₦airaland Forum

Image123: @Opening Post2 contd.....
There's this scripture that says give to God what is God's. you don't give what is God's to man or to an animal.

This is one statement pastors use to deceive those that cannot think for themselves. What is giving to God? are you going to take a private jet to heaven and hand over what belongs to God to God? God fined what belong to him and how it should given to him. In the case of tithe God defined tithe of land (in agric produce) as his, and he says you should give it to him by handing it over to the Levite as their inheritance.

Image123: You can't give God's tithe to the poor, or to a friend in need. God's tithe is for God.

Deuteronomy 14 says the poor and needy should benefit from tithe. So what is the source of the message you are giving us here?

Image123: Abraham didn't give his tithes to the King of Sodom, or to Lot or to any of the captives he could have changed their lives or fortunes with. He didn't even give it to the men who he wanted to have their portion.

So who did Abraham give his tithe to? God? Is it written anywhere in the bible that God claimed the tenth of war spoils as his own? and it should be given to Melchizedek?

Image123: Abraham gave his tithes to a great man, king of righteousness, priest of the most high God. And what did he give, it was the tenth of the spoils. Again, note that Abraham did not take Lot's property or the King of Sodom's goods. So, what did he take and tithe from? Of the spoils.

spoils, plural noun
1. property seized by victor: valuables or property seized by the victor in a conflict
2. something gained through effort: something valuable or desirable gained through effort, opportunism, or other means

Microsoft® Encarta® 2009. © 1993-2008 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
These were the goods of the about four kings defeated and their armies, or maybe kingdoms.

Genesis 14:11-16(KJV)
And they took all the goods of Sodom and Gomorrah, and all their victuals, and went their way. And they took Lot, Abram's brother's son, who dwelt in Sodom, and his goods, and departed. And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew; for he dwelt in the plain of Mamre the Amorite, brother of Eshcol, and brother of Aner: and these were confederate with Abram. And when Abram heard that his brother was taken captive, he armed his trained servants, born in his own house, three hundred and eighteen, and pursued them unto Dan. And he divided himself against them, he and his servants, by night, and smote them, and pursued them unto Hobah, which is on the left hand of Damascus. And he brought back all the goods, and also brought again his brother Lot, and his goods, and the women also, and the people.

Consider the bolded (in blue), you don't think there is a relationship there? it is not stated that he brought with him the goods of the kings he fought against. You really need to re-assess your sermon here.

Image123: Melchizedek, being a priest, had the pre-requisite/requirements/qualifications to receive the tithes and offerings of God. So also, Christ our High priest is qualified as a priest and a King. He is also of the order of Melchizedek. Nothing stops or disqualifies Christ from receiving tithes if truly Melchizedek was made like unto the Son of God.

You people continue to insult the priesthood of Christ so that you can continue to justify your tithing scheme. The message i get here is if Melchizedek did it, Christ can do it and if Melchizedek did not do it Christ cannot.

Image123: It was to Melchizedek that Abraham gave a tenth of ALL. ALL of course doesn't refer to the wives of people or to other people's property. it is wrong to give tithes of other people's property. Other people's property is theirs. Abraham didn't take Lot's goods and give tithes, neithe did he take the king of Sodom's goods according to the passage.

..and who told you 'ALL' was not referring to the wives of people and to other people's property? Where is it written that these people/items were excluded from 'ALL'? You are attempting to re-write the scriptures.

Image123: Yet, it is recorded that he gave tithes of all. tithe is simply a tenth part i.e 10% as seen from Hebrews 7v2. A tenth is 1/10 of a whole.

"Tithe is simply a tenth part"; a tenth part of what? you need to complete that statement otherwise every tenth part becomes a tithe. A tenth part of income from prostitution or tenth part of income from robbery then becomes a tithe.

"A tenth is 1/10 of whole"; A whole what? again you deliberately refused to complete the statement so as not to commit yourself. N10 is a whole just N10,000 is a whole, so if i tithe N1 i have tithed and if i tithe N1,000 i have tithed irrespective of how much i earn.

Now you understand why God defined his tithe in Lev. 27 to avoid this confusion in definition of tithe. Otherwise the Israelite would have been tithing any tenth.

