₦airaland Forum

Bidam: TOO BAD THEIR TITHES DON'T COUNT.

...and a good number of them are successful they attribute the success to the tithe. that's why they continue to tithe is that not the same reason you tithe? or you are tithing hoping e go better one day

TV01: What of Frosbel?

Lol! Good question

Candour: Then who was receiving the tithes of his regular farm livestock increases.was it Melchizedek too? if not which priest?

Help me ask them. have been asking joagbaje similar question for years. sadly, its questions like this that will make the man to log out of NL and resurface 2 or 3 days later believing you have forgotten bout the question

BARRISTERS: @ZIKKY
my brother, this discussion will lead nowhere! the tread owner is busy with posting cartoons and using your comment to build his tread so as to win nairaland 'man of the year(religion)' which joagbaje had earlier won, and you will be surprised that nairaland are only concerned with the tread volumes and so on and not the quality of the content and argument, joagbaje is OYAKHILOME'S man and if i may tell you that they knew the truth, but choose to fight it, your time used for this is my concern! can you just leave the tread for good? i got your point clealy as any objective person will do, but unfortunately, you are talking to a WALL! here with selfish interest.

My posting here is not an attempt to make them see the light. I am fully aware am talking to a wall. The posts i respond to are post they have designed to serve as a means of propagating their greed inspired scheme. I post because of the ignorant and gullible readers. My post is not even meant to convince the readers but to provide an alternative view for them to think about, if they can.

Joagbaje: It was a principle in Gods kingdom before it ever became a law.

Joagabje, you are yet to provide the name of the book you have been reading. i know it's not the bible. Give me the name of the book na so i can read as well. abi na revelation?

Joagbaje: If tithing is obsolete then offerings to God should be obsolete as well.

Giving 10% of your income to your pastor is not wrong. what is wrong is when the giving is seen as adhering to malachi 3:10 or mathew 23:23 or any other command that has to do with the mosaic law, or when it is seen as trying to comply with a directive/instruction from God.

Joagbaje: Through who? and Did the spirit ever say tithing should end.?

Did the spirit ever say that payment of God's tithe is free for all?

Bidam: ..MIND YOU THE PPLE WHO GIVE TITHES AND OFFERINGS ARE HOLY GHOST FILLED TONGUE TALKING BELIEVERS..THEY KNOW THE HEART BEAT OF CHRIST.

abeg commot for road jor yahoo boys pay tithe, robbers pay tithe, politicians pay tithe. you think we don't know the nature of people that pays tithe? continue to deceive yourself

mba emeka: Did any of us tell you that people should give under compulsion?

The above was your response to my post, and below is your response to frosbel...

mba emeka: Let each man give under his own conditions and volition but let them give the tithes.

Jesus said do not be like the Pharisees who like to let the world know what they're giving etc. (Paraphrasing) so what do we do? Do we neglect the giving? No. Instead he said but when you give. . .

So the issue shouldn't be 'is it still necessary?' 'Who do we give it to?' 'What do they do with it?'. Just give it- the tithe, your offerings and seeds. Simple.

mba emeka: Let each man give under his own conditions and volition but let them give the tithes.

mba emeka: So the issue shouldn't be 'is it still necessary?' 'Who do we give it to?' 'What do they do with it?'. Just give it- the tithe, your offerings and seeds. Simple.

...are you saying that your response to frosbel is not indicating that tithe is a must? read your post very well.

mba emeka: I can't take people like zikky serious because they are carnally minded.

..and you think its people like mba emeka that pays insurance premium (in the form of 10% of their income) to their pastor that are spiritually 'minded'? continue to deceive yourself.

mba emeka: Didn't you notice that I didn't try to join issues with you hypocrites trying to decipher if tithing came before, within or after the law? I'm past that.

...and after spending time to read posts on tithe, you did not notice that it was tithers like you that kept coming up with the argument that there was tithe before during and after the law? you see why you are so easy to deceive? you don't even understand what you have been reading on this thread!

mba emeka: I simply tried to show you how a christian should reason especially during an issue involving arguments on biblical principles- to see the God and good in things.

How can you show me how a christian should reason when you can't even 'reason' out what is being discussed here?

mba emeka: As far as I'm concerned every seed given (tithes and offerings)to the church will be beneficial to it so I'd do just that.

