₦airaland Forum

Image123: a deliberate attempt to confuse issues, God is watching too.

There is no attempt to confuse issues, instead i have shown that majority of the tithing crew don't even understand the basis for tithing One thing you all have in common; fear & greed.

Image123: @zikky and co
you're deceiving yourself by claiming that i said things that i didn't.

How can you say am claiming you said things that you didn't? How? See my question below.....

Zikkyy: Tithe is a tenth? so if my income is N20,000 and i decide to give a tenth of N10,000 (i.e. N1,000), can this giving be considered a tithe? afterall it is a tenth N10,000. You see why your comment don't make any sense. Tithe is a tenth, but not all tenth are tithe. You must properly define your tithe.

...and your response below...

Image123: @zikky and co
It is a tithe. A tithe of 10,000, duh. Only that such person is tithing of a part for a reason.

...which support my position that tithe could be a tenth of any amount, not necessarily my gross income. So what did you not say?

Image123: @zikky and co
how do you know for sure that they did not? Is it recorded that they sang, or fasted or had their bath? must it be recorded for you to believe or at least assume a Probability?

..and is it recorded that the gentiles tithed?

my argument is not based on the recorded activities of the gentiles. if we must assume probabilities, let based it on our understanding of other events, commandments/instructions, practices e.t.c at the time. we know the following;
1. Prior to conversion, the gentiles were not tithing to God
2. Acts 15 provide details of the aspect of the Jewish practice that the gentiles were required to comply with and tithe was not included
3. We know from the O.T that there was an instruction for the Levites to receive tithe and the Hebrews 7:8 you keep regurgitating refers only to the Levite. We don't find a contrary instruction for gentiles to tithe to pastors
4. In the course of establishing the tithe in the O.T, God declared the tithe of the land as sacred to him, he defined his tithe and mandated that this should be given to the Levite as their inheritance. In the NT, God did not modify this definition and beneficiary.
5. We know Paul did not collect tithe because a. there was no contrary instruction that tithe can be received by non-Levi priests; b. Paul refused to burden the converts by working to earn his living. If tithe was the key to wealth, Paul would not deny the gentile Christians their 'breakthrough', instead Paul went from one Church to another collecting from those that are better off to support those in need. We know very well that most of the bible verse used to support prosperity gospel were Paul' s statements, yet Paul did not practice it.

So image123, on what basis do you want me to assume that the gentiles tithed?

Image123: Semantics, income is harvest. You need a good dictionary and perhaps a thesaurus.

This one no need for argument. all you need to do is provide that good dictionary that defines harvest as income. Provide a link here for us to study.

Image123: @zikkyy and co
The goal and purpose and summary of the law is love, and love still needs to be adhered to. It is the summary and goal of the law.
1Jo 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

...and i have been asking one question: was this goal achieved by adherence to the law? you people know how to dodge questions sha

Image123: they afre still being maintained today with tithes and offering. Nobody stops you from bringing food, meat, cerals or animals to your pastor. It's awkward in many quarters today though because exchange rates have changed. People pay rent, transport, education, bills with primarily MONEY now. But you're still free, if that's what makes you comfortable.

You still don't get it. according to you image123, when Paul said that just as priests were maintained with tithe & offerings 'even so' pastors should be maintained with tithes and offerings today. Your position is that pastors should be maintained exactly as priests were being maintained. All i did was show that priest were 'chopping' the meat sacrificed on the altar. If you say pastors should be maintained in the same manner feed of tithe and burnt offerings, i agree.

Brother/sister bidam, you are not consistent o! I am having difficulty reconciling the posts below, kindly assist abeg.

Post 1.

Bidam: ..Now melchizedek was a [size=14pt]type[/size] of Christ as priest.[/b]He was witout father and mother, without descendant having neither begining of days nor end of life..

Post 2.

Bidam: Summary:[b]melchizedek[size=14pt]=[/size]Christ(immortal and Spiritual).

Bidam: let me explain in doses so u guys won't apply those tricks on me again.

