₦airaland Forum

hopefulLandlord:
your definition of objectivity isn't right

i get your stand....you are treating objective evidence as fact which is wrong

butterflyl1on:


Let me let you in on a little secret.

Unknown to you atheists here your arguments are simply VALIDATING theism and the existence of God regardless of our view or input.

I suggest you put your arguments side by side with my observation above

When you guys want so badly to win arguments you NEVER KNOW when you skip over to theistic arguments just to defend your atheistic positions.

Congratulations guys, you just sucker punched yourselves LMAO.

you are a good observer

that is why hopefullanlord disagree when i said general acceptance of a phenomenon is the objective while subjective evidence is solely base on individual acceptance ....

this is what i assume may pop up on his mind, majority of the world believes in GOD ... that make it an objective evidence....

for him to reject this acceptance, he will have to treat objective evidence as fact which is clearly wrong

hopefulLandlord:
This is where your problem is, this is where you're getting it all wrong

there is use of internet, how do understand things in one direction... why dont you have an open mind

hopefulLandlord:
its self explanatory and not in anyway confusing so I'm surprised you interpreted it the way you did

I'll try to explain and break it down as much as I could

before science discovered malaria, was it objectively existing? of course yes but humans had no idea, they just notice themselves falling sick and dying shortly after, they kept sacrificing to gods thinking the sickness is spiritual

Science eventually discovered what it is and much later, made a cure for it

Now, while the humans of those days thought their knowledge that the infection is spiritual is objective in their own "subjective" view, it did not in anyway change/invalidate the fact that its not spiritual

Same way that people then assert the moon created light on its own did not change the objectivity that the moon relies on the sun to reflect (not create) light

in the same vein, a tree that fell in the wilderness has fallen whether an observer is there or not

subjectivity does NOT in anyway affect objectivity one bit


I hope you get my point now

i only interpret it the way you construct your sentences

this is a flaw analogy... why ?objectivity is a general acceptance about a particular phenomenon, so if they are novice of malaria in the olden days , how those it make it objective acceptance.... you can only accept what you know.... the objective evidence in the olden days was that the sickness is spiritual ......that is the popular vote but that does not mean it is true ...

may be i should give you two distinct characteristics of objective and subjective evidence


objective evidence does not vary, subjective evidence vary

objective evidence is base on general held believe why subjective is solely base on individual opinion

whatever the general populace ever agree in the olden days was their objective evidence until subjective evidence came to unearth it as you rightly put it....


What am letting you know is we can never know objectively if we perceive definitions of an object in the same way. We don’t share the same mind. We can only look at things subjectively and make conjectures ... x=y. whatever the two equivalencies are. It’s a subjective agreement between humans that we don’t question, so we say it is objective

let me ask you these question, even with the emergence of science and technology .....Is there anything that we all assume is the same thing? Is there anything that no one has a question about?

Humanistme:
na wa for you. anyway read his reply he has explained what he meant

what do you mean by nah wah for you ?

Humanistme:
invalidate and unearth don't mean the same thing na haba!

no two words of grammar are the same, i never said so.....but in this contest ,they mean the same thing....

look at the contest in which he use it''subjectivity can unearth objective truths BUT even when it hasn't it doesn't make the objective truth any less objective''

hopefulLandlord:
what? where did I say subjectivity can invalidate objectivity?

can you quote where I said that?

how will you translate this word of yours ''subjectivity can unearth objective truths'' hopefullanlord

hopefulLandlord:
it didn't

Objectivity is something true or not regardless of someone's perception

subjectivity can unearth objective truths BUT even when it hasn't it doesn't make the objective truth any less objective

a tree (since we seem to be using it as example) that fell in the forest far away from the closest civilisation has fallen whether there's an observer there or not, objectively the tree fell but subjectively its undecided till one does go to the location of the said tree; objectivity isn't in anyway affected by subjectivity

I still Haven't seen th third question

re read my post again

ok because of the inconvenience of going through the same cycle in argument, lets keep the second question on hold for now

thank jah you yourself agree subjective can invalidate objective evidence.....if subjective evidence has not invalidate objective evidence,it does not in anyway confirm the truthfulness of that objective evidence ....objective evidence is not a fact.....
how do you verified the truthfulness of objectivity ? objectivity is just a kind of mental convenience ,it is not necessarily mean it is true

hopefulLandlord:
I ignored the second cuz it didn't in anyway relate to the discussion at hand

as for the first, would you be so kind to ask again?

and which one is the third?