..and did anybody say that money given to a church will not be beneficial to it?

mba emeka: You say you have no problems giving yet you've exhausted twenty something odd pages trying to convince people that they do not need to give to the church or pastors or that tithing as an act has been done away with.

don't make me say things i don't wanna say

mba emeka: Did any of us tell you that people should give under compulsion? No.

are you serious?

mba emeka: We said if you give the tithes, you are blessed and if you don't you miss the blessings associated with the tithes, period. Is that too hard to understand?

...and what is the blessing associated with tithe? did God tell you that some blessings will not be yours if you don't tithe? and you don't think this make tithe compulsory?

mba emeka: We said if you give the tithes, you are blessed and if you don't you miss the blessings associated with the tithes, period. Is that too hard to understand?

where is this teaching from? you preach what you don't understand or what you are unable to explain. The only thing you can say is that there are some blessings attached to tithe sha. what blessings are tithers receiving that non tithers are not receiving from God. Just name ONE! just ONE! and am very sure you will not be able to come up with any

If the same blessings you received from giving a tenth of your income to your pastor can be received by giving to those that desperately need the money what is the difference? You think God is impressed when you continue to give alms to the wealthy at the expense of the poor? continue to deceive yourself.

You allow yourself to be deceived by either the devil or your pastor (sometimes both of them na the same), you are easily influenced because you are either greedy, desperate, ignorant (cannot reason), scared or you just too stubborn to allow the spirit of God to lead you. How do you go about preaching a gospel with origin unknown. you are now part of the group that have elevated the doctrines of men above the word of God!

mba emeka: Don't answer.

too late. have answered already

Goshen360: Hey, na me give you that one 'like' o. Zikky loves you to NOT allow you continue in your GREED na. That's why his love for you is TOUCHING. Repent and stop teaching\taking from people.

I don dash am anoda like self.

Bidam: I think say you no go show for this thread..youR love for me is TOUCHING.

Na you sabi

Bidam: .the BIBLE SAYS LOVE THE LORD FIRST...IF I GIVE MY TITHES TO JESUS..THAT SHOWS I LOVE HIM FIRST.

How did you achieve the giving? You go heaven go drop ya tithe?

Bidam: KEEP QUIET..NA MY BOOK WEY I GO SOON LAUNCH NA IM I DEY QUOTE ALL THOSE THINGS FROM..U NO SEE SAY I NO ANSWER UNA..UNA NO LIKE D REVELATIONS ABI?

lol! world don spoil finish! ehnn! Bidam dey launch book! nothing we no go hear/read

Bidam: zikky stop rubbishing that fine post with your lies..the postER spoke the absOlUte truth..

The poster did not speak any truth jor can you imagine him saying we are telling people not give

Bidam: ..GOD IS A GOD OF ROUTINE.

which website you copy this one from

mba emeka: Here's the issue- they claim they don't have a problem giving their all to the poor. They sound so engaged in helping the widows and sanitizing the church of God. But judge their posts by the spirit of God and they fall short.

My friend go siddon somewhere jor You think you are the one with the spirit of God? with your greed inspired belief?

mba emeka: The tithe is just ten percent,

Who gave you the authority to re-define God's tithe as 10%?

mba emeka: If my message is helping to sanitize the house of God how come the atheists and pagans cheer me the most?

wrong conclusion. you need to exercise your brain more.

mba emeka: Could it be that my message isn't beneficial to the growth of the church?

it's because the message is not beneficial to the financial growth of the pastor

mba emeka: The tithe is just ten percent, if I can't part with that how would I part with the 'all' that I have?

the quality of your posts tells why you are so easily deceived (assuming you are a payer and not a collector). you read but you are unable to process. is anybody telling you not to give? you leave the issue and go about addressing un-related matters.

mba emeka: Look at the establishments that were otherwise churches and prayer houses in europe and the Americas. Why are the members steadily reducing and the structures now occupied by clubs and the likes? Could it be that the move of Gods spirit had stopped in such places? Could part of this be attributed to the shortage of funds and 'seeds' they were receiving?

why should shortage of funds be the reason for prayer houses losing members. The funds utilised by apostle Paul and others in spreading the gospel is suya money to modern day pastors (in today's money), yet they got true converts. with all the billions pumped into Christianity today, the results is majorly 'pseudo christians'! Keep deceiving yourself thinking money is the problem, well maybe for you.

mba emeka: Its just the tenth. Some churches organise these monies and channel them towards the 'poor and widows' but you see, people first gave them as 'tithes' because in the house of God there's an order of doing things.