Lol! don't mind Goshen jare. If anybody attempt to trick you again, report to me, i will deal with him just imagine

Bidam: Levi, the fourth generation of abraham's family was connected through the tithe. This has great significance to the order of the church.(heb7:9).

connected to what? Was Levi connected to NEPA or MTN abi na Glo? that has always been the question.

Bidam: I have been shouting that out loud in my post but u choose to ignore it...

The only thing if you have been shouting is that Levi was connected through tithe. Our question have always been:
1. what is Levi connected to?
2. We want to know the act of tithing enable/activate this connection

Bidam: levi were the ones ordained to pay tithes under d law..Abraham tithed to melchizedek before the law came..jesus was a type of Melchizedek in dis dispensation of grace..we are encouraged by scriptures to give to Jesus..i believe u can see God's pattern here..when Jesus was on earth he was not required to recieve the tithes cos He was under the Law..now that He is sitted at the righthandside of The father..our sacrifices like prayers,offering,worship,tithing belongs to Him..it is an incense, a sweet smelling savour pleasing and acceptable to Him..we might be gentiles in d natural but we are spiritual jews in Christ(rom2:28-29).(rom11:17;19).

you are yet to tell us who and what Levi was connected to i can't find that info in your post.

How do i reconcile these two first Bidam says it was Jesus receiving tithe in Hebrews 7:8 (see below).....

Bidam: Paul even settled d matter in verse 8..of heb 7...He states plainly that Christ receiveth them(the tithes) of whom it is witnessed that He liveth"..who are the witnesses that Christ is Alive? Christians ofcos..we are His witness..Christians give tithes to Jesus. Paul could not make it any plainer.

....then Apostle Image123 says it was some men (see below)

Image123: (BBE) Now at the present time, men over whom death has power take the tenth; but then it was taken by one of whom it is witnessed that he is living. [/color]
If this is not evidence, there is nothing called evidence. hebrews PLAINLY states that some people were receiving tithes. hebrews was written AFTER the law.

Now who is right who is wrong? the problem is that you guys believe you are saying the same thing.

Bidam: u got dis part right..we re related in the things of God...we re baptised of d same Spirit.

This i agree with. You guys are baptised with the same spirit; the spirit of confusion even image agrees.

Image123: sharrap bully, find your mate.

How dare you call zikkyy (the perfect gentleman) a bully

Image123: Talk to me ehnnn.

You see your self i told you already that you lost touch with reality i will talk to you only when you are in your lucid interval

Bidam: Paul even settled d matter in verse 8..of heb 7...He states plainly that Christ receiveth them(the tithes) of whom it is witnessed that He liveth"..who are the witnesses that Christ is Alive? Christians ofcos..we are His witness..Christians give tithes to Jesus. Paul could not make it any plainer.

Are you related to image123

Bidam: the scripture is so clear i wonder why u are asking me..levi were in d loins of abraham who tithed to melchizedek..Now melchizedek was a type of Christ as priest.He was witout father and mother, without descendant having neither begining of days nor end of life..now remember this in heb 13:8, Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and forever..therefore do you not see that it is a Christian's duty to give(not pay) tithes under the new convenant? Also remember that Abram beforehis name was changed to Abraham was not a jew..the jewish nation did not begin until the twelve partriachs came forth from jacob.(gen28:10-22)..tithing predates the law, it might intrest u to know that cain and abel were taught to practice tithing by thier parents Adam and eve(prov1:.God has respect to abel's offering cos it was d best..d analogy am trying to draw here is dat its lyk a genetic code dat was passed down to abraham and even Jacob who encountered God in bethel.dats the connection am talking about.

I still don't understand the connection o! Is it that Levi became connected to Melchi when Abraham tithed to Malachi? Or are you saying because Jesus is the same yesterday, today & forever therefore he is Melchi &Levi became connected? or maybe the act of tithing is in Adams genetic code and therefore pass from generation to generation. Please clarify.

