₦airaland Forum

honeric01: Then why participate in what you don't understand? to capture the attention of the pagans holding a pagan feast at that same time? isn't that unscriptural? isn't that man-made? deceptive too? the kingdom of God was never meant for quantity, rather for quality and as you can see, the effect/result of Christmas favors the devil more than anyone else, so whose kingdom exactly does Christmas progress?




Yes, it's wrong to bring in the traditions of men while relegating Christ's teachings to the backroom, we have all seen what this activity has done to the body of Christ, it has caused proliferation and a tool for "weak Christians" to further fall into sins, whatever won't bring glory to God should never be encouraged and Christmas is one of them as we can all witness.

I didn't condemn xmas on personal view, the reasons are all in our eyes unless you want to pretend you're not seeing the harm it's doing to the body of Christ. i have answered your questions before from the previous comments of mine, you can go back there and answer. Not washing of hands before eating is a "mere" law which was never from Jesus nor God in the first place, that was a law passed down by Moses, i don't see any spiritual connection with washing or not washing of hands but there's a lot of spiritual connections with how xmas gives room to alot of people to do/act unthinkable things and at the same time serve the gods (indirectly) they don't understand.

Go back to my earlier post for what Jesus said about the traditions of men, you can also help yourself with this:

Mat_15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mar_7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Col_2:22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?


1Ti_4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Heb_13:9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

Mr Homeric, you are the one talking about traditions of men not me. I have asked if Jesus was saying that it was a sin to require that be washed before eating or was more concerned that this activity has been elevated above God laws. We should make references that are relevant.

You keep talking about the impact of Xmas on the potential to lead people to sin. I have asked some questions, what proportion of Xmas celebrants are true Christians? Is it the Muslim that celebrate Xmas that is led to sin? Are you saying you don't find a Christian whose faith is further strengthen from celebrating Christ? I will tell you I have. Are you saying you don't find a non Christian drawn closer to Christ from through Xmas? I will tell you I have. I have shown that Christians and non Christians sin just by participating in other 'approved' Christian activities, are we then to scrap every activity or scrap Christianity?

ijawkid: Ok let me say it out clearly before you read a wrong meaning to all what I've been saying.............its a sin to immerse Christ into pagaÑism.....so engaging in xmas celebration is a SIN.....you don rest??.......

The truth is no right thinking christian would have even started the celebration of Christs birthday.........celebrating birthdays itself was associated with pagans.........don't you get it zikky??...............smh!!!!!.............celebrating Jesus' birthday is nothing but waste of time.........these are my final words......FLEE from paganism.......thank you.....

You see yourself. You keep dancing around. Afraid to take a stand. Now you have denied the position you took earlier.

TroGunn: Your repeatedly asking where "Christ stated that we should not celebrate his birthday" implied it had to be expressly stated in the Bible to be taken as "proof", hence my cocaine analogy. Or maybe I read that wrong.

You read wrong my brother. It was the anti Xmas crew that kept saying Xmas is not expressly stated in the bible and therefore wrong. If anybody adopt this position, it is only fair that they show to us where in the same bible it was also expressly stated that Xmas should not be celebrated. If I say it is wrong for anybody's to block his street and party simply because it is not stated in the Nigeria constitution that they are allowed to it, I must also be able to show from the constitution that they are not allowed to, otherwise it becomes my personal opinion. Hope you understand that.

eddy spice: i will pick #2 because it was instituted by them in order to allow non belivers bcome christian withoutt removing pagan traces from d festival.hence thier becoming christian was base not on God's love

You chose #2 meaning you don't have issues with the concept of celebrating Christ birthday. I can see your issue has to do with implementation which i very much agree with. Thanks

ijawkid: Christmas is pagan because everything about it was gotten from idol worshiPpers a.k.a pagans....is this answer not clear enough for you??.........

You can also ask yourself this question to help you with an answer to your question...

Would Jesus and the apostles do christmas??........YES or NO.....

Thanks. I can conclude from your post above that celebrating Christ is not a sin. You are just not happy that the pagans beat you to it Meaning if it was started by Christians and done my way, there will be no problem. I can live with that.

honeric01: Santa claus, the flying elf, (what do they stand for? who are they? who's santa claus?) gifts from the north-pole (where is this north pole? what does these gifts represents? what is the symbolic/spiritual implication of these annual gifts brought from the "north-pole"? who's residing at this north-pole? maybe one of the fallen angels or the sun god who is likely to be satan himself or his right-hand angel?

