₦airaland Forum

chukwudi44: So how come Jesus is still the son of God in heaven?

Intelligent question.
Because that is divine "sonship", not earthly "sonship".

[quote author=Demain_man]You are the one that said 'some' and the 'some', i only added the Catholic 'some' too thats all.

Well we Catholics see it differently VickyO. We see Mary as not just any woman but a very very very special woman to have brought Christ into this world. So we respect and honour her. If on the last day God tells us that we are wrong to honour Mary, So be it!

Let me ask you ones question. Do you celebrate mass in your church?[/quote]I don't know what mass is....
As I said there is nothing like Mother or father or any thing like that in heaven. that's why Jesus redefined the meaning of his family limiting them to those who do the will of God.
Why not accept the truth now? I smell stubbornness. There is nothing like mother of Christ in heaven. believe it or not.

vickyO: Who's this?
Let me address the Psalm 45 issue
The details of the Psalm clearly pictures an earthly wedding of the King of Israel. And it in no way conforms to the marriage supper of the Lamb in Rev. 10:1-10
Read the whole Psalm and understand it.

Syncan: Dear VickyO, compare that Psalm 45:6 "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre"

with this:

"But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom". Heb1:8

Please Just like you said "David was a prophet", Kindly note the truth in this as well...it was not talking about any earthly king. Just read the whole of hebrews chapter one, its not much.

The bolded implied you wanted my attention.
My post up there was for Demain man

[quote author=Demain_man]The title of queen is used for woman and not for faithful christians[/quote]Really........
Well, Mary was among the faithful Christians on Earth. So that Queen would be who

[quote author=Demain_man]You see you have answered the question "Some theologians have said the Queen represents the Church of Christ while some disagreed by saying the events are in no way a replica of the happenings in heaven

So we Catholics also believe that the 'Queen' is Mary the mother of God the son.

The title of queen is used for woman and not for faithful christians[/quote]I thought you said we should involve theologians i.e. we should take the scripture as it is. Well, you're doing otherwise. Take that scripture as it is and you'll realize it isn't Mary. And in death Mary ceases to be the mother of Christ. In heaven, there's nothing like husband, wife or daughter or son.

Syncan: Nothing my dear, for the post was not addressed to you in the first place. You however decided to "address" it, so i had to draw your attention to some things you seem to overlook. The post is a refutation to another post, and the refutation still stands.

The post wasn't addressed to me? why did you quote my post if you didn't intend to address me?

Syncan: Please let's not worry about what theologians say or not. Lets agree that God was talking to His son, and that a queen dressed in ophir was sitting at the Son's right hand. Just as the scripture says.

Ok, but did the scripture tell us who this queen is?

Syncan: Vicky, You already said Christians Intercede. Intercession is talking to God on behalf of another.



From your post, we see that though Christ is our Intercessor, Christians can intercede. Mary is a christian too.

She is dead. She cannot intercede. And moreover, we aren't even meant to pray to her in the first place.

italo: So you doubt Jesus when he says believers never die?

Of course we don't, only our flesh does.
But the Bible never said the dead Christians (physically dead) make intercessions for us. Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are the only ones who speak to God on our behalf. If you've got a scripture that says the dead in Christ can also make intercessions for us, post it.

[quote author=Demain_man]So who is that queen? You?[/quote]Some theologians have said the Queen represents the Church of Christ while some disagreed by saying the events are in no way a replica of the happenings in heaven.
So the Queen is the faithful Christians.

italo: It's fine by you that you should be seen as Jesus Mother, but Mary should not be seen as his Mother.

It has been said before. We clearly do not worship the same.

May it never be said about you what you are saying about the Holy Mother: that you are not the mother of the fruit of your womb. Amen.

I never said I wanted to be seen as Jesus' mother, all I know is that I'm in his family.
And Mary is the earthly mother of Christ, no doubt. But it ends here on earth, in heaven we all are saints/the bride of Christ, including Mary.