Image123: 'Yield' is the same thing as 'income' or 'harvest'. i brought up the three so you can have a cumulative picture. Get a thesaurus or a good dictionar instead of disturbing me with frivolous semantics.

I did not ask for what yield is. You said harvest is the same thing as income, all you needed to do was show us where harvest was defined as income. You did not find any, instead you decided to define yield. according to you Harvest=Yield=Income

If i adopt your 'deceitful approach', i can also say Homose.xual is the same thing as Cheerful

Homose.xual:
homosexual (adj.)
1.sexually attracted to members of your own sex
synonyms:
gay, lesbian

Cheerful:
having life or vigor or spirit
synonyms:
alive, animated, blissful, blithe, bright, buoyant, cheery, chuffed, cock-a-hoop, encouraging, gay, genial, glad...

Since there is no obviously no relationship between Homose.xual and Cheerful, i look for what they have in common and define that one abi? so....

Gay:
characterized by liveliness and lightheartedness
synonyms:
brave, braw, bright, brilliant, buoyant, cheerful, cheery, chuffed, cock-a-hoop, convivial, festal, festive, frivolous, frolicsome, genial, glad, gleeful, good-humored, good-humoured, happy, homophile, homose.xual,

source: sensagent dictionary

So as you can see, Homose.xual=Gay=Cheerful Smart abi?

Image123: Did the Bible only mention tithe in Lev. 27? When would you start to read cumulatively instead of segregationally?

Lev. 27 is the basis/foundation for the Israelite tithing practice. Without Lev 27, The Israelite would not have tithed.

Image123: This is no point. There is possibility of backsliding also in the new covenant/testament.

Oh! you do agree there is a new covenant abi? So what's this talk about Christians adhering to the law?

Image123: This is no point. There is possibility of backsliding also in the new covenant/testament. There are several warnings by the apostles, refering us to past OT backskslidings telling us to beware. That one does something for God out of love doesn't rule out possibilities of backsliding.

Jude 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

My post was not to compare backsliding in OT and for those being led by the spirit. You told us that the goal of the law is love and this is achieve by adherence to the law. My illustration was to show that Jews could not love by adherence to the law, simple.

truthislight: Good question.

They come in shade and sizes.

Lol!

I am having difficulty reconciling Joagbaje's reponse to Debosky's post.

debosky: Matthew 23:23 was referring to Pharisees (Jews) tithing agricultural produce to the Levitical Priesthood. That instruction is not applicable to Christians as we are neither subject to the law neither is there a Levitical Priesthood in existence to collect agricultural produce.

Joagbaje: Tithing existed before Levitical priesthood . Besides its not only agricultural produce that are given as tithes . Tithe was paid in cash and kind.

Joagbaje, you just want to show activity here. Debosky was referring to Jesus comment in Mathew 23:23 and the period/people to which it is applicable wetin concern tithe before the Levitical priesthood for this matter?

Bidam: Do i sense a tweak of jealous hatred against pastors here?

You are not sensing anything jor i think your sense organs are malfunctioning.

Bidam: Do i sense a tweak of jealous hatred against pastors here? Even if we dash our pastors salary e dey pain u neh? SMH! Never wanted to comment anyway but the bitter bile coming out of ur mouth just becos we minister carnal needs to our pastors who feed us spiritual needs is nauseating to say the least...

Na wa for you. You people don't know how to read oh! maybe that's the reason you are having difficulty understanding tithing. I just don't understand why you think i hate pastors. Bidam i don't hate pastors and i am not jealous (nothing like bitter bile). I have pastor friends and sometimes contributes to their ministry even though i am not a member of their church! I am beginning to think you are the one after me here o!

Besides i wasn't even thinking pastor when i made that post, i was thinking of my friend, image123.

Bidam: ...woe is me if i minister not to my pastor..

You don dey curse yourself because of money matter. Wetin concern me? it's your money

Bidam: oya come make anoda comment here..mr.lawgiver and judge.

I don talk do your worst na

Image123: No Scripture has been truly presented that shows that tithing is ended or abolished.

I think you guys are having communication issues. The rendering of a tenth can never really end, why? because every kobo, dollar or pounds you give is a tenth of something irrespective of the name we call it.