Bidam: Fact 1: tithing is scriptural- ordered and approved of God in the old and new testaments..let me explain in doses so u guys won't apply those tricks on me again.

Please explain o jare, we are reading you know we love explanations.

Bidam: funny you are the guy being controlled by deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons..let me repeat MY SELF TITHING IS A BIBLICAL INJUCTION..IF U RE NOT A TITHER YOU HAVE DISOBEYED GOD'S COMMAND AND INJUCTIONS.

You only succeeded in telling us you tithe in accordance with the mosaic law. @Joagbaje was very wrong in telling is tithers don't tithe according to the law. Joagbaje, I believe you are reading, so you understand why pur discussions here focus on the law.

@bidam, please let me know when you are having the next burnt offering. Am yet to witness one.

Bidam: U guys are all acting stupid and senile... I quoted a scripture...And as i may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham(heb7:9).. U took the part dat suit ur purpose and blew my explanations out of context..now dis was wat i said and pls we are here to discuss not to start throwing hypocritical tantrums at one another...i said levi d fourth generation of Abraham's family was connected thru the tithe. Go back and read my post and stop d lies and deceit.

Just tell us who &/or what Levi was connected to (was the connection to NEPA or to MTN?). I would also like to know how the act of tithing enable/activate the connection process. It is a simple issue as you can see

Goshen360: I laugh in tongues....on the bolded. The guy is just learning the tricks of the trade! I raised all this issue of Levi paid tithe in Abraham but he doesn't understand still. Abraham was BEFORE Levi. How can some tell us that Levi connected to Abraham. It was Abraham who carried Levi in his lions just as everyone was in Adam when he sinned. Everyone who is in Christ is also justified because of what Christ did. If what Christ did nullified what Adam did, how can someone tell us what Adam did is still effective and enforced on us......confusion in the modern church!

The man or girl is one of those brainwashed tithers. Am sure he/she does not know why he/she is a Christian.

Bidam: i don't think i will waste my time here discussing spiritual principles here..since u re blind to spiritual truths..wait till Christ returns then we shall know who is speaking truth and who is telling lies...but one thing am sure of that the Holy Spirit has taught me is that tithing is a spiritual principles..The whole scriptures shouts it..Jesus acknowledges it..Paul encourages it..God validates it.

You will not waste your time discussing because you don't have anything to say. I was expecting this. It very obvious you dont understand what you are talking about. You think its enough to come here posting beautiful nonsense abi?

You come here telling us that Levi was connected to his own great grand father based on the tithe Abram paid to melchi. Then you also stated that Abraham was connected to Adam by that act. All I did was to ask for clarification, simple. If I tell you image123 tithing activities connected him to some aliens from another planet, am sure it makes sense to you.

truthislight: lol.
Maybe i should rather be calling him:

@chris Oyakhelomi - Jagbaje

Na you know, call him anything you like.

Joagbaje: It's a matter of faith. A pastor who recieved furniture as a birthday suprise from members once told me he paid tithe of the value of that furniture. That was way back 1994 . I felt he took the tithing thing too far. Trying to be too " holy" but later I got to see the principle behind his action. Personal faith and conviction is involved

Thank you sir. This supports my position that the idea of rendering a tenth should be determined by the individual. There's no issue if it was based on personal faith and conviction.

What I don't agree with is the definition of tithe as 10% of income (what constitute income is at the discretion of the pastor). Reading the bible you will find there is no fixed definition for tithe, it is as determined by customary behavior (Abraham); as determined personally by the giver (Jacob) or as required by God (mosaic).

It becomes an issue when modern day pastors 'trick' the congregation into parting with a tenth of their income by reference to the mosaic law. And we know Christians are not required to adhere to this law. If anybody must tithe according to the mosaic law, he/she must adhere 100%. What we fight here is people attempting to justify the act by claiming it is commanded by God in accordance with the mosaic law.

If you are sincere you should be advising image123.

@Joagbaje,

I hope you don't mind my asking this question. I would realty appreciate your response.

What was the purpose of the various burnt offerings under mosaic law?

