₦airaland Forum

danvon:
Morality is religion different religions different morality. E.g in Calabar traditionalist killing twins Good not killing twins bad When Christianity dominated the people killing twins bad not killing twins good there's no stages involved it's simply a change of dominant religion

thank you sir.....i will only give you one example out of numerous example. in the old testament... the bases of morality falls on 10 commandment but in the new testament it was change and Jesus declare that love supersed law . even in the bible morality experience evolution

ScienceWatch:
Have you noticed that Atheists have nothing good to teach, that is why they mill around words such as God, Jesus, Bible etc to gain relevance through criticism and lame questions.

Why dont you be the exception Sir, and positively tell us what your religion of Atheism has to offer mankind?

I really want to learn more. Butterflyl1on, Vaxx and Kingebukasblog has won me over because they offer humanity tremendous value.
One can take their teachings and build a community, one can empower and change many things in ones life, one can proudly teach ones family the things they talk about with confidence and joy.

But the atheists offerings are scary. Please explain.

''Atheism is like a fake currency,it is good on the surface but it has no real value'' vaxx

danvon:
Wow impressive morality was created for survival of humanity,
Then I guess things like men raping women is surely a good thing since it helps produce more babies and continue human survival.
I love atheism

i am not an atheist....do you read my post......morality passes through evolutionary stages'' there use to be time when what you consider evil today were dully right....

PastorAIO:
Even my own anecdotal experience tells me that this is rubbish. When a new born baby comes back home from hospital, straight away you can tell it's unique personality. Some babies are quieter. Some make more noise and babble alot, others cry more, some laugh alot etc etc etc

The personality and the mind has begun to be establish from before birth. But in case you don't believe me you can look at clinical evidence by doctors and scientists.




https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-favorite-child/201010/personality-begins-birth

Many of the things that a pregnant mother feels, the baby also feels too. They share many hormones etc. If the mother does drugs the mental development of the child might be impaired. If the mother is surrounded by music which the baby can hear in the womb, the baby is more likely to be born with an ear for music.

you have given me about four mentions.....but i will only reply to this since i assume is the most relevant....

DO not confuse hormones or genetic transfer to knowledge.....knowledge is what we learn over time base on experience and practice.... so tell me how a toddler is knowledgeable? the idea to rationalize wrong and right is given by the society and not from the womb....

An extrovert parent may possibly give birth to extrovert child and vice versa . this is a biological factor and has nothing to do with knowledge. unless you are suggesting that a doctor can give birth to already made doctor? the only skills all baby can do is to cry, grasp and suck... every other thing is learn....depending on the genes transfer to the baby by his parent will determine how fast or quick the baby will assimilate .therefore personality function and cognitive are already decided by our generic heritage and biological factor.

''The brain itself has blank-slate-like properties (5). This phenomenon was studied most extensively for cortical cells that initially do not know what they are supposed to do but develop a rapport with neighboring cells, responding most strongly to those that stimulate them the most. This means that if a person were to lose a finger, the parts of the cortex that had represented that finger will likely start responding to input from another finger'' by David eagle an authority on biological science

i will adviceyou to read on from here.....

5 Kalisman, N., Silberberg, G., and Markram, H. (2005). The neocortical microcircuit as a tabula rasa. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 102, 880-885.

morality itself pass through evolutionary stage, the spread of human race all over the continent also shape what we term morality today, how those it begin ?..... survival was the major factor ... the strive for little resources (crop) birth writing system so that we can keep track of them , keeping our selfish desire in control birth army ,lastly the administration of the crops birth politics... this how society was form so that humanity can survive....

budaatum:
Read 3 times. Tried hard to disagree. Failed miserably. Well done!

thanks bro

PastorAIO:
The Moral instinct manifests as tendency to place Things and events and actions somewhere along a scale of values whereby The most preferred things are place at the top and are called Good or Ideal while the least valued things are placed at the bottom and are called bad or evil.


For example, Rape is an action. For some people it can be placed at the very bottom of the scale of values whereby it is the least desirable thing to do or to witness. On the other hand some other people can place it higher on the scale and even boast about how many women they would rape. They see it as a high value activity. For instinct when the Germans lost the WWII and the Russians approached Berlin, they went on a raping spree. They felt quite justified in doing so after all the things that the Nazis had done to them.

In both these cases there is a Moral Instinct, a ladder of values. However the difference between them is that they place the same events on different positions on the scale. Absolutely every human being is Moral, ie has the moral instinct. The only difference is that they arrange things on the ladder differently.

you do not answer my question? the bone of discussion is if baby are really born with moral instinct?.. am not asking you how moral instinct manifest....