Syncan: Thanks VickyO. Note that I never said anything about a wedding, nor did I talk of Rev 10. All I did was Point to psalm 45:6 as a prophecy of God the father talking to the Son about his Scepter and throne. This could only happen in heaven. In verse Nine it talked about the queen sitting at the right of the Son. I supported this with Hebrews showing that It was God, talking to His Son. For in that Hebrews, God also addressed the angels. You may want to re-trace the genesis of this my post.

Ok, so what are you trying to prove to me?

italo: Is Mary a pagan or muslim or an Atheist?

Is she not a Christian?

Alive or dead?
She was a Christian and is a dead one now.
Jesus told us how to pray, I repeat, to the Father in Jesus name. Not to Mary or the saints.

italo: So how come Jesus explained "all the scriptures" to the disciples before the new testament was written?

"ALL!"

All, meaning, all the scriptures available then. There have been additions and they've been compiled in a book now, The Bible.
Read Alwaystrue's post.

lacum: @vicky
we get our knowledge of christ through d church not d bible. when u were born were u born carrying d bible? it was d church dat taught u about christ b4 u started reading d bible. dats wot d bible meant when it says dat it is profirable for teaching etc, it does not say it is surfficient. because jesus did not hand his teachings over to d bible but d church.

Isn't it through the Bible the church got it knowledge of Christ??
Read Alwaystrue's post

italo: Psalm 46:9 was inspired by GOD the Holy Spirit.

No?

Yes, it was.
And the same Holy Spirit opened Stephen's eyes to see Christ seated at the right hand of God.
That Psalm isn't really about heaven (it could be an analogy). Revelations 10:1-10 contains how the Marriage supper of the Lamb will be.

italo: So that makes VickyO Jesus' mother (since you obey his Father's will)

While Mary is not Jesus mother. (Since you said Jesus said otherwise)

Abi?!

If you choose to interpret it that way, it's fine by me.
Mary also obeyed the will of God... she was in the upper room.

italo: The Bible allows intercession.

The Bible doesnt exclude Mary from interceding.

Now you give me the verse where the Bible says "dont pray to Mary."

Lists of those who interceded in the Bible:
The Holy Spirit intercedes on our behalf, Roman 8:26, Elijah interceded Romans 11:2, Christians are to intercede I Timothy 2:1, Isaiah 59:16 speaks of how God made Christ our intercessor and Hebrews 7:25 shows that Jesus intercedes.
And it shows no record of Mary interceding for us.
Jesus us told us how to pray: To the father in the name of Jesus.
He didn't say pray to Mary but to the father in my name.

italo: This 'divine Jesus' mothered by Mary is God. No?

You said "Queen of heaven" is an abominable title. I said God himself said The Queen is at the right hand of God in heaven.

Who is that Queen?


How do we know you dont worship the picture?

Where is the bolded in the Bible?

lastmessenger: My sister you have said it all.it is only a religious mindset that thinks a girl trying to look smart and beautiful is equal to seducing men and ofcourse we christains do not have religious mindset rather we have the mind of christ.even lucifer according to the book of Ezekiel was made with precious stones like gold and the heaven we are going to spend eternity in is actually made with gold.this shows clearly that God likes good things.

The only thing that God hate is turning to material things as if it more important than God.why do i have to leave my hair without cutting it?why will some people think it is holiness if a womans hair is left unkempt? I mean the thought of it is even funny.

Like i said earlier the op and his friends should stop causing confusion in the body of christ.God has more things to reveal to us as we fellowship.i mean we should be discussing on the importance of prayer and stuffs like the holyghost.so lets grow up and leave this rubber tread and hell matter.

God bless you..

italo: Address it to your blind fellow Protestant.

Dont you want to save his confused soul?

he will see the post.
address my question.

italo: Jesus said Mary wasn't his mother?

Where? When?

When he said His mother, brother and sisters are those who obey the will of his father.
And he never called her his mum in the Bible. or can you quote any scripture?

POPE II: Mentioned one which says don't and we will stop

Answer my question first....

[quote author=Demain_man]The day your god of man, Adeboye, Oyaks or Oye proclaim that you should not celebrate it again because it originated from paganism, you will start using bible to quote verses to support their views. You are just zombies all of you nigeria christians[/quote]No man tells me what to or not to do. I always go back to the scripture to weigh the validity of anything taught or preached.
As I said the Scriptures said no man should judge you as to the days you keep.
Lastly, I don't fall into the zombie category..........