The second question actually relate to it, i wouldn't have ask if it did not...

the first question was base on the evidence of objectivity in which i reply that if you argue for objectivity you would have to have some point of view that is outside of the subject you are trying to perceive. Unfortunately for objectivity, we are all inside the universe. We can not know if we perceive things the same way anyone else does or do you know?


for the third let me go through the thread.....ok

i ask you to check with an open heart if your two question has any element of resemblance

hopefulLandlord:
what are those 3 questions I dodged?

the one i ask on the objectivity? the purpose and essence of peace and love without GOD

ScienceWatch:
He has still not subjectively worked out what happened to that tree. His main question was, "Can someone be 6ft tall without a dick."

check my post, i have raised more than three question for him......he left it unanswered .....


hopefullanlord is very good at dodging questions

budaatum:
Frustratingly subjective of them!

You are much difficult for me to understand...tell me why? sometimes i need to read your response more than once

hopefulLandlord:
You're panting like a fish out of water

I asked if its possible to be Peaceful and Loving without belief in a god

religion here has nothing to do with my own question so I have no idea why you're bringing it in here

I have checked again and it does tally bro, I'm good at knowing when someone is wrong but ego won't let him/her admit it

lol panting because of what ? i am only taking enough time to explain better to you but since you already conclude you are right shekenah......

your questions are not tally bro..... you can ask your partner if am wrong...

maybe when you accept your deficiency we may continue ...bye

hopefulLandlord:
There is resemblance and you don't get to wish it away on a whim, its you that needs to study your reply to my first question and see how you unsuccessfully tried to move the goalposts when I asked the next

Q: is it possible to be 6ft tall without having a dick?

vaxx: No!

Q: are you saying there are no 6ft tall females?

Question 2 does follow from the answer to question 1 or do you need your fellow theists to explain this to you? cuz I notice you guys tend to agree and disagree based on who's saying something rather than what the person is saying

that assumption is not correct ....i mean your last paragraph


you ask a general question if there can be peace and love without GOD in which i strongly rejected, do you know this is a general question ? not all religious are GOD FOCUS..... some are without GOD BUT THEY ARE NOT ATHEIST

you ask another question where you have assume i am of the opinion no atheist can be lovely and peaceful(specific question)...


check these bro? HOW DOES IT TALLY?

hopefulLandlord:
you're good at moving the goalposts; my question is as right as it can be, no need strawnanning me by creating another question to get out of the corner you put yourself in

I asked you if its possible to be loving and peaceful without belief in any god and you strongly said no, you either have to admit there are no loving and peaceful atheists OR your assertion is totally false, Catch-22, logic 101

hopefullandlord,you are asking me a GENERAL question? is it possible to love and be peaceful without GOD and i strongly said no.... and in your second question ? you assume i am of the opinion if there is any atheist without love and peace.. your questions do not follow up at all, i treated them differently.... you should have ask me specifically if there exist an atheist without love and peace......

study your first question with your second question ... you will realize it has no resemblance......

budaatum:
Thanks for your subjective opinion.

yes it is my subjective view

hopefulLandlord:
So, you are of the opinion that there is no loving and peaceful atheist?

that is stereotyping, and that will be bias in generalizing a group of people with different faith from mine. the right question should be these , if everybody in the world turn to non believer, how many people will consider the essence of love and peace

hopefulLandlord:
Is it possible to be loving and peaceful without belief in a god?

strongly NO..... Humans are naturally violent, and there are valid scientific reasons for this.

Humans fight each other for money, power, land and so on

hopefulLandlord:
Is it possible to be loving and peaceful without belief in a god?

the purpose of love and peace without GOD IS USELESS.......WHAT IS THE ESSENCE OF LOVE AND PEACE

budaatum:
You remind me of the tree that fell in the forest. The tree and the forest are objects that exist. The argument is whether it really fell if there were no subject to observe it.

You seriously need to learn more about objectivity and subjectivity. You might understand how your subjectivity is devoid of objectivity.

that is why there is always a problem with objective agreement...Objectivity is a convenience way to settle disagreement . We agree that it is settled, although we never know when someone will come along to upset the agreement. this is what normally happen in science environment

hopefulLandlord:
There is objectivity

NO! apparent agreement does not make something a fact, apparent disagreement doesn't make something less of a fact

just saying its kind of meaningless without further explanation(s)

You need to read Se.uns post again and digest the message you're replying to

what are you really driving toward here.... s.e.u.n argument has been refuted already ..... do you mean there is objectivity? then you would have to have some point of view that is outside of the subject (yes, subject) you are trying to perceive. ....Unfortunately for objectivity, i and you are all inside the universe. so we both can not know if we perceive things the same way anyone else does or can you?

Martinez19:
This why I opened my thread on human stupidity.

human stupidity.....whao that is good , send me the link....if you think you are rational for not believing in GOD .... you are deceiving yourself.....TO me all religion are valid , though i may disagree with some of their doctrine but so long it spread peace and love....it is valid...

A non believer of GOD to me is worst than an ingrate

hopefulLandlord:
"Objective evidence is a subjective process" seriously


"Measure consistency and experience" how's that not subjective?

"Consistent reality is experienced" well......