Bidam: To establish biblical order within the church. Do you have a father?

I don't understand. Abraham's link to Adam was to establish biblical order? There was no biblical order within the church prior to Abraham's tithe? I also need to understand how Abraham's one time tithe became the link that connected Levi to .............(fill in the space) and at the same time created order within the church.

I don't understand your question.

Bidam: [color=#000000][/color][color=#990000][/color]And as I may say so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes payed tithes in Abraham.(heb7:9). Pls understand that tithe has the power to connect us in order through Abraham. Levi, the fourth generation of Abraham's family, was connected through the tithe. This has great significance to the order of the church. This was a charge that predated the law and was instituted by Abraham in paying tithe to Melchizedek, which linked him all the way back to Adam. In other words, it connected him in the generations.

Levi was connected through tithe to what? Your message is not complete. You said Abraham tithe provided the link to Adam, what is the nature of the link and for what purpose?

Image123: @zikky,
It is a tithe. A tithe of 10,000, duh. Only that such person is tithing of a part for a reason

If tithing a portion of my income is a valid tithe, then my tithe could be anything. My tithe could be a tenth of my transport cost to church every Sunday and according to image123 it's a valid tithe. You see then your definition of tithe as tenth of income is rubbish.

Image123: @zikky,
So what goes with the law apart from tithes? How will the law go, and leave its weighty matters? Was there a commandment to tithe before the law? Did people tithe before the law?

We don't rely on the weighty matters contained in the law. There wad no commandment to tithe before and after the law. Meaning if you tithe today, you are only relying on the pastoral commandment to tithe.

Image123: Your assumptions and out of nowhere deductions are irrelevant. People tithed without the requirement of the law and before the law. Can't you understand that?

There is nothing irrelevant in that post. Peeps are learning from it. Even Joagbaje is learning. Have you been reading his posts?

Image123: Heb 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
Where did Gosh forget his tenses when reading this verse? It is plainly seen that at the time of writing Heb 7v8, men were receiving tithes. Gosh is saying nobody was, that's a lie. You're covering up for him instead of explaining to him. People received tithes after the law, AND VERY IMPORTANTLY, NO APOSTLE CONDEMNED THE PRACTICE. If that's too hard for you all to swallow, that's too bad.

The problem with you is that you don't read. I don't have to cover for him. Why don't you go back and read Goshen's post. His focus was the Hebrew verse. We don't have evidence of people receiving tithe after the law, it is not stated anywhere in the bible. I agreed it's possible people received tithe after the on the fact the temple was active till about 70 AD. We don't know if any body received tithe, we can only assume.

..and please I advice that you do away with this talk that nobody condemned the act. It possible the Jews continued their burnt offering till 70 AD and Apostle condemned the act. What's important is that Christians did not tithe. You should be asking yourself the reason the gentiles did not tithe.

Joagbaje: The law reveal God principles. We learn from it

Good talk. the law reveal God principles and you learn from it. Can you pass this message to your brother Image123 to learn from?

newmi: Tithing really a form of consencration in like manner the First Fruit is.
"For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches" Romans 11:16

Am sure if you read the post above one more time, it's likely you will be slapping yourself for the senseless post.

Joagbaje: Even though The law it's self it's not a problem. Apostles often quoted from the law. Why should the quuote obsolete material.

I don't think anybody is saying the law is bad. Quoting from the law is not an issue. It becomes an issue when you tell Christians to adhere to the commands contain in the law.

Joagbaje: But Gods principles revealed in the law are eternal.

What are the principles contained in the law? The principles are not the act itself but what the act represent. "thou shall not kill" the principle is not the act of murder or abstaining from the act. When God says give my tithe to the levite, the principle is not the act of tithing itself but what God want to achieve with such act.

Goshen360: @ Brother Zikky,

Good job. Keep the good work and God bless you. Your patient is commended. I'm already weary of argument with our tithe brothers even at the very face of clear scriptures that ended tithe. God bless you.