My understanding of what ended is God's command for the Israelite to tithe. Ended in the sense that God has moved on; he no longer recognize the Levitical priesthood. Since there was never a command for gentiles to tithe, we cannot even begin to say God's command for Christians to tithe has ended. Everybody is free to give a tenth of his income or tenth of anything to his/her church, but it is not God's command. The problem we have today is that pastors in their bid to increase church revenue deceive the sheeple by linking the modern day request for tithe to the mosaic law.

Tithing should not be preached as God's command and individuals be given the freedom to decide if they want to give a tenth of their income to the church. So image123, you can decide to take your 10% to the church, it is your choice. It is not different from any other form of giving, the only difference being your decision to call it a tithe. It also not different from that of the man that decides to give 5% or 15% or 60%.

Bidam: paul encourages believrs to give..and i am starting my own wit 10% even if i call am tithe e no bad.

If this was you basis for tithing, we won't be having this argument.

truthislight: You are a afraud that wants to gain riches through the gospel.

This by exploiting others.

Your love for God can not take your making sacrifices but you must get back riches other wise no. And this through tith.

The apostles died for christ dont forget.

Greed.
I hope that you live forever with your exploit.

Don't mind the man. his mates are making it big time digging up graves in benin republic (for money making rituals ), he is here thinking he can get rich by donating his salary to his pastor

Bidam: Oga zikky...u re so obsessed about this tithing issue that u follow all the threads on thithing in nairaland..

Before nko?

Bidam: ..u ave been on it since 2009..wow how many years now?

You don't know anything. I have been on the tithe crusade even before i joined NL

Bidam: ..u dnt even ave a basis attcking me on this tgread..

I do. anytime you misquote, mis-interpret the bible you give me a basis

Bidam: ..remember wat u said in sept 2009God help u if u dnt..let me remind u..u said u re NOT AGAINST TITHERS..

...and i repeated the same thing on this thread. I even told you i have 'tithers' at home tithing recklessly i don't have intention of discouraging anybody, if you want to stop tithing it will have to be your personal decision. I am not after you Bidam, i am after scripture twisting money loving tithe preachers. You fall into that category the minute you regurgitate their teachings here. what i do here is ensure readers get a balanced view of the concept of tithing (from both sides of the divide) so they are able to make more informed decisions. Even if you don't admit it here, you know we present by far the better argument if only you were not so hooked on tithing, am sure you would have told Image123 to go take a swim in the atlatic ocean

Bidam: ..so u better find a profitable thing to do with ur time and stop following my comments...

All you need to do is to stop posting

Bidam: u can't change scriptures...even if u apply logic lyk zikky...

You don't know that the ability to effectively apply logic is a gift from God? How do you read your bible? Do i have to be in a trance before i can read the bible? You think pastors are not applying logic when the skip other tithe related verses in the bible and focus on Malachi 3:10 or Mathew 23:23?

Bidam: ..IT IS A CHRISTIAN DUTY TO GIVE(NOT PAY) TITHES UNDER THE NEW CONVENANT...TITHING IS AN ACT OF WORSHIP..TITHING IS ABOUT RELATIONSHIP NOT ORGANISATION...TITHING CAUSES THE TITHE GIVER TO GIVE FREELY AND SPONTANEOUSLY RATHER THAN WAITING UNTIL AN APPEAL IS MADE..TITHING CREATES A COMMANDING POSITION OF STEWARDSHIP IN THE LIVES OF CHRISTIANS..TITHING INVOKES GOD'S BLESSING UPON THE TITHE GIVER..TITHING TEACHES US TO RECOGNISE AND ACKNOWLEDGE GOD'S OWNERSHIP OF OUR LIVES..TITHING IS GIVING IN A SYSTEMATIC MANNER RATHER THAN AN EMOTIONAL OR SPASMODIC GIVING AS U GUYS DO IN UR LOCAL ASSEMBLY...

These are all figment of your imagination. there are no scriptural basis for the statement above. You got this info in your dream, right? What you have done is to give us your personal (or a third party) view of tithe. This is how you interpret the bible? by telling us what you think without supporting scriptures?

Goshen360: (No mind my yeye o, sometimes I can be a naughty boy you know) God bless you bro. Love you bro!