Do you even understand my post,indirectly i am arguing for subjective evidence, telling seun that objective evidence is a subjective process....objectivity is something that subject make up.... subjectivity evidence can only be achieved from personal experience or is there any other way to have an experience? and Is there any such thing as objective experience?

As far as I can tell, there is only subjectivity. Objectivity evidence is a hypothetical state of knowledge that is impossible to verify.

Don’t mistakenly defend objective evidence for a fact. Facts are definitions. They are an apparent agreement between lots of people. But they are, in the end, tautologies.



what do you mean by well here '' measuring consistency and experience''

hopefulLandlord:
you're just Gish galloping while muddying things up which makes your post self refuting but you won't see it

can you show me if i can not see it...

Seun:
The utter lack of objective evidence for the existence of God suggests that he probably doesn’t exist. If God existed and wanted to be worshipped, he would not hide himself to such an extent that there would be no objective evidence of his existence whatsoever. What for?

waiting for objective evidence of GOD will steal your future,objective evidence is a subjective process, hence the rely on objective evidence to substantiate the reality of GOD is an invalid logic . Instead, try to measure consistency and experience. Consistent reality is experienced.

only you can experience the real truth.....butterfly1ion ,you are rightly on point.....

“The reason I talk to myself is because I’m the only one whose answers I accept.”
― George Carlin

This question has been deal with here ....https://www.nairaland.com/4068046/yoruba-version-life-after-death

AlanTuringAI:
How does one know his destiny like the kind of job he needs to do to succeed, the wife he's to marry and all that.

you may consult an ifa priest. he will carry out consultation on your behalf, the priest uses the Odu in ifa which is one of the 256 possibilities of the binary coded language of the universe, he will also recite verses of the holy Odu which has appeared. the Odu is a live energy, and before it can come down or appear, the ifa priest will invoke it through his Oracle which is prayed upon by the person seeking consultation and after that the ifa priest will go ahead to reveal what the odu means by interpreting it in a language the person seeking the consultation understand...

i will not advice people to seek for consultation unless the situation is beyond possible control...what i will tell you is Carry out an evaluation on your personal self....your ayanmo can not be alter, which are your inner talent ,what you do best and your interest in life... the reality is that the condition of your life (as an adult) is the result of the decisions and indecisions you made at the ajalamopin.

Olodumaré gives us all the asé to transcend any obstacle, If we have not transcended it, it is because we have failed to make the right decisions at the ajalamopin. so the right decision matter a lot

A quote from odu ifa "if the eyes did not see difficulties like one being found by tight rope, it may not see things as shining as brass''

judedwriter:
Any type of sex outside marriage is sinful to God. Whether sex with someone you are not married to (fornication) or sex with someone else when you are married, (adultery) or sex with the same sex (homosexuality) or sex with animals (bestiality) or sex with yourself (masturbation) or now sex with human dolls ()
God extremely hates any kind of sex outside marriage.

what if it now become legal to marry sex dolls? so many men and women are lonely and they may be happy with robot companion instead of human ..... note ....i am not advocating for sex dolls

enilove:
This your post above, does it make sense to you?

Do you have any rebuttal that will make sense to you.....if stating the obvious fact is not making sense to you, then what will?.... do not let the love you have for Christianity blindfold you from the truth

enilove:
The Bible does not teach us to downgrade women.

It is good to say only things you know about.

The tells us to love our wives as we love ourselves.
Ephesians 5:21-33 KJV
Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
[22] Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
[23] For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
[24] Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
[25] Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
[26] That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
[27] That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
[28] So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
[29] For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
[30] For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
[31] For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
[32] This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
[33] Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

If you see any man that does not love his wife, you have seen a failure and a candidate of eternal damnation.

since you are novice of your own religion, i shall refer you back to your scriptural book.....the first sin committed by humanity was made by woman.....what does she do? she consume from the tree of knowledge of good and evil....GENESIS 2-3..... base on biblical philosophy
eve shouldn't have consumed from the knowledge tree..... because yhwh intention was to make woman blank and be illiterate for life.. she ate and she was wise ;;;;;


furthermore, there are a lot of verses where st paul subjugate woman in the bible not to talk of the old testament.....this is the reason women will never be nominate for pope position...in the UK. the church of England(Anglican) pass a law that women can now become bishop, immediately over four male married bishop resign to protest against it, even one of them went further to erect a giant bill board that cost about 70 pounce in the street of London that read ''from today Christianity is finished . surprisingly, these four bishop were accepted into catholic church as priest despite married .

my worries on this latest technology is that sex abuse will increase and rape or incest may likely rise as there will be no room for guilty feelings again....

the technology will soon be upgraded to the level where customers can request for a intimacy gadget that resemble the real life partner he or she wish to sex which may be in the likeness of their mother , father ,son , daughter ,boss, pastor wife, friend wife etc.