₦airaland Forum

hopefulLandlord:
where is the list in question? don't throw an entire article at me

BTW Conservapedia is a Christian fundamentalist website, I expect someone who's debated atheists over and over to be aware of that already; infact we've thrown the website into the trashcan years back and the likes of Dalaman, Kingebukasblog winner01, Raphiemontella etc know this

i do not stereotype, that is an evidence on your side bro. i am aware is a christian website but it is also linked to references you can not discard all entirely . we should not be arguing in circle. check the links , argue it over and see were it flaws. do not hide under the canopy of calling it a Christian website. there are references in it.

hopefulLandlord:
I've not made any claim of my own, don't put words in my mouth

what exactly would the list you're talking about show?

To avoid stereotyping go through this link. http://www.conservapedia.com/Atheism_and_suicide.

hopefulLandlord:
and that list would show what exactly? and what stops the claimant from just saying this instead of the insulting innuendo he gave? be objective for once

Are you claiming that there is no evidence to support that the prominent atheist went on suicide mission due to lack of God evidence.?

hopefulLandlord:
he's not asking for names, he's asking for stats that buttress(es) your point, big difference!. The onus is on you, the claimant, to provide it and I'm disappointed Vaxx actually supported this flawed line of reasoning

where on earth, will he get the stats? How many people are willing to identity themselves as an atheist. And I do not think postmortem can also indicate atheism as the cause of the death. The only evidence the dude can use is the list of prominent people that are actually atheist(well known)and this llist is available online.

Ronpet777:
I am not speaking with kids I suppose. U want me to come here with names of those who were suicidal or Wot? When u can simply just research.

i know you are being sarcastic when bottle self praise the atheist for their brilliance. I like the way you dance along. Only few of them sees their error on time and some are just unnecessary arrogant..... I do not see how a well versed religious fellow with general knowledge will look stupid when engaging the atheist. Most of the religious guys that fall to their intelligence possess little knowledge of their own religion and likewise general knowledge.

Even a happy life cannot be without a measure of sadness and pain, the word happy will loose its meaning if it were not balance by sorrow, sadness and pains. it is far better to take things as they come. imagine a 365 days of raining without sun or a day without night. i bet you will not live in such a terrible situation. every situation in life is for us to experience.everything in life work according to the law of opposite. we experience , learn and move forward.

Faxole:
The same way atheism could lead to genocide, an adherence to religion could also lead to genocide. More people have been murdered in the name of religion throughout history than all the deaths in the regimes of Stalin and Mao combined.

There are inherently good and bad aspects to every belief system. What you do as a result of the belief system is what's more important.

there is nothing wrong with religion, it is the war of ideas that needs peace.. Humanity must learn to communicate via language (with rationality) and not by emotional or physical violence so that religions reasons will not be use for non religions purpose. All of the world religions started as a means to transcendence and identification of purpose. every human on earth has a purpose, which directly means every human has a religion. we are not robot or lower conscious animal . we are created with self awareness. But the original systems of identify this purpose which is religion became politicized, they became less about spiritual development, and more about control. The intimate relationship between created and creator was superseded by selfish interest.. i believe all religion still have something that has survive which is closer to the original system. And i also believe there is no unbeliever anywhere. it is our believe system that differ.

urahara:
What are your reasons for believing in god?

What are your reasons for not believing in GOD?

ABBkelvin:
There's nothing like justice, that's just society configuration after millions of behavioral evolution. I can see you are still operating in the realm of what should be right or how things are meant to be. That's where you will always be wrong, you're just a mere human that live and die, that's the end. So if you can't answer any of my question, feel free to revel in you sheer intelligence that will stop you from dying and in turns makes you live forever. Thanks

you are committing what is term as loaded question fallacy. bye . i mean it this time

ABBkelvin:
boy stop proving that you are smart. I asked a genuine question. Everything doesn't start or end with logic, we only use logic to interpret and prove what we fully understood. If you can't reason above average intelligence stop quoting me.

