₦airaland Forum

ifenes:
Happy holidays/Joyous Feast of Mithra

Christmas is pagan and of zero value to Christianity. I hope you are not attempting to sneak a fight.

paulGrundy:
Am not sure you know your bible very well. Check this out.

Acts 8:12King James Version (KJV)


12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and [size=18pt]women[/size].

Baptism is for those who believe, an infant does not have the capacity to doubt or believe.

Chai!

If I may add, we have a good grasp of Christian history to know that infant baptism is a late invention, 4th century to be precise and hitherto unknown. Christians would do well to study Christian history. If they did, they'd appreciate the fact that most of what they dearly cling to are traditions of men

Why do churches publicize their charity like its some sort of achievement?

Charity is the foundation of Christianity and not an extracurricular activity

PastorOluT:
Hmm, if u r sincere enough with urself, according to the scripture will all end up in Hell?

No they won't. How is this relevant?

You are mixing hypothesis with facts. It is a fact Judas rebelled and thus perished, you are hypothesizing his repentance. This can't be mixed with the fact of his perishing

Neeson:
Buh he's not entirely wrong, in the earlier post he quoted, you talked about so much faith, how come you suddenly thought God doesn't care about you?

Jesus Christ prepared his disciples for suffering ahead. We all need lessons in suffering so we don't curse God when her cankerworm devours our farm

italo:
It wasn't Elizabeth that thought Mary was special. It was the Holy Spirit.

Luke1:41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the child leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit 42 and exclaimed with a loud cry, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb. 43 And why has this happened to me, that the mother of my Lord comes to me? 44 For as soon as I heard the sound of your greeting, the child in my womb leaped for joy. 45 And blessed is she who believed that there would be[e] a fulfillment of what was spoken to her by the Lord.”

True, and Jesus full of the Holy Spirit tells a woman who said he EXACT words that more blessed are those who listen to Him.

So, Mary was not mistaken nor was the woman but am more if not equally blessed as Jesus' mother.

There is a blessedness that exceeds Jesus paternity; heeding to His Word. While Catholicism worships demons in the name of Mary,I choose to believe Jesus' words.

And finally, Mary's blessedness in her life does not make her a mediator between man and Jesus. This is another Catholicism invention to justify demon worship.

sonOfLucifer:

For you,platteon,Ifenes and other serious Negroes on NL

Neeson:
Buh he's not entirely wrong, in the earlier post he quoted, you talked about so much faith, how come you suddenly thought God doesn't care about you?

Millerz = trapQ
i initially thought she was just teasing atheists. Supposing she is serious. I'd diagnose her as a casualty of Prosperity Gospel the one of health+wealth+happiness utopia. Believers are ever so ill prepared for hardship and for this, most shipwreck their faith whenever God does not bend to their whims

Syncan:
At bold: Now I see that your problem is your fear of contradicting Jesus as the One Mediator, yet for that purpose; you are willing to go out of scripture and claim that Jesus saying in Matt.18:10 is no longer true. That's contradictory on itself. I however praise you for being bold enough to proclaim the intercessory roles of angels as seen all over scripture, but to allay your fears and to explain to you why the intercessory roles of angels and saints(on earth or beyond) does not diminish nor contradict the One mediator-ship of Christ, I will say this which I have written somewhere before:



(1Tim 2:5) “There is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ.”

The Catholic Church actually do acknowledge Christ to be our one and absolutely unique mediator who alone can reconcile us to the Father in a strict sense. Thus Christ qualification as our mediator is exhibited in two ways:
1) By his very existence on earth- In taking flesh, Christ united God and Man in His person, for He alone is both God and man.
2) By his ministry,suffering and eventual death on the cross, He paid the debt owed by man and conferred grace on sinful man. In this regards, Christ is our sole mediator.

However, if we take a look at the first verse of that chapter, it says:

(1Tim 2:1) "I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men".

Here St. Paul calls us to intercession, yet we know that Christ continues to intercede, since (Heb 7:24-25) says: "But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them". St Paul knows this eternal Intercessory role of Christ, yet he exhorts the faithful to "Intercessions for all men" without fear of contradiction, it therefore means that we can participate in these aspect of Christ's ministry according to the level of "bonding" between us and Jesus without anyone feeling that recognition is taking away from Christ. It is like Jesus saying in (Matt 23:8 ) "But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master(teacher), even Christ; and all ye are brethren". Yet we see (James 3:1) telling us there are authentically,many masters(teachers) in the church.In deed,(Eph 4:11) says:"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers". St. Paul calls himself same thing, even in that same chapter of 1Tim 2 in verse 7. The Issue here is to understand that members of the body of Christ(The Church) who participate in teaching and mediating/interceding do not take away from Christ as One Teacher and Mediator, for they are in a sense Christ, and serve to establish His offices of Teacher and mediator in Him.