Baby are born blank, meaning without knowledge or experience.... so how can a baby manifest an instinct he or she lack knowledge about? if you agree that baby can put good and evil on a scale of preferences, then you are suggesting that baby can rationalize. which will also mean they are aware of their physical environment.

this is not true. we are like animals, we are born naturally with survival and self-interest instinct only. that is why baby are naturally sell-fish but as we survive via the evolutionary process, our greater capacity for rational thought developed and It is by way of rational thought that we learn the concept of morality base on the society we find ourselves.....the same morality here birth culture and norms... what we accept objectively as way of life becomes our value. in Rome, it is believed that the left hand is the right place to put on engagement ring because it is close to the heart while in Germany, engagement rings are place on right hand.... so by what dalaman say, morality is derived from the society in which individual find themselves . developmental psychology says that our moral occur overtime, meaning we have to learn it and not born with it...

if there is anything baby are born with, i will argue and say it is xenophobic... fear of out groups as out group are generally competitors for scarce resources..

read this book, the secret lives of the brain by David Eagleman

PastorAIO:
Humans are born with a moral instinct. (I make a difference between morality and empathy, by the way, just so you know).

The exact moral code that is then articulated would depend on many other factors.

Moral instinct.... elucidate

PastorAIO:
U

I believe that what you're referring to here is Empathy. The natural human ability to feel what others are feeling. Even babies.

If you spank one baby in the presence of another they will both cry. The one that wasn't spanked may even cry more sef.

Are you suggesting babies are born with moral code?

i stop reading this epistle when it get to the point where the article state oduduwa father was unknown.....i realized the whole story is definitely going to be false. for your information ...oduduwa father was known and he is called lamurudu....

let igbo carry out scientific investigation to buttress their point and not just the baseless oral tradition....may be Israel government may even consider legalizing the igbo citizenship since most of them do not want to be part of Nigeria... ire oooo

this shows how Yoruba man play with abrahimic religion, either Islam or Christianity. it is just a word of mouth. A TRUE YORUBA man belongs to his root .......

frank317:
of course assumption differs from faith. I didnt say other wise, i said faith is based on assumptions. Faith does not give testing a chance. pls define Faith. From the christian perspective, Faith is evidence of things HOPED for. You just hope for it and claim u have evidence. Thats having faith based on assumption.


so how can i test your religious saying - God created the world? isnt it by questioning it? I questioned it and find out your belief is filled with nothing but assumption


good


oga many Christians think you will go to hell for being a pagan. Ask butterflylion if u will go to heaven as a pagan. are u a learner?



where will i find God then? where is he hiding?

'' the only living scripture is you, every other scripture are work dead''(anonymous quote) why should you rely on christian scripture? the only truth can only come from you. i told you earlier, do not depend on borrowed answer ,it is capable of stealing your future. you ask me to define faith. faith base on mariam webster dictionary, it define faith as a complete trust or confidence in someone or something without proof.....

so an intelligent person like you may ask me why should i trust or have confidence on something that has no proof?..
let me tell you something about proof , proof itself is a kind of agreement we settle upon just to achieve mental convenience and that is why an established proof can be challenge or upset at anytime. This is the same error many atheist are making on nairaland that science has proven evolution or big bang. scientist themselves knows that scientific methods prove nothing - they only provide reason to consider an hypothesis falsified. That reason may be very compelling - so compelling that we decide to trust it completely. In that moment we declare our faith. and that is why i subscribe to webster dictionary definition.

you dont question faith, unless it is a blind faith base on assumption. faith is smarter than the question,he knows far better than the question even to the point where the question can not reached...... that is why i will advice you to experience real faith that is not base on nothingness....


form my own experience , i have meet more cool Christians than the fanatics one

where will you find God? you can only find him through yourself .....
where is he hiding? his handwork is writing all over you...... i will advice you to put your five senses to work so you can experience the living God

frank317:
Faith is based on assumptiom... perhaps u should define what u mean by faith in this context.
If someone says...we dont know how the world came about, so therefore God did it. What kind of experience is this?


This is a wrong assumption... very wrong indeed. At least christians who preach peach dont believe this... why are u right and they are wrong.



By my actions towards her. The way i behave around her. U will see it and u will know it.

NO Sir, assumptions differ from faith, in assumptions experience and question is not necessary, in faith ,it give chances for testing....

if i tell you something that my religion says GOD create the world, you must test it, dont just assume it, carry your own personal experiment
and if you find it true with your own experience then follow it.

Borrowed answers and assumptions will not help you in your life journey. Only your own experience can lead you to truth. so if you are atheist because you read it somewhere or base on someone idea, you are crossing a river that has no bridge and you know what that mean...and that means the faith is blind.


not all christian discriminate, i have so many of them as Friends, even some of them are ok with me being a pagan.....it is only the fanatic that needs to be checked....only the fanatic will assume i am wrong for being a pagan unless he is a novice..

i like what you say about the way you will convince me to love your mom.....meaning it is only me who can personally experience the love you have your mom and not base on what people say.....it is only you who can find GOD and not base on what people say ....

frank317:
In order words faith cannot be wrong. Its either u are on the wrong path or u discover something. That means the muslim faith in allah is right and the christian faith in yahweh and his son Jesus is right and the igbo traditionalist faith in amadioha is right. All one needs experience or test what these various faith is all about and if he finds something a new doscovery is made but if he finds nothing he is on the wrong path for all of them.