I will repeat this one more time, please shine your eyes (and work your brain), you are free to donate 10% of your income to your church. So lets focus on the real issue, which is the matter of false doctrine/teachings in the church

mba emeka: One principle cannot supplant another. Retrace your steps and give the tithe. Its your insurance policy.

Matthew 15:7-9 (KJV)
7Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Joagbaje: Tithes is the smallest of christian givings . It's not about the money ,

It was never about the money. we agree on this part. what we are against is false teachings in the church.

Joagbaje: it's the diligence, if God had said a dollar per year. I may give God a million dollar by free will ,I will still do the one dollar . Because he has a reason for it.

But God did not give any specification in terms of percentages, so the man that determines in his heart to give 30% should be allowed to give his 30%. We do not need to burden him with the wahala of sharing his money in two parts 10% and 20% and giving it as two separate offerings. All you would have succeeded in doing is legalizing the 10% part of his giving which is against Christ laws.

Goshen360: Make I continue

i beg e do like that. if you continue, you fit go crash nairaland server (too much data)

Joagbaje: Abraham was father of faith on whose covenant we stand. He would not be a tither if it wasnt a spiritual thing. Why 10% why not 50% it must be a spiritual revelation.

Psalms 25:14
The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him;

this spiritual revelation, did it say that it is binding on christians? afterall Abraham offered burnt sacrfices which must have been a spritual revelation. even circumcision na spiritual thing for Abraham. What am saying is this; being a spiritual revelation does not translate to something that becomes applicable to Christians simply because you believe you now stand on Abrahams covenant. even the children of Israel had their own laws (the mosaic law) and tithing war booty was not part of it and the mosaic law was not given because daddy abraham did something similar.

If abrahams spiritual revelation says he should tithe 10%, did that same revelation says it must be carried forward in perpetuity (from generation to generation)? for those of you that were there when abraham got the revelation maybe you can tell us.

Joagbaje: Why 10% why not 50% it must be a spiritual revelation.

Psalms 25:14
The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him;

We also fear the lord. we are privy to that secret.

Joagbaje: Does one force anybody to tithe ?

Yes o! for example

1. When pastor tells the congregation that tithe is mandatory
2. when pastor tells non tithing congregation that tithe is a law
3. when pastor tell the non tithing congregation that they are robbing God
4. when pastor tells the non tithing congregation that tithe belongs to God
5. when pastor tells the non tithing congregation that they should watch out for the devourer

the list is endless o!

Joagbaje: if the word principle is am issue with you ,try not to miss the point. Tithing ,offerings ,prayers,fasting , alms giving existed before the law. They also existed in the law. If you claim tithing is done away with the law, Same thing should be binding on ,prayer ,fasting , offering ,alms giving etc etc. since they all existed before the law and in the law. That's the point .

@joagbaje, i understand your point from day one. Yes Abraham gave a tenth (tithe) before the law. No issue with this am not arguing that tithe came with the law. Yes offerings, alms giving existed before the law, am not arguing this. what i want is that you understand my position also and tell me if you don't agree with it, then also tell me why....

Joagbaje: if the word principle is am issue with you ,try not to miss the point. Tithing ,offerings ,prayers,fasting , alms giving existed before the law. They also existed in the law. If you claim tithing is done away with the law, Same thing should be binding on ,prayer ,fasting , offering ,alms giving etc etc. since they all existed before the law and in the law. That's the point .

......We know prayer, offering, alms giving existed before the law but do we practice it because it existed before the law? NO! do we pray, fast and give (offerings, alms giving e.t.c) because the law says we should give? NO! I am yet to understand why the fact that an act existed before the law should now becomes a LAW for Christians to adhere to! This is something you are not telling us. were these acts part of any law before Moses issued the law?

Joagbaje: If you claim tithing is done away with the law, Same thing should be binding on ,prayer ,fasting , offering ,alms giving etc etc.

Tithing as a requirement to bring a tenth of your agric produce to the priest/temple storehouse is done away with, just as any mosaic law (if any) that relates to prayer, fasting, offering e.t.c. are also things of the past.

Joagbaje: Jesus came under the law ,...

@image123, i hope you are reading & learning

Joagbaje: Which one of them. Tithes ,offering,or alms giving ?

This one below....

Joagbaje: Principles are basic spiritual laws that runs in Gods kingdom.

..and this one below...