Sir you are a wise man
Paul calls for intercession and we know Jesus intercedes for us. We can reconcile this by acknowledging that human intercession is way different from the unique Jesus and Holy Spirit intercession.

The point where I differ with Cattholicism is he claim that Angels pray for humans and that dead men/saints pray for sinners.

Asking dead men to pray for you is no different from contacting dead men which is forbidden in the scriptures. So while I may pray for you now, once I depart this is just about it.

The subject of this thread is not dead men/saints interceding but Angels. Ayoku777 went off tangent by claiming angelic intercession ceased with Christ. I insist it was never there in the first place.

Syncan:
Oga vooks, you simply ignored all the passages he (ayoku777) brought to your attention, just to stick to your claim. That's not how you seek truth.

My broda,
The claim Ayoku777 makes is, appearing before God=seeking deliverance from trouble. This has effectively been debunked

NnaNna4:
what is the matter with you. Must she please everyone (like you) to withdraw her book. If you don't like her book just move on to other things. As a shallow Christian during my NYSC days in bauch ,I read her book and was revived in spirit. I cried for quite some time.
I got fired up again during the Service NCCF secretary in my zone.
Look a white evangelist who lived in America didn't believe all this witchcraft/deliverance until he came to Africa (Nigeria) to be precise. Now he has written a book "dark entities".
Do not be like white men who will not believe until they experience something 1st hand. In a nutshell, stop discrediting what quite a number of persons have testified positively to....you are doing damage, more damage in this forum than good.

If truly you are a Christian as you claim then, don't just condemn something because of analysis or errors on that book. Don't you know for every twelve genuine believers, their will be Judas and Thamos. Which one are?

This debate is done and dusted. Rebecca Brown books are irredeemably full of embellishment.

Merry Christmas

Image123:
You get this man wahala sha.

Did you know they call him 'God in flesh'?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vp6e2-gEnSY

Image123:
Whatsover we do, we should do all to the glory of God. If there's a way possible for Judo, wrestling, boxing, gambling etc would glorify God. How it can be possible, if it is possible, by all means, then do it.

You ignored the tenuous claim that competition and love are mutually exclusive and on this basis all sports are anti-love. Please respond to this. I have endeavored to demonstrate that you may avoid competitive sports but you compete in just about every other aspect of your life and unless you are prepared to discard these as well, you would be inconsistent to apply it to sports

ayoku777:
Nawa o! So Jesus is the angel of the Lord that said "O Lord of hosts, How long..."?

Yessir, that is Jesus interceding.
One thing you need to learn is that in the OT, angel means more than just that class of beings

Study closely who is this angel who appeared to Hagar. She called Him God
Genesis 16:13 (KJV)
And she called the name of the Lord that spake unto her, Thou God seest me: for she said, Have I also here looked after him that seeth me?

Study closely the dialogue at the burning bush and tell me whether that was not YHWH Himself yet He is referred to as an angel.
Exodus 3:2-4 (KJV)
And the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. 3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. 4 And when the Lord saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I

And you think the angels of the kids beholding the face of God doesn't mean they are beholding it on behalf of the children?

I don't make unnecessary and unwarranted wild inferences. All the angels in Revelation before the throne, on whose behalf are they be holding the face of God?

How exactly do you interprete scripture?

By dropping all presumptions and allowing scriptures to speak to me. This is exegesis. You on the other hand are reading your own ideas INTO the text. They call this Eisegesis.

I keep showing you scriptures of where looking unto God means for help and deliverance, and you say it doesn't mean the angels were beseeching God.

This is because we have countless accounts of angels appearing before God and they were not seeking for deliverance from nothing! Brings to mind Job and the sons of God appearing before the LORD.

To mediate means to appear before the presence of God on behalf of a person or a place.

And to intercede is to pray to God on behalf of somebody else something you have yet to show no angel doing

And that is what the angels do when they behold the face of the Father on behalf of the kids.

No sir, that is what you THINK

And that is what the angel that interceeded for Jerusalem and Judah in Zechariah did.