Syncan: Dear VickyO, compare that Psalm 45:6 "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre"

with this:

"But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom". Heb1:8

Please Just like you said "David was a prophet", Kindly note the truth in this as well...it was not talking about any earthly king. Just read the whole of hebrews chapter one, its not much.

I've read it. The Psalmist operates in the prophetic but If you read he whole Psalm 45, you'll know that the marriage described there is not the same as the one depicted in Revelations 10, the marriage supper of the Lamb. probably an analogy.

Syncan: You do not need to say so much, I asked the ladies (those with female monikers) a simple question.



After this, we can talk about why Jesus called her "Woman". If you care.

She is literally, but Jesus, the one we look up to said otherwise. He had his reasons and I'm sticking to his view why? cause I am his follower.

try69: See! Madam vicky, nobody asks you to validate any catholic teaching.. The points I have given you should be enough for you to keep quiet and go back to study.. ABI you want another shocker? Ok take.. "The christians before luther all venerate Mary" Suprised again? Or you want to know why? Ok

#we all are born with sin that's why we need to be baptised
#adam and eve where the first people without sin
#Satan brought sin to the world through Eve in the forbidden fruit
#God brought salvation for mankind from sin through Mary in the fruit she bore

The church which is the pillar of truth as stated in the bible taught those and it is quite logical..Who then is one voiceless vicky somewhere in a particular country called Nigeria to disprove it and without any reasonable inference?

That you cannot contest any of my points tells me a lot about you.. We encounter your likes everyday.. Baseless points! I have shown you what you do that are not in the bible, I have shown you that not the bible alone is the word of God. What then are you trying to prove?

GO AND LEARN! My time with you is up..I'd say nothing no more

As Christians we must validate all Christian doctrines, it's a must. and Catholics are Christians.
Well, the Bible in Acts never recorded a time the early Christians honored her........ They never did and the Apostles never mentioned her name as a matter of fact, when teaching doctrines. Just mention one scripture that tells us to honour her and I will keep quiet.

Syncan: Sis, If you ask your question civilly, you'll surely get an answer. If you ridicule, then you do not need an answer.

Note that this is a general statement of fact, I am not indicting you yet of any wrong.

quote author=vickyO]
Ok, let me ask appropriately.
Please can you quote the Scripture that supports prayers to Mary?[/quote]I'm waiting for the scriptures.

PrettyGaby: Paul stressed over and over again that the gentiles were not under the law. the Bible said that going back to live under the law is akin to making the death of Christ in vain. i can't live by those laws ( imagine not going to church cuz i am on my period or cuz i am a bastard or worrying whether my clothes are made of same fibre) if you want to use the law as a yardstick, then be sure to keep all of it cuz if you judge by it, you will be judged by it. remember, fail one, fail all

Don't mind them and their oversabi attitudes. The Old testament was even compiled to show us life before Christ, which we are not bound to adopt. They try to put new wine into old wine skin and fail to see the horrible outcome, why? Cause they've been brainwashed by religious leaders, forgetting they are humans like you and I. They are like the Pharisees, placing outward appearance over the inner man. I was once there, I know how most of them are.

highyo: Jewellery



Chains (some witches even wear them on their ankles), rings, bracelets, bangles, earrings, necklaces and other jewels: Do not imitate agents of satan who despite the teachings continue to be attached to them.



Jewellery, rings, bracelets, chains and many others, are only there for the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life. It is the same thing with wigs and other sets or fineries which many women are still firmly attached to.



All these external loads that you put on, are simply objects of seduction, and only meant to glorify satan. All these things only help to satisfy the desire of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life. So they constitute great open doors to satan. Repent and abandon all those things.



The search for artificial beauty is a terrible danger for human beings, a great trap that satan has set for humanity. And all those who fall in it, suffer terribly. Be very careful. Flee from all these elements that give you some artificial beauty, and praise God for the natural beauty which He has blessed you with. Psalm 139:14 says: I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; marvellous are Your works, and that my soul knows very well.