Noth pole ke and i thought those gifts were from the nearest walmart store Satan chilling in the North pole? This is serious stuff. But also know that the product you use on a daily basis must have been produced at the North pole as well so you are not immune. Consider those stuff on sales/discount, there could be Christmas leftovers from stuff manufactured by satan in the North pole.

honeric01: We are discussing Christianity here where most of what you're suppose to do/act/say must represent Christ in all manner, Jesus's presence on earth was to abolish any similarities to the things of the world that is found in worshiping God, he came to show us the way, a way where we don't have to partake in the doctrines of men/traditions of men in order to deceive ourselves into thinking these doctrines are what draws us closer to God, rather the more we do them, the farther God's to us.

I agree with the first part, but i am not sure i completely agree with the second part. True we should not think that it is these doctrines that draw us closer to God. Maybe it helps for some people i don't know so am not going to comment on it. What i don't agree with is for you to say it takes you farther away from God, you don't have a basis for such statement. It's just your personal opinion.

honeric01: The more popular these festival has been, the worse the world is becoming, do you actually think Christmas is drawing anyone closer to God? look around you, more atrocities are committed during this festival and this is actually what the devil derive joy in.

My brother leave matter. is there any thing drawing people to God these days? Its not just Christmas, atrocities are committed even when churches hold their convention and congress, a lot of things happen during night vigil self. With more and more people in church is society any better? This is not just a Christmas thing. Do we then scrap Christianity? tell me.

honeric01: Jesus never came to make anyone enjoy or party till dawn, he came to make the world hate those who choose to follow him, his disciples were never loved/fancied/liked by the world because they were always salient and was VISIBLY known to act/speak/do things different from the world.

What are you saying here. That Christians should not live the good life? they should live like apostle paul? probably squatting without accommodation. Are you saying Christians should not hustle?

honeric01: Lastly, yes it makes it pagan, whatever draws people away from God is of the devil, whatever makes people fall by the wayside is of the devil, whatever makes people slip into sin is of the devil, this is why we must flee away from any appearance of sin which is of the devil. Christmas favors the devil and his host than any body else because during these period, his kingdom grows bigger. (Because it's colored to look like a "christianed thing does not make it christian"

Are you sure you read my post very well? These were my questions:
1. can we say the giving of gift (at any other time in the year) is a pagan act?
2. can we say decorating my house with plants/flowers (at any other time of the year) is a pagan act?
3. Can we say the burnt offering to God using farm animals is a pagan act, because the pagans also used farm animals for their burnt offerings?
4. can we the passover in remembrance of Christ is a pagan act because peeps were getting drunk at such events?
5. Can we say go to church is pagan because some other peeps go there with un-holy motives?

Which part of my question are you responding to?

honeric01: [b]Unless you can show me where the early Christians were seen celebrating it, it's nothing but a paganic culture.

I am not the one to show you. I never claimed it was there. You are the one condemning the act. it your responsibility to show why Christians should not be celebrating Christ.

TroGunn: We have all the details of God's instructions necessary for one to worship God acceptably in the Bible as is.

My thoughts exactly! how come my peeps keeps avoiding my questions

TroGunn: Christ's command to celebrate his death is enough to remember him and the enormous love he has for humans.

This is your personal opinion.

TroGunn: No additions, especially from pagan sources, are required.

I agree we don't need additions from pagan sources.

ijawkid: Lol.....zikky I've always known you to be a sincere person........with all the facts presented I believe you should be able to answer the question you asked me..............you wan put me for tight corner I think??.........

Before nko? you people wan play me wayo for here. abeg answer the question jor

plappville: @Zikkyy, if you think the Pope just woke up one day and said...."YES" as from today Jesus Birthday will be celebrated on 25th december, then you lie!

But i no talk so na why you say i lie Lol!

plappville: If you know How far he went before this date was accepted by others of His brethren, you will not be looking for just say "YES OR NO" answer here.

You dey there? how you take know were you a member of the council?

plappville: Scripture has to be qouted when discussing Christ. Its not how you wants it, but How God already penned it down. None can change it even if they tempered.

If God already penned it down you should be able to say yes or no na.

TroGunn: Please learn to discern when your question, rhetorical or not, is being adressed.

Dec 25th as Christ's birth date is a fraud because it couldn't have been that month but around October, and it remains a fraud irrespective of whether one knows the exact date or not. No one knows the date, but clear evidence shows it couldn't have been during the depth of winter in December.