This is Jesus Christ not an angelic being

I don't know how you came up with the fact that Jesus was the angel praying there.

Because of John 17

I can endure ignorance, but not arrogance. Twisting God's word over what is so obvious.

I can endure ignorance and arrogance but not obtuseness, and Eisegesis

In the case of the angel that jesus sent to John, the angel was sent on an errand as a ministering spirit. That doesn't mean the angel appears before God's presence on behalf of John or any person, which is what mediation means.

Please demonstrate from OT how the Law was received by 'disposition of angels' as per Acts 7:3. Did the angels pray to Gof to deliver the Law to Moses? You are funny. Disposition means AGENCY and WITNESS and not MEDIATION not INTERCESSION. And a perfect example of this is the book of Revelation.

They don't do that anymore, only Jesus does now.

Wrong. They have never mediated nothing.

That angels worship before God doesn't mean they appear before Him on behalf of any person or any place anymore. They are not worthy of that role anymore under the new covenant.

But it means appearing before God does not mean seeking help or deliverance from trouble. You claim that the angels of the kids appear before God on behalf of the kids praying that the kids be kept away from trouble. That is Ayoku777 embellishment!

Disagree all you want, you can't give this verses another meaning other than the obvious.

To behold the face of the Father is to behold it for help and deliverance. And the angel in Zechariah prayed to God for mercy over Jerusalem and Judah. And please, please, that angel is not Jesus.

This angel is Jesus Christ just as the angel at the burning bush is God! This is a christophany

The scriptures cannot be broken. Let the word of God be true. Remove sentiments from its interpretation.

Shalom!

Very true, may the fiction scales fall off your eyes in Jesus name!

ScofieldBello:
That can be understood because it is made by a man - one who ain't omniscient and not perfect!

They are grossly unrelated sir.

You miss the point, that something is out of order, proof of its maker is not restoration of order

Jadonjack:
I wonder the kindda child yu make for your parents. I'm sure they are tired of your miserable life just as every of your fellows here

The kind of child that would NEVER preach of his father's foolishness to strangers.

M0rpn when you find your father naked and drunk you cover him up not mock him. What kind of a fool are you?

ayoku777:
To behold the face of God or look up to Him is always for help.

Psalm 121v1 - I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help.

Psalm 17v15 -As for me, I will behold thy face in righteousness: [and] I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with thy likeness.

Psalm 34v4 -I sought the Lord, and he heard me, and delivered me from all my fears. 5  They looked unto him, and were lightened: and their faces were not ashamed

Isaiah 45v22 - Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

We look up to God for help, for salvation (or deliverance), for satisfaction (or wholeness).

And I didn't need to add "on their behalf" for you to get that the little ones were the reason the angels were beholding the face of God. Jesus made that clear

The angels of the little ones were beholding the face of God for those little ones. And it is for help.

Angels interceeded for Jerusalem under the old covenant and beseeched God for Him to have mercy.

Zechariah 1v12 -Then the angel of the Lord answered and said, O Lord of hosts, how long wilt thou not have mercy on Jerusalem and on the cities of Judah, against which thou hast had indignation these threescore and ten years?

This angel was not questioning God, he was intreating God, to end His indignation against Judah and have mercy on Jerusalem.

And God answered the angel.

Zechariah 1v13 - And the Lord answered the angel that talked with me with good words and comfortable words.

v16  Therefore thus saith the Lord; I am returned to Jerusalem with mercies: my house shall be built in it, saith the Lord of hosts, and a line shall be stretched forth upon Jerusalem.

To interceed is to stand in the gap between God and a person or a place, for help for that person or place. And that is what these angels did for Jerusalem and for these little ones Jesus talked about.

The context in which Jesus said the angels behold the face of God is for those little ones, and its for help from God.

Shalom.

Study Zechariah closely and you will read the intercession comes from Jesus and it reminds you of he high priestly prayer of John 17.

Repeat
Angels have never prayed to God for men

Back to your tenous example
You are yet to demonstrate how Angels stand BETWEEN God and the children.

Jesus simply said that Gid treasures kids and has assigned Angels to each. When you get time, go through Revelation and you find Angels LITERALLY worshipping before God. It is a stretch of imagination to countenance Angels pleading with God on behalf of kids.

Now, go back practically demonstrate how the Law was mediated by Angels other Han what I said

Syncan:
Meanwhile oga ayoku777, since it seems vooks have been enlightened by you, and he now agrees that it was intercession, abeg when did the angels of the little children stop "beholding the face of God on their behalf in heaven", or have they been disbanded?