I will ask you this question and I want to see how vast you are logically; Why am I existing as a human being? Proof logically

Go thru this link.justice is done to your question. only read my quote, forget about the rest. https://www.nairaland.com/4305168/what-purpose-earth-worth-reading. you will never learn new things until you begin to accept you are wrong.

ABBkelvin:
My question still stand, if you can't answer my question leave it alone. I don't have time to engage you in meaningless argument

Your question if faulty and illogical. and i am correcting you on it. this is a public forum,your question itself is illogical , how will you get a logical answer. i think you need to grow in your atheism. think deep before asking question next time. the guy answering you did not realized it. anyway bye bye.

ABBkelvin:
That's your opinion not mine. My question still stand

Then it is illogical, No good student willing to learn will ask for a purpose of a device without learning what the device is meant to do . for example what is computer will answer its purpose, i do not need to ask what is the purpose of a computer when i do not know what it is. it will be very unintelligent to do so.

ABBkelvin:
The question is meant for theist not atheist.

then your best question should have been what is GOD?

ABBkelvin:
Answer this question and I will believe in God and religion; what is God purpose for existing?
@ ronpet777

this is a faulty question and it is also illogical particularly for anyone who does not believe in GOD existence

butterflyl1on:
It does not. But trust some to want to "force" it to be via physical speech. You are a traditionalist vaxx I am sure sometimes things are communicated to you via revelations an dreams. Or you even find yourself holding conversations in your dream.

most every one had in one way or the other communicate via speech thru dream. Since bible is silent on the mode of communication. It will be impossible to validate which means they use..... If you claim it is telepathy, I agree with you. But do not claim it is thru speech.....it will birth another questions

Buterfly1ion can be right , animal and human can communicate telepathically. Animal gets your intentions, emotions, images, or thoughts behind the words just like growing human baby. even if the words themselves are not totally understood. They can not make proper speech like human because their orgarns do not support it.....The bible do not record what means of communication exist between eve and serpent. Maybe it is speech like or telepathy means. No one knows. Unless you knows ? Then we can then ask what language? Heavenly or earthly? But since nothing like that. butterflyl1on may logically claim that communication exist between eve and serpent.


I will like to know if bible specifically indicate the mode of the communication?

akeba:
Hi, sorry, I don't know what you mean by IUN.

Feel free to check up the genuineness and the ranking (both local and global) of BNU online.

international university network, these body allow member to transferr or complete some module in any of their partner university ....

Is the university part of IUN?

in ctitical thinking, making a choice means to know two things in depth and prefer one. And in this particular case, most people only know one. In other words, Christianity was not a choice, that was the only one they knew and they took it and likewise isalm. Anybody who is to make a choice today must know the two and say I prefer this. Majority of the Muslim population today do not go outside the Quran. For me to choose, I have to know Islam and Christianity beyond what I hear from their evangelist or the media.

Let me give you an example, when Christianity came to Africa, they were preaching in the market and in all open places, the people listing to these Christians did not even have indepth knowledge of their own culture and religion.and with a new idea, people are less to think critical about it . they know little of their culture and religion. But these people who did not understand their own religion have learn a lot from christanity , so they choose it in prefrence to their own religion . without making a choice ,They just follow blindly.

If i am to give advice, i will ask you as an induvidual to understand your religion or believe first before you can compare it with others..... For example in christanity,they say, God created Adam and Eve and He asked them to be naked. So I am asking the chtistains suppose Adam and Eve did not disobey God, we will still be going naked? and to the Muslim , why should I recite prayer in Arabic when I can comfortably use my dialect?

dnexteinstein:
Those countries you mentioned are actually feigning liberalism for the porpose of securing western patronage.

it is not about western patronage, it is purposely for their own self development. they are progressing.

