₦airaland Forum

Image123: you happen to be dodging at least three of my questions gosh. Tithing is not limited to the law or before or even after. You're attempting to limit the Word.

you are confused. there is nothing like limiting the word here. it was image123 that told me tithe belong to God. the only tithe that belonged to God is tithe according to Mosaic Law, so what tithe are you paying? if you are paying tithe before or after the law, you are paying the one that belongs to your pastor

Bidam: ..imagine a hypocrite like zikky bastardising these offices na wa o.

Bidam this your vex no be small thing o all because am trying to remove the olumo rock clouding your vision

Goshen360: "Every scripture applies to the church".

Then you should start apply scriptures that tells you to stone people to death. You should start apply scriptures that tells you to kill your children when in rebellion against you. You should start apply scriptures that doesn't allow you to mix more than one cloth materials or mix more than one farming. You should start apply scriptures that tells you to kill animals for sacrifices. Going back to before the law, you should start applying burnt offerings, marrying more than one wife after all, your Abraham you hold dearly for pre-tithe married two wives. ALL of these things applies to you - start doing them.

Don't mind image123 jare the man will only see money related matter even if it was never directed at him. if every scripture applies to the church i wonder why image123 is not preaching and practicing Christ directive as stated in mathew 5:29-30 (below)

Matthew 5:29-30(NIV)
29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

Amputees go plenty for church well well including image123. in fact considering the manner the man been twisting the scriptures, his brain should be taken out

Bidam: i wonder o.

@Bidam, i no see you again. wetin happen na? abi you still dey search internet for something to copy?

JIL: ^^^
You are just perambulating without actually making any sense from your post. We are waiting for potentpraise to expatiate on the rubbish you wrote.

Lol! i no fit shout abeg

Image123: When you give to the church, you are giving to a collective body, an assembly of believers. When you give to an individual believer, you have given to a person or child of God. An individual doesn't make a church, it is an assembly. When Jesus was defining a church, He didn't define it as one person, it is an assembly. See Matthew 18v15-17.
The church is God's building or house. The individual is not the church. The house of God is usually a them, us, we. It is not an individual.
1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
Also read 1Corin 16v1,2. Christians can bring offerings when they go to church (assemble as a church).

I will not argue over your definition. so tell us how you give to church. is it by giving to specific bank account owned by an entity different from the church? (afterall you defined the church as an assembly). is it by giving the offering to an institution registered with the corporate affairs commission? or is it by giving it to the pastor? if i bring my offering and share it among 10 members of congregation, have i not given to the church? afterall the numbers that make up the church was not stated in your post above. you can also tell us where it was stated in the bible that there are offerings that can only be given to the assembly which cannot be substituted for offerings that can only be given to individuals./

Image123: Biblical giving looks at face.

what are you saying here?

Image123: Jesus was generous but He made distinction between giving to 'dogs' and children. He knew not to give 'pearls' to swine.

where this one happen? don't attempt playing smart by saying i should focus on the word 'give' we are talking about making distinction among christians here. where is it stated that we should discriminate? or where is it stated that pastors should receive special type of offering?

Image123: There is a tithe that belongs to God.

what tithe belong to God in Christianity? is it the tithe meant for the Levite? which is theirs by inheritance? which tithe sir?

Image123: If you want to give another tithe/tenth to your neighbour, you are very free, but don't mix the two as the same or substitute.

every single giving you make is a tenth of something. with every giving, you can define it to be a tenth if you so wish. and where is it stated that there are special tenth for each giving which cannot be substituted? how did you arrive at this conclusion?

Image123: It is wrong to pull one scripture and use it to disregard/disobey another like you are doing with Matthew 25 and Matthew 23. that's what i'm showing with the disregard and marriage analogy i gave.

You have not shown anything. in mathew 23:23 Christ referred to the law, but out of desperation and greed you chose to interpret that verse in isolation. Did Christ say you should tithe to the house of God? did Christ say you tithe to pastor? Did Christ redefined tithing practice in mathew 23:23? the answer is a big NO!. All he said was for the pharisees & scribe should continue tithing in accordance with the LAW! to interpret that verse you need to go back to Leviticus where God defined his tithe and Numbers where God defined how it will be paid. Did Christ state it should be done any other way? So between image123 & zikkyy, who is doing the substitution? who between us is substituting giving by taking collections meant for the Levites and giving it to his pastor? who between us is substituting giving by redefining God's definition of tithe to suit his greed motivated desires?

Image123: All the law is summed up in love, and Christ has fulfilled the law. Are we still to love?

the law does not equate to love. we been through this before, your love for money has hardened your heart. Love could not be achieved with the law. for e.g. you guys pay tithe because the law of moses says you should and not because you love God (otherwise your argument would not be based on the need to meet the requirement of the law/ mathew 23:23) Christ fulfilling the law imply that the actions of a true Christian are not driven by the need to obey the law. If you are a true Christian your acts will be driven by love.

