Stats: 3,166,889 members, 7,866,394 topics. Date: Thursday, 20 June 2024 at 04:38 PM |
Nairaland Forum / Zikkyy's Profile / Zikkyy's Posts
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Bidam: the issue has nothing to do with Paul preaching that Jesus was the Christ o! you losing focus here. see trustman's cncern and ya response below: trustman: see ya response.... Bidam: So you can see our discussion is all about you providing scriptures that prove Christians were following and adhering to OT instructions. abi you don't understand the meaning of 'instructions'? |
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3 Bidam: you don run, finally ![]() |
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Bidam: you are right to say offerings in OT was animal sacrifice. So answer the following questions; 1. is the modern day 'offering' also animal sacrifice? 2. Is this modern day 'offering' given based on instructions in OT? My answer to both question is No. If I did not retain the OT offering why retain the OT tithe. And if my 'offering' is not driven by OT offering, why should my tithing activities be based on OT instructions? Again you agreed that the rituals were cancelled after Christ offered himself, is that not enough proof that we don't do things simply because it is contained in the 'inspired' OT. |
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Bidam: Na wa oh. How did I end up conceding defeat to something that was never contested? |
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Bidam: The point is..is smoking scriptural? Why practice what is unscriptural is sin defined as unscriptural activities? Is the use of internet scriptural? Listen to yourself! 1 Like |
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Bidam: Acts 15:21 Acts 15:21 says that Christians were following and adhering to OT instructions (in the synangogues)? which bible you dey read? 1. Who told you gentile Christians were the peeps listening to Moses being preached in the synangogue every sabath? 2. Who told you it was the apostles preaching Moses to congregation every sabath? 3. I believe you are aware they are very likely to be Jews maybe inluding jewish converts very much used to listening to the OT every sabath. They more likely the reason for the decision in Acts 15, the Judaizers that believed gentile converts must be circumcised to be saved. Act 15 says that Moses from generations of old was preached in the synangogue. If it was from generations of old, can they be referring to new converts? |
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Bidam: Are marriages,giving alms,offerings,prayers,fasting,worship not OT activities? You really have lost it. I lost nothing. The arguement that we perform OT activities because it is inspired will not fly. We don't offer animal sacrifice even though it was an 'inspired' OT activity. I think you should take some time to study the post I lifted from the discussion thread. We marriages, giving alms, prayers e.t.c is still practice because they are still relevant, not because they are contained in the OT. That is what you need to show in the case of tithe, so stop this talk bout OT being inspired. |
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Bidam: Holy Spirit. Are you a sinful smoker If it was the holy spirit that told you smoking is sin, then you don't have to preach it as if it is scriptural. |
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Bidam: Scriptures...will you pay your tithe if i show you the scripture ?:p Forget about me paying tithe. Abi you be sales/marketing staff for your church. If you say its scriptures, please provide scriotures that shows Christians were told to adhere to OT instructions in synangogues. |
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Candour: @bidam, I borrowed the above from the tithe discussion thread just in case you missed it. You guys need to do away with this idea that because OT is inspired, you must perform all OT activities. |
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Bidam: and BTW, the OT being inspired does not translate to Christians performing OT activities. |
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Double post |
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Bidam: .......and who told you smoke is sin? |
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Bidam: who told you Christians were following and adhering to OT instructions? Na where you read that one? |
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So image123 says the motive for Christians rendering 10% of their income (a.k.a. tithing) is because they believe that the law of God is truth and should be regarded. I want to say such justification is not held by majority of tithers and such justification is held only by those that want to deceive themselves. God cannot be deceived ![]() END ![]() i believe am also allowed to 'end' my presentation, abi? 7 Likes |
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Image123: Though i did not see the relevance of this bit in the discussion but.. Image123 made reference to God saying that “I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them” – Hebrews 10:16 but again shows that he does not understand what it means for the law to be written on the heart….. What does it mean for the law to be written on the heart? If the law is written on your heart, your obedience is no longer a response to some external or written law; instead you obey the leading of your heart. But we know that the heart has the ability to bring forth all that is evil, see Matthew 15:17-19 …. “Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18 But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander”. The law written on the heart results in a change which can only be achieved when/if we allow Christ to lead our heart. It becomes a nature; i.e. your response to the God’s will or to what is good and acceptable to God becomes a natural reaction and not a reaction to an external command or requirement. Read Apostle Paul saying something similar in Romans 2:14-15….. “Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.” The law written on the heart is not about implementing or obeying the law to tithe, it is about living according to the purpose or reason the commandment was given; which was to ensure sustenance of the Levites (they did not inherit land, the tithe was their inheritance) as well the widows, orphans e.t.c. As Christians we are able to perform similar acts (give to those in need) because we have a heart that loves. We are no longer regulated by a law that says “you shall” or “you must”, now your heart will say “I shall” and the beauty of it is that there is no limit and it is not measurable, it is no longer 10% or 20% because sharing love in percentages for me is not true love. 3 Likes |
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Image123: Image123 says “We cannot or should not dismiss any Word of God with a wave of the hand”. Though am not aware of anybody dismissing the OT with a wave of the hand other than the purpose for which the OT is being used, I will have to agree with image123 on this. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 says that “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work”. It did not say we (as Christians) should implement all that is written (in the O.T). Image123 provided 30 examples to “show the immense importance of the Old Testament scriptures and how rooted the New Testament books are in the Old Testament scriptures” Yes image123 showed that the O.T was important and should be respected (this we already know), but he did not show how this teaches us to implement every word in the O.T and how this teaches or prove that we should implement all that is written (i.e. tithe), which I believe is the ’koko’ of the discussion. We need to be able to link what is written to what we do. 1 Like |