The good thing about scientific theory is that it provide an avenue to falsified itself. that is why some scientist are not comfortable with evolution theory today. so do not also treat creationist ideology as scientific. if you must do so, you should also provide how it can be falsified like scientific theory.

butterflyl1on:
lol I think that's for you to find out. Perhaps not all herbivores can be drawn to meat. If you wish to train your Ram you can start by giving it cooked meat and then mixing cooked with raw then you switch fully to raw eventually.

It is possible though to train

i just love experiment.

butterflyl1on:
You asked if herbivores can eat meat.

Here is a video of a deer


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrH46p1I3UA

can i trained my ram?

budaatum:
This is why I like you sometimes, that science bit of you! Of course one lion is not enough to prove that lions can exist on a diet of grass. In fact, only a fool will present one lion as proof of that fact. Then it turns out the actual lion was not only fed grass, as was initially implied, but was also fed foods that gave it essential minerals that it would have become severely ill if it hadn't had them at all. Then it turns out the poor lion died at an abnormally young age of 9 years when the age of properly fed lions in captivity is 25-30 years!

If anything, the lesson learnt from Tyke the Lion is, don't feed your lions grass alone!



You are worth reading sometimes. Do me a favour, edit your posts for clarity. It will make you worth reading even more.

lol , DO you wanner start domesticating lion

budaatum:
I don't have the unqualified faith you have in vaxx, however, he ended the piece you quoted with a get out clause!


So how can you claim "case closed"?



Vaxx, perhaps you want to explain what you meant there?

simple, it is not enough to base fact of a study when making research on a single truth. the population size is just one out of numerous lion. but lets take it this way, the test can also be run on many lions, the story also talk about how the family adopt baby when they pay little tyke parent a visit. but was silent on that path. so the only evidence we have now is little tyke. and i think it is not rich enough. anyway little tyke story flawed scientific fact , but of what other lions too.

can anybody answer how little tyke survive without eating meat? the grass issue is debatable, one hour of tall grass consumption is not enough evidence. and my second question, can herbivorous animal be trained to eat meat ?

butterflyl1on:
Hi vaxx so what's your take? At least you can be honest unlike some persons I know here.

why do you quote the clown above me. interested people willing to know the story will read it themselves. the story actually flawed science that state obligate carnivores can not survive without meat because they will not be able to derive some certain essential compound like amino acid which will help them grow big. but little tyke grows big. wonderful .i will like to also know if herbivorous animal can be trained on how to eat meat? well, i do not think little tyke story alone is enough.

budaatum:
Readers required please

The True Story of a Gentle Vegetarian Lioness (Quest Books) by Georges H. Westbeau in pdf format download

interesting story. just finished reading.

Take the document to any language department of any public university to do the translation for you or better still visit German embassy if it is official document. it will cost you a token

hopefulLandlord:
I did say I only glanced through the posts though so forgive me if I missed some important parts due to being caught up in other things

I do agree with most of your points but the question remains, how do you "reform"? how do you convince the Muslims to take a Reformation of the final message of the creator of the universe who's adherents think their eternal salvation actually depends on how literal they take it?

Islam is so against Reformation that I see impossibility in trying to reform it; Christianity is a different kind of belief as they have a Messiah who preached that they should be a doormat and Christianity comes from the name of that Messiah, This made it easy for them to change much more easily with time; Judaism went through a long Reformation and cherry picked their way into it

But for islam, I honestly don't see this happening with Muslims killing Muslims for not being true Muslims let alone other faith and the fact that their holy book actually encourages the killing Muslims when read literally than the killed

educate me(us) on how Reformation of islam should go

if jews can be reformed, what is stoping islam. Jews use to be like islam before. What is going to be change is how the muslim think and not how islam is spell in the literature. If the Muslim are reformed, Islam will be reformed. We are human being, so we can always progress. This is happening in UAE and Qatar..... Alcohol is allowedl but you will pay tax .it is a gradual process, they will get there.