The Angels of the then kids were told to busy themselves with something else after Calvary. Thats funny

Let's think through this; why would God need an angel standing before Him to remind him of a child on earth? Isn't it more plausible to see the Angels as simply guardians lookin over the kids to protect them from harm? How would you call this INTERCESSION?

ayoku777:
The intercessory role of angels under the old covenant was in their capacity as the mediators (disposers and ordainers) of that covenant.

Acts 7v53 - Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

Gal 3v19 -Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

But according to the new testament epistles, Jesus is now the only one mediator between God and man

1Tim 2v5 -For there is one God, and ONE MEDIATOR between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

To mediate between God and men, is to stand in the gap before God on behalf of men in whatever capacity (advocate, intercessor, righteousness).

If there is any other person, that stands before God and to behold His face on behalf of men, other than Jesus Christ, whether angels or any heavenly saint; then Jesus would not be the only mediator between God and men.

And that would make this scripture wrong.

Under this new covenant, Jesus is our only mediator between God and men. Our advocate, intercessor, righteousness before the Father.

Hebrews 8v6 -But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is THE (not A) mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Hebrews 12v24 - And to Jesus THE (not A) mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Jesus is THE only mediator between God and men under the new covenant. The only one that stands before God on behalf of men as advocate, intercessor and righteousness. Not angels, or any heavenly saint.

Shalom

My broda,
They say if you dig yourself into a hole the best way out is to stop digging.

You are busy mixing issues instead of admitting your error

INTERCESSION is simply praying for somebody else. Look up any agreed dictionary.

You claimed in the OT angels interceded for he living and attempted to support this but you failed.

How did Angels mediate the OT?
Just about every covenant in the OT is attended to by Angels whether it is Moses and the burning bush, Abraham and so forth. You see Angels all over in OT. But you never see Angels praying for men. They were agents through whom God gave His Law. A perfect example of this agency is Revelation. God sends His angel to John. The angel is not a mediator but a mere agent.

What you are doing is redefining intercession to cover whatever Angels did in the OT. To see your error, get any of the OT books and give me an example of Angels interceding

italo:
We will only take an iddiot that says the above when he shows where Catholic doctrines encourages necromancy and the bible claimed Catholicism is Babylon the great.

You have been warned,
Keep worshiping Devils and you will end up in the lake of fire with him

You been warned

Millerz:
Kindly ignore vooks. I've no reason to cook up stories for public opinion, neither do I intend seeking attention. I've been disturbed by this issue for several months now so if he thinks its a fabricated story then he's clearly in oblivion.

Now that trapQ has had her 15 moments of shame and fame, tell me exactly what you need done for you?

A few days ago you were bragging of how enviable your school is, how widely travelled you are and so forth

sonOfLucifer:
Thank you johnnydon22,
for the long posts that hurt my thumb as I scroll,
Worth the read always.
Take a bow, you're my MOTY(Moniker of the year)

Shoutout to plaetton, boss of boss,
always a pleasure reading you,
seen it all, read it all, yet our brains still function,
to Tooth Fairy be all the glory.

To Vooks, my brother in Christ,
May your keypad not whip an unbeliever to coma..

To malvisguy212 and Ebukasblog, may Christ not lead you to crisis.

To Reyginus and UyiIredia, may your search to find reason and logic in faith be fruitful..


Shouout to modath, my politics mama.
and dearpreye, a friend from afar.
mizmycoli and ishilove, my lovers


To AllNaijaBlogger, a big Bleep you from me to you, >:

Negro, don't Merry Christmas be before you get Lara Croft Go!

frank317:
You are so pathetic.... Christ must be very proud of you.

You are a real example of why religion is such a menace.
Nice to know ur fellow Christians are reading your comments and not finding it nauseating.

Now that you felt like regaling us with how FOOLISH your father is, out of my respect for my parents I ignored all your garbage and went to the point; how is he faring? Exactly what is wrong with his health?

italo:
Luke1:41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the child leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit 42 and exclaimed with a loud cry, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb. 43 And why has this happened to me, that the mother of my Lord comes to me? 44 For as soon as I heard the sound of your greeting, the child in my womb leaped for joy. 45 And blessed is she who believed that there would be[e] a fulfillment of what was spoken to her by the Lord.”

Because God the Holy Spirit inspired Elizabeth to perceive Mary her little cousin as superior.

Please do yourself a favor and THINK.