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Image123: Image123 says God’s law is the truth, no problem with that. The question I want to ask is this; what is the truth regarding the tithe? 1. Is it true that God will not rebuke the devourer (for Christians that don’t tithe)? 2. Is it truth that the tithe must be go to the Church you worship (knowing that knowing that Abraham did not pay tithe in a temple or knowing that there was no temple or priest to receive Jacob’s tithe), 3. Is it true that God’s law regarding tithe encompasses the following; the tithing of pocket money, the tithing of gifts, the tithing of income from prostitution, robbery, fraud money ritual e.t.c if the answer is no, then what is the truth regarding what is tithe-able and what is not tithe-able. I am yet to hear a sermon that teaches tithe other than it is 10%. 1 Like |
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DrummaBoy: Well, if this makes you happy I want to respond to the presentation: R2 Our tithing is in the belief that the law of God is truth and should be regarded I think Image123 started very well when he said….”What is our foundation for obedience? Actions are motivated in many ways, actions have different reasons. i've seen people pray because they were forced to. i've also seen people fast so that something evil will happen to another. i've seen people read the word of God to find holes and contradictions. i believe in the three actions above; prayer, fasting and reading the word of God. On the other hand, i disagree with the three motives or reasons above. These three scenarios show that the ACTION should not be condemned for (because of) the reason/motive of the actor. This is a treatment often meted out on the TITHE. Different people have their reasons for doing things. We do not all have the same reasons for salvation or believing God. i think the more important thing is that we are saved and believe God.” This part I agree with. What image123 forgot to tell us was the motive for his actions (tithing). I will explain……. .....First I want to say am very happy to read image confirm that tithe is part of the law, and it is not an eternal principle ![]() Image123: Image123 talked about motive and action, he stated that motive can be wrong (i.e. contrary to God’s will or what is considered acceptable to God), but wrong motive does not imply the action itself is wrong, this I agree with. But what is the motive for tithing? He says it’s because “God's Word is to be regarded, and that ALL of God's Word is inspired by God and profitable “. What is/are the profits to be derived from tithing your income? If we ignore the motive which is the basis for every action/inaction then the action is meaningless. Can the motive for an action be simply because you do not disregard the law? Is that not saying the person does not understand what he/she is doing? Why am I not disregarding the law that says “thou shall not kill”? is it because I see it as something inspired by God and profitable? Such motive makes no sense. There can only be two genuine reasons or motive, the first is that I believe killing will earn me God’s wrath along with the punishment that goes with it (this justification is for lovers of the law). The second possible motive would be that I consider the act of killing a morally repugnant behavior (one that is inconsistent or incompatible with my new nature in Christ). The law must have a purpose otherwise it is of no relevance or use to the issuer or the people the law is meant to regulate. Image123 tells us the “The law of God is not with the purpose of saving us or justifying us or making us become righteous! It is basically not useful for that purpose”. So what is the purpose of the law? Image123 says one use of the law is “To examine yourself, to see your state”. No issues if you want use the law for such purpose. If the law serve such purpose, can we say the action of tithing (which image has agreed is God’s law and is truth) is for the purpose of examining ourselves, to see our state? Maybe there is no reason, the tither is on auto pilot mode (running programs designed and executed by the pastor). 6 Likes |
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DrummaBoy: Majority of the peeps don't need understanding, they need deliverance. Or maybe we wait for the Nigerian economy to improve. Dat na one reason some peeps are tithing recklessly. |
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shdemidemi: Anti-tithers don chase all the tithers away from here o (with facts). tithers are not so good when it comes to exercising the brain (there are exceptions sha), They are comfortable with brief statements like - "tithe works for me" or "the bible says we should tithe" (it actually the pastor that gave the instruction to tithe). |
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DrummaBoy: what's the reward? e.g. 1st prize - 2014 Range Rover sports, 2nd prize - all expense paid vacation to hawaii, 3rd prizec - all expense paid pilgrimage to Jerusalem 4th prize all expense paid pilgrimage to cannan land, Ota. 5th prize - time out with pastor adeboye. Things like these would be enough incentive for debate. Even tithers go participate very well. |
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Bidam: na wa for you o! Is this how you see my posts? My post are usually made in good faith o! No intention to ridicule anybody at all! .............okay, I admit it does happen (on very rare occasions sha) and joagbaje is usually the benefciary, not you. The time i did that to you was when i called you copy and paste master ![]() ![]() |
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Bidam: my 'offering' does not go to God as a sweet smelling sacrifice like your tithe. |
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Bidam: But you get time for tithe thread ode! lol! @bolded ![]() ![]() |
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Bidam: I want to believe this bit was meant for frosbel. Me and you no discuss enough for this thread to warrant this response. Abi na kolo dey start small small like this? ![]() |
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Bidam: I thought you guys imitating Abraham? God was not the one that instituted that one na. The only tithing practice instituted by God is that practiced by Jews under the mosaic law. Bidam: are you burning ya tithe? |
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Bidam: e be like you no dey happy say I no get ya time |
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Pastor Kun: The Pastor Oseni must have been drunk when he made that statement. He should first repent from the tithe fraud perpetuated in his church before he thinks of ridding Lagos of criminals. lol! I want to agree with the drunk bit ![]() ![]() 12 Likes |
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shdemidemi: if you resemble ya papa and ya papa resemble God, what's the difference? 1 Like |
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Ukuts gp: that guy with tithe self. He is twisting the scripture now to support his tithe doctrine. ha him way. the man must wak na ![]() |
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