I think Bidam is a she. Talks & react like one.

Bidam: @Ranchowner..God bless u jare! Atleast i got one or two sound teachings from ur post..dats how a christain attitude should be..not castigating and antagonisin sumone even going as far as using abusive words on my pastor in order to win an argument, just becos i dont hold ur views concerning tithing..dats very unchristian attitude i tell you.

I was going to apologize, but you sound like a pastor worshipper, so no need.

To be honest, if your post/views reflects the opinion of your pastor, I can say your pastor is either ignorant or he is a fraudster.

Enigma: You mean to say he was gragravating the matter?

Lol! Yes ooh!

Bidam: ..and as for zikky he is sounding logical in order to win an argument..not teachin in love..and dat to me is unchristian attitude cos he has recieved d praise of men.

What do you mean am sounding logical? How do you want me to interpret the things I read? Do you reason with your head or with your stomach? If you know me Bidam, you will know I don't really come out here to win anything. Am usually here to state my point of view on any issue that has to do with interpretation of the bible and have fun at the same time. I don't care about your personal tithing practice, I live in a house with very close family members tithing. I don't do anything to discourage them just as long as nobody misinterpret the scriptures to justify their practice. I do my part to ensure our giving is done out love, not greed, fear or desperation. That's all I care about. I see 'tithing' as an act not different from any other form of giving and I believe it should be based on personal conviction. Every giving is a % of something irrespective of the name given to it.

I am sorry if you feel am not teaching in love. This is not a class and I do believe you are un-teachable. Most tithers are, so why waste my time.

Image123: thank you.

This is all you have to say? After all your 'gra-gra' when you were shouting "count me in Gosh, count me in" I was thinking Goshen was in serious trouble. You dey fall my hand

Bidam: Yes i said so backing it with scriptural quotations..If God know show u something zikky no argue blindly..calling my pastor(Jesus) crooked does show d side u belong..u be d judge not me.

Is your pastor crooked? You decide. I can't confirm if he is, the reason I said 'probably crooked'. Don't see why you are bothered.

Bidam: Mayb melchizedek went by whirlwind to heaven with the tithes..

Lol!

Bidam: Remember i asked u WHO IS YOUR FATHER? answer my queshion and stop being self righteous and hypocritical.

It depends. Don't really understand your question. Are you referring to my biological parents?

Bidam: Principle is a rule or belief governing one's personal behavior.e.g i tithe as a principle.

So your tithe is therefore a personal principle and NOT a spiritual principle.

Bidam: i wonder why u guys are not seeing it the way ayam seeing it..

Maybe it's because we don't understand what you claimed to be seeing ooh. You are seeing what your pastor wants you to see it's a mirage, it is not real

Bidam: we are talkin about spiritual issues which are beyond human reasoning and comprehension here...

...and yet you (Bidam) was able to comprehend but Goshen cannot abi you are not human?

Bidam: i have replied goshen read my post...and pls STOP BEING LOGICAL ABOUT SPIRITUAL ISSUES..

You mean you don't believe i am functioning under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit? Just because i don't agree with you? if it your (probably crooked) pastor talking you will say he is filled with the spirit because he tells you what your itching ears want to hear. You see yourself.

Bidam: it is not stated in d OT wat melchi did with d 10%..since He is a priest of the Most High God i believe He gave it to God..

Lol! You mean he took the war loot to heaven and gave it to God? Don't forget you said Melchi=Jesus If Melchi=Jesus he must have gone back to heaven after collecting the tithe. So what did he use to transport the loot?

Image123: You hypocrite, do your own part of faithfully bringing the animals. The pastors you can leave to do what's best with it, whether na burnt, or grilled, or fried they go take am do. I know you're not as thick-headed as the quote.

You are avoiding the issue. It is not about me bringing my meat. It is about your interpretation of the bible verse. If you say pastors must eat as it was done in the O.T, it means Pastors must engage in sacrificing meat on the altar (offering burnt offering to the Lord). The offerings as commanded by the law must be burnt, that way it will be exactly as practiced in the O.T. pastor handling it any other way implies a deviation from the commandment, a modification of the commandment, and we know you are against any attempt at modifying Christ commandment.

Sorry i missed this.

