₦airaland Forum

Bidam: Yes...Faith through Christ is the word and that was why i said it is a spiritual principle that connects us back to the first man(Adam)..remember i said God uses natural acts of obedience on earth to connect us to heavenly blessing and purpose...and i still believe that things like marriage, worship,clothing,tithing, human government, and other foundations all have their beginnings in the Book of Genesis.

Have told you before, this copy and paste approach will take you nowhere. The post above is meaningless. What has connection to Adam or marriage, clothing & tithing having beginnings in Genesis got to do with Christian tithing? If you must quote someone teachings, first understand what that person was trying to achieve.

Bidam: this tithing issue is making you judge a brother erroneously..are you saying am not able to hear clearly from God on what to do and what not to do? Are you the Holy Spirit? For your info my pastor never told me that..It was a conviction from my heart after i gave my life to God.

No vex. It's not my fault na. You did not explain that your tithing was a direct instruction from God. It's because you have been trying to justify it with the bible. And I will respond if you continue to quote the bible.

Bidam: ..but one thing is certain in scriptures Abraham obeyed God in every aspect of the word(gen 12,gen14,gen15,gen17,gen18,gen22)..lesson learnt is i rather obey God than mere men.

Abraham obeyed God. Did God tell Abraham to tithe? Nobody is saying you should not obey God, when did God say you should tithe? You have only succeeded in obeying your pastor.

Bidam: ..just because it was recorded that Abraham tithed once doesn't mean He did not give to God at other times.The bible recorded Abraham as a friend of God(heavy statement).

Ask yourself, how Abraham could have tithed in the absence of a priest?we know Abraham had direct interaction with God.

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Bidam: ok. Did the OT ever quote the Levi payed tithes in Abraham?(heb7:9)..

...this statement has no relevance to the practice of tithing. It was never a basis for the Jewish tithing practice. The Hebrew writer saying this was just showing the superiority of Melchi's priesthood. For e.g. if you are a king of village and your grandfather was houseboy to the king in the next village, it simply means that other king is superior cos you served that other king as houseboy in your grandfather I.e you were in your grandfather's loin when he served that other king. You don't need to be in a trace to interpret something that simple

Bidam: they gave to God...just becos it was recorded once in scripture doesn't mean it wasn't a consistent life style they indulge in.

They gave to God. How? Which temple or priest received their tithe on a regular basis? You no think that part before you post.

Bidam: ..thank GOD you visited our website, another tither to our kingdom investment.

for your dream abi?

Bidam: ..i understand kingdom principles.

which one be kingdom principles? where is this principle taught in the bible?

wiegraf: My hope is the church doesn't get special treatment simply because it's the church, and that sort of seems to be the case.

Sorry to disappoint you but that how it is. Big church get special treatment. even in Nigeria, you think it will be easy to arraign Adeboye for any offence?

wiegraf: That's how it works when say an employee is caught breaking the law. The case is reported and the company still disciplines the employee. They could fire or demote him, etc, but again, there's still the crime to report to authorities. If the employers are discovered to have attempted a coverup of any sort they are prosecuted by authorities as well (if caught ie). That should apply here.

If reporting the case to the police will damage the brand, the company will deal with it internally. It's everywhere. But that is not to say it's right.

wiegraf: Are you implying that the church is indeed guilty?

No. am not. am leaving that to the courts. i don't have the facts.

wiegraf: I wouldn't see why they'd need to interfere if they weren't so. If he did do wrong and was genuinely regretful, yes, reporting himself is an option. It's been done before, people admitting to crimes, yes? Actually, morally speaking, I thought that was what is encouraged, yes? Legally, it certainly is.

@bolded, YES. What am asking is why is the relevant (legal/law enforcement) authority not doing anything to bring the people involved to justice? we all agree that committing a 'crime' is wrong (legal/moral), but it's rare to see an offender reporting himself. it's like accusing ibori of not reporting himself to the police.

Goshen360: Over the years as I looked CAREFULLY into the 'institutionalized' church gathering. I came to conclusion there're many things to up-root from that institutionalized gathering - 1. Ignorance 2. Unbelieve 3. Disbelieve.