Oga, you are way off target.

truthislight: What Does the Bible
Say About
Christmas? The Bible’s answer The Bible does not give the date of Jesus’ birth, nor
does it say that we should celebrate his birthday. As
McClintock and Strong’s Cyclopedia states: “The
observance of Christmas is not of divine
appointment, nor is it of NT [New Testament]
origin.” Instead, an examination of the history of Christmas
exposes its roots in pagan religious rites. The Bible
shows that we offend God if we try to worship him
in a way that he does not approve of.—Exodus 32:5-7. History of Christmas customs 1. Celebrating Jesus’ birthday: “The early Christians did not celebrate [Jesus’] birth
because they considered the celebration of
anyone’s birth to be a pagan custom.”—The
World Book Encyclopedia. 2. December 25: There is no proof that Jesus was born on that date. Church leaders likely
chose this date to coincide with pagan
festivals held on or around the winter
solstice. 3. Gift-giving, feasting, partying: The Encyclopedia Americana says: “Saturnalia, a
Roman feast celebrated in mid-December,
provided the model for many of the merry-
making customs of Christmas. From this
celebration, for example, were derived the
elaborate feasting, the giving of gifts, and the burning of candles.” The Encyclopædia
Britannica notes that “all work and business
were suspended” during Saturnalia. 4. Christmas lights: According to The Encyclopedia of Religion, Europeans
decorated their homes “with lights and
evergreens of all kinds” to celebrate the
winter solstice and to combat evil spirits. 5. Mistletoe, holly: “The Druids ascribed magical properties to the mistletoe in
particular. The evergreen holly was
worshiped as a promise of the sun’s
return.”—The Encyclopedia Americana. 6. Christmas tree: “Tree worship, common among the pagan Europeans, survived after
their conversion to Christianity.” One of the
ways in which tree worship survived is in the
custom of “placing a Yule tree at an entrance
or inside the house in the midwinter
holidays.”—Encyclopædia Britannica.

Oga truthislight, why do you keep repeating what we already know.Just answer the simple question, and lets close this case.

plappville: You are not after to accept the truth from the Scripture, you are just after keeping your pagan feast.
I thought you seek Scripture truth, but this thread has been exposing you gradually!

Lol! exposing me to what? ehn sister plappville? if you rely on what you read here to determine my true character, you don dive rock be that!

I don't know what truth you want me to accept. is it your version of the truth or ijawkid's version of the truth? What pagan feast am i keeping if on Christmas day i decided to spend some quality time with my family? You are yet to tell me what is pagan about peeps 'chopulating' specially prepared Christmas rice and chicken on December 25th Was the chicken purchased from a sango shrine?

plappville: What yes, My answers are base on the Scriptures, you can read, so you have the chioce to accept them or let them go for someone else that values Gods truth!

Na wa oh if you cannot say yes, on what basis then do you condemn the act of celebrating birthdays. it shows you are not sure, and it's proof your condemnation is not supported by the bible.

One thing i have shown here is that nobody has been able to prove that the act of celebrating Christmas will lead the celebrant to hell. What that means is that if done right (i.e. without the o.rgies and with a true focus on Christ) there are no issues with celebrating the birth of Christ. The other issue i wanted to resolve is that we should be able to differentiate what activities is actually pagan practice and what activities are not. The fact that an act was performed by a pagan does not make it a pagan practice. maybe we can still conclude that bit, then am out of here.

plappville: Just to mention some of your errors on what worldliness is. Am sure if you are an African woman, you will understand that relaxing your hair has no worldliness
It helps you freely comb ur hair without pain. African women has surborn hair texture is not like the Western women.
If you conderm perming without a scriptural proof, i surposed you do not use body cream and soap as well. You will not need soap to wash you body and clothes and see how your interpretaion of seeing perming as worldliness is correct. Soap, cream oil, etc are all cosmetics product.

They all are made to clean you up and to make you look healthier. If you should generalise, then i can tell you that,
The present weather in the WEST request applying of body cream, you will scrash the hell out of your dry skin if you don't use body cream.
Are we now commiting sin to God for using body cream or soap? I can see You are misqouting the world.

WORLDLINESS.

Na wa oh. You are accusing somebody of something you are also guity of. Lol! e be like you don totally abandon my question sha

TroGunn: You have been given answers to all your questions.

In your thoughts that is.

TroGunn: You've been shown numerous verses indicating we should follow good examples of Christians in the Bible.

You were also shown Bible verse showing that worshipers of God should not copy pagan practices.

What are you looking for?

You have not told me what is pagan practice and what is Christian practice.

TroGunn: In your opinion, it's ok for a Christian to use and sell cocaine, because it's not expressly condemned in the Bible, right?

hmmm, here i was thinking cocaine or its derivatives have been used by medical professionals for treatment. your problem is you have not been reading. Did i at anytime state that Christmas and it's associated activities is okay because it was not expressly condemned in the bible?

honeric01: I read your post clearly and my comment was a response to one of the questions you asked someone else, if you had taken time to read my questions, you'd have comprehended what the questions were for and the response to give.