Image123: BTW, the goal of the law, which is love, is achieved by anyone who adheres to it. Love has not passed away.1Corinth 13.

You claimed the goal of the 'mosaic' law is love and i asked if the goal was achieved. The post above is not telling us that the goal was achieved, instead you are saying love is achieved when you adhere to the law! Mr. Image123 adhering to something you don't believe in does not result in love. To think you even referred me to 1 Corinthians 13! This is the first three verse of that chapter...

1 Corinthians 13:1-3 (KJV)
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.


Is the above not telling you that love/charity is independent of your works/actions? Clearly the command to give a tenth of the harvest the Levite did not bring love.

Let me also illustrate with some extract from the book of Nehemiah. Consider the book of Nehemiah where the people vowed to comply with the law....

Nehemiah 10:29 (KJV)
They clave to their brethren, their nobles, and entered into a curse, and into an oath, to walk in God's law, whi[/i]ch was given by Moses the servant of God, and to observe and do all the commandments of the Lord our Lord, and his judgments and his statutes;

They actually complied by remitting the tithe to the appropriate quarters.....

[i]Nehemiah 12:47 (KJV)
And all Israel in the days of Zerubbabel, and in the days of Nehemiah, gave the portions of the singers and the porters, every day his portion: and they sanctified holy things unto the Levites; and the Levites sanctified them unto the children of Aaron.

with plenty of rejoicing ...

Nehemiah 12:43-44 (KJV)
Also that day they offered great sacrifices, and rejoiced: for God had made them rejoice with great joy: the wives also and the children rejoiced: so that the joy of Jerusalem was heard even afar off. And at that time were some appointed over the chambers for the treasures, for the offerings, for the firstfruits, and for the tithes, to gather into them out of the fields of the cities the portions of the law for the priests and Levites: for Judah rejoiced for the priests and for the Levites that waited.

You already know what followed. It didn't take long for them to go back to their old ways. All that was required was for Nehemiah to leave town for a while .......

Nehemiah 13:6-12 (KJV)
But in all this time was not I at Jerusalem: for in the two and thirtieth year of Artaxerxes king of Babylon came I unto the king, and after certain days obtained I leave of the king: And I came to Jerusalem, and understood of the evil that Eliashib did for Tobiah, in preparing him a chamber in the courts of the house of God........

.....And I perceived that the portions of the Levites had not been given them: for the Levites and the singers, that did the work, were fled every one to his field. Then contended I with the rulers, and said, Why is the house of God forsaken? And I gathered them together, and set them in their place. Then brought all Judah the tithe of the corn and the new wine and the oil unto the treasuries.

Mr Image123, you cannot love because the law says you should love, it is not possible.

Goshen360: Tell how Melchizedek = Jesus with the above verse

If Melchi = Jesus, i'll like Bidam to tell us what Melchi did with the spoils of war (his 10%). was it taken to heaven?.. am sure he did not give it back to Abraham

Bidam: like image said u guys dnt know d difference btw laws and ordinances..there are different laws in scriptures and Tithing is alwaz interchanged as Givings in the new testament..tithing is a principle not a Law.

Why don't you pick a dictionary and look up the meaning of principle.

debosky: Ok, maybe you are confused

Na today? i want to believe his aim here is to spread the confusion Bidam is just as confused.

Image123: @zikky
Neither were they fasting or praying to God.

But they were fasting and praying to their own god. Were they tithing to their god? NO. What that tells you is that they were used to fasting and praying what changed was the God/god they prayed to.

Image123: @zikky
Wrong, Acts 15 provides details of the aspect of the law of Moses they were required to comply with. Fortunately for us, the laws of God are not limited to the law of Moses. Tithing was BEFORE Moses' grandfather!

This is not smart. even if tithing was before Adam, the tithe at the time was tithe as required by the mosaic law. Nobody gave a tenth of war spoils after the law was issued. The only tithe that God claimed as sacred is the tithe practiced under the law. Every other rendering of a tenth is at the individuals discretion, probably a personal vow to God (like Jacob did). We know the laws of God are not limited to the mosaic law, but the laws of God (outside the mosaic law) does not contain the compulsory payment of a tenth to a pastor. By giving a tenth of harvest to the Levites you are obeying the mosaic law, and by paying a tenth of your income to your church/pastor you are obeying your pastor.