I, my friend, will not be part of such theory.

For me, it is only faith because it is not right. Any knowledge based on faith is wrong.

your proposition is wrong.... knowledge is not base on faith... faith is rather base on experience while knowledge is base on objectively verifiable evidence.

i said it more than two times here that every religion is valid so long it promote peace and love......

let me ask you a jovial question.... how can you convince me you love your mom?

Proudgorgeousga:
what you should be comparing is theism/atheism tho not religion and atheism. religion is not the opposite of atheism.

i never said so either....i only point out what they have in common

frank317:
so why should any atheist bother about looking for prove of non existence of something that the believer has no prove for?

if i tell u i have faith that a green dog that grants me success in all my dealings exists and i tell u that i want u to also believe in this green dog, do u need to have faith to reject that a green dog exists if after asking me for evidence i tell u that i have non? do u even need to bother looking for a prove of non existence of a green dog when i have already told u i dont have a prove for its existence?
pls answer me sincerely

Faith should be checked and experienced ,if you are in right path it should open up a new dimension of possibility, if it leads to dead end then you are in wrong path.that is why the believer always repeat that the best way to know the truth about GOD existence is through oneself.........

i then need to experience this green dog

Proudgorgeousga:
are you comparing theism and atheism or religion and atheism?

NO, i agree with the proposition that atheism is not a religion (debatable anyway) but for the sake of argument i accept...
i am only pointing out the similarities of both of them.... i say both of them are faith base position

Humanistme:
this your comment, this particular one doesn't make sense I'm sorry to say.

lemme just do this for the last time

a guy tries to sell me Gucci but I refused to buy because I'm not convinced even though the products has Gucci logo but it looks sort of inferior. so it is the duty of the seller to convince me his products are original do you understand this analogy better ?

I only reply to this analogy just to proof it to you that is faulty....pls do not use it anywhere again



NO good sales marketer will apply the law of logic to sell a product,no good marketer will convince you by listing facts and sighting studies about the product. They know they're not selling anything until they engage the prospects emotions. that is why women outperform men in selling

There is a saying in sales:"People buy with their emotions and defend those buying decisions with logic." ask she.un how he market nairaland? does he use logic or emotions....

let me give you my own analogy.... many people buy a stuff they can't afford simply to satisfy their ego and only then begin to justify that purchase logically by telling them self things like the stuffs was a great deal or the best ever. or has a good resell value...

these were not the reason they bought the stuff in the first place. These excuses are just posterior to the purchase. They came after, and only because of the purchase.

Nobody buys a GUCCI SHOE because of it's "resell value." IT IS YOU THAT WILL CONVINCE YOURSELF FOR BUYING THE GUCCI SHOE

frank317:
recall my rejection is as a result of lack of evidence, but the believer is not interested in evidence thats why he has faith in the first place.

if he had believed because he has evidence will u still say he has faith?

then is no more faith again....it will be term knowledge.....


so the distinct similarities between religion and atheist is lack of objectively verified knowledge of the evidence of GOD.... EITHER he exist or not

hopefulLandlord:
You're just playing meaningless wordgames lol

"faith in the nonexistence" hahahahahahaha

HAAAAAAAAA, so frack is right abi? pls do not be bias

rozay12345:
Personally, the Nigerian syllabus is more robust than that of the UK, there is more universality being presented in the Nigerian syllabus. The best Computer Scientist are excellent Mathematicians, the major problem remains lack of quality laboratories and lecturers, if the listed issue is solve, i would rather ask my kid to go study in a University where he would gain knowledge across board than a specific one.

This is not true, UK university system is excellent compare to Nigeria. second only to the USA in the world...

In the Uk, all non focus subject like history, religious study, languages and craft work are learn in secondary school.you do about 12 subject in private and 10 subject in public secondary schooL before writing the GCSE.

when you further your study to university level,it is expected of you to be concentrated on your discipline, so you are trained for competency and not for liberal sake which is the case of Nigeria... knowledge is not power, ability make the difference....

frank317:
so if you tell me that you have faith that God is real and therefore you believe he is real and I say I dont believe he is real and therefore lack faith in the existence of God... where exactly did my faith come in?

let me paraphrase your statement. maybe you will get it. i dont believe he is real and therefore have faith in the non existence of GOD...... you should see where your faith come in now....

faith base position.... accept or agree that something is true without proof... tell me how atheism does not fall into this category ? pls a sincere answer

will the doll be able to do role play?