I believe we both have communications issue then. My apologies if i read you wrong.

honeric01: I asked you some questions, but you keep dodging, i said why did they choose the same day for the pagan festival to celebrate Jesus's birth and not the actual date he was suppose to be celebrated if truly they were trying to do it for Christ?

I don't dodge questions. You can see how i have taken time to go through all the posts. Maybe it was a belief that the question was not necessary and you have shown below that the question is not really necessary. It's the same reason i needed my 'guys' to stay focus, i kept reading a lot of irrelevant stuff. To answer your question; i truly don't know why they chose December. I read here that it was meant to capture the attention of the pagans holding a pagan feast at that same (December) time.

honeric01: To your question, no it still won't be okay to celebrate it even in October before the early Christians never did, likewise Jesus while he was alive. so why celebrate someone's birth when he and his immediate disciples never did? I hope you understand what Jesus tagged the "traditions of men" while lambasting the scribes/pharisees?

Jesus and his disciples not engaging in an activity should not be the reason why we cannot perform such activity today. That's the part i don't agree with. It's easier if you can show that the act is a sin. That way we will not be having this argument. I am not a die hard fan of Christmas, am only here because my 'guys' have not been able to convince me that the act is a sin. You don't condemn an act based on personal views. I have asked a question here and i believe you have seen it, kindly prove that such act is not acceptable to God and i will be out of here. Is traditions of men (washing of hand before eating) a sin? What was Jesus issue with the so called tradition of men?

plappville: What are you kidding me?? Scripture silent on birthday matters? this shows you have not been reading my post.
Scroll back those post you ignored provided scrptures that treated birthday issues!

I was referring to Christ birthday.

Just to add; the scripture did not treat birthday issues.

TroGunn: A lot of the pagan practices associated with the celebration that got name change to Christmas has been listed and explained here already. Instead of asking to be spoonfed once again, why not list out all practices currently done under Christmas - Santa Claus, Christmas tree, christmas date, etc and research their origin.

It appears you are here to make trouble. In the spirit of the season, i think i will avoid you.

truthislight: do you know the meaning of the "word" lawlessness?

Yes, what you are doing is called lawlessness.

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have we cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you workers of lawlessness (Matthew 7:22-23).

Lol! you know how to dodge question sha

truthislight: if christ commanded for his death and not his birth why do you add/complete it for him?

Are you telling christ that he did not know what he was doing?

The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom.

You are the one telling us that Christ commanded that we should not celebrate his birth, we don't find that in the scripture. so how can you say am adding to Christ command when we don't have the full details of his command?

honeric01: The trees
the gift
the color
the "images used" during xmas celebration
the message it passes across (During xmas, more immoralities are committed than any other festival in the world)

Thank you sir. This is the kind of response i was expecting from my 'guys' but they have been avoiding me.

honeric01: The trees
the gift

I hope you don't mind me asking sir, but is the use of gifts and trees strictly a pagan practice? is it wrong for Christians to give gifts ordinarily? is it also wrong for a Christian to use this same plants made by the Almighty assuming it was not for Christmas purpose?

I will tell you why i am asking even before you respond to save time. If these practices or items can be used ordinarily by Christians, then you cannot term it a pagan practice. For example just as the Jews made burnt offerings to the Almighty with their farm animals, same way Baal worshipers made burnt offering with same farm animal. Can we then say the use of animals is a pagan practice or the fact that it was being offered to Baal that makes it pagan?

honeric01: the color
the "images used" during xmas celebration

Don't engage in Christmas celebrations that much to know much about the color and images (other than santa claus) maybe you can educate me here.

honeric01: the message it passes across (During xmas, more immoralities are committed than any other festival in the world)

Christmas is probably the biggest festive event in the world today celebrated by Christians and non-Christians. We expect that level of immorality. don't have statistics but am sure up to 90% of celebrants are not true Christians, but should that make it wrong. even peeps get drunk when they come together to celebrate the passover that Christ instructed, does that make it pagan? people go to church for various reasons, a good number of them not acceptable to God, does that make it pagan.

truthislight: idolatrouse worship is a sin QED.

And that is what birth day celebration is = idolatory.