You get work. i don't envy you

Goshen360: Imagine someone telling people "levi paid tithe in Abraham" and yet, he doesn't even understand the meaning of that scriptures in context. Are Christians levites?

This also applies to the poster that clicked 'like' for that particular post. am suspecting Ola..or my good friend, image123

Bidam: I believe that the principles of tithes and offerings are legitimate kingdom dynamics and their practice must be based on the principles of LOYALTY AND CONVENANT rather than blind obedience...thank you.

You have reduced your tithing practice to 'belief' now. that's good

Bidam: I believe that the principles of tithes and offerings are legitimate kingdom dynamics and their practice must be based on the principles of LOYALTY AND CONVENANT rather than blind obedience....

hmmmm, no be small thing. which one be 'legitimate kingdom dynamics'? na my friend Bidam dey 'blow' grammar like this? i don see where you do the copy and paste for here ---->( http://www.kingdomnetwork.org/quienes_en.php ). This copy and paste approach will not help you. anyways, since i like the grammar, i decided to copy & paste the part you left out (see below)

"The contribution of financial resources must be activated by the discernment of prophetic purpose and the nature of our mission".

You see why i said you were speaking in meaningless tongues, am sure you don't understand what you posted above.

Bidam: nope...that is to establish proper father/son order....

come o, this stuff you are dropping here, is it from ya pastor? which one be 'proper father/son order' again Abraham blood dey flow for Levi vein na, abi Abraham no be Levi great grand papa again? maybe you are talking about a spiritual father/son relationship which i don't understand.

Bidam: ...understanding of the "power of the tithe" connect us in order through Abraham. Levi, the fourth generation of Abraham's family was connected through the tithe.

you don come with this your connection talk again Soooo, tithers are not just connected through Abraham,they are connected in 'order'. if tithers are routing their connection through Abraham, just help me with this one question please; what are tithers connecting to?

Bidam: This has great significance to the order of the Church.

Even the church get 'order'. is it tithing 'order'?

Bidam: God uses natural acts of obedience on earth to connect us to heavenly blessing and purpose. Marriage, worship, clothing, tithing, human government, and other foundations all have their beginnings in the Book of Genesis.

Sooo, are you saying levi paying tithe in Abraham was a 'natural act of obedience'? please confirm.

wiegraf: I don't get your meaning here at all, it does not look that waay from where I'm sitting. Perhaps you could elaborate pls?

i interpret that portion of your post to mean the church frustrating efforts of the local authorities. i.e. to ensure the police are unable to do their job. please correct me if am wrong.

Bidam: everything my friend it has a spiritual connotation..but since you don't understand the principle behind tithing you have a choice not to...free will my friend...no one is pointing a gun to your head to tithe.

This is the problem i have with you guys. anytime you find you've been boxed into a corner, you begin to speak in meaningless tongues oya tell us the spiritual connotation in levi paying tithe in Abraham ...or maybe that was just you making a dash for the emergency exit

wiegraf: Following the law of the land would usually do. The law of the land in many places is that these be reported to local authorities. They weren't. Was there a conspiracy? Did superiors aware of these crimes interfere in a way that violated the law? Did they order or encourage breaches of the local laws?

You don't blame the church for that. It's like blaming ibori for the federal government's inability to bring him to justice.

wiegraf: Also consider that known offenders were simply relocated to other regions by their superiors. There could be some legal issues there as well.

it will be much easier to discuss this if a request for extradition was made and rejected by the requested state or institution.

wiegraf: Outside of law, for context, consider the organization involved considers itself some sort of moral authority. They're behavior has been astronomically self serving and hypocritical. Clearly evil as far as the vast majority of moral codes are concerned.

nobody can argue against this. it will be wrong of the church to 'hide' a crime. that said, i think the discussion/argument here will be more interesting if based on facts. what i observed here is that views/opinions are driven more by emotions and less of fact.

Bidam: And as i may so say levi also, who receiveth tithes payed tithes in Abraham.(heb 7:9).

you people will just post a verse from the bible to show activity if levi payed tithe in Abraham, what has that got to do with christians paying tithe? or you want us to pay tithe in Abraham as well?

kmcutez: Well I blame all catholic parents. No catholic parent should be allowed to have kids, and if they do , their kids should be taken away from them.