Image123: @zikky
The bolded is right and is what i've been saying for about 12pages, except you mistakenly wrote this.

I don't know what you are talking about.

Image123: @zikky
You make it sound so cool, establishing, declared, defined, mandated, bla bla. All na grammar. Every Bible student knows when God was specific and detailed in the law. Compare the issues of making the tabernacle, or of cleansing, or of sacrifices, with what you're saying of tithes. There is no such detail and definition given. It simply states that the tithe is holy to God.

Lev 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD's: it is holy unto the LORD.

Lev 27:32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.

Are you saying the Lev. 27 you quoted above simply states that the tithe is holy to God? or is it saying that the tithe of the land, whether of the seed or the fruit of the tree is holy to God? Even a blind man will see the difference! You need to wake up from your nightmare and face reality.

Image123: @zikky
It's not limiting it or defining it or establishing it. The focus is that tithes belong to God. In other places, it mentioned of some tithe that belong to widows and levites. Take the scriptures cumulatively not in some regimented isolation nobody demanded of you.

Go back and read that Lev. 27 chapter and tell us where it says that any form of income whether salary, income from prostitution, fraud, robbery is holy to the Lord! The definition is not limiting abi? all tithes belong to the Lord abi?

There is no tithe that belongs to widows. There are other types of tithe, but they all have something in common; the tithe was from the harvest which is holy to the Lord:

The second tithe:

Deuteronomy 14:22 (KJV)
22 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.

You can see it was always about the harvest (Agric produce)

The third tithe:

Deuteronomy 14:28-29 (KJV)
28 At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates:

29 And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the Lord thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.

I believe you can read. The Levite, stranger and fatherless + widow shall come and shall eat. eat what? money? No, Agric produce. It did not say drop money at the gate for the fatherless and widow to pick and spend.

Image123: @zikky
selective reading yet again. paul never gave a reason for not collecting tithes or for collecting tithes. i thought you loved to argue that Paul did not talk about tithes? suddenly you know the reason why Paul did not collect what he did not talk about? i didn't say tithe is any key to wealth, dunno why you're devilishly trying to push that on me. Paul didn't 'burden' people but could have. He had the power to, it was his personal decision as shown here.
1Co 9:11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?
1Co 9:12 If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.

I believe we agreed to work with probabilities here, so what this talk about Paul giving or not giving a reason? and nobody is claiming that you see tithe as key to wealth (even though we know you do ), it is the general perception. Paul did not burden people yes, the question is why not? when he 'knew' (according to our pastors) it was for their prosperity, why did he deny them the opportunity to prosper? that's for you to think about.

Image123: @zikky
On the basis that they were mindful of the words of the holy prophets. Words like Malachi 3 and co.

On the basis of the law? i thought you said you don't tithe based on the law? Act 15 makes nonsense of this assumption anyways.

Image123: @zikky
The gentiles gave more than 10%. they didn't need to be taught giving. Many of them gave their all. The early christians were serious and practical. Today, we have little of their type left, people need to be taught to give. You don't teach alphabets to an O'levels student. Why should they be taught on 10% when they had given their all and were ready to give their eyes? Its unlike many of the wishy washy folks today, who are still asking if it is reading the Bible is necessary or not.

The gentiles gave more than 10% agreed, and you know why? it's because you don't teach giving. It comes as a nature, it is not based on a command to give. The gentiles were true Christians, they gave from their heart. we cannot say the same for people like you. The Apostles taught the gentiles charity, they taught them love and what was the result? they gave their all! Today's pastors teaches giving in percentages, and what is the result? we have 'Christians' (like Image123) using (scientific ) calculator to determine their giving

Two quotes from some previous posts so peeps will understand where we are coming from;

1. You said income is.......

Image123: @zikkyy
Income is profits, proceeds, returns, harvest, revenue, earnings, wages, pay, salary. tithe is a 10% of what you make.

2. You said even the illiterate Israelites knew tithe was simplke 10% of income.....

Image123: @zikkyy
There is no dictionary meaning of tithe or of salvation in the Bible. Even the 'illiterate' Israelites were taken for granted to know the meaning of tithes. it is simply 10% of income.