Oga, i no understand this your 2-stage approach to answering my question o! i don't want to interpret wrongly so you don't come tomorrow and say that is not what you said. please be bold enough to say it loud and clear. i.e. celebrating Christ birthday is a sin QED. abi? please just say it and let lay this matter to rest.

plappville: He got no date to fabricate, sure you understand that post clearly. Here is it again:

Your post is still not relevant. Below is the post i was responding to...

ijawkid: .....celebrating the birth day of Jesus on dec 25th is a big time fraud.........

If celebrating the birth of Jesus on dec 25th is a fraud he must have some other date in mind abi?

TroGunn: It's not his job to provide you a date for an irrelevant celebration Christ did not command. He's simply told you the pagan history and practices surrounding the current celebration called Christmas- information you can verify for yourself. You are old enough to grasp that and make up you own mind what to do with the information.

Please learn to read my posts and the post i am responding to. That way you understand what is being discussed.

plappville: You've gotten my answer, Scripture validates scriptures, i gave you three good negetive birthday occasions from the bible ans the turnout of it.
And there was no birthday occasion for any servants of God. Do you now follow the pagan example given in the Bible or the Righteous men examples?

The choice is yours, yes i have to continue with the PAGAN EXAMPLEs, that is KING HEROD AND KING PHEROAH or I follow God's servants with no Birthday history.

I am not here to argue just for arguing sake, i presented scriptures which you and some others have kept blind eyes to.

why you dey fear to just say 'YES' If you believe you know what you are talking about, say yes and provide evidence or forever remain silent.

TroGunn: If you do not follow the good examples written in the Bible, including Christ's then you are directly disobeying. A Christian is commanded to follow good examples written in the Bible, as these verses show:

This is not about following good examples. Truthislight post gives the impression i must live just as the apostle lived. i.e. if they did not get married i should not; if they lived in huts then i should live in one. What you refer to as good examples here is also their teachings, which is what i follow.

TroGunn: And while you may not see express instruction against birthdays, the practice was in existence at the time - Israelites and subsequently Christians did not join in. It not a new practice. You should ask yourself why they didn't.

I don't know why they didn't. it appears you know. can you tell us then?

ijawkid: Christmas is pagan because everything about it was gotten from idol worshiPpers a.k.a pagans....is this answer not clear enough for you??.........

Good. we are progressing at least on this front, even though you refused to answer my main question. I will come back to this after i have seen other responses.

ijawkid: Na for my mouth you wan hear say yansh dey for back??.....zikky take time o......

Lol! but this should not stop you from answering my question na. I have difficulty progressing without an answer to my question.

eddy spice: i will pick #2 because it was instituted by them in order to allow non belivers bcome christian withoutt removing pagan traces from d festival.hence thier becoming christian was base not on God's love

Lol Nigerians! you peeps are just too lazy. so you like multiple choice question like this you want me to provide the solution to problem what i posted were just samples, i was expecting you guys to add to it. but from what i can see it was good enough for you

eddy spice: i will pick #2 because it was instituted by them in order to allow non belivers bcome christian withoutt removing pagan traces from d festival.hence thier becoming christian was base not on God's love

Good. I will come back to your response. my target for now is ijawkid & co.

honeric01: This does not really sound "smart", it would have been better if you can show us if any of his disciples celebrated his birthdays during and after he died, we know and can read where they marked his death but non for his birth, isn't that clear enough that it was never what he instructed or told anyone to do?

we did not at any time claim that the disciples celebrated Jesus birthday. and we did not at any time claimed that Jesus instructed his birthday should be celebrated. what is not smart is you not reading our posts.

Since you guys rely on the belief that Christ did not instruct that his birthday be celebrated, can you also prove to us that there is an embargo on the celebration of Christ birthday. what we know is that the scriptures is silent on the matter of birthday.

honeric01: Secondly, why December 25th the same day the pagan celebrates their own sun god and not his real birthday which some say is October?

Some say it is October, but nobody is sure. If it was celebrated in October, would that make you happy then?

eddy spice: bros according thess texts Romans 13:13 and Galatians5:21 highlights characters of those who participates such festivals so bros na sin o

You guys have a way of answering a question without actually providing an answer. we all know that orgies, intimacy e.t.c are sinful acts. my question did not have any of these in it na. go read my question again. the verses you mentioned above are not relevant.

honeric01: Most biblical scholars and preachers readily admit that they know Christ was not born on December 25th. However, they claim that this day is as good as any other to celebrate the birth of Jesus, despite the fact that it was originally a pagan celebration called Saturnalia which commemorated the birth of the sun god.
God had this to say about appropriating pagan methods of worship and trying to honor Him with them:

am interested in this. can you tell us the pagan way of worship included in the Christmas celebration today that is not acceptable to God?