahala, i may very well create another thread when I have the time... but that doesn't excuse you from answering the questions you earlier promised to answer here.

brocab:
Are you pushing for a miracle, that will take some praying-expecting the Catholic's to answer the truth for you-they are not trained to be honest, even the priest lie, the Pope lies calling himself god on earth, these Catholic's haven't the slightest idea 'what is truth.

Mr judge, you just tagged Catholics as liars, I'm sure that made you feel a bit more righteous uh?

How long has it been bro, since we have worked-spreading the gospel to the lost souls across the nations, and still God works in us, given us strength to come up against our enemies everyday..
God say's love them-as He has loved us, this doesn't mean the Catholic's actually believe this is true.

see how you guys pat each other on the back as you defend a tradition of men invented by Martin Luther.

brocab:
You are up in arms today Uben-what's going on, have you found a subject you like?
And plus wasn't there 613 laws to be counted for, but when Christ came He gave us two laws, to go by-Love God with all your heart mind and soul, and the second love your neighbour as yourself..
It doesn't matter how many commandments were written after the 10 commandments, what matters God wrote them on stone.
And besides had you noticed even our own laws are all written down..

actually your example only proves my points. some laws were written on tablets others weren't.

the summary of our laws were written down but the Bible clearly tells us that the Christian doctrine in found both in the Bible and in unwritten tradition so that we may all know it and not go around on the Bible alone.

solite3:
And Paul said all christians are ministers with him.

You are unaware that all Christians are ministering priest or whatever name you give it
Only that they minister in different ways.
2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Paul didn't say every one was a minister he was talking about himself and those who were his co-ministers as minister of the new testament not the whole Church, read what he wrote he was talking using we, ourselves to refer to the himself and his co-ministers and used "you" to refer to the Church in Corinth
2 cor 3 from vs 1


Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or
need we, as some others, epistles of
commendation to you, or letters of commendation
from you?
Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known
and read of all men:
Forasmuch as you are manifestly declared to be
the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not
with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not
in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the
heart.
And such trust have we through Christ to God-
ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think
any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of
God;
Who also hath made us able ministers of the
new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit:
for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.


he clearly says they that is the apostles and co are the ministers while the Church is merely the epistle.


read the Bible in context.

the word ἱερουργοῦντα wasn't even used in that passage.

coputa:
is gelegele an Edo name,what does if means in Edo.why do the Itsekiri's wait until now to tell the world the real name of the community.OKERENKOKO is the real name

yes gelegele is Edo, it means truly truly, there is even an Edo song like that.


these issues are not new, the ijaws just enjoy pushing for trouble, the issue was already brought before the supreme court and the verdict was given it is okerenghigo, this is the same was the gelegele case was settled in court decades ago, because the ijaws now enjoy militancy they want to push their guns in everyone faces.

you guys should obey the law and stop looking for trouble trying to grab lands.

brocab:
Then prove it to us-where else do we find the written Word of God-if He isn't in the bible only.

the written word is in the Bible the unwritten which we too must hold is what I am talking about and

you can find it here.

And the things you have heard me say in the
presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable people
who will also be qualified to teach others. 2 Tim 2:2.


it was given to the Church to be passed down from generation to generation, and by Church mean the only Church that goes back to the time of the apostles, it is found in the testimony of the early Christians.

brocab:
[cor=#000099]While God was speaking to Moses was not the 10 Commandments written on tablets of stone?[/color]

there were another 600 laws which God gave moses and they weren't written on the tablets of stone, they only got put down later.

solite3:
. What the apostles teach through words are what they penned down.

where is this written?

Any tradition that goes against what the apostles preached must be thrown out.
Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

why do you imagine that apostolic tradition will contradict apostolic writing?

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

You see that it is the scripture that is inspired.
Paul said we shouldn't think of men above what has been written meaning a christian conduct should be guided by what is written.
1 Corinthians 4:6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that
which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.


Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

1. the time Timothy was written it wasn't considered scripture, it was just a letter Paul wrote.
2. nor was Corinthian considered scripture either.
3. the warnings in revelation concerns the book of revelation only

you need to read you Bible more.

The Traditions of the early church is what is written in their epistle.


2 Thessalonians 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.


But catholism tries to exalt her traditions above the epistles of the apostles.

nowhere is it written that the apostolic tradition were all put in the epistles, in fact that is a lie, if it was true Paul wouldn't have wrote in 2 Thessalonians 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

he knew clearly that the apostolic teaching/tradition came in two forms both written and unwritten. in fact just as the written word was kept so too was the unwritten tradition kept and preserved in the Church, in fact the Bible tells us so.

And the things you have heard me say in the
presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable people
who will also be qualified to teach others. 2 Tim 2:2.

that shows the importance of those unwritten tradition because the apostle explicitly commanded that they must be kept and held on to and passed down from generation to generation.

that is why the ancient Churches are unique because they hold the word of God as the Bible says they should be held, both the written and the unwritten tradition. they go back and check the writings and practices of the early Christians and what has been passed down from them.

so that every belief in the Church is traced to the apostles through their written teachings and the unwritten ones they committed to the Church.

that is why the Bible does not teach that scripture is the sole rule of faith, that is why the early Christians never believed that the Bible was the sole rule of faith, in fact that idea of sola scriptura is a heresy invented by Martin Luther 1500years after the apostles.

you are following a doctrine invented by Martin Luther, tradition of men.

removetheturban:
You can be the decider. What do you think?

of course, I think the number one guys I'll say are in Babylon the great is the watch tower.

how is that?

coputa:
Itsekiri's are the reasons warri is not moving forward,they cry wolves when there's none.OKERENKOKO is the real name,I worked in that community,it's an ijaw community.There's nothing like OKERENKIGHO,the Itsekiri's are mischievous.

actually have you checked any old map to see the name of that community?

that you worked there doesn't make you a historian for the place nor does it make you a native.

ijaws in the SS are known for land grabbing, they flood places near their ancestral lands and take over the next community that isn't theirs.


there is another case on ground in gelegele which the ijaws renamed as gelegelegbene all in an effort to grab lands.

this isn't right,

Doerstech:
That's a gold scripture but you need the Holy Spirit to interpret the word .

so your personal holy spirit told you that the poor are excluded from tithe after the Bible says the poor are part of those who receive tithe?


if it is so, then that your spirit is evil spirit.

solite3:
a priest is a priest nothing like ministering priest and ordinary priest in the new testament.

sorry the Bible proves you wrong.

there is a kingdom of priest and a ministerial priest. the ministerial priest minister to the kingdom of priest.

Israel was a kingdom of priest the sons of Aaron were the ministerial priests.

the Church is also a kingdom of priests and the apostle Paul tells us there are ministerial priest and he is one of them.

solite3:
KJV incorrect? Yea to every heretic KJV is always incorrect.
Paul didn't refer to himself as a ministering priest.

so you think Paul wrote the KJV? lol.

yes in this passage your KJV is wrong , Paul wrote ἱερουργοῦντα and it is rightly translated as to officiate as a priest. I.e a ministerial priesthood.



unless you prefer King James to apostle Paul.