Let me open a bracket here to give you another element of discernment. If you meet so-called children of God, who have fully received the knowledge of the truth, and who still attach themselves to these seductive products, know that they are of satan. True Children of God are attached to these things when they are still in ignorance. But once the Lord opens their eyes, they repent and abandon these things without hesitation. Whereas the agents of satan will always find justifications to hang on to them.



The Lord says "and you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free". We were all in falsehood, that is, the gospel of lies. The moment the Lord gave us the truth, we allowed ourselves to be set free by the truth. True Children of God always allow themselves to be set free by the truth, and they are really delighted to have been set free at last. Whereas those people of satan, being not of the truth, never allow themselves to be set free by the truth. You will know them in your midst. The things of God always appear to be too difficult for them to put into practice, even simple things. These people always spend their time disputing the teachings, they never stop making up reasons to justify their stubbornness. You, Children of God, do not imitate them.



If you know so-called sisters in your midst who constantly create arguments of the kind "we need not wear coverings at all time", "a bit of make-up can be used so far as it is not exaggerated", "the Bible does not specify that trousers are man's clothing", "Jesus was wearing gowns", do not be surprised. They are the people of satan. The truth seems too complicated to them, and they are always attached to the things of the world like their father the devil.



And as you notice it yourself, these objects are of no use. They are just there for the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life. The Bible clearly asks us to flee from all these things.



Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world - the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life - is not of the Father but is of the world. 1John 2:15-16

1) So you know witches, nice? Do they wear clothes or not? if they do, why are you putting them on too? And the clothes you wear, you should know that many designers (Tailors, fabric makers) aren't Christians, some are Devil worshippers.

2) In Ezekiel, God made a comparison between Israel and an earthly bride. He used terms like jewelry, nose ring, just read it. Wearing these things are essential for you to look good. And there is a difference between changing your looks entirely with plastic surgery and enhancing it with make up and the likes.

3)So because you are fearfully and wonderfully made, you won't shave your hair and beards when they grow too full, you won't cut your nails, you won't wear clothes that fit your shape and make you appear smart, you won't buy good quality shoes if you have the money (Jesus' robe was expensive, the guards fought for it sef), you won't buy a wristwatch that fits you and complement your outfit, you won't wear deodorants and use perfume to smell nice, you won't buy quality materials to sew your clothes if you have good cash. All these things I've stated are things you probably do as a man, and they fit into your definition of loving the world.

4)The Deeper life Go, Kumuyi, drives expensive cars, He wears good designer suits, good quality shoes, doesn't that fit into your definition of loving the world?

Re read this and understand well before commenting.

vickyO: @ op
Follow the things that make peace and edify others instead of making a hobby of meats, drinks, Sabbaths, circumcision, law keeping, rituals, dress styles, ornaments, customs, and outward religion- things which in themselves do not destroy the work of God, and concerning all things which all men will never perfectly agree. Romans 14:19-20, I Cor. 8:7-13, I Cor. 10:23-31
Romans 14:22 tells us not to condemn ourselves over anything not specifically forbidden in the scriptures by plain command. and not to permit our consciences to be swayed by wrong religious backgrounds or constant religious turmoil over doubtful things.
and lastly
Romans 14: 23 tells us not to do anything that is doubtful. If you are not clear on a matter, proceed no further.

I am clear on the issue of adornments. and I believe it doesn't contradict the scripture so let us be. Save your massage for folks with like minds.

italo: Then check "scripture" lets see if its the same.

scrip·ture [skrípchər]
(plural scrip·tures) or Scrip·ture [skrípchər] (plural Scrip·tures)
noun
1. biblical writings: the sacred writings of the Bible
2. biblical text: a passage from the Bible

Microsoft® Encarta® 2009. © 1993-2008 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

[quote author=Demain_man]^^^^^Don't mind the olodos[/quote]Who's this?
Let me address the Psalm 45 issue
The details of the Psalm clearly pictures an earthly wedding of the King of Israel. And it in no way conforms to the marriage supper of the Lamb in Rev. 10:1-10
Read the whole Psalm and understand it.