Your definition of income below.....

Image123: in·come [ín kùm]
(plural in·comes)
noun
1. money received over period: the amount of money received over a period of time either as payment for work, goods, or services, or as profit on capital
2. inflow: an act of coming in or flowing in

Thesaurus: profits, proceeds, returns, revenue, earnings, wages, pay, salary, take-home pay, takings
Microsoft® Encarta® 2009. © 1993-2008 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

No-where in the definition of income above do you find any suggestion that income is also harvest, not even the thesaurus. You also provided a definition of Harvest (below)...

Image123: har·vest [hrvəst]
noun (plural har·vests)
1. quantity of crop: the quantity of a crop that is gathered or ripens during a season

Thesaurus: crop, yield, produce, return, fruitage, ingathering
Microsoft® Encarta® 2009. © 1993-2008 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

....and did you see any reference to income in the definition of harvest? No.

So to validate your position and escape embarassment, you decided to bring up the word 'yield' and show from it that income=harvest, the result was the definition below.....

Image123: yield [yeeld]
verb (past and past participle yield·ed, present participle yield·ing, 3rd person present singular yields)
1. transitive verb produce something: to produce something naturally or as a result of cultivation

Thesaurus: harvest, crop, produce, vintage, profit, earnings, INCOME, revenue, return

Microsoft® Encarta® 2009. © 1993-2008 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

You should be ashamed of yourself. This is how you have been trying to manipulate the scriptures to show tithe is for Christians The word yield can mean a lot of things but never income or harvest at the same time (because income is not harvest as you have shown in your definition). Two different use of the word 'yield' as it relates to the discussion;

a. to make a profit
The combined investment is expected to yield £5,000 in the first year.
yield a profit/return: This figure could yield a return high enough to provide a healthy pension.

Thesaurus entry for this meaning of yield:
Synonyms or related words for this sense of yield
Relating to making profit: commercial, speculative, pay, boom, yield, boom, speculation, profitability, arbitrage, commercialism...

b. to produce fruit, vegetables, or other foods

Thesaurus entry for this meaning of yield
Synonyms or related words for this sense of yield
What plants can do: bear, bloom, blossom, bud, choke, climb, come out, come up, die back, fade...

You can see there is no direct relationship between income and harvest. So if i get you correctly, even the illiterate Israelite needed to first define the world yield, then use a thesaurus to prove that their harvest is income

Image123: i retain that they should be. if you agree to tithes and offerings, fine, very fine. Pastors are maintained with tithes and offerings today. there are different types of offerings. If you feel like giving your own pastor food, crops and animals, go ahead. they'll do with it, what they know is best. your own na to bring the animal. A giver like you, i expect cow, goats, fat chicken and turkey aplenty. It's very god and welcome

You pretend not to understand my post. The animals relate to burnt offerings. If you are saying Christ commands that pastors be maintained exactly the way it was done in the OT, then pastors should be maintained with animals sacrificed as burnt offering to God.

Image123: You well know that i was referring to the first/bolded part of that verse, while Bidam was referring to the second/latter part of the verse. In case, by any sick chance, you didn't really know, well re-read it now with a better understanding. i'm talking to all of you that fell for the zikky bait BTW, zikkyy and fans.

Image, you should know by now that I take time to read posts before responding. Whether you were referring to the first part & Bidam referring to the second part does not change anything. The conflict results from the period you referred to. while image123 is of the view that it was mortals that received tithe at the time the Hebrews letter was written, Bidam view was that the receiver was Christ himself. So who received tithe after the law (according to the Hebrew verse)? Jesus or Levi priests?

^^^^ @Bidam, i hope the above is not your response to my question I want to believe the above was a genuine attempt to answer the question, but you clicked submit in error (just before you could type the response to my question ). Don't worry NL allows you to modify your post, so am still waiting for a modified response

Bidam: Play of words what is the diffrence btw through and to..u go school at allabi u dey force words inside my mouth?

You dey pretend to vex abi? if you want excuse to avoid my question just tell me (you know am your friend ), i go kill the question myself

Bidam: Yeah.. d devil is full of tricks..but ayam wiser than my enemies.

all this just because i offered to fight off those peeps playing tricks on you? na wa ooh