Image123: Even Jesus(the great teacher) was often misunderstood. God is often misunderstood, and His Word is often misunderstood. Grammar is a cause of misunderstanding.

what are you saying? that God cannot communicate properly? you think our God is a God of confusion? So it's God's fault people don't understand him? Take my advise, the less you talk, the better for you.

Bidam: yes i just got back from church say make i siddon look before i gather my thoughts make i hammer una the message..

which thoughts you dey gather? copy and paste master like you abi na materials you want to gather

Goshen360: I can't even see the bros viewing this topic again o.....your words are true, man of God. Image123 don run away o .

i know the man very well. even that small response na out of shame (just like the pharisees between 30-33A.D). his G.O will have to log in (using image123's I.D) to answer that question

Bidam: yes i just got back from church say make i siddon look before i gather my thoughts make i hammer una the message.. As if the Holy Spirit of greed is reading our thoughts the pastor quoted mal 3:8..

Your pastor did not disappoint. this na the year for your pastor to hammer am sure his sermons for the last 6-7weeks revolves around this topic. and he will not stop till his money is complete you think say the man no like private jet

Image123: i wonder why you reached that conclusion.

Before nkor? when you decide to see the needy as dogs, what do you expect

Image123: For instance, you can't say we're all one in christ and disregard your elders and parents, or marry your sister or a man because there is no male or female, Jew or Greek.

I don't know what you are talking about here o!

Image123: Observe the context and allow the wisdom of God to be profitable in directing you.

I did just that. Your post showed that pastors are a higher or superior breed while the poor and needy are not fit to eat from the same table. abi what does child and dog signify?

Image123: Giving alms to the needy is not the same as bringing an offering to God's house. They are both good and should both be done, not substituted to one another. You can't worship me or pray to me for instance, give to God the things that belong to God.

What belongs to God and what belong to satan? you are making more blunders almsgiving now amount to giving to lucifer abi? you are desperately trying to make unnecessary distinctions here. what do you mean by substitution? if am giving to the poor, God is not pleased abi? so if i bring my offering to 'church' and share it among the needy in church as thanksgiving that is not valid abi? God no recognise that one. who make up the 'church' am i giving my offering to the building or the people?

BTW where is God's house? God no dey your house abi? you only meet God in your church abi? where is it stated that Christians should bring offering to God's house?

Go back to church (where the spirit of God will guide you) and reflect over what i have written above *afterall God no dey your house*

Goshen360: Na eim you never still understand comprehension passage and context .....especially Hebrews 7 and your Matthew 23:23. If you're asked to answer grammatical context of Matthew 23:23 that, who was Jesus talking to in the grammatical context of Matthew 23:23 Oya, what will your answer be

Image123 said he is a pharisee some time back. This your question too strong. Pharisee no dey answer strong questions you will observe anytime Jesus harrass them they will walk away in shame, i expect image123 to do the same

Goshen360: Viewing this topic: Bidam, Boomark(m), Zikkyy(m), Goshen360(m)

Una dey see 'church' wey say him dey go 'church' o Abi una don finish 'church' ni? Abi na 'church' una dey view tithe thread from Chei, tithe no make some people concentrate again o Abi 'church' don return from 'church' ni

me i don reach house long ago e be like Bidam still dey prepare to go church

Image123: oga na grammar dey cause misunderstanding, and na misunderstanding dey cause division, sect and denomination.

grammar no fit cause mis-understanding mis-understanding can be caused by inability to comprehend, deliberate twisting of what is written for personal interest or to achieve set goals e.t.c but not due to grammar.

Goshen360: I know say you'll never go beyond Matthew 23:23 because E BE LIKE SAY you be part of the SCRIBES and PHARISEES wey Oga Jesus dey talk to na.....

Image need a complete bible. the bible he is currently using start and ends at mathew 23:23

Image123: i guess you've attained then mr.perfect. But I'm certain that we ought to fulfill all righteousness and it is not meet to give the children's bread to dogs.

So the needy is now dogs abi? just because i gave them the money you want me to dash pastor, ehn image123 pastor is now child of God while the needy in church and outside can be considered dogs you see yourself you see what greed can do to your reasoning pastor and needy members of congregation no dey the same level again?

Image123: It pleased them to give. It's a little different from the twist "they gave AS it pleased them". Be careful with the distortion,

Lol! na grammar you dey correct for here jobless tither

Image123: when are you going to come up higher? The level of both voluntary and percentage giving awaits you. You ought to give unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that belong to God.

what do you mean by 'higher'? i pay my tax, bills and other government dues & rates (Ceaser), and i express my love for God and neighbour by doing ma best (as the Lord has prospered me) to meet the needs of the needy and church. how high do you want me to go again, do you want me to contribute my self? i already do that by contributing time and knowledge; or you want me to give all ma earnings to pastor?....that is not going to happen

Boomark: Romans 15:26-27
New King James Version (NKJV)
26 For it pleased those from Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the POOR among the saints who are in Jerusalem. 27 It pleased them indeed, and they are their debtors. For if the Gentiles have been partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister to them in material things.

they were not asked to pay tithe to help the saints, but as it pleased them they made a certain contribution to the POOR among the saints.