Please grow up! why do you have to insult every member of the catholic church?

plaetton: Or do you also think that it is the duty of the child victims to report to the police?

i want to believe this is public knowledge since you guys know so much. The question is what is the police doing to bring the affected priests to justice. Are they waiting for the church to first report them before they act? it's not just the catholic church, most institutions will first consider the potential damage before taking any action. you will not achieve much if you are waiting for the institution to report them.

plaetton: Or do you also think that it is the duty of the child victims to report to the police?

for the church to take action, somebody must have reported the case. which is easier? reporting to the police or reporting to another priest or bishop?

chukwudi44: Did you read his post? You really expected me to give him a decent response? He suggested the entire catholic clergy should be locked up and sodomised and you find nothing wrong with such statement?

musKeeto is right, i don't see much difference between your response and oyedepo's supporters. i honestly don't think you will achieve much fighting on behalf of the Pope. If people believe the pope should be arrested they should go ahead, though i don't see that happening.

Image123: chei so you want to collect tithe but you don't want to give ba? if i don't know anything, at least i know how you feel talking about tithes.

did you read me asking for tithe? i said it will cost you 10% of your annual salary wetin concern tithe for this matter?

Image123: i read it from each of you, abi tithe is not under the law again ni?

you need to upgrade your knowledge o! do you even have a bible? anyways you don't need one. evangelist bishop prophet Goshen360 publications will suffice. you need to visit our bookstore ASAP! we accept both local and foreign currencies (USD, pounds, euro & yen).

Image123: i read it from each of you, abi tithe is not under the law again ni?

shine your eye very well when reading nobody said tithe is not under the law, what i read people say is that the tithe command under the law is not applicable to Christians.

Image123: i don't need to ask Him. i thought you guys teach that Christ has paid tithes already.

you don't know anything Jesus no dey pay tithe. what he did was to cancel the Jewish tithing practice. you need to come for 2 weeks crash program on bible knowledge at our church (with evangelist bishop prophet Goshen360 in charge ), but it will cost you a token; just 10% of your annual salary

Image123: i thought you guys teach that Christ has paid tithes already.

where you read this one? paid tithe to who?

Image123: have you given your tithe?

am sure if Jesus show for your house today, you go ask am the same question. This your obsession with tithe don become something else

Joagbaje: Don't miss the point there. It's the principle you should look at. God has pleasure in the prosperity of his servant.

i think you are dodging ma question. You said God has pleasure in the prosperity of his servant, then you added that God want us to to be loaded so we can help others. i want to know the category of people that belong to this 'others' group. Are they God's servants? simple question like this, you begin unnecessary dribble.

Joagbaje: Psalms 35:27
“Let the Lord be magnified,
Who has pleasure in the prosperity of His servant.”

Are you sure the author of psalms was not referring to himself? You know David was loaded am not so sure he had you in mind when writing that Psalms You might want to claim it sha (with faith), but am sure David no send you one bit

Joagbaje: God has not changed dear . He always want us buoyant enough to help others. And he's not again your pleasure.

If you are saying God want some group of people to be rich they will be able to help the poor. one questions sir; Who are the 'us' and which category of people belong to the 'others' group?

@truthislight, good work the guy no expect your gra-gra. Am sure he is re-strategizing now

Lol @potentpraise you are a clown. But I still like you sha. Appears you are here to complain. If you want to pay tithe, go ahead but don't preach it. Preaching of tithe is false gospel.

potentpraise: You are back again, you brother Goshen has agreed with me that tithes still reign supreme in our christian lives.

Yes, for those that chose to live in bondage.

potentpraise: We are not under the law and also the abolishment of the Law does not necessarily mean all have been cancelled, but some of the specific things like sacrifice of burnt, peace, trespass and sin offerings. Also the Aaronic priesthood has been abolish, but most of the other things are intact. For instant, paying of thither, you should not kill, you should not convert your neighbors wife, you should not steal from your neighbor, you should keep the Sabbath day holy, you should not lie or bear false witness all these are part of Moses commandments that the New Testament still uphold.

You should not worship other gods but the Almighty God its still valid today... because there is an update to a particular application does that mean the application is not valid after the update?

So you are now the one deciding what has been abolished and what stays? Na wa o.