Joagbaje: So prayer ,offerings ,worship,tithing, Alms giving ,honor to parents etc. have been spiritual principles in Gods kingdom .

... + this one....

Joagbaje: You don't supplant one principle for the other.

Joagbaje: Principles are basic spiritual laws that runs in Gods kingdom. Just as we have natural laws such as law of gravity. So prayer ,offerings ,worship,tithing, Alms giving ,honor to parents etc. have been spiritual principles in Gods kingdom .

@joagbaje, i see you have been reading strange books. what you wrote above is not from the bible. I don't know where you get tithe as a spiritual principle in God's kingdom from. Even Christ in mathew 23:23 referred to tithe as a matter of the law! he did not call it a spiritual principle. if Jesus and the apostles did not teach tithe as a spiritual principle, i wonder where you got this teaching from.

Joagbaje: You don't supplant one principle for the other. That's the error of those who believe in giving offering only. Or alms giving to poor only.

why not?

Acts 3:6 (KJV)
6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.

I believe you told us a number of times that tithe is a type of giving. When is it stated that Christians cannot replace one giving with another?

Joagbaje: That's the error of those who believe in giving offering only.Or alms giving to poor only.

before nkor? you want to give alms to dangote?

Joagbaje: Redemption began with abrahamic covenant

Galatians 3:17
And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

I don't see the correlation between Abrahams covenant and Christians giving a tenth of their income to their pastor/'church' Is the tithe to Melchizedek part of the abrahamic covenant?

Joagbaje: They didn't originate in the law to start with , so the abolishment of the law has to relevance to ordinances which precede the law.

Are you saying tithe is an ordinance which preceded the law?

I think you should also know that after the mosaic law was issued, pre-law practices that did not align with the requirements of the law were no longer considered.

Joagbaje: If we have to do away with tithes ,offerings ,then we must do away with prayer ,fasting, alms giving and free will giving.

I did not at anytime state that you should do away with giving a tenth of your income to your 'church'/pastor (afterall na your money), my position is that you cannot preach the giving of specific amounts as a must because by doing so, you 'legalize' the giving. i.e. Abraham gave not because it was God's law to give. Jacob made a promise to give a tenth of his blessings; a freewill giving not driven by any law.

Joagbaje: I agree motive should be right .

Thank you sir. the teaching of tithe changes motive. why teach a person who would ordinarily give 30% to give 10%? at this point he is giving not because that's what he wants to give, but because it is what you taught/coerced him to give.

Bidam: Malachi tells us to bring our tithes into the storehouse, “that there may be
meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts.”
Malachi 3:10
Paul wrote to the church at Corinth, “Upon the first day of the week let
everyone of you lay by him, as God hath prospered him.”
I Corinthians 16:2
These two scriptures indicate that your tithes are to be given to the place
of your feeding. The pasture into which you as sheep are
being nourished and fed by a shepherd (Pastor).

Did you ever consider the possibility that your pastor have been feeding you with hallucinating drugs all this time?

Bidam: The New Testament church and writers took for granted the practice of
tithing as the declared way of supporting the house of God. Scriptural
References: Luke 18:10-14: Jesus used a parable to illustrate the
difference between a Pharisee and his pride, and a publican, who was
blessed because of his humbleness. However, within the parable, Jesus
has the Pharisee say, “I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I
possess.” It was not the fasting or the giving of tithes that brought the
criticism, but rather the pride that caused the Pharisee to boast.
What he did was accepted, why he did it, was not. I believe that this is
tangible evidence that Jesus accepted tithing as the established way of
giving. Hebrews 7:8, “And here men that die receive tithes, but there He
receiveth them of whom it is witnessed that He liveth.” I Corinthians 16:2
Paul is obviously speaking of proportionate giving, a giving that is based
on the amount of income. Indeed, for those who insist that the New
Testament does not teach tithing, here is a good New Testament standard,
which of course exceeds 10%.

Copy & paste master. you are not tired of this your recycled internet posts. am sure the owners of the site you are copying from are even more crooked than most nigerian pastors. why don't you take time to read your bible instead of scanning the internet for materials that will support your illegal contributions

Joagbaje: It is hypocritical to say you believe in offering and alms giving and don't believe in tithes . They are all based on Same spiritual principles .

Since i don't understand what you meant by 'spiritual principles', i think it's safe for me to say my giving is not based on spiritual principles you have in mind. such givings (offerings & alms) have be annulled along with tithe.