It pleased them to give. That's giving driven by true love, it is not percentage giving driven by personal interest/greed as preached by Bidam/Image123 & Ola. Only the Apostles could make true Christians out of converts, modern day pastors are after their stomach that's why we have greedy congregation.

Image123: take your tithe along, tithe is right in God's sight.

have paid ma tithe already. gave it to the needy ma church don't need ma tithe, they got more than enough from our voluntary contributions. we show true love in our church, not percentage love

Bidam: @segegs..lemme let you on a secret...you don't need to come begging pple for things..it is all about your connection with God..talk to Him. He is a loving Father...i remember Jesus saying"seek ye first the kingdom of God..i can testify to you that God gave me things i ask him using pple..it is about hearing clearly what he tells you anytime you pray to him..u coming here to tell me not to tithe kind destroy your christian testimony..stay blessed.stick to God not to doctrines of men.

By the way, you told me an hour and half (1-1/2) before this time/post (above) you were preparing for church, you are still preparing. you be woman, talk true

Bidam: ..it is about hearing clearly what he tells you anytime you pray to him..

with what i have been reading here, i find this difficult to believe o! Bidam, hearing clearly? when you cannot even read clearly! How are sure it's not your pastor wispering in your head/ears? Lol!

Bidam: you dey craze we dis your atheist queshion..wen we get to heaven you can ask father abraham yourself.lol

You are the one stated here that Abraham tithed on a regular basis, so you should have the answer na

Bidam: bro..no mind this tight fisted antithers jare..God don bless them but wen e come to pay back time na wahala..the unrighteous mammon strong o.

It is not about giving. It is about false teachings in the church. Some of these people you call tight fisted antitithers actually give much more than you tithers.

Bidam: because some charlatans have cirmvemted the purpose of tithes and is not clearly stated by paul in his epistles doen't negate the fact that it shuldn't be practised by Christians..the principles are ok..and i don't agree it is legalistic..

I believe anybody that want to give 10% of his/her income to his/her church is free to do so. What is wrong is the teaching of 10% giving as a biblical command or requirement. This is the lie we are fighting. By forcing 10% or your congregation, you are either forcing those that can give more to now give less or forcing those that cannot afford the 10% to give more than what they can afford. Paul said that people should give as God as prospered them and as they determined in their heart, not by force. The teaching of 10% is not in line with teaching of the Apostles. If members of church decides on their own to give 10% no problem with that. but don't teach them 10% giving, that is very wrong.

Bidam: ..i believe it is a systematic and consistent way of seeing that the body of Christ does not lack funds for the efficient running of the gospel..

Nobody is saying the body of Christ should be starved of fund. The problem pastors are facing is that they have been unable to get the congregation to love. having failed in that department, they resort to coercion/manipulations to squeeze out cash from the congregation.

Bidam: ..If u love the Lord a mere 10pcent should be a starting point..

na wa for you Bidam! so our love for God is now expressed in percentages? and how did you arrive at this minimum threshold? was it God that told you, cos it's not written anywhere.

Bidam: ehya..why u come just now wey i wan prepare for church?anyway keep dem coming i will reply wen i get back.

am going to church maself. i will be back conclude on your case

Bidam: ..the bible is explicitly clear on tithes..Jesus even went further to tell you guys it shuldn't be a difficult thing to practise since the hypocritical pharisee made it their lifestyle(mat 23:23)..

When did Jesus informed Christians that tithing shouldn't be a difficult thing to practice?

Bidam: ..The only requirement i can see so far concerning the teachings and saying of Jesus and others is that it is not mandated to follow OT rules about crimes and punishments, warefare, slavery, diet,circumcision, sacrifice, feastdays, sabbath observance,ritual cleanness(john1:16-17;acts 13:39; rom2:25-29;8:1-4; 1 cor9:19-21;gal2:15-16;eph2:15)..but NOT on tithes and offerings.

What other explanation do you require before you know that the OT tithing rule is no longer required. Since you agree it was a rule, and you have have been told the tithe was the Levites inheritance, did you read in the bible where God passed the inheritance of the Levites to pastors? or you don't know what inheritance means?

Bidam: i said before father/son relationship maybe u refuse to see that or ignored it when you started preaching your logical sermons..and yes Adam was the first human creation so evrything goes back to him cos we are from him or do you have a contrary opinion?

Whether father/son or mother/daughter is of no relevance to the discussion. you have not been able to show how Adam being the first human creation makes tithing compulsory for Christians. We can discuss father/son relationship on another thread. This thread is for tithe, so focus on explaining why you believe tithing is a command/requirement for Christians. Leave Adam out of this matter.

Bidam: priests are meant to offer sacrifices as a mediator between God and man...Abraham offered sacrifices to God even though God never instituted the office of a priest at that time...look @ God's intent and purpose even before the levi came on the scene..."you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation."(exodus19:6).

My question was who received Abrahams tithe. was God collecting Abraham's tithe himself? In what form was the tithe rendered? Since you are so sure that Abraham tithed, you can tell us how.