The infallibility of the quraan must be rejected first. after all the quran was composed long after Muhammad death by his companions who memorized the literature by heart. something maybe missing or something must have been added. the Muslim world should take a critical look on it it. and again most Muslims do not really know too much about Islam. They were born into Muslim families, so being Muslim is a lot like a birth identity for them. And when you criticize Islam or a problematic verse in the Quran, or joke about Muhammad, they take it personally as an attack on them, on their identity.so with this fact in mind, people who will start the reformation must have Muslim identity so that the Muslim can feel a sense of belonging.and they will know you are not talking about them as people but their set of ideas and believe. the approach should be productive honest and responsible and not the type martins is advocating.

hopefulLandlord:
vaxx, I see you arguing for the clear differentiation while Martinez19 disagrees

I feel both of you are saying the same thing from a different perspective although (TBF) I just glanced pasts your various posts here

I do agree with both your viewpoints but I'd like to add as someone who's witnessed the worst and (probably)the best Muslims have to offer; I'm of the opinion that the best way to judge a religion - if there's any such way - are by the actions of its extremists especially if the extremists are more vocal

I say by its extremist as in literalist, someone who takes the book straight as it is not someone who pulls "interpretations"

A Christian extremist/literalist would probably be a "doormat" who takes slaves and protests against abortion

A Muslim extremist would probably try to kill anyone who doesn't share his idea of god/religion

This is where it gets interesting, A Christian extremist would most likely act the same way whether they're in the minority or majority BUT for the Muslim extremist, they play a cunning game of getting into foreign lands give appearance of being a moderate, give birth to children, try to get as many extremists as he can into the country he's in till they have good numbers and then shit starts hitting the fan; they start fighting for "minority rights" they want a say in governance, they act peacefully and the true citizen start arguing for them, after all they've been of good cheer so far until they become the "Majority" and suddenly nobody has any right, the extremist part of them then start showing and by then it would've been too late

I'll stop here for now and I hope I haven't veered badly off course

if you have honestly take your time to read my post, you will have seen where i advocate for reformation. what Islam needs its reformation. either extremist or liberal, we are human being that are subjected to changes. it is the ideology be it liberal or fundamentalist. in fact, i will argue that foreign policy sometime contribute to this menace by giving the fundamentalist a sense of pride to hold on to this ideology. for example the United States was hailing the Afghan militant as heroes for fighting against the Soviets.That was a good thing for America then because it favor them. do you know Bin Laden was among these fighters? and himself was a recipient of US funding and training. but unfortunately he went against them. In Islam the divinity and infallibility of the Quran is the only thing that every sect and denomination agrees on be it liberal or extremist. there may be difference in interpretation.. but it is acceptable that God himself wrote every letter, every punctuation mark of the quran and it is infallible.let me give you a joke...you can not touch the quran unless you have perform ablution or if you are doing mensuration (woman). this idea of infallibility should be reformed. just like most of the Christians and the Jews agree that their religious book is divinely inspired and not purely divine . there should be a way to be constructive and honest while dealing with this approach and not passing unpleasant remark on to a fellow human like you. it is dehumanizing. just the way some people have a different view on atheism. i believe every one has the right to freedom of thought and believe .

Martinez19:
I care about what's true and what's good. Please read my posts and stop giving me headache. I have pointed out the hypocrisy and unseriousness of moderates in my posts. If we are to be serious, liberal principles and Islam are like oil and water. Those countries aren't liberal. Do your findings, follow the news, check if modrates condemn terrorists group and read my posts.

Using identity as a Nigerian is different and not analogous to identity as a Muslim. The Nigerian constitution is not corrupt and evil and Nigerians, who live in Nigeria, abiding by it can't be considered evil for doing so. When Nigerians live their country, they are to abide peacefully with the constitution of the country that they are foreigners in. The doctrines of Islam are evil and to be called a Muslim, you must abide by these doctrines no matter where you find yourself. Please think deeply about this.

I will continue the argument when you yourself identify your flaws. You are the one talking about evil. It is not from me