Joagbaje: Except you say we should not give God anything ever again

Nobody is saying don't give. the discussion is about motivation for our giving.

Joagbaje: The same way we don't give tithes because the law say so.

So where can i find the divine command driving you tithing practice?

Joagbaje: The same way we don't give tithes because the law say so.

You can only speak for yourself. You cannot speak for Ola, image123 & bidam. Image123 is one person that believes he is still under the law.

By this time you should know that am not after the man that decides on his own to give 10% of his income to his pastor. I don't have anything against such giving. The issue (for me) here includes:
1. the teaching of tithe as a command from God that all Christians must tithe, Not tithing equates to disobedience.
2. Justification of (1.) above with the bible. especially the use of the O.T (Mosaic) law
3. the teaching that God defined his tithe as 10% of income
4. the teaching that giving 10% of your income to the pastor or the registered entity (a.k.a God's house or church) amounts to paying God's tithe

Do you think anybody will argue with you if you come here stating your giving a tenth of your income to your pastor is because that's how you want to give or as led by the spirit. I still won't have concern even if you say you were inspired by O.T tithing practice.

christemmbassey: Na wa to you o.:-(, i ask u to explain deut 14:22-29, and deut 26:12-13, u go explain Malachi 3, why are u like this? If u must know, i dont preach theology, i preach the gospel of Jesus. No wonder u're like this, you are a theologian , the only thing u know is the tricks they tanght u in school of theology, carnality wisdom of men and tradition of the jews, are u a pharisee or a sadducee, or a correct naija u b both? So that u can flex both sides. U know na, naija no de carry last, especially when it concerns scamming.

It's likely to be copy & paste (as usual). bidam could not find materials explaining deut 14 & 26 (because pastors don't touch that part of the bible), so had to make do with what was available.

Bidam: another way of subverting truth by hiding behind a funny facade of foolish queshion..thata scripture is as clear as noon day bro..don't subvert it. The tithes and offerings in the O.T. were used for the Temple and the Temple ministry (i.e., the priests, etc.)

Tithe was for the Levites assisting the priest and their family. Offerings were mainly (burnt) sacrifices, the priest (& levite) gets a portion (not burnt) for sustenance.

Bidam: 1 Co. 9:13-14 applies this principle to the N.T. church. "Do you not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? EVEN SO hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel." Verse 13 relates to the O.T. practice. Verse 14 carries this practice over to N.T. churches. Your tithes and offerings are for the support, upkeep, and ministry of your Church.

you are confused (as usual). what has verse 14 got to do with support, upkeep & ministry of the church?

shine your eye very well before making those reckless posts verse 14 refers to preachers of the gospel receiving sustenance through the gospel i.e. it was directed at those preaching the gospel.

Bidam: Tithes should never be designated--they are to be left free for use as the church body decides.

Where is this instruction from? your pastor's office? God already designated his tithe (to the levites). who are you to say God's tithe should not be designated? you no dey fear at all

unless you are talking about your pastor's tithe then i will agree with you that it should "be left free for use as the church body (pastor) decides"

Bidam: Where did i twist scriptures to justify my tithe practice? is it mat 23;23 that is as clear as the noonday? pls grow up.

see some (very recent) samples below

Bidam: There is no basic difference between the Old Testament and New Testament duties for believers regarding tithes. Everyone is expected to tithe to the Lord one tenth of their income.

Bidam: "Do you not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? EVEN SO hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel." Verse 13 relates to the O.T. practice. Verse 14 carries this practice over to N.T. churches. Your tithes and offerings are for the support, upkeep, and ministry of your Church. Tithes should never be designated--they are to be left free for use as the church body decides.

Bidam: The tithe means ten percent. By comparing Ge. 14:20 with He. 7:2 we see that the tithe is ten percent of one's income.

Bidam: Give the Lord first place in everything (Mt. 6:33). (2) Honor the Lord with your first fruits (Pr. 3:9-10). This means to set aside the tithe first--before all other bills and expenses. If you leave the tithe until last, God usually misses out. (3) Bring the tithe on the Lord's day (1 Co. 16:2).

Bidam: yeah..JESUS told me directly..you can't serve JESUS and money.

..and that's how I expect you to preach your tithe practice. If Jesus told you directly, you don't need to twist the scriptures to justify your tithe practice.

Bidam: Tithing is one of God's great antidotes to covetousness.

....who told you? You got this revelation in a dream or your pastor told you?