Elizabeth thinks Mary is special just as this other woman. The other woman does not hesitate to tell Jesus how special his mother is. What does Jesus do?

He tells the woman who thought Mary was blessed that all wo obey Him are blessed. What does this mean? Mary is not special.

You are a pagan and son of Beliaal that's why you keep arguing with Christ.

Receive a double portion of common sense in Jesus Name

ayoku777:
Read the verse again;

Matthew 18v10 -Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven THEIR ANGELS do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

According to Jesus, from these scripture; He said we should not despise these little one, as though they are without help, because they have angels beholding the face of God [size=18pt]on their behalf in heaven.
[/size]
What does it mean to behold the face of God or to lift up your eyes to Him? Is it not for help or in supplication?

He wasn't talking about the angels just starring at God to look at Him, they are beholding the face of God relative to, or on behalf of these little ones.

That's supplication or intercession.

But we have a new intercessor and mediator now though, better than angels -Jesus Christ.

Shalom

You added the highlighted sir.
Jesus confirms what is hitherto recorded in the apocrypha, the concept of guardian angels, but guardian angels and intercession are poles apart. Angels are and were messengers of God not some conduits for prayers under any dispensation.

Thank you all for your insight into this matter of human spirits in dreams

plaetton:
Yes, charity should be a continuous activity.
Nevertheless, there is no hypocrisy in sharing your surplus in this season of merriments.

But then, the "name it and claim it " bling bling theology is the new hallmark of christian philosophy.

My father is not exactly well educated, went up to high school, came from a poor family, granddad died quote early so grandma was twice disadvantaged. She never remarried. His enduring legacy is educating his siblings. He actually dropped off high school because he got a job and whatever little he got,he paid school fees for his siblings and cousins. Overall he educated some 19 kids, now family men. When I look at those families,and compare them the those who never went to school at all, I appreciate the value of charity. Serious charity.

I have purposed to educate as many kids so as to give them a fighting chance. Negroes need to invest in education whether jobs are there or not. So you won't find me running around over Christmas like Santa Claus. What I do over this period is take long drives because the roads are relatively freed up. I also listen to Christmas carols for memories sake.

Am also thinking of buying at least two bales of second hand clothes for giving away. My mum in love, she is a widow and for a fraction of what I make, she has exceeded me in educating orphans. If I gave her 2 bales, one for kids and another for women, she'd have at least 400 pieces to give away.

So my broda, apart from bickering here over God and theism, lets invest in the underprivileged.
I keep on saying charity is the gospel in deed.

Imagine one bale goes for between 30-40K and you can clothe 100 souls

The gospel of bling is from the deepest pit of hell. A church should save 10% of its collections and dispense the rest to the needy not pampering their GO. I encourage my fellow Christians to study Christian history. The historicity of some of these teachings gives them away as new inventions. There is a reason why the English had 'poor as a church mouse' quip; churches were never designed to be ATMs. Men who make much more than their wildest imagination simply because they left 'all' to preach are in all likelihood poor stewards

TB Joshua is a serial charlatan and liar so he probably feels nothing seeing he is used to serving the same dish liberally

plaetton:
Isn't gluttony a sin ?

I thought a genuine follower of Jesus would feed the needy, ..you know, like the fish and loaves that kept on multiplying ?

But then, I am under the false assumption that you do understand what the message of Jesus means and the inherent moral philosophy .

Feeding the needy over Christmas is hypocrisy; the food perishes. What you need is continuous charity not reflex bowels of mercy.

How is your weekend coming Amateur Septic(sic)?
Having failed in logic, I figured at least you know something about sea food
What's your advice?

Pavore9:
User of "pagan" products....lol!

I do but unlike Catholicism I don't attempt to attach any spiritual value to them. You stole rosary from Hindus, idols from Greeks, purgatory from pagans and claim God approves of this. Repent

italo:
Mary heard the Word of God and kept it...with distinction.

But Mary-haters don't like that.

She kept THOSE words shared by the angel. How is she superior to you in the light of what Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God said?
That woman was deluded as yourself that since Jesus was this powerful, His mother must have been somebody special. Jesus quickly her; if there is any blessedness in his paternity,it is exceeded by listening to Him!

KingEbukasBlog:
It was sarcasm . I even enjoyed a good laugh when I visited the thread

My broda,
Weep,not for Millerz, she will soon realize that NL is no shoulder to whine on.
Can you see amateur skeptics and antitheists rubbing their hands with glee?
They are the most insecure scum of humanity