Thank you my brother. With peeps like Jagbaje & image123 bent on spreading their fraud inspired version of the gospel, you need to be patient o!

Bidam: @image:
Pastors demand tithe, but it is often more out of a desire for, or a perceived right to, income than a desire for the welfare of the saints. In their appeals for tithe, some use manipulations and fear to motivate the people to part with their money. Saints grudgingly or blindly give without any more understanding than that the bible says to do it, or that in giving they can become materially prosperous. Instead of linking the people of God, the misapplication of this teaching has in many cases divided the people, each seeking their own good and not that of the Body.

It's good to see you coming to your senses.

Image123: @zikkyy

Waoooh, this is a new one! So you think the law of God is the law of sin and death? The law is good, the law is holy, the law is righteous, and we should be mindful of it. Paul delighted after the law and he was saying this to gentiles. You can't quote this scripture against/to oppose that background. i kept telling you guys on the other thread months ago that there are different laws and you should be careful to distinguish what law has been done away with according to Hebrews. Some of your folks were yapping about the law of tithes until i drummed it into their soul that there is nothing like the law of tithe in the Bible. See Romans again in its context.

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Paul delighted in the law of God, but there was ANOTHER LAW in him. It's not talking of the OT but a law inside him, a law of sin which is in him. that is the law that all have sinned. The law that all are sinners by default and will rather sin. there is a law of gravity that applies to everybody. there is a law of sin that applies to every human until he receives Christ. It is this law Paul is talking of.

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Again he emphasises in the bolded that the problem is in the body, in his members. He's not looking for deliverance from God's law, and he finds deliverance in Jesus Christ.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
He is being made free from the law of sin and death which were in his body, in his members, not from the law of God.

The law of God in this case is not referring to the Mosaic law. You forgot to add the part that says "For what the law could not do....". Before you begin to argue the verse i quoted you must first understand the purpose for which it was quoted. You image123 are still walking after the flesh, you rely on the mosaic law to check your excesses. That's what am pointing at; you still rely on the law to perfect you. some peeps already walk after the spirit, them don leave you behind.

Image123: @zikkyy
Income is profits, proceeds, returns, harvest, revenue, earnings, wages, pay, salary. tithe is a 10% of what you make.

Where is this definition from? It's likely to be from your pastor or your personal definition. I know there is nothing like this in the bible. It is the definition of man.

Image123: @zikkyy
There is no dictionary meaning of tithe or of salvation in the Bible. Even the 'illiterate' Israelites were taken for granted to know the meaning of tithes. it is simply 10% of income. The commands just mentioned it to them. The tithe of e.g
Lev 27:31 And if a man will at all redeem aught of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.
Lev 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD's: it is holy unto the LORD.
Num 18:24 But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as a heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.
These are the first times the tithes was recorded to Israel and there is no definition as you suggest. It was for granted that everyone knew tithe as a tenth of the income.

You are totally wrong.The Israelite did not assume that tithe was a tenth of income; Under the Mosaic law, tithe was not defined as a tenth of income. the Israelite knew tithe was tenth of their harvest (crops), and measure tithe of the farm animal every tenth animal. You think the shepherd with flock doubling from 4 to 8 animals in a year did not earn income? yet he cannot tithe because only the tenth animal will be tithed and he has just 8. Or you think the man that went fishing did not earn income? but he is not tithing his fish. What about the man that hunt bushmeat? is bushmeat not income? but he is not required to tithe his bushmeat.

Before Moses i.e. in Abraham's time tithe was a tenth of war spoils, Jacob personally defined his tithe. the tithe of tenth of war spoils was no longer required after Moses issued the law. The Israelite had war spoils but did not give a tenth of it to the priest. So who defined tithe as a tenth of salary tenth of profit? How do you arrive at profit? you need to remove expenses from your gross or total revenue abi? The Israelite tithed a tenth of harvest without first removing the cost of planting, weeding and harvesting.

Your tithe today is as defined by man and cannot be justified by reference to the tithe practice under the law.