royallord1:
As a graduate of computer sciences in Nigeria... if u do not pick up dedicated programs such as oracle .. Java.. Ç++ and the rest to master. Master the art of data base administration... System security.... networking and the likes.... . ur certicate is as good as a Sunday school certificate... Almost worthless...

lol a kind of stomach cracking comment

Humanistme:
this your comment, this particular one doesn't make sense I'm sorry to say.

lemme just do this for the last time

a guy tries to sell me Gucci but I refused to buy because I'm not convinced even though the products has Gucci logo but it looks sort of inferior. so it is the duty of the seller to convince me his products are original do you understand this analogy better ?

hoops, you already conclude.... your analogy is flawed....you read it again and find out the loop holes... bye

Humanistme:
ok apply this your logic to someone who says he lacks belief in the existence of deities because there is no convincing evidence.

if you say there is no convincing evidence, do you also have convincing evidence to reject it.... do you now see it goes into each other

Humanistme:
religion

1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects:
the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices:
a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.:
to enter religion.
5. the practice of beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience:
to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
7. religions, Archaic. religious rites:
painted priests performing religions deep into the night.
8. Archaic . strict faithfulness; devotion:
a religion to one's vow.
Idiom
1150–1200; Middle English religioun (<
Old French religion ) < Latin religiōn- (stem of religiō) conscientiousness, piety, equivalent to relig(āre ) to tie, fasten (re- + ligāre to bind, tie; cf.
) + -iōn- ; cf.
adjective : religionless
adjective : antireligion
noun: nonreligion
noun: subreligion
see synonyms for
see antonyms for
see translations for
follow Dictionary.com
© 2017 Dictionary.com, LLC. religion


above is the different definitions of religion.

lemme ask haven't you heard a theist say things like I'm not religious but I believe that a god exists?

what do you think they mean when they say that.

you do not even get my argument, i agree atheism is not a religion but it is a faith base system like a religion.

understand my post very very pls.........

Humanistme:
so I lack belief in the existence of ogbanje spirit because there is no convincing evidence to support it does that mean I have faith that ogbanje spirit does not exist wft

what you doing now is called tautology

Humanistme:
atheism reject the claim of theism that a god that exist.

all atheists do not have the same view about their lack of belief.
few atheists believe there are aliens, some spirit etc.

some atheists only belief in the things they have evidence for and can verify so lack belief that aliens or spirits exists

some atheists belong to a religion (i.e. atheistic religions)

some don't.

so the only thing linking all atheists together is their lack of belief in god
likewise the only thing linking all theists wether Christians, Ifa, Muslim, or voodoo is their belief in god/gods but the nature or system of worship of the said god/gods is different understand?

note:I'm not interested in convincing you of anything you are totally free to reject my explanation.

go through your own post very well, you will realize you just agree with me....

your personal quote '' so the only thing linking all atheist together is the lack of belief in god'' this is what i am saying , what binds atheist together is base on faith and not on knowledge....... which make it share the same strong similarities with religion....

Any phenomenon you agree too without a proof is faith .....

hopefulLandlord:
Faith like religion? wtf?

lol, i hereby change your moniker to landlord not hopeful anymore.....

i agree the position of relating atheism to religion is not very sound but there are similarities that made so many people get confused'.....

but i will like you to go through this link.......http://omnilogos.com/atheism-judicial-perspectives-on-united-states-constitutional-meaning-of-religion/

http://www.ryananddebi.com/secularismjournal/index.php/snr/issue/view/1

Humanistme:
atheism is lack of faith in a deity. wtf is wrong with you guys?

is theism a religion?

Theism is broadly defined as the belief in the existence of the Supreme Being or
deities

Atheism is commonly understood as rejection of theism in the broadest sense of theism, i.e. the rejection of belief in God or gods.

what the hell is the argument about again that it has reached 11 pages?

do not be too personal on this issue...may be i am not getting it right...the forum is meant to share knowledge.... so see yourself as one who is part of the global knowledge center...

you personally do not believe GOD EXIST AND I THINK most, if not all ATHEIST like you do not believe GOD EXIST....IS THIS not GENERAL AGREEMENT among atheist WORLDWIDE not base on faith position? ....

faith is a believe system about a particular phenomenon rather than proof(free dictionary)so atheism is not a claim of knowledge but faith

so tell me if most atheist do not share the same believe system? or is the agreement of atheism that GOD do not exist objectively verified ?

your reply may convinced me...

vickzdvipe:
I still can't understand how a lack of belief metamorphosis into a type of belief.
In conclusion, atheism is not and cannot be regarded as a type of religion.

OK, i agree with you for the sake of argument.....

but what if i say atheism is base on faith like religion. will you deny it?

Martinez19:
.

i love the cute white boy